Throwing Out Nutrition Rules

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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NoelFigart
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Throwing Out Nutrition Rules

Post by NoelFigart » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:25 pm

I hear a lot of talk in the the gym locker room surrounding food and eating. Carbs are teh ebbil, only eat organic, eat six times a day to overclock your metabolism, Man was not meant to process dairy, you name it. (If you're getting up at 5:00 in the morning to work out, it's probably not because you're a relaxed type -- just sayin')

I don't join in.

But it did get me to thinking about "healthy" diets and all that nonsense. Yes, i said nonsense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm in favor of veggies. Broccoli is on my dinner plan for tonight, and I love a good stir fry. Most meals I make have about half an onion in them, and I throw veggies into most any meal soup or stew I make. A sandwich lunch will usually have some sort of veggie and dip side. Fruit? I eat a serving of fruit with breakfast most days.

Do I make a special effort to get in my five a day? No, I don't. I don't worry about carb ratios, and i don't worry about whether or not I'm getting enough protein.

If I ate instant ramen three times a day, I might be concerned, but again, probably only a little. What really cured me of worrying too much about it was a comment by a favorite writer of mine about humans and their adaptability. The comment was, "Humans can stay alive where a goat would starve."

True. And while there is a difference between surviving and thriving, I am really increasingly of the opinion that "The Perfect Foods" are an amazing distraction from the reality of the fact that sheer food volume doesn't have sane boundaries in our culture.
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My blog http://noelfigart.com/blog/ I talk about being a freelance writer, working out and cooking mostly. The language is not always drawing room fashion. Just sayin'.

Quick Bites
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Post by Quick Bites » Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:28 pm

Coming from a family where I am convinced my Mother has Orthorexia to the point I never know what she can or cannot have as it changes with every "new" nutrition study, I cannot get farther away from this line of thinking. Balance is key in my opinion. I have been on that ride before, it is not fun, it is crazy making. I am hoping my return to no s keeps me sane as far as this subject, thank you Noel for posting this!

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Merry
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Re: Throwing Out Nutrition Rules

Post by Merry » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:14 am

NoelFigart wrote:"Humans can stay alive where a goat would starve."
LOL, snort! :lol:

I hear you on "fad" "healthy" diets. Just when I figure out which fats we can have, those are no longer the good ones, they're the bad ones. Carbs are bad no meat is bad...

How about let's just eat?!

I agree, it's a huge distraction from the fact that we just plain eat too much, and that we eat too much sugar.

I'm amazed how often I ate before. I actually feel better on N days when I'm not over-stuffing myself. I even did a bit better on my last S day because I remembered it felt better not over-stuffing. It's nice to actually get hungry, and to remember that hunger won't kill me! I've realized though, that I don't have a good off button. I realize I've eaten too much when it's too late, LOL! I like the N day guidelines, and hope my S days even out. Just today I was thinking of all the things in the house that I could eat on my next S day, and then I started thinking, "wow, that seems like a lot of sugar, I might not feel good after all that sugar, I might want to make some choices..."

LOL!
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

vmsurbat
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Post by vmsurbat » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:51 am

A really excellent article on the whole idea of "Nutrition Rules" coming out of Oldways Common Ground symposium (composed of nutrition experts from every persuasion--vegan to paleo):

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/expert-o ... real-david
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BrightAngel
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Re: Throwing Out Nutrition Rules

Post by BrightAngel » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:22 pm

NoelFigart wrote: What really cured me of worrying too much about it was a comment by a favorite writer of mine
about humans and their adaptability.
The comment was, "Humans can stay alive where a goat would starve."

True. And while there is a difference between surviving and thriving,
I am really increasingly of the opinion that "The Perfect Foods"
are an amazing distraction from
the reality of the fact that sheer food volume doesn't have sane boundaries in our culture
.
I agree. :)
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:30 pm

I like this excerpt best.
Note that both agree on the subordinate details, as does the larger universe of nutrition experts. All variants on the theme of optimal eating reliably exclude manufactured trans fats, and are low in total saturated fat- if only by virtue of the foods they emphasize. They are, into the bargain, low in added sugars and sweeteners; low in refined grains and starches; and not more than moderate in total sodium. These matters are not belabored here for they are uncontentious, and largely self-evident.
Actually, there ARE those who think even saturated fat is not poison, either.

But let's just get people to eat moderately and see where we land!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
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FarmerHal
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Post by FarmerHal » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:33 am

Oh boy, do I ever struggle with this!!

I spent a lot of time the last few years doing high fat/low carb (and having terrible tummy issues as a result). In my brain that is the "best" way of eating. I'm having a VERY hard time trying to find some sort of sane/normal way of thinking about food. :roll:

You could pretty much say I have orthorexia. Carbs are bad. Wheat is evil, dairy is bad, sugar is horrible, and honestly I feel pretty cruddy when I eat those things.

BUT, are ALL grains bad? I tolerate rice really well, and corn in a ground/cooked state (as far as it not aggravating my GERD). But I feel 'guilty' when I do, because grains/carbs are bad.

And I agonize over eating fruit even! I was stuck on eating only 45 grams of carbs per meal, that includes fruit as being the 'bad guy.'

I'm still confused. Are white/sweet potatoes bad or not bad?

I definitely appreciate the principles of NoS. While it should be common sense, I struggle with using food as a means to calm myself, entertain myself.

But at this point I think I have to let go of the "low carb/high fat" rules that I followed so long (the fat tears up my gallbladder/stomach), and go with what my body says is best IN MODERATION (the very noS principles).

How does one get over this anyway?
{FarmerHal} ...previously Shamrockmommy...
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LoriLifts
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Post by LoriLifts » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:15 pm

I'm a passenger on the orthorexia train with you FarmerHal.

The train is pulling into the station, we need to get off :D
Habits are at first cobwebs, then cables.

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Merry
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Post by Merry » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:40 am

FarmerHal wrote: But at this point I think I have to let go of the "low carb/high fat" rules that I followed so long (the fat tears up my gallbladder/stomach), and go with what my body says is best IN MODERATION (the very noS principles).

How does one get over this anyway?
It sounds like you are on the right track, at least in thought if not in action yet--listening to your body, avoiding things that don't make you feel good (wheat, too much fat), but allowing things that don't bother you (rice etc...). There are lots of cultures that eat rice and are healthy--maybe reading some about them, or googling "nutritional value in ____" or "vitamins in ____" can help change thoughts on some of those questionable foods for you?

I do find various diets with "forbidden foods" very confusing, because so many of them contradict each other. Do you have the NoS book? Good viewpoints on forbidden foods in there--maybe re-reading some of those sections would be helpful. I remember one part saying something like, why do we worry about antioxidants when we're 50 lbs. overweight? And that the best thing we could do for ourselves nutritionally is to lose excess weight. That will have the most overall impact on our health--such a logical conclusion, it does make sense to focus on good habits and let some of these other, less clear issues go.

I hope over time, as I get used to eating more the NoS way, that I will make more healthy choices (fruits, veggies), and be less of an idiot on S days, LOL!
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:03 pm

I think it depends on when or whether you're "ready." This is rarely brought on just to "lose weight." Concentrating on the ill effects you'd like to avoid is often very helpful, especially if they are real and not just trumped up. Many are those who made overnight turnarounds because they became convinced that certain habits were the cause of something they feared or really didn't want. If you know the fat tears up your gallbladder and stomach, then high fat is off the table for you, no matter what someone else says is advantageous about eating it. You just have to believe that you can create "enough" health for yourself with another regime.

Everyone here is probably sick of my saying it because I'm on a kick with it but none of the longevity zone cultures in the news in the last few years are low carb. This doesn't mean low carb is bad; it's just that if it's torture, it's not necessary. Sure, it's possible that most of the long-lived low carb cultures have just about disappeared, but bottom line is we have little evidence from any CULTURE/WHOLE POPULATION that it's the way to go. I don't know about you, but even at age 62, another 20 years of pretty good health sounds fine to me. If I lose a couple of years (and it's doubtful it will be that long) because I didn't eat a ton of grass-fed beef, as Michael Fox said years ago about developing Parkinson's, I'll carry that bag of hammers. However, I've made some big changes in the past few weeks over Alzheimer's. THAT motivates me. It probably wouldn't have six years ago when I started No S because I probably wouldn't have believed the research. Maybe a side effect of my attachment to food, maybe not. But we'll never know. I'm just ready now.

And you get over it by practice. Get hungry, savor your food, savor feeling sated afterward, note guilt or shame, see it for what it is, and divert, just as you might with between-meal hunger. If you are eating a fair amount of what you know is "right" for you over the course of a week, then you aren't sweeping anything under the rug. If you aren't eating enough, then you need to calmly look to see what are the benefits/drawbacks of making the effort to do so as opposed to not making the effort, and be honest! And if you really aren't willing to change much no matter what, there's no use in feeling crappy about it. That is what of an old friend calls unnecessary and unproductive suffering. I don't always recognize it when it comes, but when I do, it's a useful label!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by Sarah-lara » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:37 am

I haven't read it yet because my library doesn't have it, but I just saw a new book called The Wellness Syndrome on this subject:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0745655610/ref ... 3PNMV9FL95

There are ways I eat that are for ethical & environmental reasons. It's really easy for me to do that because it's just part of who I am. I obviously have significant difficulty glomming onto even the slightest little thing that would help my own health's or appearance's sake, though. Dr. McDougall once wrote a compelling essay that said if you are stuffing yourself into oblivion, you aren't actually as good of a vegan as you think you are because you're still harming one animal terribly (yourself.) As much sense as it made for me to read, it went in one ear and out some other hole (credit: Phillip J. Fry)

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Post by oolala53 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:48 am

I posit that if it isn't relatively easy, the motivations are not clear or the belief in the problem or remedy is shaky.

I have to try not to guffaw when people say they want to be as healthy as possible. That would probably mean a much bigger change than most are willing to make. How about as healthy as the sacrifice I'm willing to make will get me? Vanilla, eventually mostly real food, 14 minutes and UR are a great start and possibly end.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Over43
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Post by Over43 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:08 pm

Dieting has become a psycho-pathology. My oldest went through a vegan organic food stage. I would come home from work (on a regulae basis) and she would have tofu pad Thai waiting for me. (And other such dishes...) It was, I must say, delicious. But the tofu gave me trumpetous flatulents. I thought I had a tumor in my intestines. I even went to the doctor. He told me to quit eating tofu, with a smile, if I wanted to quit playing Sousa.

Dieting reminds me a bit of the X-Files: Trust No One.

I have lost weight, eating three meals a day, on bacon and eggs, sandwiches on white bread, and Hamburger Helper. I suggest adding more fruits and vegetables to that life=style, but as part of the meal, not a stand alone plan.
April 4, 2016 197

Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
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Post by clarinetgal » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:23 pm

I think I'm on the orthorexia train, myself, and I'm ready to get off. Like Farmer Hal, I have my share of tummy issues, so I want to be mindful of the foods that make me feel bad, without needlessly restricting. I did do Paleo for awhile, and I won't do it again, because I think my body needs a certain amount of healthy grains.

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Post by oolala53 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:38 pm

Weight loss and health are not necessarily synonymous. It all comes down to whether we're willing to live with the possible consequences. I have come to believe that odds are I won't be as healthy as I'd like if I eat the exact same way I have been, even though I have lost about 20% of my body weight. But I don't assume anything is 100% protective nor damning, nor that I know what will work for any one individual. And I don't spend time wishing I'd figured out my latest version sooner. It's all been part of the whole.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

minimizer
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Post by minimizer » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:24 am

oohlala, are you trying to start eating in such a way to prevent Alzheimer's...am I understanding that's what you're saying?
I'm wondering if you're trying to avoid sugar specifically, or other foods as well?

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:39 am

I'm a bit late coming to this discussion - but I've been through SO many restrictive eating trends in my life I've lost count!

I've ended up here with No S, which I love, and which is teaching me moderation!

I'm currently mostly vegan, and mostly no fat/low-fat - but not exclusively. I just enjoyed some butter on my whole-wheat toast, topped with a fat-free bean pate I made! I'm a confusion myself!

I still get influenced by the extremists who insist on 100% adherence to a particular life-style. I've found that I CAN in fact, be moderate and include some things, some times.
Last edited by RAWCOOKIE on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:19 pm

Minimizer, in a word, yes. But not prevent, just lower the odds of. I don't pretend anything is foolproof. And there's nothing eliminated, but some things greatly reduced from what I had been eating, most notably for me fast food..
There are some people who cut that out a long time ago. But I'll still have cheap pizza with my colleagues the few times we share it, etc. I had other quirks already. And of course it contradicts other systems, but it dovetails the ones I am most interested in. I don't feel I'm missing a lot of foods I'd rather be eating.

But I agree that a lot of problems could be cut way back just from volume.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

noni
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Post by noni » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:21 pm

So Oolala, to lessen the incidence of Alzhemers, it is believed that avoiding chemically laden food helps?

minimizer
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Post by minimizer » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:36 pm

Oh I see, oohlala, thanks for clarifying.
I'm especially interested since Alzheimer's has claimed quite a few of my relatives, including my mother :(

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:49 pm

The particular studies the "diet" targets didn't seem concerned with that issue, but there are plenty of good reasons to decrease those in general. I'm leaning toward less manufactured foods in general, replacing them with foods from the Blue Zones, though I include others, too, namely a lot more dairy and a greater variety of grains than they do. And the flavor of sweet more often, though it's usually stevia these days.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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