Everyday Systems

finallyfull

I just read your "mountains of cake" line, and I realize that that is part of what I'm doing -- I eat more stuff on the weekends in the hope that it will cure me of any desires during the week, but it does just the opposite. I too have noticed that paying attention and asking if I really want someth...

finallyfull

I have found through repeated experience that in the evening, when my mind goes "shopping" for some little treat or drink, that I am truly satisfied with a glass of water. That is SO not me! I would not have learned this without No S. But when I feel like having something, I have learned to check in...

finallyfull

I like warm milk. It's very yummy and soothing.

I also often end my dinner with a glass of water as a mental "pushing away from the table." I find that whole "wanting more" after dinner is never hunger, so I don't like to reward the impulse by putting anything in my mouth.

finallyfull

I want to enjoy my holiday treats MINDFULLY. I want to be present and savor them and enjoy all meals and treats. And I want to decorate my calendar in green only.

finallyfull

I have long stretches of easy. Also, riding out the occasional very hard N day without going red has become easier. Does that make sense? The hard days are easier! Not because they are less hard, but because I have enough experience to know that it will most definitely pass and will be forgotten, an...

finallyfull

Thank you for replying -- sometimes I find it more helpful to hear what people hate about regular disordered eating than what's good about No S. These message boards have plenty of people struggling with the No S guidelines, but I gravitate toward diatribes on the downside of lawlessness. Sometimes ...

finallyfull

I am so glad you are sharing this, because since this is always "during" and never "after" -- one might imagine that you were done and on No S perfectly forever. I think this re-boot, hopefully, will return you to the well-dug habit. I wonder if you can reflect on what you disliked about your No S h...

finallyfull

Another milestone, for me. Had the hardest N day for some reason, in the evening. I KNEW I was full, had a big lunch and even bigger dinner, but wanted very much to eat. I also really wanted a green day. So I nurtured myself in other ways, put on some warm jammies and slippers, found a good spot and...

finallyfull

I have definitely noticed I get full, and many others have experienced this too. Once you quit eating between meals, you notice that full/empty difference more, and also you might eat more at meals because you want to be full till the next. I seriously doubt that it can make you gain more easily tho...

finallyfull

I noticed years ago that "small" people tend to order small popcorn and small drinks at the movies. Took me until last night to do the same. The result: I was perfectly satisfied! By the time it was gone, I was too into the movie to even notice.

No more giant buckets for me.

finallyfull

"experiential knowledge" -- yes, that's what I've gained this past year. I've learned lots of theoretical stuff, but never have I spent a year "watching" myself and how I operate. That's what's been great about vanilla. I have thought of and resisted tweaks (because of my experiential knowledge of m...

finallyfull

I wish I could have all of my questions (and snark) answered back so quickly! :oops: If your sugar free diet is comparable to a 1950's diet, then I apologize. I ASSumed they ate plenty of sugar, but I suppose not every cookie jar was filled and many a housewife skipped the pie in favor of cooked pea...

finallyfull

Another old catch phrase that's out of style, and I think I am getting it. I used to wait until I was hungry (okay, just not really full) in order to have a treat. I'd have it a couple hours after dinner, or mid-afternoon. I now see that this allowed me to eat my full meals, and eat full sized sweet...

finallyfull

Rea, Yes, I too was very disappointed to read that her alleged 1950's diet was actually much more strict. I love the idea of trying to mimic an earlier, more successful food culture. But I think it's disingenuous to act like that's the biggest factor when she actually DOESN'T EAT SUGAR and is probab...

finallyfull

One thing nice about these boards is we can all conduct "experiments" for each other and maybe save some time & struggles! How your wandering S events turned out is helpful for me to see, because that's why I'm holding on to vanilla. (Vanilla with an emphasis on SOMETIMES -- no more random eating on...

finallyfull

Yes, I'm wondering too?

finallyfull

I have been working to break my calorie counting habit all year. When I count, I'm on a "diet" and I not only think way more about food, but I think far less about nutrition, and even worse, I stop listening to my body and paying attention to what I need to eat to keep me feeling satisfied until an ...

finallyfull

Not that I know of, but it's possible.

finallyfull

I will be interested to see how it goes -- S events, if limited, and chosen carefully ahead of time, makes a ton of sense. In many ways, it makes more sense than my current "fill your face" weekend. I also like the idea of having an "s" when I want one, in order to maybe eliminate that subtle but po...

finallyfull

Small "wins" everywhere. Had a chance for treats last night, but remembered that the real "treat" would be to save my appetite for dinner. And it was a real treat.

My mental habits of reframing things is getting stronger. The Great American Brainwash is slowly clearing up and I'm seeing Normal.

finallyfull

I'm right with you clarebare -- I am treating myself to two Sane days this weekend. I am indulging in feeling normal and healthy and to truly savoring a dessert after dinner. I am treating myself to hunger before meals, too. That's something I greatly miss on S days, and I'm done with that! Hunger m...

finallyfull

I hear ya, but I hate the idea of changing to fit the broken culture! Those people at work probably only have one single model of normalcy, and she's about to give in! It takes superpowers to walk away from that kind of relentless crap. But you have really been a success story, so I hope that when y...

finallyfull

I don't know about "accountability" outside of our own tracking or noticing, but I am pretty sure I will die with my desire for lots of delicious food well intact. It's biological. It's up to culture to tame biology, and our melting pot has become a pot belly, and it's spreading its muffin top globa...

finallyfull

I heard a saying somewhere that there is never enough of something we don't really want. I think it was Geneen Roth, maybe. But so true. I am slowly (hopefully) coming to the realization that I need MORE satisfaction in my S days, and I am (hopefully) willing to give it to myself by eating three mea...

finallyfull

Been pretty sporadic, but I'm remembering the 14 minutes on occasion. I found myself posting this on my daily check in, but it feels like a big win, so I"m reposting it here: My meals today are scheduled around my schedule at 9, 3 and 9 -- six hours apart, which is perfect for my body, but.... at 1:...

finallyfull

My meals today are scheduled around my schedule at 9, 3 and 9 -- six hours apart, which is perfect for my body, but.... at 1:30 I was chilly, bored, stressed, tired, and hungry. I was also in the kitchen. What did I do? 14 minutes of anything! Lifted some hand weights, did a bunch of slow squats, so...

finallyfull

The note cards are great -- organized people are awesome. I might be one some day. But probably not! Donna -- YES! For me No S takes the focus OFF of food. When I'm not on it, I am always a couple hours from my next bite, and even linger around cabinets and fridge pondering what little yummy mights ...

finallyfull

That sweater fitting better is awesome! I think we might breeze too quickly past the successes and linger too long on the bumps along the way. I hate WTH -- somehow for me it often starts with NOT being hungry enough. "Oh, I'm not really hungry (I'm so "virtuous") so I'll just have a bite....." I th...

finallyfull

Mile marker: even throughout ups and downs with S days, I have come to a place where saying NO on N days is much quicker and more habit than ever before. I don't pause for a long time before saying no, I do it more quickly, in part because I have come to realize that the quicker I say no, the easier...

finallyfull

Welcome back to sanity and enjoyment!

Sorry about the foot!

finallyfull

Over43, I had the same college experience. I still aspire to have those nice notecards... But with food, I wonder if focus is needed. I bet if you know you get three plates a day, and you eat a candybar in between meals, most of the time there is a definite voice in your head that says "hey that's a...

finallyfull

I think, I hope, I hit bottom yesterday when I went to bed early because my stomach hurt. I never even ate "too much" at any one sitting, but apparently I ate enough little nothings to add up to way too much or way the wrong combo. Gross! I am not condemning or criticizing myself. I am asking myself...

finallyfull

Seconds are also my downfall. Not coincidentally, eating very quickly is my worst habit. I have found that when I remember to eat slowly (still trying!) and drink a glass of water at the table right after my meal, I can defeat that urge more frequently. Kids eating is another big challenge for me! I...

finallyfull

I took an S day too, yesterday, and did not feel good. I hope one day to get to the "have one nice dessert" mode. But for now, when my main intake consists of sugar, caffeine, white flour (also known as sugar) and more sugar, then alcohol, my body does not react by feeling calm. I have found that N ...

finallyfull

Oh -- glad I called yesterday an S day -- just eating some candy ruined my whole rhythm, I forgot to eat lunch, then ate it just before dinner, and before I knew it I ended my day eating a McDonalds McDouble just before bed, because it was there. Did not feel good at all. Lesson? S days are necessar...

finallyfull

Wow JW, I hadn't noticed your tag line before but it's great! It perfectly sums up most of the newbie questions about No S, which I totally had myself way back when. They can pretty much be summed up as: Can I continue to find ways to consistently overeat and still lose weight? Or, can I turn this i...

finallyfull

Ha! Caught myself. I was about to open the fridge and eat a hunk of cheddar cheese just for the fun of it, because I've declared it an S day, but I quickly decided that the only reason I declared this an S day was so that when candy was presented to me, I could eat it. For instance, when I'm trick o...

finallyfull

Thank you, you nice people!

Well Happy Halloween!! It's definitely an S day for me! I thought about holding my candy for the weekend, but who am I kidding.

finallyfull

Another related quirk I have found -- when I eat before I'm truly hungry -- I am LESS satisfied afterward. I think it might be that the difference in feeling from "before" to "after" is much more pronounced when I start on "empty". So if I go in very hungry, I come out feeling like "hey I feel great...

finallyfull

Back in the saddle this week with no problem at all. I don't actually think I veered very much off course, thanks to habit. But in the two days so far I have had zero problem turning down the ubiquitous halloween candy, and am feeling very peaceful about putting the boundaries back up. I am CERTAIN ...

finallyfull

I wanted to check in and see if others have found the same thing I have learned about myself -- something I never knew before No S: I used to think that if I was VERY hungry, I needed to eat a larger meal. With ten months of No S, I have discovered that, for me, no matter how hungry I am, a regular ...

finallyfull

Welcome! I love your list, too. Lists are fun. Here's my little list for you: 1. If you feel like quitting No S, just vow to make your next legal meal a doozie, within one plate. No diet head can argue with that kind of bribe! 2. Re-read the tortoise and the hare. Believe it. 3. Slowly watch yoursel...

finallyfull

I would vote for keeping it to weekends. For one thing, consistency is much more habit friendly. For another, oolala makes a good point which is basically that enjoyment and food do not necessarily have to go together, and the idea that a day with the hubby is less good if you can't snack or eat swe...

finallyfull

well I have taken a vacation from caring about moderation while grieving the loss of my dad. I made a conscious decision to focus on nurturing myself and doing whatever I feel I need to do to be comforted. Since I don't have a binge problem, it is more just eating comfort foods at whatever time I ne...

finallyfull

I believe you are healthier and happier with No S, but it must be said that you were 100% lovely both before and after. No difference in loveliness. But congrats on the healthy, sane, freeing lifestyle! It's really much better for so many reasons.

finallyfull

Valid or not, I like studies that justify my long sleeping habit. Also any studies that beef up the case for drinking wine, coffee and eating fat. Keep them coming, I say!

finallyfull

That is wonderful! Thank you for continuing to share your struggles/suggestions and support! Those are great "S"es to share.

finallyfull

Great weekend to report! On Saturday I very naturally and without any planning whatsoever ate two moderate meals! No S's at all. I just got busy after a late breakfast, and the next thing I knew it was 5 and almost dinner time. We went to a restaurant, and I ate slowly and savored my food, and when ...

finallyfull

The skillet weight distribution is fine if you hold it by both sides most of the time. And what a workout! I'm doing four minutes per N day right now, and it is definitely working my muscles! (I throw in squats, etc., while I'm doing the upper body moves.) While it is definitely going to be like bru...

finallyfull

Okay so I am the absolute wimpiest person on the planet, and I've been neglecting shovelglove (for girls), but today I started again with 4 minutes on the cast iron skillet. WOW! Four lousy minutes and I feel like I just spent an hour with a trainer. I guess it just goes to show how very little I do...

finallyfull

Wow, thanks for all the great "food for thought". I think the bottom line is, keep up with No S, and slowly work it out. Sounds about right. I love the idea of the "game" of figuring it out, rather than declaring a mod. I suppose I can also look at it as a true indicator that my N days are successfu...

finallyfull

Since being on No S (nine months) I have noticed that sometimes on S days I eat so much I am very uncomfortable. This used to happen when I was a little kid, before I learned to naturally moderate. Now it's back! Prior to No S I would snack and eat sweets, but never to the point of being overly full...

finallyfull

I gained a couple pounds the first couple months (really it was like two pounds) because I allowed myself to eat whatever I wanted within the vanilla rules. I purposely did this, knowing that if I were on a "diet" I would lose and then gain weight. Once I saw the upward trend, I took a good long loo...

finallyfull

9 months now. THREE red days last week -- too many reds lately -- I blame a spike in stress (both S's) due to unusual circumstances as well as a long weird slight sickness (S's). I refuse to sweat it. I am being gentle with myself, and that is why this time, unlike previous times, I will not "fall o...

finallyfull

Ha! Two red days, one on Friday, the next on Monday. That's what I get for bragging!! I think on both occasions I deliberately used food to calm myself. No, I don't think -- I did it. It wasn't much -- but it was ironic that it came after such a long stretch of green, green green. Mark it and move o...

finallyfull

Good point! Frequent eating with little hunger -- that about sums up me prior to No S.

finallyfull

Eight month check-in: amazing. In many ways, I'm not me! For instance, yesterday I found myself at 4:45 in the afternoon realizing I hadn't had lunch, nor was I particularly hungry!? I had a good but not over the top breakfast around 10:30. Eight months ago I would have freaked out if I had to wait ...

finallyfull

Hey, it sounds like maybe you've gotten back in touch with your appetite? I remember you were concerned about not being hungry, but you've been hungry lately.

Is this a positive thing?

finallyfull

I have found that *discipline* on N days for me means disciplining myself to NOT be on a diet. I make sure my three meals are well rounded, nutritious, full of fruits and veggies AND heavier stuff, enough to make me feel satisfied, and also taste good. When I do this, I seem to almost forget it's an...

finallyfull

It is a weird phenomenon -- I did not expect, nor do I remember reading in any of Reinhard's stuff -- but I definitely cannot eat as much at one sitting as I used to be able to. For instance, a burger and fries at a fast food place used to leave me wanting whatever my kids didn't eat (stray fries, b...

finallyfull

finallyfull

Keriamon, You are right -- I am at a healthy weight, and I cannot complain! In fact, No S has helped me to get to a very peaceful place, which really goes against all the media efforts to make me feel bad about my body. The reason I found No S in the first place was because I have, for the past few ...

finallyfull

Just a thought, since it's only 10 days -- could you fill your plates a little fuller at meals, so you are more "in touch" with how much you don't want to snack? You might even, for some private comic relief, pile your plate kind of high a few times so she will never be able to suggest you aren't ea...

finallyfull

I've been averaging a pound a month, but I'm not on a diet!

finallyfull

I love the civility on this forum. Is there some secret civility "system" at work behind the scenes that Rinehardt has implemented without us knowing. Can it be implemented elsewhere?

finallyfull

Beautiful! What a great story. Thank you for sharing it!

You are an inspiration!!

finallyfull

I think expecting lots of falling down and lots of getting back up is very normal. It's like learning to roller skate -- it takes time and trial! You will definitely get this and you will enjoy the blessings of sanity and moderation. Just try to relax yourself when you hit those bumps. I agree that ...

finallyfull

JW said: "Little odds and ends of random sweet stuff just tease you -- they add up, but they don't ever make you really feel you've gotten what you want, so cravings kick in." That about sums up the whole point for me. I'm still doing it on S days because "I can" but the reason I go back 7 times for...

finallyfull

Blithe Morning -- genius! A big fat decadent PLANNED treat. Over the top. Exactly the opposite of what most people not on No S would think. When we know we CAN have it, and we DO have it, we can slowly kill the diet head and allow the body to find it's balance. But over time. The long-timer vanillas...

finallyfull

Thank you so much for continuing to post! You will help many people, including me, to believe that sanity is actually a good idea.

finallyfull

Joasia -- your tag line is: The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin. What is your "destiny" and that of your nation? Is it the destiny of not tending important emotions? Is it the destiny of fear, non acceptance, self-punishment, guil...

finallyfull

Wosnes said "I think we all know exactly what we need to do. It's just that we want to continue what we've been doing and get different results." This is so true! I have to regularly fight not to turn this into a diet, because I KNOW if I do that I will fool myself into thinking I'll get different r...

finallyfull

As you said "This is my time of year and I am not going to muck it up with processed junk!" -- I love that. It's like reading great books. Yes, it's fun to read the page-turning fluffy stuff, and you should, sometimes. But when you delve into the heartier stuff, it's so satisfying and actually stays...

finallyfull

If this is truly just a long meal, that's wonderful. If, however, you're thinking "ok this one plate of food is my allotment" and you eat it all afternoon or come and go back to the plate throughout an evening, then it could be more like snacking. I'm assuming you just meant sitting down to a long m...

finallyfull

I went to a conference about a month ago that had super ginormous rolls, donuts, fruits, dips, cheeses -- a total glut of delicious offerings, for eating BETWEEN MEALS. And most of the people heartily partook. The reason I mention this is that I had zero problem not having any, and I actually found ...

finallyfull

Annie, Sorry -- that must have stung. It is worth noting that lo and behold, a thin person knows when she's full. I have been grappling for awhile now with the truly head-scratching thought that I do not know when I'm full. (despite my screen name!). I am not one of those "20 minute" people who feel...

finallyfull

First time in many months that I had a big distracting hankering for food between meals yesterday! I came out green, but I have not felt that in a long time. I think it was from two possible causes: one, I had only two meals the day before, effortlessly, but maybe my body was trying to make up for l...

finallyfull

I haven't checked the shovelglove site in a year probably (because I've been a supersloth, as usual, lifting only books and coffee), but I really want to be reasonably strong, and lo and behold, my skillet idea is alive. I'm taking it as a sign that I need to pick up Shovelglove on my N Days (but wi...

finallyfull

Thank you for posting and congrats!! Very impressive - especially the five year part! Have you been on No S that whole time?

I love further proof that diets don't work (even when they seem to work in the short term) but that No S makes it to the finish line.

finallyfull

Wow wonderful!

finallyfull

Christine you are too hard on yourself! Everyone likes to come home and relax. I doubt you "need" to feel those negative feelings to feel alive. I think you are just tired of trying so hard on diets, and, as oolala aptly notes, the "thin machine" takes its toll. I think you may have "scale sickness....

finallyfull

Thanks Annie! While I really believe and work to not judge people, I do employ it humorously as a defense against bad habits. So instead of being jealous of someone for having a big ice cream cone on Wednesday, I quietly and without malice, mock it to myself. (lookie here, people on planet chub actu...

finallyfull

Hey JW, turns out your I Ching quote makes my point better than I did. Never try to "not think of a pink elephant" because it only makes you think about a pink elephant. Instead, think of a grey wolf, or something else. I have thankfully moved from "trying not to eat" to "doing something else". But ...

finallyfull

Brush your teeth, use mouthwash, or chew gum, or do 15 push ups, go for a quick walk, call a friend, stay the heck out of the kitchen, break room, food area, sanctimoniously judge other snackers, pray for the starving, think gratefully about your last meal, vow to have a nicer dinner, tickle a baby,...

finallyfull

oolala, I find it fascinating that you've had a 19 hour fast that "kind of came on by itself" -- yet when you did it on purpose, when it didn't feel right, the pendulum swung back on you. I would imagine that 19 hours is probably plenty, and only when your body is ready. ?

finallyfull

Two meals yesterday, was without any effort at all, and fit my day much better. Zero hunger in the 8 hours in between. I can see that this will fit my schedule better on some days, and kind of frees me up. Gave up milk in my coffee last week as an experiment, too. I wouldn't stop drinking coffee eve...

finallyfull

Yes -- it's the pendulum. What has kept me mostly green for all these months is that I work hard not to push that pendulum, because I am 100% convinced it will always swing back. I am aiming to keep it at a motion-free balance. No pushing. If I accept it, it could move to a different resting spot on...

finallyfull

Emily -- good point! I think you are probably right about everyone wanting megafood because nobody's hungry. That would be funnier if it weren't true. I almost didn't notice until I saw this thread that I now rarely think about getting seconds! It used to be one of my biggest challenges. For years I...

finallyfull

For me snacking has slowly fallen by the wayside on S days, and so has having seconds. I think the reason we "can" have them is so No S never becomes a restrictive diet, so we won't rebel. I occasionally have a snack just to revisit the pleasure of that bad habit (it spoils my appetite, adds empty c...

finallyfull

I love that you are remaining curious instead of anxious. I think that made a big difference for me, too. I consider No S a very good teacher when I'm not using it as a diet. I wonder about your issue (can't spell dilemna). You are not hungry enough to enjoy eating meals, or to get the reward of app...

finallyfull

Thank you, you nice people! I notice this change in myself, which occurred through sticking with habit: A long, slow change. When I started No S, saying "No" to a sweet, snack, or second, involved a kind of long decision, longing, thinking about it, and then a slightly painful act of will. I would s...

finallyfull

Yes -- exactly. It. Is. Crazy. Out. There. That's more my point than the whole feeling weird about being on here and thinking about food. It's beyond that. The reason I'm drawn here is that it is such a relief to discuss the issue without having to "deprogram" a person first! I know others will disa...

finallyfull

Want to mark this for my future perusal: the other day I "naturally" had two meals, because I followed my hunger, and because 7 months of no s has taught me that not eating for a few hours is truly, truly, truly NO BIG DEAL. And it wasn't! I had a late breakfast at like 10:30 because that's when I w...

finallyfull

I have been reading and/or posting to this site for several years, and feeling a little weird about it all along, because I feel strongly that I want to focus my life on deeper things than eating and weight. BUT! Today I realize that it's because on here, many people seem to understand and embrace t...

finallyfull

I have found that I am totally flexible on dinnertime now, so I can eat with my husband late sometimes, no problem. Previously I was kind of pushy about getting to eat early. :oops: So not only do I get to eat at 3 without it being a "snack" -- but I am free to eat dinner whenever it's convenient. t...

finallyfull

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Welcome Annie! This is a very supportive group. This is a wonderful long-term lifestyle that absolutely short-circuits the yoyo mentality and leads to normal eating over time, and peace of mind.

finallyfull

I wait till I'm hungry for breakfast, which means I usually eat at about 10 a.m., 3 p.m., and 7 p.m. This has actually done wonders for my snacking habit, because my most common snack-attacks came at -- you guessed it, mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and evening. Now I am either waiting for a meal at th...

finallyfull

About 7 months now (never sure of the starting date). Almost completely automatic! So easy! Not only on N days, but carrying over to S days. I've had windows of slight difficulty, but I tried to just let it roll past, and it did. I love the daily rhythm of three moderate meals. Seven months since a ...

finallyfull

I don't think it's mean at all -- but it might be impossible. You are right, diet head is hard to compete with. So we can tell them, but it's like having a whole new group of first graders come in for the first time each year -- they need to learn to read first, then move on to whatever. I guess lea...

Everyday Systems

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Save Room for Dessert

portion size

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shameful question

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cultural change