Newcomer needs help with diet anxiety

[Common Sense M]

Hello everyone,

I am a newcomer here. I have been aware of No S for two or three years, but only recently realized that this is where I need to be. I have been trying to get away from dieting for about a year.

My problem is that I cannot seem to get 'diet chatter' out of my head. It makes me really unhappy, takes up valuable time, is terrible for my family life ('Dad, Mom's in the bathroom with her iPad again!') and is also an obstacle to my commitment to 'normal eating'. But I don't know how to make it stop.

On any given day, I will have multiple conversations with myself that go something like this:

Chard is awesome because it has antioxidants!
But chard is bad because it has goiterogens and oxalates.
But goiterogens aren't a problems if you get enough iodine.
But my family has a history of kidney stones, which makes oxalates a danger.
And didn't that one raw vegan I know develop thyroid tumors?

Grains are bad because they are high glycemic and have anti-nutrients.
But the anti-nutrients go away if you sourdough them and isn't most of the world staying slim on grains?
But no one in Europe makes real sourdough anymore and maybe I'm a special case because there is diabetes in my family.

Fish are good because they have essential fatty acids.
But fish are bad because they contain pollutants like mercury.
But the selenium in fish might mitigate the harmful mercury.
But that study was funded by a fishing lobby.
But even so, wouldn't all of Japan have mercury poisoning if it were true?

It's exhausting, stressful, and futile. I've learned all these neat things like how livestock feeding practices affect their fatty acid profile, what Kitavans eat for lunch, how glycine in offal balances out methionine in steak, and how your probablility of developing metabolic syndrome goes up as your number of amylase gene copies goes down. But as my knowledge grows, so does my confusion and anxiety until I feel lost in a forest of apparent paradoxes.

From what I've read, I am under the impression that several active posters here have struggled with this and overcome it. Please, do you have any advice?

[Marianna]

the name for this fear of food is Orthorexia, and I definitely have it. I have been addicted to reading sites like Marks Daily Apple and other sites that have terrorized me about certain foods. While I am not going to ignore certain warnings, I am sick and tired of being paranoid about my food. This is why I keep coming back to NoS. although I have certain foods I have to avoid, I need diet sanity and to eat the way my grandparents did, three times a day, whole foods, and without fear. Recently I found myself avoiding nuts because of the amount of PUFA. Madness!!! A few nuts are sustaining and satisfying.

My new rule is not to be afraid of any whole food and to pay attention to what my body tells me, not to what someone on the internet tells me!

[Jibaholic]

Just bear in mind the wisdom of XKCD when you read sites like Mark's Daily Apple (which is good site)

[Healthiermum]

No help here but thought I would let you know I'm in the same boat. I think we just need to stop searching these things as its just going to stress us out more which is what we are trying to avoid with this eating plan

[ironchef]

Before No S, I was too far in the "orthodox" direction, although I wouldn't label it orthorexia. My cousin is orthorexic and is dangerously underweight and under nourished (she is working on it at the moment under the care of her excellent doctor, but it is really hard). The insidious nature of this disease is that on paper, it seems like she is doing such a great job of following all the research - "oh, wow, she's so great, she doesn't touch any grains", "look at that lovely, huge bowl of raw fruits and veg she has for breakfast", "she ferments her own soybeans, what a legend". But the end result is not healthy at all.

I used to be more in the camp of "eat tomatoes, but fry them in olive oil first because that makes it easier for your body to access the lycopene in them, etc". I did it with exercise too: HIIT, no, Super-Slow, no low impact Pilates and swimming, no, yes, no. And worst of all, I knew that there is lots of strong evidence that stress is bad for you across the board, so clearly I shouldn't be stressing about getting all this wrong (right?). And then I'd get so overwhelmed I'd go "stuff it" and eat a donut. So, my issue was how to "turn down the volume" on the incessant chatter.

So, what helped me? A few things:
- Committing to No S and allowing myself to eat anything savoury as long as it fit on my plate.
- Stopping the reading and researching - definitely the opinion, and even the reputable science sites. Information was not helping me.
- Asking my husband to cook. Don't watch, don't discuss, just eat whatever he makes!
- Time. The brain doesn't stop the habits of years in a week.

I've also realised that all the research may be right, but also wrong. Information about a single nutrient and its effect on a single outcome just cannot give you complete advice on what you as a complete human should be eating, but that's the way bloggers and journalists like to spin it. Sulphurophane does not equal broccoli, fish does not equal fish oil, etc.

These days I'm in the habit of avoiding fast/processed foods and eat homemade 90% of the time. I cook a lot of meals my grandmother would have eaten, recipes passed down through my mother. My grandmother lived to be 97, so I figure she's as good a role model as any. I've found I feel better if I get plenty of fresh fruit and veg, but that doesn't always work out. Sometimes I go to the local bakery and eat a beef and mushroom pie. Who knows what's in them (perhaps not even beef or mushrooms?), but they are bloody delicious.

[MsJ]

I have no advice, but I am totally with you. I have the same problem.

[oolala53]

Stick to No S like a life raft, be gentle and forgiving of yourself for your thoughts, and calmly shift your attention to something else when you notice them. Do that at least 1000 times before you allow yourself to even THINK you "can't" do it.

This technique comes from a protocol for people with OCD, and it's part of what I used to stick to No S and divert from obsessive thoughts to eat when I first started. Obsessions are the result of a brain pattern that makes a person feel that if she doesn't surrender to the thoughts or the action, something terrible will happen. This is usually characterized by very uncomfortable, irritating, sometimes almost excruciating feelings that a person wants to get rid of! Tolerating the feelings, accepting that they do not really mean that anything harmful is going to happen, and diverting to another thought or activity has been shown to actually change the brain pattern over time. It's preferable that the diversion is either pleasant or productive.

It takes practice, but it's totally worth the effort. The more forgiving and compassionate you are to yourself while you learn, the better. Berating oneself has been shown to reinforce the the behavior you wish to change. Ironic, no? But it's good news! We don't have to be mean to ourselves to win.

[Common Sense M]

Hello everyone, thanks for sharing your empathy and support. I used to be utterly ashamed of these thought patterns, but I have come to realize that it's probably a lot more common than anyone would guess. We are inundated with information about the obesity crisis, as well as diet and health reporting. Sadly, a lot of what we are all exposed to is poorly researched or poorly reported on.

One writer who I have really appreciated is David Katz. He is a big fan of Michael Pollan and tries to focus on the commonalities of healthful diets across the board.

I recently read "The power of habit" by Charles Duhigg and got really excited about the process of changing a habit and many potential applications that he presents.

However, even these kinds of information can trip me up. Case in point, when I actually tried to apply what I have learned from his book, my wheels started spinning about whether I had found the right cue or how was I going to find the right reward or maybe I needed to change the routine, and so on and so forth. I realized that the potential for overthinking and analysis paralysis was enormous. I think the suggestions that you are giving me here are really good. I need to forgive myself, and then swiftly redirect my attention. I think it might also be good if I put my tablet out in my husband's car so that I don't have access to it during the day when he is at work. The tablet is a foundational part of this behavior for me, because I can just open it up and look anywhere and Safari runs faster than my computer's browser.

[eschano]

I completely get it. I think for me it stopped when I read about the history of "good foods/bad foods" again and again. So one time no protein and mainly carbs was deemed healthy, then low-fat, now they are saying that it is much healthier to eat full fat. Low carb was a thing too but people start drifting away fast.

Once that message was hammered home by Reinhard, Michael Pollan, etc. all kinds of people and once I realised who pays for these studies or promotes them (sometimes with the best interest at heart like clueless policy-makers, sometimes lobbies) I suddenly stopped paying so much attention.

Train yourself to TASTE your food and enjoy it. It will take a while but you'll get there!

[Common Sense M]

This is a good reflection on the history that you are referring to:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/ ... eader-card

[Marianna]

wonderful article commonsense!! I needed to read that~

[vmsurbat]

From what I've read, I am under the impression that several active posters here have struggled with this and overcome it. Please, do you have any advice?

With info overload, I've always found it helpful to go back, way back, to the basics. Namely, healthy people everywhere and throughout history have eaten all kinds of foods, in relatively similar ways: discrete meals, not too much, with treats reserved for festive occasions. In other words, all the (formerly) common knowledge which NoS codifies.

No scientific study is going to show this; by their very nature, nutritional studies focus on one small aspect to the neglect of larger ones. However, we don't NEED such a study because history has shown us, that by and large, basic NoS principles are an excellent way to nourish and nurture our bodies.

I've also found it very helpful to fight diethead with my own little arsenal of mantras and mottos (in fact, there is a sticky at the top of the board entitled: NoS Catchphrase which is chock-full of such things.). When badgered by diethead buzz words, I corral them with true thoughts about food and eating.

Also, to overcome thinking/treating food as a collection of fats, points, calories, antioxidants, fiber, etc., I really had to focus on enjoying an apple AS AN APPLE (not as a "healthy" food) . Or cookie as a cookie (not as a guilty treat). This is a skill/behavior that can be (re)learned.

Learning to enjoy food as food is one of the big pluses of NoS, and the reason it is easy to keep on with it after all these years. I get 3 pleasurable meals daily! Woohoo!

You can do this!

[clarinetgal]

I completely understand, I'm still trying to work through diet head myself. For awhile, I was really tied to doing Paleo (with naughty treats, sometimes) and green smoothies. I felt okay on Paleo, and my gut did feel better, but I didn't feel quite right eating lower carb. I was always sort of tired, and a little depressed. I eventually figured out that I actually feel better with some grains in my diet (so I'm going against the no grains rule). I won't be eating a lot of bread, because I really don't like most bread, but I now feel free to sometimes eat bread, and to regularly enjoy foods like rice, quinoa, and spaghetti. As for green smoothies, I was drinking them to get a big boost of nutrition, and because I felt like I 'should,' but I recently realized I really don't like green smoothies, so I am no longer going to make them -- except for a couple of good green smoothie recipes I found. I guess this is my long way of saying that moderation really is best, and you need to find what foods make you feel good, and not worry as much about the rules.

[Common Sense M]

Thanks for chiming in Vicki, I will definitely be mining the mantra sticky section! Your 6-year maintenance is absolutely commendable and very encouraging!

Clarinetgal, I bought into the smoothie craze too, but gave it up after it began to harm my health (namely sudden tooth demineralization).

What are everyone's thoughts about sugar? This is the topic that I still really get stuck on. The paradoxes, even within my own family, are stark. I have a grandparent who is almost 90, lives alone with physical health sufficient to enjoy life, and still indulges in milkshakes, Marie Calendar pies (gross! sorry, just MHO), the occasional doughnut, etc. Then, one generation down, I have a slew of relatives and two parents who are diabetic - some of them insulin dependent. I can't seem to make up my mind. Some days I feel like it would be easier to just write sugar out of my life. It does seem to have uniquely habit-forming properties that other foods don't. For example, when I was a vegan, I didn't find myself cracking and going wild on cheeses, omelettes, or hamburgers, but this kind of crazed over-eating does happen with sugar after a period of restricting or in anticipation of one. And of course I tell myself that I don't feel good when I eat sugar (which is only partially true - the reality seems to be more like this: sugary foods make me feel unwell if taken on an empty stomach in an insulin resistant (have been sedentary for a number of days) state). But maybe that is all in my head. Maybe sugar is a problem because I believe that it's a problem. A kind of negative placebo effect. And of course I also ask myself the question that Mr. Engels should win a medal for coining "could I live with this for the rest of my life". And it seems like it would be sad to pass up family treats just because I have "a thing" about sugar. Then again, if I were diabetic, what would I do? But here again, a family member who came to visit recently for three weeks had the best blood glucose levels in the past five years while eating dessert every day, the only thing that changed was walking 10,000 steps (about 80 minutes) a day on hilly terrain.

Do you see it? Do you see how long that paragraph was? And it goes on and on like that in my head. I do love Dr. Lustig - he is a man of true integrity as far as I am concerned. But he is making me crazy-pants!

So, long-timers and short-timers, how do you handle the sticky subject of sugar?

(do I get any bonus points for alliteration? )

[MsJ]

Also, to overcome thinking/treating food as a collection of fats, points, calories, antioxidants, fiber, etc., I really had to focus on enjoying an apple AS AN APPLE (not as a "healthy" food) . Or cookie as a cookie (not as a guilty treat). This is a skill/behavior that can be (re)learned.

Learning to enjoy food as food is one of the big pluses of NoS, and the reason it is easy to keep on with it after all these years. I get 3 pleasurable meals daily! Woohoo!

You can do this!

This is something I definitely need to do.

[ironchef]

I handle sugar the way No S states: No Sweets, except on days starting with S. That's No Sweets, not No Sugar, so a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee or on my oatmeal would be absolutely fine if I want it. I'm a relatively "hard line" person compared with other posters (and Reinhard) on what I consider a sweet, for example I don't really eat honey, or jam, on N days.

That's it.

It I were diagnosed diabetic, or told that my current behaviour was a risk for it or some other health problem, I would expect to modify my behaviour if required, under the guidance of a doctor. I'm not a health professional, so if you're worried about your current health and family history / risk factors, I'd talk to your doctor.

3 years ago I would have written a paragraph almost as long as yours. I have found it infinitely relaxing to focus on the 14 words of No S and let the nitty gritty go.

[Marianna]

I eat sweets every day, but I only eat sugary treats on S days. I eat stevia sweetened protein bars I make for myself, or a square of stevia sweetened chocolate after dinner on N days. Not the letter of the law, but I find that deprivation makes me violate all the laws very quickly if I don't allow myself a sweet. On weekends, I will have a pastry or a candy.

I really really empathize with you. I am in the same boat, but with some added physiological problems (mostly insulin resistance) thrown in to boot. I wish there wasnt so much conflicting info out there, but that is why I am here doing No S (which by the way I have been trying to do for many years--I keep coming back for a reason!!

[oolala53]

I officially eat sweets only on weekends and only in the company of others. That can easily mean weeks on end with no dessert. That is okay with me after nearly 5 years, though some recent digestive issues have thrown me off my game, but I still consider Vanilla the core of truth.

I still overeat sweets at times but do not accept that this might mean I should jettison them. As someone else said, if my health stats looked different, I would consider it. I am also going to ask my doctor for a referral to a dietician for other reasons. It's hard to imagine sugar is the cause of recent issues, since until the issues started, I wasn't eating much.

I do use things like Nestle's Quick in my coffee, but I also often use stevia and plain cocoa instead. I do use stevia rather regularly. That may be impacting my continued (sometimes) difficulties with sweets, but again, the problem is acceptable so far in my eyes.

I suggest you just follow Vanilla and try very hard to divert your thoughts when you find yourself dwelling on sugar issues. Be patient with yourself. This is a very old thinking loop for you, and is also not a measure of your worth, for goodness' sake, if you never cure it. You're not a criminal! Most humans have ridiculous thoughts whirling around and repeating themselves ad infinitum. Ask any Buddhist meditation teacher or counselor of ACT.

I gently say, try to find a new passion, or spread your passion over other areas of interest in your life. Think more of how you might be different in a year rather than in a month.

I predict a great year.

[Common Sense M]

Thank you all for your input! It calms my nerves to read your thoughts and experiences. It sounds like everyone does better staying in the vanilla end of the pool. That is probably what I should start with.

I would like to drop snacking altogether, for it is frowned upon as being a very antisocial behavior in the culture that I live in.

[oolala53]

Snacking is frowned on in the culture you live in? What a blessing! There is NO obligation to snack in No S, just caution in jettisoning extra pleasures while they are still pleasures.

I think I can say that I have NEEDED possibly ten percent of the snacks I have eaten... I was going to say since I started No s, but really, in my life.