Everyday Systems

Well I'm not too into scales, as most of you folks already know..
And for newbies, I actually took my own scale out, nearly two years ago when I started Shovelglove and smashed it to bits!!!!!
That was a fun time!!!!
I should buy another one just to smash again!

Meanwhile.. I thought it would be good and was curious to see how far up my weight actually went last month, before I started reigning in on myself this week, and weighed myself on three different scales today..

My Moms scale (bathroom type) said I was up 8 pounds..
The gym has two scales and one said (Dr's scale) that I lost one pound...
The other gym scale (Dr's scale with adjustable slide which was clearly tampered with) said I was up five pounds...

Okay, as if that wasn't confusing enough, and definitely not very clarifying, a member who hadn't seen me for a month burst out with "Where did all of you go??? You look too skinny" LOL...
Clearly she needs some glasses!
LOL..

In the end, all I can say is, I am much happier to use a tape measure and days on habit, and my clothes to decide if I'm doing well or not..
Can you blame me?

So please sign my poll if you agree that scales suck!
(Or not..)
LOL..

Peace and Love,
Deb

i am starting to hate scales...especially my newer digital model that let's me know just precisely every tiny bit that i have gained....ok, did i really need to know that i gained .2 of a pound today?

maybe i should adopt your shovelglove termination technique, Deb....

You know what Tricia.. If it's pretty accurate, then I guess (she groans begrudgingly) it can be somewhat useful.. But I wrote this post after I experienced the wide, and totally messed up, different range in readouts on those different scales..
Maybe I just should have named this post
"My Mum's scale suxxx"
LOL..

Still they do suck!
And I'm never gonna change my tune!
LOL..


Love,
Deb
The Tanitaterminator!
Smash it up!!!!!!!!
(That's good exercise you know!)

Heh, I like the option, "Meh, they're ok".

In my opinion, they're just another tool in the box, like your tape measure, or looking int he mirror, or BMI, or anything else. They can provide a meaningful gauge if used in the right context and, of couse, if they're relatively accurate - or if you use the same scale (so you can at least see your relative change).

Here's Navin's personal guide to happy scale usage.*

1. Try to find an accurate scale.
2. Try to weigh using the same scale, during the same time of day, for consistent results. Your weight typically varies naturally throughout the day or even week.
3. If you tend to get upset over small gains, then weigh yourself LESS often, like one a week, once every couple weeks or even once a month. If you have gained after a month, that may be something to be concerned about, but if you've gained after a day, that is probably meaningless.
4. Remember, it's on ly a number. The relative change is probably more important than the absolute value. Those height/weight chars, BMI, all that stuff are really just estimates, not everybody is quite the same. If you're losing slowly over time, then you're in good shape.


* Use at your own risk. Individual results may vary. By using this technique, the user agrees to indemnify, and not hold liable Navin or any of its subsidiaries for any damage sustained while using this method. May cause discoloration, use in an inconspicuous area first. May contain nuts.

Deb, I am firmly in the "scales suck" camp. Let's not forget, 'weight' is a measure of your body's gravitational force. Who gives a rip? We only care b/c it's a PROXY for body fat, and a damn poor one at that (depending on time of the month, scale calibration, not to mention muscle mass, water, etc.). As one of those sensitive individuals whose day can be made or ruined by the number on the scale, I had to officially put the scale down. I weighed at the beginning of this journey, I'll weigh again when my clothes and the mirror tell me I've reached my goal, and then I might use regular weigh-ins for maintenance purposes. But in the past I've had too many weeks of dedicated dieting and exercise with no loss (or even a gain) to show for it. My life is stressful enough, thank you. I'm doing No-S as a way to gain MORE control over my life, so I'll be damned if I'm going to turn over my emotions to a stupid set of springs.
[this is a good companion thread to the 'non-numerical goals' thread]

Egads, scales can get a lot of us in quite the state!

I'm in the "weigh once per month" camp. Even at 47, I can get very hormonal, and my weight can jump up and down from day to day. Of course, just before and during the first 2 days of my period, I am a mess weight-wise. So I have pledged to weigh myself once/month, at the end of my period. Last month I showed a loss of 16 lbs. This month? Who knows, but even if I've only lost 2 or 3 lbs, I'm still very happy with how I am feeling with the No S way of eating. And in the months to come, if I've stayed the same or gained, then I've got a whole month to adjust and make the changes that will keep the numbers going down. Even if it's 1-2 lbs per month, I'll take it!

But I'll be taking my measurements too, because as krs said, muscle mass can make the numbers go up, and yet your clothes are looser! That sounds like what you're experiencing Deb, maybe measuring inches lost will give you a truer picture.

Deb, i can just see it now...a movie all about a disgruntled scale user from the future sent back in time to destroy all scales...with her trusty sledgehammer! Hey, maybe Hollywood should give you a call!

You GO girl!

Hi Mia, KRS, Opera, Navin (ha you post!,,,contains nuts!!! LOL..) and Doula!

Thanks for contributing to my rant!
LOL..

And Babe
I have been measuring all along since 2004..
Went down from a 42 inch waist to a 36 at my lowest, and right now I'm at 37.5.....

Tricia! Please send your idea to Martin Scorcese!
I'd actually rather have my film be more like Taxi Driver than the Terminator...
I think I'd look great with a mohawk!

Peace and Love,
Debinator!

Deb,

If there's a mohawk in your future, you've got to post the picture!

Come on, make my day!

Scales suck, but I still weigh in religiously anyways. I think I need a new one though...I tried weighing myself several times this morning and there was a five-pound range.

I voted "meh, they're okay." In the past, I would have definitely voted that they suck!! But since No S I've stopped obsessing about, well, basically everything. I don't obsess about food or my weight...and for the first time in years the scale has gone DOWN. The funny part is, I don't really get that 'rush' I used to get about weight loss. It feels good but it's not like I base my happiness around it anymore. It's hard to believe I've maintained in the 130's at all without what feels like any effort at all. I do feel that the scale is only part of a number of things that matter in measuring weight loss. Day to day fluctuations count as nothing, but in the long run it does have some merit.

Scales are useful for weighing ingredients to make cake which will be eaten on S-days.

Mmm, cake.

I hate scales. I feel fine, get on the scale and all of a sudden feel like a blob and start eating everything. This all happens because it went up two pounds. I'm starting to feel I would be a much saner person without it.

Just this past weekend I worked hard, ate somewhat healthy when I decided to jump on and see the progress - no progress so I downed maybe an extra 2,000 calories because of it.

Thanks for the post - I'm having my husband hide it tonight.

I agree with the thought that scales are just another tool in the box. I jump on one occassionally, but I tend to go by how I look in the mirror and how my clothes are fitting.
Remember also that lean muscle weighs more than fat. So even if your weight is up, it might be more lean mass than fat if you are watching what you eat and working out pretty regularly.
I weigh between 180-190 lbs. at any given time and no one accuses me of being fat. Like I said...A tool in the box, but not the be all/end all by any means.

This reminds me a little of the debate about standardized testing in education. Most US tests today are absolutely terrible, but instead of arguing about how to make better, more meaningful, less obtrusive tests, it's either "any and all tests are good!" or "tests are inherently evil!"

In education and in health, you need some kind of metric or you have no idea what's going on. The question is, what's a good metric? I'm a little skeptical about scales for a bunch for a bunch of reasons, but I think if you don't take any single reading too seriously they can be a useful tool.

My favorite metric remains "days on habit." It's fundamentally different from scale stepping because it measures behavior, not results. Behave, and the results will come, but it takes time, and focusing on short term results can undermine your efforts. Behavior is directly under your control -- it is your control. You'll never get any nasty surprises.You can either just do a running count of consecutive days, or as was suggested a little while ago keep a baseball style "habitting average" (e.i., success days/failures). If you want to measure results as a secondary metric, fine. But behavior is the most important thing. If you're scale sensitive, I'd advise waiting a bit till you're strong in habit before supplementing/moving beyond this metric.

For results, I theoretically like the waist circumference metric. I've never actually done it myself, but from what I've read, it sounds like it corresponds better to what people actually care about (being and looking leaner).

Thanks for creating this poll, Deb!

Reinhard

Vanilla Gorilla wrote:
"I agree with the thought that scales are just another tool in the box."

Yeah, a lame tool!!!


Hi VG!!

Oh, Thompson,,,

Scales are useful for weighing ingredients to make cake which will be eaten on S-days.

Nice one!!!

Incidentally, I find it interesting that no one has yet voted for
"I love scales!" LOL..

This is fun
Peace and Love,
Deb
Vehement Scale Hater!

Sure you need a metric. But most metrics measure artefacts or correlated factors, not the actual thing we want to know. Like a weight scale or BMI, which are pretty silly measures of obesity (just like the communist-style standardized testing they have in the US measures little more than how much a school wants to get public moneys). They can be useful in some circumstances, but it must be acknowledged that what they measure is not, most of the time, what we actually care about. Waist circumference is a much better measure although, once again, with certain limits.

Thanks for creating this poll, Deb!

Reinhard

Sure thing!
My follow up poll will be

"Who feels like Shovelgloving the S out of their scale today?"
LOL..

Behavior is directly under your control -- it is your control. You'll never get any nasty surprises.

Amen!!!

I agree wholeheartedly that Days on Habit and measuring myself, are what I will be focusing my attention on..
Nothing can take away the feeling you get when you know you've done your work, and you are honest with yourself..
And yes, then the results take care of themselves

Yeah, a lame tool!!!

Now, if you read my post, I did say they were definitely not the be all/end all...

Hello, Deb.

You da be all and end all VG!!!

I'm just trying to keep the conversation lively like

Seeya!
Peace and Love,
Deb

I'm with Navin. Scales are useful tools, nothing more. Any emotional weight or baggage we give them is a problem with our psyche, not with a machine.

I'm gonna channel Jack Nicholson now: If you don't like scales, the problem isn't with the scale, it's because "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!"

I've had my share of maddening experiences with scales (read back on my log to see if you want), but I still think they are very useful.

I didn't vote because a)voting is horribly overrated and fetishized in our culture because they give the illusion of democracy, and b)because there wasn't a "they are a useful tool when used correctly" option....

Deb, this has been an interesting debate, with a lot of good points made, but I am now and will probably remain "anti-scale" well into the future, as it pertains to ME. Freakwitch, you have a more neutral relationship with the scale, yippee-skip for you. But let me point out that we are absolutely inundated in this culture with the idea that weight loss is the king of anti-obesity metrics. It's not a sign of weakness or denial to be affected by this. You like the scale, use the scale. But I hope we can step away from casting aspersions on the personality traits of strangers based on how their weight loss struggle manifests itself.

Let's all just get along!
LOL..

Thanks all!
Have a nice week!

Love,
Deb

gratefuldeb67 wrote:You da be all and end all VG!!!

I'm just trying to keep the conversation lively like

Seeya!
Peace and Love,
Deb

And keeping it lively you are!

Like I said, I don't use them a lot, but I do like to have an idea of what ballpark I am in weight-wise. Just call it a curiosity factor or point of reference if you want. I tend to stick with photos, mirrors and how I feel/look for the majority of my self assessments.
If I look at a pic and look pretty muscular, I'd kinda like to know how much said muscle weighs, I guess...

krs wrote:Freakwitch, you have a more neutral relationship with the scale, yippee-skip for you. But let me point out that we are absolutely inundated in this culture with the idea that weight loss is the king of anti-obesity metrics. It's not a sign of weakness or denial to be affected by this. You like the scale, use the scale. But I hope we can step away from casting aspersions on the personality traits of strangers based on how their weight loss struggle manifests itself.

KRS, you seem a bit agitated, though it's hard to tell in this medium.

Just to clarify my point, I think that part of our weight-loss, anti-obesity culture is that we transfer a lot of the angst that this culture produces onto an external object, in this case the scale. And from where I stand, that's misguided. Our emotions are ours, and if we are to have any hope of dealing with them fully and authentically, then we cannot deny our own power this way.

Don't shoot the messenger, in other words.

And note that I'm not saying everyone must use scales, I'm just saying that projecting one's emotions onto a tool is waste of energy.

I don't have any emotional baggage James!!!!
How Dare you!!!!!
Actually the whole thread, and impulse to create a "Scale bashing" poll, was entirely due to the fact that, that scale was completely innacurate and I tried three different ones with three different readings...
I was hoping to get a reality check not get more confused! LOL...
But it wasn't my psyches fault!
So there

KRS! Thanks for getting my back!
LOL...
James and I are close friends, both on and off list, so he was just trying to be funny (and quite opinionated as usual! LOL... )

Well have a great day and go and smash up a scale!
It will make the world a better place

Peace and Love,
Deb

Deb,

Just for the above comment I am going to start a "Save Our Scales" drive...

Sorry Kev,
Better off doing Save the Whales!
LOL..

The Debinator will not rest till all scales are smashed!!!!

Deb

(except the one at the Deli for measuring out cold cuts)

No fair. That's favortism!!

I like scales okay but I think something is up with ours. It is digital and never needs batteries but we have had it quite a while. If I get on the scale say 4 times within 10 minutes, I might get 4 different readings some days and other days, it is right on the mark each time. It can be as much as 4 pounds difference. So we think we need a new one. Anyone know of a really reliable one?