Everyday Systems

oolala53

You are right. Don't do it! I know you probably feel you can't do this, but I finally gave up baking sweets. Oh, that was a tough decision to make. For the longest time (about 2 years on No S), I could not stand the thought of giving up the pleasure of the activity on S days, and didn't like the ide...

oolala53

Feel like my cold is coming back. I'd stay home tomorrow but I took over the presentation of some materials in one class and my central office supervisor is making the rounds tomorrow, or I'd be calling in sock. I'm having a root canal in the afternoon and the check engine light has come on in my ca...

oolala53

Thank you for posting this. I like having a variety of these combinations in my pocket.

oolala53

Thanks, ae. There probably is a connection, though I've been trying to handle my work anger for 17 years. Come to think of it, though, I had been doing a bit more of just sitting down and refusing to teach while I boiled inside recently, rather than yelling. And because I always have another teacher...

oolala53

No S almost begs for cheerleaders because it itself is so subtle in comparison with the competition.

oolala53

I keep my N days. I go to town on the wonderful savory foods available at the parties and most on weekdays are at appropriate times. I still save sweets for weekends except for Christmas Eve and Day. I'm never sorry for what I didn't eat.

oolala53

Sweet! It seems especially important that you see that you have eaten similarly with good results before when pleasure played a bigger role. Those slim French people are very big on pleasure and looking forward to meals. They don't equate pleasure with eating more, but with really enjoying what they...

oolala53

Wirth, hang in there. I'm curious to know what you think your major overeating issues were before No S. Was it permasnacking? Having sweets with too many meals or in too large of portions? Having more food at meals after already being full or eating so fast that you took in more than you needed and ...

oolala53

Thanks for the love! I've said before when I accepted that I just wasn't often going to get what I wanted in the moment- that I didn't have to be able to solve the problem at hand, such as frustration with work or lack of companionship- it became much less of a reason to eat, and less important to p...

oolala53

Francophile, Reinhard says to do what we feel we need to do on days we feel sick, so your honey tea is fine. Unless you are just kidding yourself about why you drink it, consider yourself compliant

oolala53

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but are you sure you're were really hungry in the morning? When I first started, and for years before that, I found that I often had the desire to eat within the first three hours after a meal, but I discovered that that wasn't actually hunger. I called it hunger, bu...

oolala53

You go, girl.

oolala53

I completely agree and believe I am proof of it. I have eaten many foods in moderation that I used to think I could not control and which many others insist must be abstained from in order to be in control. There is a big difference between feeling out of control and actually being out of control.

oolala53

Automatedeating, just put the burger and fries on a plate, eat, and wait for the next meal.

oolala53

Someone posted an excerpt from a post of Reinhard's on beverages between meals on another thread questioning diet sodas. He doesn't list any hot chocolate, and he does recommend black coffee, but in part of it, he says go easy on the cream and sugar in coffee, so they aren't forbidden. For nearly 4 ...

oolala53

eschano, tx for finding that excerpt. It made me gulp a little when I scanned it first and saw the "black" with coffee, but in the paragraph above, it said go easy on the sugar and cream. Whew. I've tried at times to drink coffee black but I'd just as soon skip it as drink it that way. And I loves m...

oolala53

Oh, my, so long since I posted. Well, the workshop was okay. It wasn't as difficult as I thought, but it also hasn't had much of an impact. I haven't even looked at the materials and exercises I did there again. Isn't this always the problem with workshops? They're like diets. A lot of excitement at...

oolala53

Not sure what you meant by you decided "not to do the plate idea," but glad to hear that you enjoyed a dinner and breakfast. Meals are so much more satisfying that just picking at food randomly, but it takes a lot of experiences to really sink in.

oolala53

Oh, I remember how imprisoned I felt when in may late 30's, I went on a diet and workout regime that took me down to 19% fat and around 10 lbs. less than I weigh now. At first, I felt okay, but after awhile, I felt fearful of eating anything I didn't prepare myself. And my knees hurt, and, etc. It t...

oolala53

Yes. You may not need them after awhile, but if you enjoy them and don't believe they are a health risk, drink away. Just to let you know, some members here feel that having artificially sweetened drinks leads them to eating more sweets or staying more attached to sweets on S days, but that, too, is...

oolala53

Weighing myself in the past never helped me "catch" it, but I weighed for years anyway. If it does you, without sending you into a panic, go ahead. In the beginning, I continued to weigh every day and average it once a week. Now I weigh that same way for a week at a time, but only at the change of e...

oolala53

I've used it often, and likely will again this winter. Just note if it seems to lead to wanting more anything. If it did, I'd drop it.

oolala53

They are okay on any days.

oolala53

I had a perfect three months, though wild S days, then wobbled a lot for months, then... Well, it's nearly 4 years later. I wailed about wild S days for over two years. Many, many green N days helped keep me sane. I've lost each year. If I were retired, I could imagine eating only two meals a day, m...

oolala53

Right now, I have an extra copy on a shelf at the ready. It's been awhile since anyone has seemed ready for that step, but I like having one in reserve.

oolala53

Brad Pilon, a body builder and proponent of intermittent fasting, routinely does workouts lifting quite heavy weights even on days he fasts. He scoffs at the idea that a person should be eating in order to work out or recover from working out. Personal trainers are in the business of believing and g...

oolala53

idon'tknow, I humbly suggest you buy the paper version, get the PDF version for free, and give the paper version away when people ask you why enjoy your food so much and look so good.

oolala53

With all due respect, it seems to me you are turning No S into a diet, and the predictable pendulum swing is happening. You would be less likely to be eating multiple portions of pasta if you weren't being so restrictive in your meals the rest of the time, I'd guess. If you don't need to lose weight...

oolala53

If you are going to keep going to these meetings and they are going to keep featuring eating, I think you will have to find a way to avoid the food or make it a meal. You don't want to take an S day if they happen every week. I don't say it will be easy. There are some events at which people don't r...

oolala53

I doubt you gain weight any more easily. I'd bet you always gained in the same way when you overate, but you're more sensitive to overeating now. And eating too much is likely to feel as if you're heavier, even if you may not be. Can you predict at all when you're going to feel overfull? I believe i...

oolala53

Out of curiosity, what's the difference between the two scales? And do you have a habitcal for that habit?

oolala53

How much and how fast you lose will depend on how much you've actually been overeating. I was a binger and continued to binge (or close to it) on many S days for two years, but since that was still less than I had been eating, I lost weight. You'll find if you're honest that after several months tha...

oolala53

Try not to be paying so much attention to your weight now. Think of it more like learning to play the piano. You're not going to get much satisfaction until you've had a lot more practice. Getting on the scale is a bit like playing for a recital. Be honest with yourself about "practicing," and thing...

oolala53

Sorry, but the studies are a drop in the bucket compared with the practice of most slim cultures in the world. They don't weigh, but they also prize not overeating, and are rather consistent in their meal sizes. However, if you're going to weigh, and not freak out about it, I vote for every day and ...

oolala53

Sounds good. What were you eating when you weighed under 130? Could you imagine eating like that again soon? Probably not. It's likely you're doing the right thing for yourself.

And you never know what will happen after a longer period of time.

oolala53

Ditto.

oolala53

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but what really is the problem with it taking a year to lose the weight? Why is it acceptable to try some crazy program to lose it faster if you're not going to be able to keep it off? What is so terrible about being 20 lbs. overweight? I think this stems...

oolala53

Just read the transcript. Baillor certainly was gracious. I was waiting for you to say that exercise specialists can get all caught up in the best protocol to build muscle or burn fat, but that that's not the point. It may seem like a person is being more efficient with the "perfect" workout, but it...

oolala53

I haven't listened to or read the interview yet, but I totally agree about the spinach issue. I'm assuming he gave the impression that if you allow free rein on certain foods, you can't go wrong, but as you say, no one is having a problem bingeing on spinach. And "feeding" that all-too-frequent urge...

oolala53

If at first... You will get through the bumps. Remember that millions and millions of thin people go many hours without eating with no ill effects. The problems are the exceptions. You are likely not an exception. Keep telling yourself it's often just a matter of a few hours, and you can have bevera...

oolala53

Glad you stuck with it to experience the delights. If health is your real goal, and not necessarily a cosmetic change, you should regard yourself a success. It's very likely you are eating a greater ratio of quality foods, and if you are exercising regularly, you have the real key down. Consistent m...

oolala53

More importantly, is he the healthiest human alive? :roll: Who's to say? Sounds like a dang expensive experiment. I wonder if he could have bankrolled it without his previous success. It's hard to imagine that for most people, all that effort will do much more good than consistent moderation in food...

oolala53

I assume you also feel the meals on those smaller plates are satisfying. The more solid your habits are before the holidays, and the more you feel committed to them right through to the end of December without feeling that you're making a terrible sacrifice, the better you'll feel on Jan. 1, even if...

oolala53

I agree about making the testimonial anyway. You've still beat the odds incredibly and people need to know that partial success is success, too. Very few obesity specialists tell their patients they have to achieve a normal BMI because they see such improvement from modest changes. You are already a...

oolala53

This is why strict dieting doesn't work very often. People try to force themselves to be satisfied with imposed foods and limits with no real room for much relief if it seems too difficult. With No S, if you're honest, you learn over time what really satisfies.

oolala53

Stick with what you feel you can do permanently. And please think about what effect it will have on your children to see Mom eat so differently from the rest of the family. Resolve to eat moderately and sanely so they will, too. Moms deserve to enjoy a variety of foods...in moderation.

oolala53

On N days, I'd be more likely to have oatmeal, other grains, whole grain bread with nut butters, or plain yogurt with fruit than muffins or banana bread. I actually rarely eat them, as I like the total experience of other foods better. But I also might have lunch/dinner leftovers or even soup, if I ...

oolala53

Try to not expect things to happen fast. You can't predict weight loss on No S. Try not to micromanage. No S works by helping to reduce the appetite. No one can tell how much and how fast yours changes. I've been around for nearly 4 years. I can't tell you how many people have left because they felt...

oolala53

Welcome back! Please do yourself that favor of giving it a real go-- more than a few weeks. I hope you will look at your change in attitude towards food, especially in really savoring it, as an important part of the pleasing results to start. Be very careful about looking for weight loss as the nece...

oolala53

That's a loss of about 22%. You ARE doing this.

It may be lifelong, but I'm not sure it's always a struggle. It's just...different. Rationally aware rather than rabidly vigilant. And a lot more delight.

oolala53

Naps are excellent diversions and probably what are needed anyway. Good move.

oolala53

For me, hunger for 60-120 minutes before each meal is a better measure. And it can take quite a few hours to get to that point, especially on S days.

oolala53

Living without fast food or some convenience food just isn't worth it to me yet. Maybe it will be some day.

oolala53

The studies are based on small groups in comparison with the millions of people in slim cultures who don't even know what they weigh. In slim cultures, they do know what it means to have habits of savoring meals that are relatively routine in size and macronutrient makeup. They usually have one quit...

oolala53

Finally, someone catches on, though I think the focus on weight itself is still skewing things. Meal-based unrushed eating and relatively routine meal make-up serve slim cultures very well without using a scale. Judith Beck had two skills she recommended in her first weight loss book before people s...

oolala53

veggiegirl, out of curiosity, are you hungry at 3 and 6? I would have to eat just a few bites at noon and 3 if I wanted to be hungry at 3 and at dinner.

oolala53

When you are making new habits, you are going to have VERY strong desires to participate in the old habits for quite awhile. That's what makes them habits! One of the biggest mistakes people make is assuming that their desires all day will support their desire to create a new habit. It doesn't usual...

oolala53

The phases just happen. They are not set. The habits are about the same but the reasoning and effort change over time and according to circumstances. That's inevitable. Almost no one immediately takes to any change in eating and has no trouble. It really takes about 2-5 years to settle into a routin...

oolala53

Glad to hear foot issues are improving. This is perfect because I've had two epic fails in the last two days. I hope I'm not kidding myself when I gave in because I felt I just wanted to get it out of my system. I know the urges will be there for the rest of the week, but it's time to stare them dow...

oolala53

I dunno, this doesn't look like out of control to me, though I don' know the amounts you ate. Calling in sick may be frowned upon, but you are entitled to participate in sports on your own time and not to have to work when you are injured. Get well and do your best when you return. Not much more you...

oolala53

I have stayed at the same weight sometimes for long periods of time even though I was compliant with No S, but feeling I was eating sanely meant more to me than weight loss. And eventually, I have continued to lose each year, though it's the changes to my eating that are really the most rewarding. I...

oolala53

For me, I'm pretty sure it's my job. It is not the best fit for me, but in 20 years of searching, I never found the right fit and I felt I had to get serious about making some money and preparing for retirement. I'm a teacher and experience a lot of stress with uncooperative students in just about e...

oolala53

EVENTUALLY, many of your S days will be just like N days. The difference is that it will be even with the freedom to eat. You will just want to wait for your meals.

But no need to be in a hurry. This is for the long run.

oolala53

I still feel cruddy a lot in the afternoons. And a lot of weekends. too. That's just my life right now. I still eat sometimes over it, but MUCH less often (esp. on N days). LIfe doesn't always feel good to me no matter how much I believe in it! I've done a lot to work with this and much has helped, ...

oolala53

N day habits are definitely less stressful than overeating, but it takes many experiences to have that become so clear that the motivation to face down the urgest to overeat gets stronger than the desire. It cannot be just intellectual knowledge. Some people feel it more definitively earlier than ot...

oolala53

I think you may have hit your bottom. You've seen the alternatives and have determined that this is really your best bet. I agree! It didrupts "normal" life less than just about anything else, and has the natural rhythm of ups and downs in learning to eat less over time. The prognosis looks good! (Y...

oolala53

EIGHT kids! I guess a person would really want to be around other people a lot to have eight children. Auto, I used to have all these lists of things I would do instead of eating out of stress. In the back of my mind, I thought I would do those things easily and they would make my world rosy. When t...

oolala53

I live alone and would feel very weird if I ate with no other activity going on all the time. However, this actually helps, as I will stop at times during the meal to pay more attention to other stuff. Do chat with a friend. Most people in slim cultures also eat their meals with others. Conversation...

oolala53

You sound apologetic about the burger and fries for lunch. You were hungry. They tasted good. No problem. You are not on a diet! (It also sounds like you weren't very hungry even at dinner time and ate simply. That's how it's done.)

oolala53

It's almost as if people lose the ability to observe what is really happening. I've reported this here many times. If I get very hungry AND eat slowly, still savoring my food as I usually, I get full faster! In fact, I have to slow down even more so that I can really get the enjoyment out of the foo...

oolala53

Just keep thinking of those wonderful meals when the urge for snacks strikes. Remind yourself you had a meal awhile ago and you will again in a few hours. And maybe have some of the snack foods AT those meals?

Then divert, divert, divert!

oolala53

Just in case it helps, I ended up watching a program on TV presented by Dr. Robert Baron at the UC San Francisco Osher Mini Medical School for the Public, where he directs programs for the obese. He says fit trumps fat for good health. He recommended that you never go to bed at night without plannin...

oolala53

There is no reason S days will move in a linear way to calming, especially if you are stress-eating. Getting over stress eating doesn't work that way in the majority of cases. Why expect if of yourself? If you are going to write down what you eat on S days, which is totally fine, try not to analyze ...

oolala53

I'm not sure it's very French to write down your food, but writing down your S's is a time-honored mod. It certainly fits with modern habit findings that recording any behavior helps change it in the direction desired.

What remains is to DO it. Good luck!

oolala53

First of all, I'm sorry for your trying times! Hope your situation improves soon. I gently suggest that for now you just worry about being a meal-eater, not an intuitive eater. Even vending machine food can be a meal, if necessary. Just get enough for a meal at once and eat it slowly. Then, no matte...

oolala53

On my other board, members are always saying things like, "I got stressed out and didn't have time," implying that it takes a lot of time to plan for food and such. Sure, it does, if you are trying to be on a diet and eat those perfect snacks, etc. It does not take time NOT to eat! And you are going...

oolala53

I wish we could get this going! I actually receive the Flylady newsletter every day but don't read it. If I gave one-tenth the attention to cleaning/organizing I do to eating issues, things would be a lot better! It's just always been easier to me NOT to eat, than it is to actually DO something prod...

oolala53

Goodman sounds more like a task master than an optimist. I think an optimist would give you a much higher score. Come on, girlfriend, you're in the top 5% for weight, eating, and exercising!

oolala53

I was interested in the fact relatively early on was that he said that doctors are unlikely to even talk to a patient about obesity to 3 our of 4 people who are obviously heavy. It almost seems like a lose-lose situation. On the other forum I write on, I have heard tons of complaints about their doc...

oolala53

Yeah! I struggled enough after my initial three months of perfect compliance that I know a lot of people would have (and have) given up. But I just kept thinking that it it didn't mean I was failing completely, and that has paid off.

I'm still perfecting my cha-cha.

oolala53

I'm pretty sure 3 meals a day and banning flour/sugar foods is an underpinning of OA, though they didn't ban anything when I went. I could just never accept that I had to go through all their steps. I know for alcoholics, they say you have to have hit bottom. That I think I did, and after that, I co...

oolala53

You won't get the benefits of intermittent fasting if you are having coffee with cream, but that doesn't seem to be your intent, so no loss. I am a coffee drinker during the school year. I do now, after nearly 4 years, try to go without it two mornings a week, but that's new. I'm not hungry much in ...

oolala53

Is there no mod that sounds reasonable to try on S days? (In case none do, don't despair. NO mods sounded doable to me for 2 years! I hated how I felt when overeating on S days, yet not having the freedom also sounded intolerable- until it didn't. But N days were my safety zone.) I have seen your pr...

oolala53

I humbly suggest that you avoid talking about it with your family much. Because our culture is so used to either adolescent freedom or prison-like restriction, NO S scares them or puzzles them even more than a truly scary or puzzling diet. Most people have not witnessed a lot of examples of pleasura...

oolala53

Yeah, I read your tidy list of foods and thought about all the foods I picked at before and during a midday potluck I went to yesterday. What a chore it would have been to write them all down! I know some people say writing it will keep them from nibbling so much because they don't want to have to w...

oolala53

"snack sized bad of doritos" Dr. Freud! Paging Dr. Freud! Oh, I forgot that you homeschool. Do you teach other kids, that you worry about what students say about you when you're not around? I had a friend who lived in a small mountain community for a few years in which she homeschooled. She said she...

oolala53

Please do not underestimate the value of writing a list of reasons you would like to learn to eat moderately. Spread them out over different categories. It's okay to have some vanity reasons but if you look at the stats, those end up not actually being very successful at helping people accept eating...

oolala53

Auto, that is exactly a pattern I noticed even before No S. In fact, my strongest fake hunger came/comes in hours 1-3 after eating. Compulsive eating researchers have found that eating itself can be a "trigger" for more eating. That is another reason No S sounded smart when I came across it. Crazy t...

oolala53

I say this as gently as I can: you are kind of jumping the gun with worrying about your S days. You cannot judge at all what your S days are going to look like 6 months from now by what you do in the first few weeks. Try not to micro-analyze what is going on in these first few months. That is diet h...

oolala53

I haven't read all your posts, and when I just came on your thread, I happened to fall on the post about your anxiety about teaching. I thought, when did I post here? Because I thought it was me. I'm a high school teacher and pretty much tortured by the experience every day. I KNOW I am making mista...

oolala53

BTW, honestly, I avoided opening your thread because it seemed a little hifalutin' to ask people to read 17 things about anyone. But I should have known no one like that would end up posting here. You are a delight!

oolala53

Hey, Girl! I use that concept of "my tribe," too. Gosh, I wish I had that "I don't care what people think of me" at age 60. That's another forum and day. But it's not why I did No S. Weight loss wasn't high on my list, either, though I did put a few reasons on my motivation list about certain outfit...

oolala53

I just looked at the table of contents. Please tell what the chapters on Red, Yellow and Green, and The Traffic Light are. Any relation to Habitcal?

oolala53

The French and Italians pretty much live quite similarly to No S all the time. They don't take days off from their routines just because they have a day off work. That's just our confused culture of restrict, then overeat because we have access to food or it's time to celebrate. There is so much ple...

oolala53

Reinhard has to be the one to make a sticky thread. It has to be pretty applicable to most members. I almost can't believe I haven't seen this one, esp. since I just looked and it has a ton of reviews. How did it get passed me? Though a lot of books have since my marriage to No S just after Christma...

oolala53

My sympathy for your loss.

In terms of eating, I think you'll be fine.

oolala53

Sleep. baby, sleep!

oolala53

I think I post for a couple of reasons. One is a little embarrassing; I haven't found anything else quite as compelling in life! I'm single and am realizing I'm a bit of an introvert. I love thinking about this topic. Maybe it helps me keep it in perspective, in the sense that our culture is so craz...

oolala53

Ni-i-ice. After nearly 4 years, I still get the urge to snack at work most days of the week. I'm a teacher and it's after the students leave that the thought drifts through my mind to go blotto. My job is not the best match for me, but there aren't a lot of openings for my best match, which is princ...

oolala53

Isn't the holiday still about two weeks away? If there is ANY reason to think you'll eat more of it, put it where it would be very hard to get: in the trunk of someone else's car, the garage, or even in a brown paper bag at someone else's house. Don't kid yourself! And do move on. Keep thinking you ...

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