Everyday Systems

oolala53

So what if you get your info at the diet center! If it keeps you from being consumed by it all, I think that's a plus. And sometimes we do need other influences to help us do what we know would be better. We're just ready at different times, too. It sounds like they are reminding you that you can ma...

oolala53

Glad you're feeling more hopeful. Congrats on the loss!

oolala53

Especially food habits. They're more tied up with other issues and there are so many eating cues per day. I think the dinner to dinner might work for me. I've considered it. (I've also considered letting myself have an old-fashioned binge day once a month with no self-recrimination allowed, but some...

oolala53

I had one 36-hour fast come on naturally during winter break this year. Just wasn't hungry and kept waiting until I was. I wouldn't call it easy, though. I've tried to go with my lack of hunger a couple of other times on weekends, but I never get through it. I can't plan them. It's hard enough for m...

oolala53

Did your fast go from dinner to dinner or was it a 36-hour affair?

oolala53

Liz, your sister sounds perfect to be around. Not ruled by the outside circumstances. (Restaurant servings are almost always too big, no? Go ahead and take leftovers with you rather than finish, if you get full, no matter what they are. You can always throw them out later. And a lot of foods keep be...

oolala53

Amy3010, I just wanted to tell you I have used No S on road trips (shorter than yours) and it worked quite well. I allow myself coffee in between, so that satisfied any desire to snack on road food. If you want road snacks, get have them with your meals!

oolala53

Sounds like a good plan.

oolala53

You need to lose FAT for the muscle to show.

Once again, do the basics for a month or so. Then re-evaluate.

oolala53

Went to a potluck yesterday. Wasn't not starved when I got there. I didn't sample a lot of foods that were there, trying to stick to just what I really wanted. And I knew there was cake! It was a kind I REALLY like and I had a big piece. Enjoyed it! Did not leave stuffed. Looking forward to a good d...

oolala53

Hello, Paula. I started seriously at the end of December in 2009, so I just missed you. Welcome back. I'm glad for you that you haven't returned having gained weight, as many have, but that you also believe there is value in the habits. How much weight have you lost all together? I'm glad to hear yo...

oolala53

July 1 and a Sunday. A perfect time to renew sane eating.

oolala53

No S and the workout recommendations are not meant to be the foundation for losing the most weight possible or building the most muscle possible, etc. It's all a way just to incorporate reasonable habits of moderate eating and fitness. It's optimum is in its sustainability.

oolala53

I forgot you've said before you live in Seattle. Gosh, I love that city! My college friend whom I traveled with to Iran back in 1976 is the head of the U of W language program for non-native English speakers, so I've gotten to visit. Yes, once kids are asleep, why move 'em? I bet your car is pretty ...

oolala53

Remind me where you're driving from? That's a long haul. You're going in one stretch! Ah, youth!

oolala53

Gotta be honest. Though there was some victory involved, this baking stuff is still rather a muddy issue, no? Likely not to be solved today, though. So what? I'm reading a book on how to "sit with" our ambiguities without necessarily being anxious. I definitely still have ambiguities with food. Mayb...

oolala53

Five Reese's cups used to be the start of a binge for me... but last night I had a fail with about a cup of fresh cherries (eaten out of the bag, not in a bowl) and about 2 cups of cereal-- same thing. This was after dinner. I felt so full! Okay, let's try this again. Though I don't have 21 days of ...

oolala53

I just want to say that if for nothing else, you will do well to accept No S just because of the obsession. For one thing, I am also 5' 6" and I have not weighed 133 since I was a freshman in high school. I don't ever expect to get there again. So it is good that you see that weight is not the issue...

oolala53

No S is separate from 14 minutes so you wouldn't be violating it. !4 minutes isn't just about preventing diabetes, though. It's about moderately simulating some of the functional strength that humans have had to use in the past. I don't think any claims have been made for other benefits, though I'm ...

oolala53

I find myself still thinking a lot of "this is how you don't overeat" kinds of thoughts as well as congratulating myself about it so that it's about control, not just about how great food is. It's weird because I don't feel on the edge about it but I still think about it as if I did. Sounds paradoxi...

oolala53

Viva la revolution!

oolala53

Going after the worst offender first is a decent strategy.

oolala53

I amended this question from a psychotherapist to an alcoholic: The question is not why do you drink? The question is what would you do if you didn't drink? Bottom line, we have to do something else with our time- and our thoughts.

oolala53

REad my last comment and it sounded snarkier than I wanted. I'm actually VERY glad it was mentioned and regret only that it was just in passing. It needs to be a regular feature, though I think Reinhard's whole point is that it isn't that complicated. However, time has shown that implementation is s...

oolala53

What will you put if you choose to make a weekday an S day?

Otherwise, I get it. If this helps you avoid the WTH effect, mazel tov.

Hold out for the pleasure of hunger.

oolala53

They don't have bread or potato at dinner? I thought bread was a staple. I always heard about the bakeries where the people get it fresh for meals.

oolala53

Although I see that our culture has ridiculous assumptions about eating, I can't really blame all my thinking about food on it. Unfortunately, I am also influenced by the bodies in the media. It's not the burden it used to be but I still seem to spend mental energy fighting the expectation to be thi...

oolala53

Oh, I forgot to say that I put the little bowls on my plate for lunch or dinner and fill the rest of the plate with other foods, whatever they are. If I'm really hungry in the morning, I might even put my cereal bowl on a luncheon plate and put other food on the plate. But that happens less often now.

oolala53

For cereal, side servings of soup (rather than main meal), yogurt and such, I have little dessert bowls or the bigger size of the bowls that are often used to hold chopped ingredients when cooking. But the real measure for me is what combination and ratio of dense foods are going to satisfy me now a...

oolala53

Great to hear about the consistent dancing. Isn't that what we should be doing at night instead of TV? Too bad the culture doesn't support THAT. I'm doing more for a dance camp in about 2 weeks and it is fun! No loss of size for me. Habit first, results later, if ever. Just the increase in vitality ...

oolala53

I'm repeating myself, but my palm is for protein at a meal. Around 2 fists of volume of starch, tops. 2-3 fists of freggies, with 2/3 veggies. 1-2 thumbs of high fat food or an oil. (Usually less protein at breakfast). These are all ball park, but I think it averages out for me. But I have found tha...

oolala53

What rotten luck! And good advice.

oolala53

Glad you and the baby are okay!

oolala53

I'm glad this made a difference for you, Noel. Your perseverance deserves a payoff beyond the other benefits I know you've already experienced. I'm into this 2.5 years and still finding it natural to make adjustments to the basics, as in how much I put on a plate of any size. (I tend to use my hand ...

oolala53

I think I know what you're talking about. You're not thinking about food in a casual way but feeling more driven about it. Not to get too psychoanalytical about it but I have found that just as we often eat to avoid other things, we can think about food to avoid thinking about other topics. But it's...

oolala53

Woohoo, the big time is just around the corner now. Let's everyone get ready for the newbies on the main board!

oolala53

I drink broth (no solids) in a cup sometimes between meals or if I get home very hungry before making dinner. Some cultures put salt in their tea. I regard it like that. But only if I am genuinely hungry. I drink mocha for hunger as well and don't regard it as a fail even though it's not for thirst....

oolala53

We love the prodigals, but the fatted calf is served only at mealtimes.

oolala53

Hear, Hear, Nicest.

oolala53

My guest contacted a possible employer in NoCal and got the go-ahead to go up there for work, so he has already left to tell the employer here it isn't going to work for him. It was more the urban environment he was unhappy with and the other job is close to rural surroundings. I sure hope it works ...

oolala53

Out of curiosity, are you trying to low carb it?

oolala53

Here's sending you the fast-between-meals vibe.

oolala53

And the other thing is that the thoughts may precede the actual behavior by many tries. They may even be part of the process of learning, so even when we have the right thoughts, but still eat, it doesn't mean we failed. We are actually on the right path. And lastly, try to get over the idea that we...

oolala53

Forty years of overdoing it finally let me see that I had had plenty of sweets and overeating, so when more opportunities came, it was easier to say no. And I knew I could have some later. Yes, delay is better than swearing off, at least in my life. Good job at dinner! I think after awhile you'll ge...

oolala53

Glad to be of service! MJ, it really took about a year for it to get clear deep down that I preferred not overeating, literally hundreds of experiences. It was worth the wait, IMHO. Yeah, I'm sure some people might say I'm kidding myself, that I should be willing to sacrifice all to weigh a certain ...

oolala53

Hi, Deb. Tx for checking in and being honest. It must be tough. But please keep thinking that it is worth your improved health markers to make the temporary sacrifices needed. They are worth the pain of the moment! Remember the peace you've had and face those urges down! Ten minutes, one hour, etc. ...

oolala53

I also feel okay saying it because my habits are actually quite good. I have mostly green N days and my slip-ups are slight now. I eat plenty of freggies and mostly high fiber starches. My sweet eating is obviously higher than what I need but not ridiculous anymore. I over eat rarely. I think I coul...

oolala53

Mindless Eating did one great thing for me, even though so much of it wouldn't have made any difference for me before No S. I mean, if I could put some M & M's in a little bowl and eat them without going back to finish the big package I bought, everything would be fine! But for years I kept wanting ...

oolala53

Go with that plan, Liz. You didn't come to No S overweight, right? It wasn't as if you were consistently only overeating. You wanted to even things out and overcome the WTH effect, even if you didn't know it then. If this keeps you even, perfect. I often don't know exactly what I will have at a meal...

oolala53

I don't feel I have to plan to have any sweets around as I'm going to an annual solstice party where there is always too much food. I swear i am going to be judicious in my choices. they often have those little lemon small cupcakes as well as some chocolate items. I'm probably goig to make crockpot ...

oolala53

Sounds like a plan.

oolala53

Is it too early to be thinking about the weekend? I'm not focusing on it, but I guess on hump day, I like to think ahead. I'm feeling pretty good as I've been experimenting with eating a little less and it's been okay, after I got over the initial fear. It's like I'm starting over a bit. And I guess...

oolala53

I'm sure that even a slow walk does do us good, but I agree that I need to feel some intensity. I have a friend who walks dogs so she walks for hours a day often, but she is afraid to go to a dance class with me for fear of not being able to keep up. I want to keep up, so pushing myself is important...

oolala53

Admittedly, I did a little eating for the scale yesterday. I knew I was weighing in. That just means I was careful not to add an extra spoonful of yogurt or another serving of bread or such as I looked at my plate before I served myself my meal. Honestly, it was enough food, but I do feel a little s...

oolala53

I'm sorry this has been your experience at the get go. It must be a little frightening. I don't know the amounts but your meals sound reasonable and your weekends, too. What were you eating like before? Were you eating meals and snacks and/or seconds? Permasnacking? A lot of processed foods? Of cour...

oolala53

Noel, good to hear from you!

You think they meant that we are "lady"-like? I know the civility of this board has been admired more than once.

oolala53

Actually, I'm a little curious about your not being able to do Shovelglove. It seems it wouldn't take up much space for simulated shoveling, woodcutting. churning, etc. But I know how it can feel weird in a cramped space even when there is space.

Outside the back door?

oolala53

MJ, you used a good analogy of dropping the phone and Liz alluded to the one we often use here: you don't go crash the car into a pole just because you got a dent in it. However, the difference is usually you don't even want to drive after the dent! and we still do get the urges to eat after that fi...

oolala53

Welcome back! Just try to remember that there is not much that can get in the way of just having three moderate meals a day. Everything but sweets works, including fast food and convenience food, if the place is torn up. Even without exercise, No S is still a winner. So much more fun than Medifast! ...

oolala53

Preach alert. Liz, you said it yourself. Commit to Vanilla! It's reasonable, fair, and smart. What's the longest you've ever gone on it? If you crash the car one day, just have very small meals until you start feeling more balanced. But don't skip them. (Then you wont' feel justified in overdoing it...

oolala53

First examine a little why you want them all to be S days. Is there some particular family ritual outside of Vanilla you want to engage in? Do you think the girls need S's every day? When and how much? I'm betting the weekdays could still be N days for you (and maybe even them, depending on their us...

oolala53

Thanks for reporting on this. I'm always grateful and somewhat amazed that the principles of No S keep getting proved, though why it should surprise me, I don't know.

oolala53

Even though it seems I am contradicting myself, I'll tell (and Im repeating myself) I actually counted the calories of the sweets I had last Saturday. I could easily have eaten way more than I did, though I would have felt terrible. It came to more calories than I would usually eat in a meal, and it...

oolala53

Amen. And you are not alone.

I bet there are areas of life in which you are not this way, though, where you have accomplished a lot while not being perfect along the way. It's good to acknowledge those, too.

oolala53

I have gotten better about waiting for dinner but I would not choose on a weeknight or even be able to wait until 9 or later to eat. I do on weekends because of snacks or sweets or eating out.

Thinking about not having a starch at dinner makes me want to cry. I guess I am still in love.

oolala53

Some people on other boards I'm on swear by just giving these things up entirely. They claim the craving or desire goes away completely. And I think it pretty much does, but I also know that the neurochemical pattern lies dormant and will be set off quite easily. Eating occasional moderate amounts a...

oolala53

TX, Jennifer. I just got the idea from thinking of aligning my weighing with the seasons and the averaging from an old diet book. I meant to add that the issue is that I'm disappointed in myself because I'm not sticking with what I would consider the minimum efforts in eating and exercising. I keep ...

oolala53

MJ, I, too, feel I learned from my dieting what meals are actually more satisfying in the long run and they are not full of heavy foods. After I determined to quit dieting and I then felt had to choose rich foods just to offset it all and to show that those foods were okay with me. Finally, I realiz...

oolala53

Yes, I have yet to incorporate regular exercise. But I also know I had been getting a little lax with Vanilla. And there's my weekends. No matter what new changes I make, I have to accept that they will take a long time to show up. Okay, I'll admit, too, that it's been an issue because tomorrow is m...

oolala53

Actually, I would have liked to see him or someone eat at McDonald's for a month and stop eating when he was full at each meal. Of course, that's a different experiment. Spurlock was trying to point out the problem of such huge portions being available and being presented as reasonable. I was at a C...

oolala53

I think the documentary was called Supersize Me. I'm pretty sure McDonald's actually stopped having their employees routinely ask customers if they wanted larger portions after that movie hit. The good news is I don't think I could take even two days of that kind of eating now. I looked up what happ...

oolala53

TX, rungirl! I had a good day of success. Unfortunately I'm awake late and am feeling some grumbling in the tummy. This almost never happens. I hope I fall asleep before it starts sounding like a good idea to have a nosh. However, I don't think that will happen. I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I'm fe...

oolala53

Curious to know why you were still hungry after your meals? Or was it just that urge to keep eating?

You are going to get your mojo back.

oolala53

Wow, you're getting close!

I'm assuming that the books on French parenting also include some of the attitudes about being pregnant as well. I doubt French women see it as a time to throw all eating rules to the wind as if overeating junk is good for a growing fetus.

Keep up the excellent work!

oolala53

Slow and steady. You're doing well. Have you read the thread The Phases of No S? It's a good one. Please be patient with S days. You're just getting going! It may take weeks or even a few months. Or longer. Or not! But increasingly solid N days will also be wonderful.

oolala53

Finally got hungry for dinner after class. Had a fine dinner. Then made a waffle. What for? Because I like them and hadn't had one in a long time. Not a good reason, but the one that occurred. And because I could. My iron has four small squares that make one big one. I kept saying I would eat just o...

oolala53

Hi, Deb. I've had internet connections problems so have missed many updates. Though I'm not realy bingeing, I think I feel some of what you're feeling. Just this moment, I am tired of dealing with the desires that don't go away. My fails are small relatively speaking, but enough to keep me from feel...

oolala53

How's it going, Millie?

oolala53

Went ot of town on wed. to my sister's. She had terrible internet connection. And when I cam back, I found out the cable company had cut my connections. So it's been a hassle. I had a good N week, even visiting my sister. She lost a fair amount of weight on WW, but I think she's put some back on. Ho...

oolala53

Hi, Liz. Been away from reliable internet. Glad you feel good! I see you had some tough times- a day and aftermath. Fie on the habit of imagining how good something will taste or feel going down. Bingers spend more time on that than they do on remembering the negative effects of overeating. When the...

oolala53

Hey, I've been out fo the loop, too, reasons in my thread. Things sound better for you. Don't want to rain on your parade, but I do have a question. Why do you say you force yourself to finish plates of food? Part of No S is being free to stop when you've had enough. There is no obligation to finish...

oolala53

How's it going? Don't give up on June. There is always time for a reprieve. And it can start with one good meal and one good fast between meals.

oolala53

But what about the dough or batter not even making it to the oven? Was this ever your practice? Maybe I'll be able to bake someday, but I stick to increasing my repertoire of veggies and grains these days. And my new forays will be into dressings and sauces. I still love the ones I buy but I'd like ...

oolala53

Try not to pressure yourself to figure out the absolute best choice for your S's. I think that was one of my mistakes. I realize I was still expecting so much of food. Assume you will get lots of opportunities over a period of time to have many wonderful experiences with S's and just have good meals...

oolala53

Whatever it is we want, at 11 p.m. it is likely not in the refrigerator.

oolala53

Hope you are content with how your weekend went. As Reinhard has said, the program itself doesn't change. Our attitude changes, and that may include eating more slowly, putting different foods in different amounts on the plate as time goes by, realizing we prefer not being too full, etc. As my spiri...

oolala53

I see the parallel, too. In sitting, anything- usually thoughts of the future or past- that gets in the way of observing the present moment is simply acknowledged and then you go back to the present sensations. Over and over. There is never any good reason to pay attention to the thoughts while sitt...

oolala53

Ditto.

oolala53

You call whatever you want "breakfast." If you prefer to drink it, fine. If you want your green juice with something, fine. Beverages at meals and between them are your call.

oolala53

Jocelyn, I think if you can have 2 or 3 meals and some small chocolate item a day, that would qualify as having tamed your sweet habit. Especially if you have a hard and fast rule about how much chocolate you can have at a time. Never more than such and such in a day. It's just another way of doing ...

oolala53

Oh, that stockpiling thing got me for years. I finally gave in when I saw Brian Wansink's work in Mindless Eating. Even thin people are affected by proximity. I do think it's true that we help heal overeating by consistently giving ourselves enough pleasurable eating experiences that we calm down ab...

oolala53

I think what leafy-greens is talking about is the sense that food is still an overarching concern in life and that it exerts a nearly constant pressure to either eat it or avoid it. That is NOT true for naturally thin people. Most thin people are not constantly worrying that eating is going to make ...

oolala53

Jocelyn, the beef with granola bars is that they are often touted as convenient and healthful meal replacements when they aren't. Even the "healthy" ones. Anything that is basically pseudo food that tricks you into eating more than you really need for satiety is suspect. Why do such nice grains have...

oolala53

From the National Weight Loss Registry. There they have found that it takes from 2 to 5 years before a person is not still actually at great risk for relapse. Even then, the relapse rate is 25%. Also, I know from much reading on eating disorders that those take several years to turn around. However,...

oolala53

Over43, we've got the space if you've got the time. I so agree with Reinhard about the sharing part of food, but it is a little harder when there are so many single households in the U.S now and with people working or taking classes in such a way that they are on their own. But being able to eat in ...

oolala53

Sometimes people purposely post to an old thread because they want to revive the topic. The old posters might be gone and new people may benefit.

oolala53

" I have started on it and it it turns out to be the answer to that side of the equation. I will shout it on the rooftops." I don't have all your experience, but close to it as a lay person, and I's so glad to hear you say this. OA used to preach three meals a day and life in between. It changed a l...

oolala53

I don't think I have/had exactly that, but the fact that you notice that it is in situations that have nothing to do with real hunger is significant, no? I wrote a long response but decided to send it to you separately. In short, I'll say, yes, whatever you are feeling is unpleasant, but that's all ...

oolala53

Not just No S. Any serious change in food habits. Most people are never successful making them, and I say it's normally because they try too much at once and they expect too much too soon. Compared to most diets out there, No S is the easy way. But even it is radical. But if there is anything I thin...

oolala53

rungirl, I call it random eating. That's what S days are for. Many eating disorder therapists recommend preplanning meals after an initial period of time of merely recording what is eaten, when, thoughts, circumstances. The client is the one making the choices about what to eat. Eventually, the clie...

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