Everyday Systems

oolala53

Jonas, I know those symptoms. Like I's scoring a drug. I'm guessing on that since I've limited myself to the legal grocery store ones.

oolala53

Yes, I'm a thinker, although I'm kind of on the cusp of a couple of those areas. And on the slight side of introversion, although I'm not the quiet one in the corner. I've probably written a book between my posts here and on Spark, though it's rather repetitive. I think it's really satisfied some pa...

oolala53

I venture it's not seeping in. It was always there and now it's uncovered. Surprise! I'd also venture this is ONE of the reasons people fail at long term loss/maintenance. They don't exactly know what hit them, and aren't really prepared to see that it wasn't just the weight. They have to face that ...

oolala53

Good plan preparing for your test. I'm puzzled why you didn't bring up depression, telling him of your lethargy. A counselor cannot give you medication, and if you have a serotonin imbalance, it can boost the effectiveness of the talk therapy. At least you're getting the word on you thyroid. It's go...

oolala53

I'd venture that this is exactly the issue. I wouldn't call it lazy, or at least I hope not because this is my issue, too. But something is off, and grappling with that discontent is key. Is it about inner action or outer action? Or a combination? ONe thing is for sure: eating too much isn't going t...

oolala53

I ate very light yesterday because I didn't really have much hunger (but I still wanted to eat!). It was kind of hard, but I had done it the other way, eating more because I actually felt like eating more even though I wasn't hungry, and hadn't been happy with that. I had to push to give myself the ...

oolala53

Be brave and tell the doc! S/he wants to know. I just listened to an online teleclass by a fantastic woman named Barbara Sher, a book of whose I read decades ago. Her specialty is coaching people to get going on important projects to them. She is so down-to-earth! She was talking to someone who was ...

oolala53

I believe that anxiety or other stuff will definitely come up for many people when they aren't eating. I think it's one of the major reasons people give up. They may not even realize what's going on. It's pretty much a recognized phenomenom in eating disorder work.

oolala53

That's pretty advanced insight, jw. I think anxiety is thinking down deep that there is something that could should be done at that moment, but not knowing what it is or not being willing to do it. Learning to accept that whatever I'm doing now is probably right and certainly all I can expect at the...

oolala53

auto, if it's any consolation, habit studies show that monitoring any behavior tends to have it move toward the direction of intention, so just looking at your expenses may influence you enough to reduce spending, if that's your intention, even without establishing a budget. But you'll be free to dr...

oolala53

I've been wondering what to do with that can of coconut milk I have, but not enough to go look for recipes. Score!

oolala53

I've found that no matter where the origin of the feeling is, the remedy is rooted in today. Kind of like no matter what the reason is that I might want to eat between meals on N days, the remedy is the same. Accept the urge and wait anyway. The urge is usually quite tolerable. Anxiety for other rea...

oolala53

I don't think trying to figure out why you won't let yourself feel good is the best tactic. Better just to get very clear that to feel good, you have to wait longer to eat and/or eat a lot less when you do eat. Maybe say to yourself, "I may feel like eating now, but I know I'll feel even better if I...

oolala53

Your breakfast sounds similar to breakfast in Iran, where I used to live. They had bread (their breads were all different kinds of flat breads), feta cheese, tomatoes and even cucumber. And tea. Every day! I can't even remember now if I did the same or not. Be sure to congratulate yourself for endin...

oolala53

I won't quit writing to ya- just not about S days for now. Try to take the attention away from them. What else could your S days be about besides whether you eat too much on them or not? What would be more interesting than that?

oolala53

I wouldn't call it a rave.

If we lose you because you've moved on to thinking about other things, at least come back after a few months and tell us what became more compelling!

oolala53

I did live in Iran. The golden crust is called tahdig, which means literally bottom of the pan. The cook parboils the rice, drains it, and puts it back in a pot to steam for 20 minutes to whenever. At the beginning of the steaming, she pours oil into one or two places in the rice, not mixing it in. ...

oolala53

Naomi Wolf years ago wrote a feminist work called The Beauty Myth in which she asserted that women had been diverted from being able to examine their real needs and rights to an obsessive concern with trying to meet a beauty standard that could never have been as generalized without the advent of th...

oolala53

Anoulie, I have a feeling the healing is happening, and I say that trying not to sound too airy fairy. It can be very hard to see, just like we can't really see what is going on under a scab. I say that as someone very "guilty" of being very entwined in this board and a related one, but I don't clai...

oolala53

I remember that general metaphor! maybe I'll actually use it this year.

oolala53

I keep Indian sauces in the cupboard ALL the time! 10-minute dinner, I'm telling you. I hope this is not to risque but in Iran, the eggplants are not the squat fat ones we have here, but a little shorter than most I see and slimmer. Eggplant is definitely a euphemism such that an Iranian might say, ...

oolala53

I meant when you said you could kind of binge eat while he was asleep. Or are you doing a lot of your overeating on S days at meals? I'll stop making suggestions until you've put in another couple of months with mostly N day compliance. No use planning for reductions now when they may happen spontan...

oolala53

I make some things from scratch, but I still gots my cans and frozen things. I consider it a treat to have refried beans from a can. (99cents) (Did make an Iranian dish last week that has eggplant and yellow split peas as the base. Pretty cheap! I eat it any time of day. Just had almost the last of ...

oolala53

Maybe that's a reason NOT to exercise "in the Spartan manner."

oolala53

Remember we don't control what occurs to us. Thoughts arise, often when we don't want THAT thought. I think it's good to have several tools for that. My newest one is just not taking it seriously. In this case, aging can be an advantage! I've finally seen that so much of the time, these thoughts don...

oolala53

Speaking of lofty/hufalutin' thinking, I started to post this on the main board on the food journals thread, but changed my mind. The original poster had already decided that they were a bad idea for her for now, so why do I have to keep the question going? But for my own purposes, I submit: I guess...

oolala53

Anoulie, it sounds like you'd be better off just going back to your previous lifestyle before bad old America. If you have to drop us to heal yourself, by all means, do it! But it also sounds like you'll benefit from talking to someone else about your tendency (not uncommon and even glorified some p...

oolala53

If I may be so bold... Here is my post to Anoulie: Okay, I feel better, except for one thing. I don't think you're able to see the big picture, and I hope you can trust Aunt Oolala that 10 pounds is not a big deal. I know it feels like a good reason to panic and you could come up with all kinds of w...

oolala53

Okay, I feel better, except for one thing. I don't think you're able to see the big picture, and I hope you can trust Aunt Oolala that 10 pounds is not a big deal. I know it feels like a good reason to panic and you could come up with all kinds of what you think are legitimate fears. All of us old l...

oolala53

I've never been able to handle not paying my whole balance off on my credit cards. You'd see what an exciting life I lead. Gasoline. Groceries. Gasoline. Groceries. Copy of No S from Amazon. Groceries. UC Santa Cruz, my alma mater, gets a cut of my Visa Purchases. I've always been the kind of person...

oolala53

We're fringe scholars here. Just couldn't quite convince ourselves it was worth it to get the Ph.D.

oolala53

If he can buy candy, he can buy flowers, a card, a fridge magnet...start hinting, girl! I'd bet there are things YOU think he can do even if he is disabled. Not necessarily moving around things. That's a drag not getting to hang out with the new baby. That's what happens when you're a big wig. Consi...

oolala53

Gawd, yes, the hairsplitting! How many angels on the head of a pin! Put the food on a plate and eat it, for pity's sake! On my other board, because of how it's set up, links to other members' blogs scroll my automatically. One woman who is as much of a zealot of paleo type, 70% fat diet as I am of N...

oolala53

I've admitted other places that I've been diagnosed for depression, was on meds for it for a few years -before No s-, and now take meds for anxiety (but not when I'm on break from work. My doctor doesn't like that, but I do it anyway.) My first two years on No S were some of the most stressful of my...

oolala53

Anoulie, please be careful. That question "what am I doing to my body" and comparing yourself to others is classic eating disorder talk. You are talking like you're obese! you're not, right? (and even obese people have to find a way not to panic about their bodies) Denigrating your body is almost a ...

oolala53

I was very influenced by Aravanel back when! I thought at first that I was a G-type, but later I realized that I have the shoulders at least of a T-type. It is partly what has kept me from ever seriously going vegetarian, though I appreciate it and actually wish it came a little more naturally to me...

oolala53

I'm browsing testimonials in the new year. I have one I have yet to update, but I missed yours when you first posted it. congrats!

I assume the holidays went decently. So doable on No S!

oolala53

Hooboy, even I didn't buy the book. I got it from the library!

oolala53

Lots of things "work" to take weight off- if people continue to do them. The question to me is not whether it helps people lose but is it likely they'll be doing it two years later? Just about all traditional diets take weight off people; they just don't teach them to make it a habit of eating less ...

oolala53

Not terrible at all, if you're in the know. It just scares me a little to see how much of our lives are entwined in this now. And a lot of it I wouldn't have learned about if I hadn't become a teacher in middle age, though I would have paid a price. I never had the money to invest in it all back the...

oolala53

On Spark, there is a darling young woman who says she has asked her husband countless times not to bring certain foods home, and he keeps doing it. It makes me feel bad for her just thinking about it because she feels so compelled to eat them, and isn't getting a chance to get some distance from the...

oolala53

Agreed! Never say never, but I can't really envision what would move me to do it. More weight loss is just not important enough to me, and wasn't when I started No S.

oolala53

Wow, I am getting old. I could not have written that sentence!

oolala53

On a (kind of) side note, I think I made a reference to a book I was reading recently that was helping me with some of my work issues and someone asked me the name of it. I can't find the question or my answer if I made one, so I'll just tell anyone who's interested that the book is called The Happi...

oolala53

Statistically speaking, humans are not naturally positive thinkers, so don't beat yourself up for what arises spontaneously in your mind. Any good psychologist who has studied such things will admit that. There is nothing wrong with anyone for having some anxiety. It doesn't sound like it rules you ...

oolala53

auto, our posts crossed, too. Regarding having some materials for the group, I know that's one of the reasons I've been hanging back. I do think it will be necessary to have some extra guidelines. I've actually been trying to come up with a list of statements similar to the list that is always read ...

oolala53

So kind! I feel I need some credibility before I try to find someone to work with. I'm loosely modeling myself on Geneen Roth's beginnings. I don't know all the details of how she started- she may have changed $ from the very beginning. But I do know in the beginning she had a weekly support group i...

oolala53

jw, our posts must have crossed in cyberspace. I think you'll see (if you are even interested at looking at my previous too-copious posts) that I have often used what I called vitality as the motivator for moderate eating. And alternatively, I've advocated using the French reason for eating: good ol...

oolala53

I'm VERY glad for the discussion! I brought it up because Reinhard does say in his book that shame IS a possible good motivator. Because I'm considering starting a local real-time support group for No S, I'm trying to figure out how to help counteract that, as I can't promote the program and not hav...

oolala53

Food journaling CAN help people automatically enlist their willpower more automatically, but it isn't a guarantee. I think what is also even more important is to save extra measures for later. People shouldn't use them until they're sure what they're doing isn't working. Reinhard terms it from the c...

oolala53

Oooo! I've been waiting for the good news! Warmest wishes to your family. Wow, I am so spoiled living in SoCal. I thought a blizzard would stop everything (not babies coming, but from driving home!), but I guess it has to be pretty severe. It's amazing that humans have figured out ways around these ...

oolala53

Although men can have their self-judgment with food and their bodies, I think it's less likely. Researchers have found that men often underestimate how heavy they are and definitely usually have lower weight goal expectations. I mean, a guy can say, yeah, I eat like a pig, and it hardly really means...

oolala53

auto, I realized it took me years even before No S to see that I enjoyed "healthy" meals (good fats, decent fiber, protein, starch, freggies- not full of trans fats, salt, and refined flour) just about as much if not more as a meal of lasagna, garlic bread, and brownies- an old standard. I worried t...

oolala53

Good distinction.

oolala53

I'm perusing testimonials and just saw this. How has your return to No S been? I'm impressed that your gain didn't send you off to some diet. I guess you knew better. I'm also glad to see that No S helped you even though you were not close to being overweight when you started. (In the U.S, you would...

oolala53

I don't know how I missed this, but I'm catching up now. I'm going to put in a link to this on my Sparkpeople team. Get ready to be famous! And thank you for living to tell and telling! BTW, I know we shouldn't be comparing, but you weigh less than 80% of the U.S. women at your same age and height. ...

oolala53

I'm browsing, and saw this. Congrats and Happy New Year!

oolala53

Happy New Year, Nicest! Congrats on basically maintaining your weight, even through a second teething. You're still beating the odds.

oolala53

I think the fact that you haven't mindlessly snacked for so long increases your ability to judge that you weren't just kidding yourself in this recent situation of eating 4 meals. You know what it is to be legitimately hungry, and you were. Obviously, a nice cup of tea wasn't going to cut it! I gues...

oolala53

Welcome back!

It's surprising how few days it takes of either kind of eating to make me feel I've been doing it for a long time. If I eat S's for several days in a row for whatever reason, N days feel like they were so long ago! And a few days of N days can bring that sane feeling back, too.

oolala53

I envy you, jw. I know this happens for some people on No S, but it hasn't for me. However, No S is still the best thing that ever happened to me in terms of eating.

oolala53

I called it "punctuating" my day with eating. A period here, semi:colon there, exclamation point.. but mostly just comma, comma, comma. Eat, do x, eat, do y, eat...

Honestly, it can still be hard to fill up the time without eating, but it's worth the wait.

oolala53

I thought you were saying they probably SHOULDN'T journal, if it was going to just make them feel more ashamed. It just doesn't fit my image of how I want to live my life. If it means I weigh more, so be it. Besides, I can always change my mind. I just know that when I was the thinnest of my adult l...

oolala53

I think you've got a point. People can have different reactions to the scale, so food records can be the same. I do my best, but I have never recorded what I've eaten during a binge. Perhaps that has delayed my recovery, but we'll never know now. I do see that trying to help someone keep records and...

oolala53

What a difference a year makes! You left a comment on automated eating's thread about how you had dropped No S after a few months and gaining weight, but that you see its wisdom now. Would it be all right with you if I send it to the members of the No S team on Sparkpeople? It's a small team, and we...

oolala53

I loved reading Born to Run. On the couch. I mean sitting on the couch. No running on the couch in this house, nor much outside it. Gotta get my dance fitness tapes out. Hey, this is giving me an idea. How come there aren't dance-athons for fitness? Oh I guess because it's too hard to determine who ...

oolala53

I'm very torn about the value of shame in adopting moderate eating. Is it possible to feel shame without its signifying a damaging loss in self-respect? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130724200414.htm I feel I used shame and "weightism" against myself for years without its prompting me...

oolala53

Deb, that is awesome about your new grandson coming! Even though it's an S day and you can have whatever you want, I bet you will be full from your dinner and won't need any food while you're at the hospital. If you're like me, you can often mix up excitement with the desire to eat. But in the end, ...

oolala53

You did disconcertingly well, auto! Especially about the eye rolling. I thought I was hiding it better. Busted! :oops: But as I said on another thread, being able to use inexpensive apps nowadays on smartphones takes away some of the inconvenience. Who knows what might happen if I ever give up my fl...

oolala53

That is a great idea!

I still lose a flip phone, but for smart phones, it sounds like there are some easy-to-use apps. Convenience might make a convert of me, but so far, so good.

oolala53

Those warrior names make me want to call one the "600 workout," remembering where their workouts took them-into many valleys of death. Leave it to Reinhard to promote a workout of unglamorous but practical daily toilers, the salt of the earth.

oolala53

I'm so glad for you that you never got ruined by those short-term diets. I know I did. It's also refreshing to have someone see that they are not the answer for the long term. Now you can ride this wave all the way to shore. I came to No S at age 56, and am so glad I won't be spending my last decade...

oolala53

Welcome home.

oolala53

No, I don't and haven't for all my four years here. But I have rather routine meals -similar portions of protein, starches, fats and freggies, and I tend to stick to my three meals a day, so that does the counting for me. That and trying to eat so that I'm actually hungry for my next meal. Millions ...

oolala53

I couldn't really determine what the success rate is for No S. I wish I could say it looks more successful, but it would take a lot more of a perusal than I'd be able to give it. The hard truth is that reducing eating permanently is very hard to pull off in general. The odds are against it just abou...

oolala53

You don't have to point this out to him, but no matter what diet book idea anyone touts to you, you can rest assured that none has ever been shown to have a better than 5-10% success rate over five years than any other. And they certainly can't compete with the slimness ratings of Italy and France, ...

oolala53

You didn't ask about this, but IF I have a smoothie, and I rarely do because I like chewing, I pour the contents in a bowl and eat it with a spoon. No matter how hard I try to drink a smoothie slowly (I like to take at least 20 minutes for a meal, but even eating it with a spoon is over within 15 mi...

oolala53

I went with a male friend to see "Invictus," the film about Nelson Mandela's life after he was released from prison and when he inspired the soccer team there to win the World's Cup, I believe. I balled almost the whole last half of the movie. My friend: nothin' But we also went to see The Blind Sid...

oolala53

Happy New Year, Anoulie!

oolala53

I don't feel that I can control whether or not there are SOB's in my life.

oolala53

I think "NoSOB" could be misinterpreted...

oolala53

I meant to give kudos to you for explaining your situation to your husband and to your husband for getting it so quickly! Don't be discouraged if he ends up losing weight on his own regime. Men statistically have an easier time losing weight for all kinds of reasons. I think one of them is that they...

oolala53

I think posting here does as much for me as it does for others. This forum and Sparkpeople (where I write more about reducing bingeing rather than No S, though I have a "team" there- 5 people, I think) have allowed me to keep from eating at the wrong times and indulge this passion/obsession. And it'...

oolala53

Congratulations, Sinnie! What wonderful news.

BTW, I pretty much stole my message to you from Reinhard.

oolala53

I know there are a few people who don't like salad on the dinner plate, and they've made it work to separate it.

oolala53

"The real Santa was moderation." Brilliant. I think once you get over the hump, and there might be one, you might actually like the effect of non-pyramid sized plates.

oolala53

Diets being too restrictive is the result of people looking for immediate weight loss rather than looking for how to NEED less food on a consistent basis. That isn't done by forcing people to eat very little food. People can try to rush things on No S, too. Watching for weight loss can mess with peo...

oolala53

So enterprising! I'm envious.

oolala53

I want to say I do understand the allure for those who've been faithful to No S but not had the results they would like. I think it's much more preferable to calorie limits, swearing off foods, or the versions of it offered by most of the diet industry. But the theory of it being easy just wasn't tr...

oolala53

You may want to give yourself even more than three weeks...you'll get there! Doing well.

oolala53

Kathryn pulled things together in a very accessible way, but her ideas aren't new. I wrote a long post about all my influences that led me to a lot of similar conclusions, but it felt too long and too irrelevant, really. If she's working for you, what difference does it make? I was impressed because...

oolala53

On Sparkpeople teams, I often tell people that stress, boredom, emotions, etc. don't make us eat (as so many people insist); they make us WANT to eat. That's not the same thing. We don't have to eat just because we want to! We can have all the desires, emotions, stress, etc. and still not eat. I thi...

oolala53

My quote feature doesn't work, so I have to use regular script. "Truly I think it is because I made up my mind that during the week straight vanilla is the only way I can go about this. I think my past failures has a lot to do with this kind of thinking as well. My past failures is my motivation. As...

oolala53

Deb, I gently suggest that you try to think of mindless eating as just a habit rather than a terrible one. That gives it too much importance. It's just a habit. I know you keep wishing that it would just go away on its own, but most habits don't. It's okay if you have to institute some way to limit ...

oolala53

I hope you didn't feel you had to defend yourself regarding "dessert." It makes perfect sense to me! It's a very civil distinction. ) :D But I'm still curious. Was it bad to be SO hungry at lunch? It sounds good to me these days. I don't experience that pattern. I haven't been willing to go beyond 7...

oolala53

I find it almost impossible to really savor my food unless I chew well, but I was doing that at my meals even when I was also bingeing. I did not savor when I binged! But the habit of chewing well I think has served me well with No S.

oolala53

How did you distinguish what was lunch (5 kinds of cookies) from dessert (small ice cream shake)?

Sounds like many S days I had early on. Actually, it's rather tame by comparison.

I never have been able to record what I eat on S days. I guess I can't handle the truth!

oolala53

Possible health gains or losses can be used to defend some pretty outrageous lifestyles. I'm not convinced there are worthy health benefits to going much outside No S, with the inevitable exceptions. And weighing less may not add anything to the mix. Neither is my ultimate goal. IF is on the back bu...

oolala53

This says it posted on sunday, 12/29. No fails on Sundays! and I, too, would not call honey in your tea nor Nutella fails. I use all kinds of sweeteners in my coffee and jam on toast, about a tablespoon, sometimes.

oolala53

Yeah, games with an 11-year-old hardly seems NWS-day worthy.

I started No S officially on Jan.1, 2009. I didn't take an NWS day for three months. Just didn't seem worth it! But my S days were pretty wild.

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