New No S-er, question about kids

ABooth · Post by **ABooth** » Sat May 17, 2014 11:10 pm

Hi All, I've been no s-ing for a little over a week now, although I've known about it for years. Going well, with just a few blips so far.

Just before this I was trying to use intuitive eating for weight loss but although I allowed myself to get hungry, I would eat anytime which messed up my appetite for real meals and did not result in losing any weight. I like No S for the structure but the freedom to choose nearly anything to eat during the week.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone has extended No S to their kids even moderately. My almost five year old daughter is a very erratic eater and it's inconvenient for me to accommodate her, especially since I'd rather not be in the kitchen near the food all day long. She is not much of a breakfast eater, so gets hungry mid morning for a snack. I want to feed her if she's hungry and if she's in danger of fainting (I have had several episodes as a child and adult with fainting) but I don't want her constantly snacking in order to keep her appetite for meals and because she'll be starting school in August and will be on a schedule there.

I have already started limiting the kids' treats during the week, it was getting out of hand with a dessert after every meal plus maybe a sweeter snack in the afternoon. I also have a just turned 2 son.

automatedeating · Post by **automatedeating** » Sat May 17, 2014 11:36 pm

Absolutely! This has been a wonderful side effect of NoSing: my whole family snacks less.

The way it applies to my kids (ages 8 and 5) is this: mealtime is mealtime and then the kitchen closes. At 3:00 or 3:30 they can have a snack. I recently stocked a freezer drawer with frozen yogurts, otter pops, and fruit popsicles. I stocked a fridge drawer with regular yogurts, clementines, and string cheeses. At snack time, I also slice up an apple if they want. I don't limit how much they eat at snacktime (at this point, anyway) because they usually just have one or two items, and then are done. As long as see them still eating a regular-sized dinner, I figure they didn't overdo it at snacktime.

The kids have a dessert almost every night after dinner: ice cream, otter pop, chocolate, etc.

So, to summarize, NoS has brought structure to the way that I feed my children. They still have a daily snack and an almost-daily dessert, but it is all part of our routine. Overall, my whole family eats better at our mealtimes thanks to NoS.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sun May 18, 2014 12:59 am

You might want to read French Kids Eat Everything by Karen Le Billon or check her web site karenlebillon.com. She has a new book and companion web site Getting to Yum and gettingtoyum.com

I think it was she who wrote you decide what and when your child eats; they decide IF they're going to eat. If not, they wait until the next meal. They won't starve.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun May 18, 2014 9:19 pm

Ellyn Satter wrote of saying when and what kids eat; they decide how much. She emphasized that eating time should be eating time. Kids sit down and concentrate on the food. No carrying around food and eating it while playing or other activities.

French children eat only one snack a day, around 4 p.m. They eat dinner later than we do, more like 7 or 8, and it's the last real event of the day. I don't know if they start school as early as some schools do here, though. But certainly, eating every hour or even two hours is not necessary for humans.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sun May 18, 2014 9:27 pm

oolala53 wrote:I don't know if they start school as early as some schools do here, though. But certainly, eating every hour or even two hours is not necessary for humans.

I think children in France start the school day about 8 or 8:30, but they are in school until about 4:30.

MamieTamar · Post by **MamieTamar** » Mon May 19, 2014 8:09 am

wosnes wrote:
oolala53 wrote:I don't know if they start school as early as some schools do here, though. But certainly, eating every hour or even two hours is not necessary for humans.
I think children in France start the school day about 8 or 8:30, but they are in school until about 4:30.

That's in the smaller classes, but some of my teenage granddaughters start school at 8, until 6 pm. They aren't back home until sevenish, so of course they need an afternoon snack !

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:46 am

I read the Karen Le Billon book and enjoyed it. She obviously did a lot o reading on the subject too. I no longer have the book, but I'd recommend it.

However, I'm a working single parent, and especially when my son was little, my time with him in the evening was very limited. I love the idea of "slow" cooking and eating three or more courses, but there literally wasn't enough time to do that. Sometimes there would be an hour or less to get him fed, washed and ready for bed whilst trying to fit in some quality time. I ended up cooking simple, one-course meals every night.

Even now, time spent in the kitchen, is time being anti-social! (Partly due to the layout of my house - I would love to have a kitchen where people could congregate and chat). So I still tend to go for simpler, one-course food, and because I didn't have time for deserts in the past, I've got out of the habit of serving them and hardly ever do. (So I suppose I ended up inadvertently doing something closer to No S than to Karen le Billon).

I also think that if children are having lunch at, say, 12pm, and a late evening meal, it's a very long time for them to go between meals. I prefer the approach of having an extra meal or snack in the late afternoon.

However, my son did tend to have set mealtimes, because of our situation, and had proper cooked lunches at school (with a pudding).

I'm finding it much harder dealing with a teenager's eating, as it's now his choice, not mine! ABooth, I know where you're coming from though, as the hardest part has ALWAYS been breakfast. My son has never been hungry in the early mornings and really struggles to eat. At the moment what he usually does is eat "breakfast" a bit later in the day, when he's been up for a while. When he was younger, I tried all sorts of things, including at one point letting him have whatever he wanted for breakfast as long as he ate something (we had a few days of icecream, then ham and strawberries, I remember!). I appreciate that he finds it difficult and I actually think that what he's doing now suits him better and is fine. If he had drunk milk when he was little, I think it would have been helpful for him to have glass of milk early on and then have his breakfast a bit later (his nursery and primary school did provide breakfast, but I know they don't all do that. I don't know if that would work for your daughter?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Mon May 19, 2014 10:45 am

Dale wrote:I read the Karen Le Billon book and enjoyed it. She obviously did a lot o reading on the subject too. I no longer have the book, but I'd recommend it.

However, I'm a working single parent, and especially when my son was little, my time with him in the evening was very limited. I love the idea of "slow" cooking and eating three or more courses, but there literally wasn't enough time to do that. Sometimes there would be an hour or less to get him fed, washed and ready for bed whilst trying to fit in some quality time. I ended up cooking simple, one-course meals every night.

I don't think the point of Le Billon's book is that we should eat three or four course meals like the French, but that we should train our kids to eat what they are served. Hopefully we'll also teach them to like a wide variety of foods. A other goal would be to get them out of the random snacking habit.

I've never been much of a breakfast eater. I have to be up for several hours before food is at all tempting. Usually l don't eat until lunch. This has been my habit since elementary school and I'm 65 now.

By the way, I think the time doing the regular, routine stuff with our kids is the quality time.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Mon May 19, 2014 10:49 am

MamieTamar wrote:
wosnes wrote:
oolala53 wrote:I don't know if they start school as early as some schools do here, though. But certainly, eating every hour or even two hours is not necessary for humans.
I think children in France start the school day about 8 or 8:30, but they are in school until about 4:30.
That's in the smaller classes, but some of my teenage granddaughters start school at 8, until 6 pm. They aren't back home until sevenish, so of course they need an afternoon snack !

Even the shorter day is longer than our kids are in class!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon May 19, 2014 8:18 pm

My understanding is that French students have a 2-hour break in the middle of the day: an hour to eat and an hour to play.

I can tell you from the perspective of a high school teacher: the admin plans as little time outside of class as possible because the more time students are not in class, the more trouble they get into.

I also teach in southern California. Only a fraction of students eat sitting down in a cafeteria. The majority of them eat outside, standing up, mostly by their own choice.

ironchef · Post by **ironchef** » Tue May 20, 2014 6:32 am

My son will be 2 soon. He eats breakfast (7am), early lunch/morning meal (11am), a small afternoon snack of fruit and/or yoghurt after napping (3ish) and dinner (6pm). The only time I offer a snack is after swimming lessons (mid morning on Tuesdays). He's been on this as a typical routine since he was about 1. He has water any time of course.

He's fine. If a 2 year old can deal with that schedule, I'm sure a healthy 5 year old can wait for meals as well.

I used to faint quite often as a child and teenager. It was to do with low blood pressure, it had nothing to do with food or blood sugar.

MamieTamar · Post by **MamieTamar** » Tue May 20, 2014 8:00 am

oolala53 wrote:My understanding is that French students have a 2-hour break in the middle of the day: an hour to eat and an hour to play.

Yes, this is exactly what I was planning to add. In school, I have always had 2 hours at midday, which was enough to go back home (a 40 mn underground drive), have lunch with my parents and be back for the afternoon classes. This was the normal schedule for most kids, very few ate at school.

But my mother, with the best intentions, made a bad mistake. She knew I had overweight genes, like herself, her mother and her grandmother. But very little was known at the time about overweight management, and to protect me from becoming worse, she forbade me sweets, chocolate and cakes during the week (it was OK in moderation on Sundays), same as she forbade them to herself, but without any explaining. To make matters worse, my father and brother, who were naturally lean, could have them when they wanted. The first result was that I grew up with a notion in the back of my mind that men were allowed good things but women were not. The second and worse one was that I used my pocket money to buy forbidden items, but as I has to sit down as well to 3 meals a day with the family, I naturally grew fatter.

In that context, I want to make a point which won't be popular here. When I look back on my life, the periods when I was most overweight were those when I led a normal family life, first with my parents, and much much later (I married very late) with my husband and his children. In the interim, the more than 2 decades when I lived alone, I managed my weight rather well. Moderation was of course out of the question. I binged and binged (less than American women though, based of everything I've read on American blogs and forums), but then I could at leisure wait until I was hungry again until I ate again. So yes, I alternated drastic dieting and bingeing, as most of us, but the tendency was rather downwards. In those years, I did not know what a "meal" was, or what a "meal hour" was. The overall result was that I overate rather less...

Now that I'm tied to a family, I have of course to find the moderation path, but it is neither easy nor spontaneous.