Two bad habits when eating.

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Skelton
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Two bad habits when eating.

Post by Skelton » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:21 am

I'm on No S reboot # 567. Actually I'm kidding about 567 which is an exaggeration, but basically I'm back again. I'm starting with the basics and am on my first 21 day challenge.
I live alone, and approximately 99% pf my eating is done alone.

I've noticed that I'm eating too quickly. I was wondering how those of you who also ate too quickly dealt with this at the very start of followng No S?

Is it best to start now to slow down my eating, while I'm getting my basic 3 plates habit in place, or should I wait until I've got the 3 plates down successfully and then focus on slowing down my eating speed?

Also I'm interested to hear what your opinions are about not doing anything else while eating. I read advice over and over that we shouldn't watch tv or be on the computer etc during a meal. I find this difficult, just sitting at the table on my own and doing nothing else but eating. It seems odd to me, for example if we're eating with other people, we will be conversing whilst eating. I never see advice that suggests we shouldn't have a conversation while we're eating, and nobody would want to take that advice, but all the time see this stuff about the tv, or even not to read when eating.
Thoughts?
"We stop looking for the better diet and start looking for a better life." pangelsue

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:57 am

One of the good things I read here early on was not to try to "fix" everything about your eating all at once. I'd get vanilla No S firmly on track for a few months before I bothered with other stuff.

As for eating fast or while doing other things, well, that sounds very nice in theory, but life and my toddler often intrude! If I had to only eat when I could do it slowly and with no distractions, I'd probably eat 2 meals a week!

I think a lot of the advice about slowing down and not getting distracted is to avoid overeating without noticing. But with No S, I already avoided overeating when I served myself a single plate. When the plate is done, I'm done, whether I "noticed" or not.

germanherman
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Post by germanherman » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:11 pm

It took me some attempts to “get†the no s diet- habit.

I’m pretty sure, the main reason it stuck with me was the fact, that I combined it with the habit of slow-eating. Right now I got 6 everyday-systems (or habits) i use, but i started with only two: NO S and Tachew (= Taste+Chew)

And the second one made the first one easier. My system of slow eating based on a method my grandfather used to survive as a POW in the Sowjetunion after World War II. After that he ate always slow for the rest of his life.

Because the scarcity of food, the POW chewed every bite until it was fully liquefied and had gave up all its taste. They reached up to several hundred chews per bite. And they were satisfied (regarding hunger) with a very small amount of food. Furthermore they endured the hard labor.

Somehow I remembered that story when i became older, lazy and fat. After some trys with different diets, that all ended with binging I became obsessed with that idea. I researched and found some Horace Fletcher ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Fletcher ) , who published a way of eating where every bite should be chewed 100 times before swallowed.

He died more than twenty years before my Grandfahter became a POW, but i can imagine, how the way of eating found it’s way in that sowjet gulag.

But back to topic:

Here is how I learned to eat slow:
1. I put some hard and natural piece of food (Like an apple, or some quality bread, a carrot etc.) in every meal I ate.

2. Every bite I took of the piece I set a goal of how many chews I would spend on it, starting with the first bite and between 40-50 chews.

3. After taking a bite I put my hand down on and fully concentrated on the bite and its taste.

4. I counted every chew until I reached the goal and swallowed the bite if it was liquefied and is had “tasted out†most or all of its taste.

5. I tried to increase the number of chews every bite and kept counting.

6. The rest of the meal I ate normal, but “normal†soon became chewing that food a lot too.

I reached up to 200 chews per bite! The counting kept me focused on the chewing and I stopped watching TV or doing anything else. It was a lot like meditation.

After around two weeks the chewing was a habit, I didn’t counted anymore. I couldn’t swallow food fast of forcefully anymore. I had to chew it up, till it poured down itself in my stomach.

It is hard to describe but I hope you get the picture.

The perks were/are:

- I ate a whole lot less, sometimes didn’t even finished my single plates, but still weren’t overly hungry between meals.

- My energy-levels spiked!

- I grew healthier! The pre-digestion in the mouth seems to lead to an better absorption of the nutrients in the food, while taking less calories.

- Several problems I had with my stomach for years disappeared.

- Simple food (Bread, cheese, veggies, Eggs, Fish) tasted so much better! The longer I chewed the better it tasted.

There are a lot more perks, but let’s say, by just changing the way I eat (the process itself) I did myself a world of good.

No S change the timing and the amount of my eating, Tachew changed the eating itself. I enjoy the taste of food (and most liquids except water) so much more today.

Every bite is like a feast and I try to get every nuance of taste out of it. Because of that I tend to be quite while i’m eating, but at the same time I’m highly focused.

A woman I recently had a nice dinner with, called me a great listener... :wink:

Sorry for the wall of text, but slow-eating had such a huge impact on my life, it’s a passion of mine.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

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wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:31 pm

Like you I'm single and eat 99% of my meals alone. The only time I don't read or watch TV while eating is when I eat with others. I have no intention of changing this habit, especially since I don't think it affects how much I eat. I'm not a quick eater at any time.

Get the 3 plates habit down before attempting the change any other habits.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

vmsurbat
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Post by vmsurbat » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:28 am

I agree with the others that getting down NoS habits ought to be your first and foremost goal. And Vanilla NoS nips eating too much without noticing when watching tv or reading while enjoying a meal.

However, I have found, like Germanherman, many other benefits to eating slowly and mindfully and am slowly evolving my habits to include what I call: SOS: Serve, Observe, Savor.

Serve--mindfully, particularly not too-large portions even if they fit on a single plate. (I've started to feel stuffed when eating my "normal" amounts due to dratted hormone changes).

Observe--training myself to notice what is on the plate, how yummy it looks, how abundant and nourishing. This helps me to not feel deprived by my current need to reduce portion sizes mentioned above!

Savor: I don't count bites because that sucks the joy of a good meal (for me). Rather, I semi-pretend to be a food critic and concentrate on all the flavors and textures, ie. savor my food. I try to remember to put my fork down occasionally. All this helps me to really enjoy my meal.

Now, the honest truth is that usually only one meal a day gets the SOS treatment because life is busy and I enjoy a good book at meal time as well. But, especially when I've put effort into prepping a delicious meal, I like to follow my new SOS habits (which do trickle over) and make the meal the centerpiece of my dining experience (which makes another chapter or two in a good book "dessert"!) :)
Vicki in MNE
7! Yrs. with Vanilla NoS, down 55+lb, happily maintaining and still loving it!

eschano
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Post by eschano » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:55 am

I think savouring food is the best advice that so many here have given in one form or another. I find it much easier to enjoy my food when in company but I also have lots of meals alone and I forget to savour it if the TV is on because I'm too distracted. In a conversation you can talk about the actual food in front of you which savours it more so when I'm alone I made a point about thinking about the food I'm eating, like having a conversation with myself (silently haha). That makes me enjoy it more. And this way you automatically eat more slowly.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again July 2018

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:41 pm

germanherman wrote:It took me some attempts to “get†the no s diet- habit.
I’m pretty sure, the main reason it stuck with me was the fact, that I combined it with the habit of slow-eating. Right now I got 6 everyday-systems (or habits) i use, but i started with only two: NO S and Tachew (= Taste+Chew)
Germanherman, I am glad NoS combined with Tachew has worked and is working so well for you!
I also have been eating slow the Fletcher way, combining it with NoS, eating 2 or 3 meals. I have been doing this Tachew style chewing, as you say, for 6 days and have experienced some not so pleasant things (besides several good ones). I lost 2.5 kilos! during this time because I eat much less, have trouble sleeping, probably because of the sudden weight loss; have some problems with weakness and daily regularity, if you know what I mean. I am positive the weight loss would slow down eventually. Maybe I need to allow my body to ease into this new way of chewing. I have started from day one to chew 60-100 times or even more, depending on the type of food.
Otherwise I think combining NoS with Tachew is also the solution for me.
Eating slow and chewing well is healthy for everybody. Even M. Gandhi said to chew your liquids and drink your food, however extreme this may sound to some people.
Have you had similar experiences with Tachew, or do you know of someone who has? Any suggestions? I am pretty confused and frustrated at the moment.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
______________
h

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Over43
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Post by Over43 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:01 pm

Norman Walker, the 20th Century juicing guru (sorry Jay Kordich), advised chewing your juice after you juiced fruits and vegetables.
April 4, 2016 197

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I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79

germanherman
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Post by germanherman » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:20 pm

heatherhikes wrote: Germanherman, I am glad NoS combined with Tachew has worked and is working so well for you!
I also have been eating slow the Fletcher way, combining it with NoS, eating 2 or 3 meals. I have been doing this Tachew style chewing, as you say, for 6 days and have experienced some not so pleasant things (besides several good ones). I lost 2.5 kilos! during this time because I eat much less, have trouble sleeping, probably because of the sudden weight loss; have some problems with weakness and daily regularity, if you know what I mean. I am positive the weight loss would slow down eventually. Maybe I need to allow my body to ease into this new way of chewing. I have started from day one to chew 60-100 times or even more, depending on the type of food.
Otherwise I think combining NoS with Tachew is also the solution for me.
Eating slow and chewing well is healthy for everybody. Even M. Gandhi said to chew your liquids and drink your food, however extreme this may sound to some people.
Have you had similar experiences with Tachew, or do you know of someone who has? Any suggestions? I am pretty confused and frustrated at the moment.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
______________
h
Hello heatherhikes,
all i can say about Tachewing comes from experience! I’m not a doctor!

For myself there was a transition-phase of about two weeks. In that time my metabolism seem to have changed towards a lower caloric intake and my digestion “cleaned upâ€. But I never felt any real discomfort, except the lighter sleep for said two weeks. For the first 10 Weeks i lost an average 2 Kg (4.4 pounds) per week.

A female friend of mine tried to adopt the combination of No S diet + Tachew and had a lot more troubles with it.

She suffered from:
- Extreme weightloss (way over 2 Kg per week)
- Fatigue
- Delayed period
- Sometimes dizziness
- Weakness

I suspected that the way too fast weightloss may have been the reason, so we changed some of the circumstances:

1. That may be the greatest change: She had to forget every former diet-principle. She was still eating like the used to from her former diets. The greatest problem was her low-carb eating! This diet is absolute anti-low carb, at least in the beginning. She added thing like bread, rice, potatoes, corn and alike to every meal and felt better.

2. She tended to skip one meal because she wasn’t hungry in the morning (and she wanted to lose faster). As recommended she added at least one mere yoghurt every morning. It helped too.

3. No more obsessing about borderline food! The small amount of sweet in the meals isn’t a problem.

Now we are reaching the realm of hearsay, but one of her friend just adapted Tachew first and ate only when hungry, but without any rules regarding structured meals or kind of food. She lost weight too and only adapted a No S diet-eating style later.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:22 pm

germanherman wrote:i started with only two: NO S and Tachew (= Taste+Chew)
And the second one made the first one easier. My system of slow eating based on a method my grandfather used to survive as a POW in the Sowjetunion after World War II. After that he ate always slow for the rest of his life.
BTW germanherman, my father, not my grandpa, (I'm older than you, I would think) was also a POW in Russia after WW II. He barely survived at the time.

Many, many thanks for your detailed information in answer to my questions a few days ago! Really helped and confirmed some of my thoughts about the problems.

I hike regularly in our hills nearby and that intensified the weakness; made me feel weak and worn out.
As with you, keeping up with NoS is easier for me when I also do the Taste-Chew bit as I eat, but I need to be careful to transition more slowly, also keeping in mind that I exercise strenuously. Again and again, bottom line is the amount of calories we take in/use up.

The structure of NoS is real helpful to me; I am not willing to give that up while tasting-chewing at the same time...just sayin'...Done the "right" way both things should work well together, actually complement each other, imho.
I'm glad that my habit of snacking has ceased, for the most part; not willing to give that up now. :wink:

How are you doing with the NoS way of eating and Tachew these days? Are you still losing weight, and do you exercise regularly (aerobic, weight-lifting, etc.)? NoS and Tachew together are great, aren't they? Actually, I believe it's THE solution. Well, at least for me.
You probably came across Jürgen Schilling's book "Kau Dich gesund!" (chew yourself healthy) and his website, including various clinical studies and whatnot. Interesting.
Thx again! :)
_________
h

germanherman
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Post by germanherman » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:41 pm

heatherhikes wrote: How are you doing with the NoS way of eating and Tachew these days? Are you still losing weight, and do you exercise regularly (aerobic, weight-lifting, etc.)? NoS and Tachew together are great, aren't they? Actually, I believe it's THE solution. Well, at least for me.
You probably came across Jürgen Schilling's book "Kau Dich gesund!" (chew yourself healthy) and his website, including various clinical studies and whatnot. Interesting.
Thx again! :)
_________
h
Hello Heather,

i believe everyone surviving the gulags in Russia was lucky and strong in so many impressive ways.

Long cardio-workouts are the ones, you feel the transition the most. But from a personal experience: it gets better pretty fast.

Right now, i'm pretty firm in my three-meals a day structure. I tend to allow a sweet meal once in a while (i love pancakes sometimes) but at the same time of my S-Days are pretty "harmless" these days. A can of soda, maybe a chocolate-bar or a second portion in a family meal, but most of the times S-Days are like N-days.

I still combining No S with Tachew. I don't want to drop any of my actual habits but i allow something that i call "Supplementing the effort". When i do hard or very taxing workouts, i allow some additional "fuel" around it. Some fruitjuice before a long run, or a protein-shake with calories before/during/or after a workout. I separate them from meals, i take them as part of the training, like putting on gym-clothes or preparing the timer.

Truth to be told, i have to do that, otherwise i tend to lose some of my added muscle weight, which i rather avoid to lose. There's not much fat left so the body tends to "cannibalize" the muscles very fast... Without this additions i slim down too much for my taste (very lithe muscule-tone, bodyfat under 5%) and can't train hard when i want to. I try to avoid classic fat-loss training, like prolonged cardio-sessions over a long time.

The everyday systems transformed me from a former sloth to someone who is pretty active. Most of the time i do sports for fun, like martial arts or swimming or running, but the only regular things are "25 minutes of anything" (bodyweight and free weight training) and a kind Urban Rangering (with some biking mixed in). That's what i do on a daily basis and on some days i do "more".

While i researched the fletcherism i stumbled upon "Kau dich gesund" from Jürgen Schilling. I have to admit, that i still haven't read the book, but i copied his name for the system. He calls is "Schmauen" (Schmecken+Kauen) i simply translated that, because i like the combination. I think i will read the book in my next vacation it's always nice to get another perspective.

I wish you good luck with adapting to the combination of No S and slow eating and hope you succeed with it. It is the best system for myself, but everybody must see for themselves if it works for them.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

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oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:33 pm

Skelton, where are you?

I eat more slowly than my peers, but I rarely count the chews. I took the advice from decades ago of Bernard Jensen, a "health" advocate who said chew your juice and drink your food, meaning, as one other poster said, chew solid food until it is very liquid.

I live alone and almost always have some other activity I do while I eat, but I am so used to "drinking" my food that my meals tend to last 20-30 minutes. Sometimes I even stop eating to pay more attention to the other activity! I have even stopped to reheat my hot food because it took so long to eat. Small problem.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
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There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

osoniye
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Post by osoniye » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:47 pm

Hi germanherman- Thanks for sharing about your grandfather's experience. A technical question- for the Tachew in the gulags style of eating, do you just keep chewing the liquid in your mouth until everything is masticated, or can you swallow the liquified stuff and keep chewing the solid stuff from that mouthful? I can't believe I find something so simple sounding to be so complicated...
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:55 pm

germanherman wrote:...I wish you good luck with adapting to the combination of No S and slow eating and hope you succeed with it. It is the best system for myself, but everybody must see for themselves if it works for them.
I appreciate your detailed information. Your posts have helped much.
NoS together with tachew or fletcherizing, or whatever you want to call it, make things so much easier on the way to get back to normal eating...one change at a time.
Best wishes for the future :!:
__________
h

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:10 pm

oolala53 wrote:I eat more slowly than my peers, but I rarely count the chews... I live alone and almost always have some other activity I do while I eat, but I am so used to "drinking" my food that my meals tend to last 20-30 minutes. Sometimes I even stop eating to pay more attention to the other activity! I have even stopped to reheat my hot food because it took so long to eat. Small problem.
Thanks for posting about the taste-chew subject. The fact that you also reheat your food at times helps me to realize that some other folk deal with this. I'd rather reheat...
________
h

germanherman
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Post by germanherman » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:54 am

osoniye wrote:Hi germanherman- Thanks for sharing about your grandfather's experience. A technical question- for the Tachew in the gulags style of eating, do you just keep chewing the liquid in your mouth until everything is masticated, or can you swallow the liquified stuff and keep chewing the solid stuff from that mouthful? I can't believe I find something so simple sounding to be so complicated...
"The gulags style of eating" doesn't sound like someone could sell this diet i guess. :lol:

If something is liquified you can and should swallow it, while chewing the more solid stuff. My tongue seems to be trained in that way, that the liquids "rinse" down the throat, while the still-solid food is always pushed back towards the teeth. The whole process is 100% subconscious. Like olala53 i don't count the chews anymore (i only did that for the first two weeks of this eating style to make it a habit). The whole process is mostly guided by the taste of the food.

I just tried to watch myself while eating a nice piece of rye-bread at breakfast.

I chewed a bite around 20-30 times and in one chewing-movement i "swallowed" (no real "gulping"-effort, more like a natural flow) some of the liquified parts, without thinking about it, while still chewing and tongue-pressing the more solid parts. I chewed that bite around 150 times until there was everything tasted out. It feels funny to watch myself and still try to act naturally. :oops:
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

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