Everyday Systems

oolala53

Oh, I thought it was a class you were a student in. I teach, too, and there are parts of it that I find VERY challenging. It wasn't the best fit for me but I needed some financial security at middle age, so I went for it. Now that I No S is my style of eating, I find my work schedule normally is ver...

oolala53

Eventually, eating because of stress will become a memory only. I'm not quite there yet, but close.

Glad you are finding some equanimity.

oolala53

Yes, we are sometimes going to have disappointing meals. It's just a few hours to the next one and, in between, life! There's got to something a little interesting in there... Hope you enjoy your class.

oolala53

I looked up orthorexia and found a site with a quiz. I answered No to all the questions and it still told me I may have it, somehow assigning me 2-3 points. I admit some of them I wavered on, I really don't think they rule me anymore. But I know in the past I would have had to say yes to a lot of th...

oolala53

Thanks. Sounds like a good way to avoid letting the WTH effect take over.

oolala53

OO, tough one. I know I have often wished that I went to help my sister with my mom's care before my mom died, but my sister had only her husband to help. You do have more people involved. However, she took it a lot harder than I think I would have. My sister kept thinking that my mom shouldn't have...

oolala53

Would you direct me to the date MJ posted about this number 2 business? TX.

oolala53

HI, Sinnie. I wrote you a private message before I knew your whole story. It doesn't change things dramatically, but I'm still going to write you another later. Can't do it right now. I will say this: life is hardly ever about just one thing, but it can be easy to feel that is it. Trying to find a b...

oolala53

I'm having a caloric drink right now and will eat lunch in two hours. BTW, on my other board, we have one thread just for these kinds of declarations. We can commit to 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, until the next meal- whatever we need. There the goal is not to binge. I've turned several people o...

oolala53

By now, my day's eating MIGHT look light, but it has taken this long for my appetite and willingness to merge. I've eaten a lot of freggies at my meals for years, so people who see me just think I eat healthy, I think. (They didn't know about the bingeing I did at home, or in the car, etc.) However,...

oolala53

That's why this process is not over in a few weeks or months. We each have to figure out when it's the food that's the problem or the mental side of it. Do I just want more or do I really need it for satiety? Some people can get away with less thinking about it. I think most of them have a lot more ...

oolala53

I'd say caloric drinks are economical when it comes to mental energy in comparison to chewing. I feel very civilized and reasonable with my cup of milky coffee or whatever. It feels very weird to me now to think I need a few bites of things at a time. "What's going to satisfy me now but not ruin my ...

oolala53

Glad you're liking this. But it really takes a few years to call something a lifestyle. You'll see that fewer and fewer events seem S-worthy after a year or two-- or sooner.

oolala53

Divert, divert, divert. The urge feels real, but the need is an illusion. In fact, just the opposite. Chocolate's the last thing you need. One thinking tactic I used to use was to tell myself that those chocolates or whatever were not for me. I convinced myself they actually belonged to other people...

oolala53

Unfortunately, sane eating practices are not going to appeal to the majority. The media and weight loss industry empires are very good at manipulating human desire. That's why we need our little tribe here. Besides, remember that I think Reinhard didn't even share it much until he had been at it fou...

oolala53

Were colleagues actually going to other vending machines to buy snacks?

The longer you practice No S, the less it matters what's around you. But it is a shame that others have one more impetus to eat.

oolala53

It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can both change your habits.

oolala53

You can have anything on an S day. You don't have to limit yourself to hot chocolate.

I have mocha between meals three years in to No S.

oolala53

Success.

oolala53

I'll have to remember that the next time I'm in the Arctic.

oolala53

Thanks for noticing, all! Strawberry, you're right I've been thinking for so long that I had lost around 30 lb.that I didn't see how close it had come. Forty sounds very respectable. And a lot of it has come more toward the recent past. And it's still not the point. I'm just finding it harder and ha...

oolala53

Everyone knows I ADORE No S, but I didn't post this because I believe No S is a panacea. In a food-rich culture, almost no one can be blase about food choices. Most of us need to be mindful, and some people will require more extreme measures. The odds are just better with No S's variety of mindful f...

oolala53

At home, I make coffee and add about half a cup of hot whole milk. Then I add about a tablespoon of cocoa powder and some stevia. I even sometimes add a little half and half! At work, I resort to poison, i.e., powdered creamer. I keep the other fixings there, too. Given how little processed foods I ...

oolala53

OMgosh, everyone else probably knows this, but where in heaven's name do you get duck fat? and please don't be like my high school student who would say, "From a fat duck."

oolala53

Good plan. I feel lucky that my school has a lunch break starting at 12:35 p.m. Some schools eat earlier and I know I would have a hard time getting to dinner under those circumstances.

oolala53

Ah, BrightAngel, I was waiting for you to weigh in! I defined what I meant because I believe that's what most people think of when they say they are going on a diet. I'm very aware that "diet" in the end means whatever and whenever a person eats. But I'd say diet has achieved another meaning. I COMP...

oolala53

I grind my flaxseeds, keeping just a few servings in the freezer. Do you?

oolala53

In your case, then, straight up Vanilla should do the trick. If you're not eating a lot of processed or restaurant foods, then it's a matter of eating less of what you do cook. Keep it to three plates and adjust downward if you don't lose in a month or two.

oolala53

With sugar or drunk inca style, it;s allowd.If booz is, cocoa is,One of the gentile practices of life.

oolala53

Liz, you are just beginning your insights and pleasant surprises. Those tough times may come again. We live in a land of constant exposure. There will bound to be times even this plan will seem unfair, and why does it have to be so hard, and yada yada yada. At least when you get back on the train, i...

oolala53

Recording my seasonal weigh-in. Down 4.3 lbs. since last one Dec. 21. Hope this means the chinks are getting filled in.

Oh, forgot to add that this puts me about 1.5 lbs. above what I weighed when I graduated from high school. I think.

oolala53

Congrats on feeling that S days aren't as burdensome. And after only 7 weeks! That's actually fast. Nice!

oolala53

I don't think it burns that many calories, but your muscles can pull it all in.

I think it's how a roll becomes a pretzel. It's its abdominal contraction.

oolala53

Isn't this interesting. Not new info. I knew it but had forgotten most of the sources for it. It supports what some say, and I contend, about dieting for MOST--not all--. And by dieting I mean a purposeful restriction of foods and amounts to match a target low intake and weight goal. It certainly do...

oolala53

You can start an individual thread for checking in on the check-n forum. There are varying opinions on beverages between meals. I've used mocha and latte with stevia for years. Others use juice but I hear of that less and less. Others taper down to just water after awhile. In the beginning, don't sw...

oolala53

I haven't used habitcal much, but I wasn't avoiding it. I'm just lazy about it. I guess it just wasn't reinforcing enough for me, and the delightful feelings of hunger and satiety, plus the deliciousness of my food when not snacking was and is.

oolala53

I would definitely take advantage of such a menu. And no dishes to wash!

oolala53

It won't likely happen in a few weeks, but you really will get to the point at which the food around you is meaningless. Just keep thinking that you don't want to ruin your appetite. And you are way ahead of the game on S days. I used to think I worked better with food, only it wasn't a small amount...

oolala53

My S days were wild for a LONG time. But as you, I figured 2x a week was better than the 7x it was before No S. Glad I stuck it out.

oolala53

Trying to imagine what it would be like to love a job... or not eat until 3 p.m.

Keep it up!

oolala53

This because many people have modified the original plan with success, though most are not successful with modifications until they have established some discipline with the original and have found out that they truly need a mod and aren't just having withdrawal and denial. Most long-termers will st...

oolala53

Do you have a Mac? I do, and must use Safari. but I'll try it.

oolala53

The point about S days, besides that they are not meant to give permission to "be an idiot" and somehow still lose weight, is that some people have the get tame naturally and some people tame them with a chair, but that a whip is probably no different than past tactics that didn't work long term. If...

oolala53

Success officially. I say officially because even though I ate a very small breakfast and very moderate lunch, I was not one bit hungry for dinner, but chose to eat. Reinhard says to go ahead and eat pre-emptively in such situations. I guess I could have chosen to eat even more lightly than I did, e...

oolala53

Awesome.

oolala53

I think you need to send an email to yourself from the link.

oolala53

Oops. though my URL was different, I posted one to the same SPAM post on a detox diet.

oolala53

I'll be watching yours! I look forward to your testimonial in a year. Please do start a check-in thread. But don't think you absolutely have to be caught up in this as you might have been on diets. I always made diets a part-time job. I still spend a lot of time on this issue because I either consid...

oolala53

If those discussion were all she was interested in in your friendship... but women do often bond over this issue in our culture. Some feminist writers years ago said it was a way for the hegemony to keep women distracted from their real plight! That and the need to be as beautiful as what they calle...

oolala53

Your son is wise! Judith Beck actually recommends writing "NO CHOICE" on an index card and reading it everyday as a reminder to use it at the times of dickering.

The dickering is a habit, too, and can take time to be changed. But we're on our way!

oolala53

I binged for 38 years. I overeat some on weekends now, but no real bingeing now. I did not go from 60 to 0, and there were tough moments. Worth it! When you are truly sick of the effects of your eating, and realize that the pain of overeating is worse than the pain to reduce it, you will face the ch...

oolala53

The Power of Some on one plate will work for quite awhile.

oolala53

Don't know why I assumed you meant for the rules to apply only on N days for awhile. It worries me that you are already fearing the difficulty and making changes. I never said these would be easy. You have been at the mercy of food and your fear of deprivation for a long time. NOTHING that involves ...

oolala53

I hadn't actually read your whole post on your friend with the eating obsession. I had to wonder if she asked for your feedback. :lol: I see on Sparkpeople that there are people there that I consider to be a mess, but they get a huge amount of recognition and admiration for their habits. A women who...

oolala53

I'm sorry that I can't get the formatting icons to work, but to spread the No S wisdom, consider telling APM about it. Maybe if there are enough of us, they'll feature it on a program. It sure deserves the exposure. http://www.publicinsightnetwork.org/user/user_thank_you.php?isPIJ=Y&form_code=9eaa60...

oolala53

Hope your husband is on the mend.

Keep up the good work!

oolala53

MJ, if you keep at it, you are going to have lots of phases and insights that will actually probably change over time. But if you don't stick with it, you won't have a chance at them. You seem to know that now, after quitting and coming back. I don't know if I should say this, but I gently suggest y...

oolala53

Liz, ditto on the scale. Why not experiment with using your waist or thigh measurement instead? It may not change as much or as often as people expect from the scale, but it is more realistic and the waist measurement is a much better indicator of health. Or chuck both of them and stick with days on...

oolala53

I'm so glad you recognize just how great you're doing.

oolala53

Ironically, though I continue not to be 100% compliant on N days, I still feel very good about my level of participation. Had a decent weekend even with some overeating, but I realize I'm just not willing at this point to be more strict. Once again, I hope I'm not kidding myself. The two mods I'm us...

oolala53

"I am going to stick with: 1. Unless socially awkward, sit down to eat. 2. Unless socially awkward, eat without distractions. 3. Always chew and swallow food before preparing the next bite. I do not presume this will lead to weight loss. I give up. What I want is freedom. " It is rarely socially awk...

oolala53

The site may not refer to three meals, but the book does. On page 54, it says "So no more than three meals a day, but no less. Let the minimum be the maximum." page 58: "If you have a medical condition that requires you to eat more often, you can still do so and be a proud No S Dieter. Just make sur...

oolala53

BlitheMorning, I think if someone isn't ready to face that or something similar in terms of long term eating habit changes, they aren't ready to start at all. But most people want all the trouble to be over with in a few weeks. Possible, just highly unlikely. I'm stupidly lounging on my first day of...

oolala53

I have a Mac, so I use Safari.

Most of the formatting icons don't work, either.

oolala53

I know you're having some bad moments. But I also know you're in it for the long haul. Try not to wish for ease soon. Wish for strength before ease. Ironically, when you get stronger when it's hard, the number of times you need strength will decrease. But it takes a lot longer than 6 weeks for the m...

oolala53

I tried to post a poll but it didn't work. I filled out the comment box and the poll question, but only the comment appeared. What did I do wrong?

oolala53

What did you mean that you had become "lax" in your eating? Was there any room for a "release valve," such as S days? I don't think the fact that you became lax means it wasn't a decent plan. Many people use Vanilla No S successfully for quite awhile, then slide for whatever reasons, and return. The...

oolala53

If you found that habit satisfying and your small dessert didn't lead to bigger ones, that sounds like a fine plan. I know that someone left a link here once to an old-fashioned European health plan in which the author said that unless a person was a manual laborer, he should eat only two meals a da...

oolala53

Cheers to your maintenance and good luck with the check up. You deserve good news.

oolala53

Don't want to scare anyone but it took me two years before my S days calmed down, and that was with about an 85% average of green N days. And I did have time when my weight loss stalled for months at a time because of it. But I took the long view and each year, I lost weight, got into my healthy BMI...

oolala53

No S has the advantage of not starting out too tough but giving MOST people the chance to have more than enough at first and learning to get to "enough," if they're willing to be honest and admit that they need less than they often thought. It can happen fast or slowly or never, if the insistence is...

oolala53

I tried to post a poll but the poll section didn't come up.

oolala53

I would have brought the lemon bars home, too. You will feel your way with this issue of having sweets in the house. I used to have a bunch of stuff in the freezer. Sometimes I overate them and sometimes not. Now I just rarely have them because I live alone and I eat those things so seldom and in su...

oolala53

For that, I'd do it, too.

oolala53

Good point about the protein/meal bars and such, though they have always seemed like a mistake to me. I don't think I ever ate just one at a time! They were too easy to eat a lot of, and that to me is the sign of a junk food. I just wonder how old these people are and what people ate growing up. I g...

oolala53

ALL you had to do? Eliminate a few things? I'm glad it worked for you, and I have known of at least one other person for whom the kind of diet you're talking about made life more than tolerable again, but for someone who is not suffering from near the problems you're talking about, these are not eas...

oolala53

The stats do show that of those who have kept weight off, 75% of them record their food. However, those are the ones who have made it. I maintain that since so many people often stop trying BECAUSE they don't want to have to keep recording, it should hardly be gospel. And the low obesity rate of Fra...

oolala53

I know technically 53% is most, but it sounds pretty evenly divided. I think for most it's harder to eat well because you have to make decisions every day; taxes are painful but they're confined. I think it's very interesting that the article reported that most people thought that enjoying their foo...

oolala53

Very nice to hear of how much happier you are with your eating and especially with getting hungry for your meals. Exercise is still missing for me, but I've managed to take off a few more pounds each year, and we are in the same age range. (My highest weight was also 200 lbs. at 5'6", but it wasn't ...

oolala53

Don't you carry a daypack or something? You CAN carry a plastic plate. For years, I've taken my lunch in divided plastic containers that are about the size of a plate. I usually put freggies in the biggest compartment and fit the starches/protein/fat in the smaller ones. Depending on the foods, I ma...

oolala53

I binged my way up to my highest weight ever after I became a teacher in the public schools after age 40. I sometimes bought big bags of M & M's on the way to school and ate handfuls of them before, during, and after school, then followed it up with stops on the way home for more junk and more eatin...

oolala53

First of all, I think it's better not to regard S days as 48 hours. Although it's never said officially to start on Saturday morning, I think it's because Reinhard never anticipated people starting in at midnight on Friday, as some do. Think of S days as about 36-40 hours, from Sat. morning until Su...

oolala53

Honestly, I am not doing well at all in getting myself to exercise consistently, even just a little. I feel my food is fine, though not strictly compliant. I'm not sure why I"m posting this as I don't have the feeling that I'm ready to commit, either. Maybe building up to it?

oolala53

The bottom line is that you do something else with your time (not snorting cocaine or slashing tires, of course!) besides eat and that is a reward in itself- it has been to me. I used to think I had to find the perfect activity to replace the food. I felt if I wasn't doing something to achieve somet...

oolala53

Not a long post at all. I had many stalls my first year. Keep trying to use beverages instead of food when you get the "I don't care" feeling. You care, but the urges are neurochemical and real, and they DON'T care. Their whole purpose is to keep the habit alive. They will come and go for a long tim...

oolala53

Alikatz, Since this is a testimonial thread, I'm going to write to you separately about this. I also suggest you look at the thread under the general discussions called "Intelligent Dietary Defaults." Plus, browse some of the check in threads to find some on which the members post their meals. Even ...

oolala53

Oh, I've done that kind of night cooking as well. Hope the guys enjoyed the meatballs!

oolala53

I am only about 80% compliant right now, but my slips are small in comparison with the first year. However, I do want to tighten up; I just don't want to do it out of guilt and shame. Size isn't the main reason I do this, but my pants are fitting about the same or are even looser anyway. Have one ev...

oolala53

I imagine you might feel some tummy muscles later, too.

oolala53

Please tell us how it's going.

oolala53

A little curious why you didn't just plan to serve the meatballs as part of dinner for everyone... But I agree that coming here to post is better than eating. Often you won't be able to figure out exactly why you want food when it's not time to eat. I found after years of examining this that it rare...

oolala53

Have milk or another beverage, unless you really aren't hungry. Then water and diversions. You can do it! Get through 4 days. Friday will be easy and then you have S days. But don't wait until you have 4 days in a row.

oolala53

I think it really depends on the habit, how much it matches the vision we have of ourselves, how much trouble it is, etc. One researcher reported on a man who was a real union guy, and also a smoker for decades. He had tried to stop many times, but couldn't. One day a co-worker made fun of him for s...

oolala53

Maybe you're not being enough of an "idiot" on S days. :) Nicest, I notice I'm more like that over small after-dinner failures. The next night, before dinner, I'll think, now, don't eat any more after dinner. You aren't hungry anyway. But the thoughts/urges will still come and there might be a littl...

oolala53

And the French don't eat a lot of American-style processed foods, though technically, flour is processed and cheese is, too.

oolala53

It's true that it is still within our power to choose to eat less, but the point Kessler and others are making is that these foods are ENGINEERED to bypass the normal mechanism that humans have to limit intake. Thus a person may have to make more conscious choices to curtail the intake, and it may h...

oolala53

Former FDA Commissioner Dr. David Kessler did a pretty good job describing this in his book The End of Overeating published in 2010. I think he made a mistake at the end by telling people they should banish processed foods completely. Maybe they SHOULD, but most won't, and we know what the WTH effec...

oolala53

Regarding the 9-meal diet: "The regularity of the smaller meals may be just as important as the quantity, say experts. Recently, scientists in Israel revealed that snacking haphazardly throughout the day can lead to more weight gain compared with eating at regular times. ...The team say timing of fo...

oolala53

I've reported that it takes 3-5 years of practice to change eating habits to eating less, and there's still a relapse rate even then. That's extrapolating from information posted on the National Weight Loss Registry site. Leave it to Reinhard to come up with the perfect dry response about how he'd b...

oolala53

I call just about any food on my plate when I'm hungry at meal time "super" food.

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