Still Hoping to Succeed

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating

Post Reply
Ruthie71
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:37 pm

Still Hoping to Succeed

Post by Ruthie71 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:54 am

Hello everyone,
I am a NoS failure as I can't stand being hungry. I've been trying it of 6 years now. By 11.00 am, I tell myself that I really need another diet, or intuitive eating, as I can't stand the feeling of being hungry and still having work to do before lunch. I also comfort eat, being a stay at home mother with shoulder pain , back pain, headaches and three lively children. There have been so many binge episodes when I lie to myself about "starting tomorrow".

Now I hear about the 5:2 diet, which is meant to be good for your health, ward off dementia etc. At the rate I'm going, I will die young. I'm 45 and look old and moth eaten! I am chubby, look washed out and my hair is dry and frizzy.
I have gained 12 kg since having children.

I love the idea of the NoS diet and want to be able to clock up the green days.
What do people think about the NoS Diet compared to the 5:2 diet? Fasting is meant to help the body repair cells better etc. I don't think I would be able to stand the hunger! Am I just a big wuss?

Anyway, just thought I would say hello.
Thank you for reading :-)

User avatar
kaalii
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:42 pm
Location: switzerland

Post by kaalii » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:41 am

hello, ruthie71!

i have had a moderate positive experience with intermittent fasting... but NOT the 5:2 version! would never try that! way too extreme for me...

however, 16:8 version... it deffinitely cleaned out my after-dinner snacking (but noS does that, too :wink: ) and i am still kind of doing 16:8 or 14:10 on noS without even trying... it became a habit that suits me well and i dont feel like im "doing" it anymore... but im not an early breakfast person at al,l never been, so that may be the trick why it was easy and moderately efficient for me...

we have a thread here talking about it and quite some people have had a bad experience with 5:2, mostly in the sense that it was unsustainable long-term and/or too hard and some have raised concerns for health, too, so have a read:
https://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10981

but compared to noS - in my experience noS is waaay more efficient (but, mind you, i have never toyed with rapid weight loss in my life), to me it's turning out to be even too efficient when done vanilla way... but i'm not long enough in it to testify how sustainable it really is for me - but feels like that, totally!!
Last edited by kaalii on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:18 am, edited 6 times in total.
Age:40
BMI: 18.8
Body Fat %: 17.6
in it for maintenance and, more importantly, sanity!!

germanherman
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:49 am
Location: northern germany

Post by germanherman » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:20 am

Well, let's talk about diets again.

In the No S-Diet- Book Reinhardt rightfully debunks most diets on the market by putting them in two categories:

- Magic Food: Just eat more of this and lose weight
- Portion Control : Just eat less and lose weight

You can reduce the amount you eat in many ways: Reducing the amount of calories you eat, scrap some of your meals, fast some days etc.

In the end it is: Eat less than you burn and lose weight.

So IF falls in the same category. If you eat more in the allowed meals, you won't lose weight.

I would add to reinhardt's points my own experience:
Any advertised benefits of any diet over the core-"consume less than you burn"-effect is scam or bulls**t. I never found even one diet-guru, whose claims weren't based on pseudo-science or by ignoring "the other half" of the scientific views.

Yes, a lot "sounds" plausible, but that amounts in the end to nothing.

No it isn't fasting, that helps your body-cells to repair. You just damage them less by not eating damaging things in large amounts at that point.

So my tips are simple:

- Eat regularly, moderate meals (per example like what No S recommends)
- Eat a little bit more fruits and veggies
- Accept a little bit of hunger (not a torture, but a healthy, worked up appetite)
- Try to move more (always just a little bit)
- Be patient
- Be blissful ignorant of all the diets on the market: They are just there to confuse you, make some people rich and give you an excuse not to moderate your food intake.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

LifeisaBlessing
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:08 pm

Post by LifeisaBlessing » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:34 pm

Hi Ruthie71, and welcome back! :)

Both kaalii and germanherman have many words of wisdom in their posts, and I don't have too much more to add to them.

I will share what works for me to battle the hunger feeling: Anytime I feel it, I mentally tell myself that my body has plenty of fuel (read: fat weight!) to draw upon. If it's hungry, it will eventually pull some fuel from the fat stores.

Feel free to read some of my back posts. I have found success with a modified form of NoS, losing a lot of excess fat weight, and I have even achieved a new low on my body fat percentage--in the 18% range!! I started roughly in the 22-25% range. I'm thrilled, especially knowing I did it without following some super-restrictive diet or grueling exercise routine. Just modified NoS and 10K steps a day.

It's possible -- have faith in the process and be patient with yourself. It's tough with lots of activity and distractions in the house (being a stay-at-home/work-at-home mom too, I can relate), but the beauty of NoS is its simplicity and ability to work with your life. And best of all, you can start as soon as your next meal. You can do it! :)
I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.
~Jimmy Dean

The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective.
~El Fug, on the NoS Diet

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:17 pm

I say as gently as possible: which do you dislike more, being hungry or resisting stress eating, OR feeling like you look old and moth eaten, fearing dying young, feeling heavier, and probably distressed about how you handle eating? Right now, you are feeling that it's more painful to resist food than it is to feel the effects of overeating. You're just doing it unconsciously.

I think you can do something about your looks without eating less. That's a separate issue. In fact, doing a bit more for yourself there can bolster your will to do more with your eating. Don't wait to eat better to spend a little more time sprucing up, just for yourself!

Consider changing the cultural idea that staying home with kids means you HAVE to respond to the stress by eating. Stress doesn't MAKE people eat. It makes them WANT to eat. That's not the same thing! You don't have to eat just because you want to. There are probably only 10% of people in the world who eat every time they want to and still stay slim.

For clarification to another poster, the 5:2 diet is just eating about 500 calories two days a week. It is not fasting for a period of hours like 16/8. Some people have good results for a time at least. NO ONE had consistently tracked how these people fare 5 or more years later. There are definitely benefits to it that have nothing to do with weight loss, though. If you learn aobut them and believe you want them and they are worth the sacrifice, that could help. Much weight loss happens as a byproduct of people changing their eating for other reasons.

SOME people who use any of the variations of IF say they learn not to binge or even overeat on their non-fast days, but plenty don't or have it get even worse. Restricting and bingeing often go hand in hand! It takes a certain mindset to see it differently.

I wish I could tell you there was something foolproof to make the process easy. SOME people do find programs or motivations that make it easier, but it seems to vary. But the change happened for me when I got very clear that my life was harder by overeating than it would be the compulsive overeating I was doing. No S didn't suddenly get easy, but it was definitely easier than following a diet of specific foods and amounts, etc. And I LIKE being hungry now! I may even learn to like the desire to stress eat or eat out of boredom both of which still happen sometimes. :roll:

It's also hard to face that life in between our meals may not be as compelling as we'd like. Brad Pilon says no one is hungry or wants to eat when she is jumping out of an airplane, meaning that a lot of our eating is just because we aren't involved in something else more absorbing. But that's part of life. Just about everyone has to face that at times, whether they eat over it or not.

All I know is I'm almost always glad I waited for my next meal, even if it was challenging getting to it. If you don't give yourself a chance to get over the hump, you can't find out that it's worth it.

I feeling ya! Hope something shifts soon.
Last edited by oolala53 on Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

User avatar
kaalii
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:42 pm
Location: switzerland

Post by kaalii » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:49 pm

oolala53 wrote:
For clarification to another poster, the 5:2 diet is just eating about 500 calories two days a week. It is not fasting for a period of hours like 16/8.
this was already clear... :wink:
it still boils down to regularly fasting way more than 16 hours... at least, as far as 16:8 is concerned, half of it one sleeps and other good part of it one is, for the lack of better words, sufficiently fed (evening)...

for me, anything outside of occasional (f.ex. yearly, religious/cultural, circumstantional) drastic deliberate reduction in food intake, roughly under the minimum of 1200cal/day, is a big NO... lifestyle attempts at that - even bigger NO...

on noS i am absolutely sure that not a day of my life passes with that kind of math... that is without counting... but to be sure i have checked a bit... :roll: :lol:
Age:40
BMI: 18.8
Body Fat %: 17.6
in it for maintenance and, more importantly, sanity!!

Jen1974
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:49 pm
Location: Colorado

Post by Jen1974 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:28 pm

Love all the responses here!!! I thought I would add that for me it worked best to wait to eat breakfast, usually until 10 or 11 & then have lunch at the time of day were I was always super hungry & wanted a snack, around 3:00 or 4:00. This schedule changed everything for me. It even made dinners at restuarants go so much better because I wasn't too hungry so it was easier to eat just 1/2 of what I ordered & not overdo things like bread or tortilla chips. I feel like it's a bit of a fast from dinner (usually around 7:30 or 8:00) until breakfast which I like all the health benefits of too!!

Good luck, you'll feel so much better when you find something that works for you. I really believe people have to take No S & make it their own!! There was something about making the diet fit me instead of making me fit the diet that worked with No S & making small mods.

Mods:
3 meals everyday
S days I have S events (sweets or bigger portions)
Non S Days I can have S events if it's something that is either special or that only happens sometimes

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:21 pm

Jen, what you do is still pretty close to Vanilla. You eat three times a day, have S's on S days, and have an S on some weekdays. Do you have any sense of whether you end up having S's on weekdays more than a couple of times a month?
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

HoneyBeeNYC
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 pm

Post by HoneyBeeNYC » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:15 am

"I think you can do something about your looks without eating less. That's a separate issue. In fact, doing a bit more for yourself there can bolster your will to do more with your eating. Don't wait to eat better to spend a little more time sprucing up, just for yourself! "

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

OP, why not buy yourself one pretty top and one nice pair of trousers, sort of like a uniform for now, as nice as you can afford. Just one uniform. Because you won't fit into it in six months? Great! Give them away when you can no longer fit into your "uniform."

Try to look at nice as possible right now. Right now is all you have.

e-lyn
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 7:11 pm

Post by e-lyn » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:36 am

It's also hard to face that life in between our meals may not be as compelling as we'd like. Brad Pilon says no one is hungry or wants to eat when she is jumping out of an airplane, meaning that a lot of our eating is just because we aren't involved in something else more absorbing. But that's part of life. Just about everyone has to face that at times, whether they eat over it or not.
Yes. Thank you for posting this, Oolala.

MaggieMae
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:53 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Post by MaggieMae » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:48 am

Love this discussion. Some points that you've discussed are things I needed to be reminded of. I know that feeling of being a busy mom and not recognizing my reflection anymore! Looking back at photos from when my son was born compared to now3 1/2 years), I look so tired and run down. I told this to my SIL a few weeks ago and she said she is friends with twin women. One was a mom and the other never had children. She said the one with kids looks at least ten years older. So, it's our kids fault! :lol: Anyway, I get where you're coming from. I still wander off from no s and dabble in other diets occasionally because I get scared that I'll never lose weight. I needed to hear you ooh lala with the comment about life between meals not always being excited. I need to remind myself of this!

User avatar
Merry
Posts: 1658
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:14 am

Re: Still Hoping to Succeed

Post by Merry » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:25 am

Hi Ruthie,

Maybe what you need is a strategy for handling the morning. One person mentioned eating breakfast a bit later--I do that too. I often wait 1-2 hours after I'm up to eat, and then it's fewer hours until lunch if I want.

Another strategy is to have a drink that you really like to tide you over around 11. I do coffee or tea often. I've been cutting back on diet pop, but twice a week I'll have a diet pop to tide me over. Sometimes just that "something" to look forward to helps me over a hump.

Another strategy is a slightly larger breakfast, or something more filling. Maybe your breakfast is mainly carbs and it just doesn't "hold" you that long. Or maybe it's too small--experiment with what you have for breakfast to see if you can get "on habit" with this part of your day.

I do at times simply tell my hunger it's not in charge. I'm not "truly" hungry (as someone who doesn't have enough to eat is)--I have 3 great meals a day. When I was hungry in the early days, a lot of it was just because I was used to eating all day long (I never realized how much I did that until I switched to NoS!) Make your meals something you enjoy, so you'll look forward to each one. Maybe join the monthly accountability thread--sometimes that encourages people to stay on track. Or do the HabitCal--it may be kinda silly, but I get a charge out of marking my day green and seeing the green stack up. Find something that motivates YOU.

I totally agree with the others about doing something nice for you. Buy yourself a nice outfit (and if you're one of those who says you can't get one until you lose weight, you should especially do this. You deserve a nice outfit to wear, something that fits well and makes you feel attractive). Get a hair-cut that's more suited to how your hair is now, or have a stylist show you a new way of styling that will either work with the frizz or tame it (for example, a large curling iron or a straightening rod can take out frizz). Moms are so used to considering themselves last, which is noble and often needed--but not always. It's okay, and even good, to also treat yourself with self-respect in your self-care. (It sets a good example for your children as well.)

Anyway...you can do this. We're here to help & support!
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

osoniye
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Horn of Africa

Post by osoniye » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:45 am

Really, if you are having a hard time with NoS, I wouldn't even consider the 5:2 diet. It's probably not for most of us, and doesn't reflect moderation. And one study showed it had negative effects for women.
Why not try doing the No Sweets, No Seconds part for a month and go with some planned healthy snacks and then cut back on the size and number of the snacks over the following month. 2 months is not that long to establish a new habit, and a gradual approach might help you.
Take the looong view and work on finding other things to do when you feel bored, frustrated, or hungry, while being home with the kids. Maybe consider getting all the junk food out of the house, if your hubby will get on board with that. The kids will get over it and it might give you some help in making healthier choices/avoiding sweets on N days if that is a problem.
I second sprucing up just for you... do things that make you feel pretty and well cared for, maybe a nice haircut, a manicure (even do it yourself) etc.
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

germanherman
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:49 am
Location: northern germany

Post by germanherman » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:27 am

oolala53 wrote: Brad Pilon says no one is hungry or wants to eat when she is jumping out of an airplane, meaning that a lot of our eating is just because we aren't involved in something else more absorbing.
I jumped out of airplanes and i was very hungry sometimes while doing it...

:P

Intermittent fasting for me is just another diet-fad like paleo or slow carb.

It is a caloric restriction. And again there are “benefits” that seem connected to it, like:

Lower weight
higher life-expectancy
reduced cancer-risk
reduced symptoms of diabetes and alzheimers asthama and so on

The same friend, who listed the same “positive effects” regarding eating paleo-style gave me that overview for IF.

My reaction is always the same: Show me the scientific background and I will show you the blind spot:

The listed points are the natural benefits of a “caloric-restricted eating” a.k.a. eating less than you burn. If you would compare the results of IF with this form of “moderated” eating, there wouldn't be any additional benefits.

But to sell the theory, books, courses and speeches about IF, you simply compare the results with the “normal” unhealthy overeating. And tada: Your diet “heals” the people, cures cancer, repairs the ozone-layer and produce world peace.

No S Diet +Shovelglove + Urban Movement were the key for regaining my fitness, health and peace with food. And that is tremendous. But furthermore it cured me from an “diet-information”-addiction.

There is a new miracle diet based on the eating habits of the mayas? Good luck with that, I keep using moderation.

You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.

Sanity regarding diets, food and health is simply to find a moderate approach, that is doable in the long run and stick to it.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

User avatar
kaalii
Posts: 745
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:42 pm
Location: switzerland

Post by kaalii » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:45 am

germanherman wrote: But to sell the theory, books, courses and speeches about IF, you simply compare the results with the “normal” unhealthy overeating. And tada: Your diet “heals” the people, cures cancer, repairs the ozone-layer and produce world peace.
:lol:
Age:40
BMI: 18.8
Body Fat %: 17.6
in it for maintenance and, more importantly, sanity!!

HoneyBeeNYC
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 pm

Post by HoneyBeeNYC » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:52 am

germanherman wrote:
oolala53 wrote: Brad Pilon says no one is hungry or wants to eat when she is jumping out of an airplane, meaning that a lot of our eating is just because we aren't involved in something else more absorbing.
I jumped out of airplanes and i was very hungry sometimes while doing it...

:P

Intermittent fasting for me is just another diet-fad like paleo or slow carb.

It is a caloric restriction. And again there are “benefits” that seem connected to it, like:

Lower weight
higher life-expectancy
reduced cancer-risk
reduced symptoms of diabetes and alzheimers asthama and so on

The same friend, who listed the same “positive effects” regarding eating paleo-style gave me that overview for IF.

My reaction is always the same: Show me the scientific background and I will show you the blind spot:

The listed points are the natural benefits of a “caloric-restricted eating” a.k.a. eating less than you burn. If you would compare the results of IF with this form of “moderated” eating, there wouldn't be any additional benefits.

But to sell the theory, books, courses and speeches about IF, you simply compare the results with the “normal” unhealthy overeating. And tada: Your diet “heals” the people, cures cancer, repairs the ozone-layer and produce world peace.

No S Diet +Shovelglove + Urban Movement were the key for regaining my fitness, health and peace with food. And that is tremendous. But furthermore it cured me from an “diet-information”-addiction.

There is a new miracle diet based on the eating habits of the mayas? Good luck with that, I keep using moderation.

You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.

Sanity regarding diets, food and health is simply to find a moderate approach, that is doable in the long run and stick to it.
Thank you for saying what I was a bit too scared to say.

This is a very nice forum. I am, quite frankly, a little shy of expressing my opinions because you never know how people will take things on the internet where they can't hear the tone of voice, etc.

But I agree with this 100%. Fasting is violating both the spirit and the letter of moderation. Now, there may be times when you should do this. There's a doctor in Newcastle, UK, who has produced remission in diabetes patients with an 800 calorie a day diet. The idea was to mimic the effects of gastric band surgery, to produce stunning, quick, fat loss from the viscera, and see if he could relieve their diabetes. He did. But the purpose of the experiment was not weight loss (although that happened) it was to cure a deadly metabolic disorder.

The whole point of No S is to get sane about your eating habits, and let your body find its natural weight. This may well be more than your fantasies call for. At that point you should re-evaluate whether you are willing to endure discomfort for a cosmetic ideal.

I think the only truly skinny people are those who are simply that way naturally, or those who are quite literally paid to be: models, dancers, actors, some athletes. The rest of us will have a little meat on our bones, and some jiggly flesh. So what?

Thank you german-herman. (BTW, the mayans invented the tamale. :lol:

osoniye
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Horn of Africa

Post by osoniye » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:05 pm

germanherman wrote:You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.
I almost hurt myself while laughing at this! It's great to see you back around here, Herman!
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

Dale
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:27 am

Post by Dale » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:11 pm

I've tried 5:2 and it didn't work well for me. I had a friend who had good results but eventually switched to another diet. Michael Mosley (the guy who wrote the book - not the first to write about IF, but I think he popularised it) now recommends different diets - the 800 calorie Newcastle one you mentioned, HoneyBee, for reversal of diabetes, a Medterranean diet, and a kind a Meditteranean diet with two low calorie (800) days a week. So it all changes.

I will say, though, that part of the thinking behind lower calorie is that it seems to suppress appetite after a while. I have tried it and found this to be the case. It comes back very quickly if the calories are increased. But the idea is that contrary to popular belief, people get better results with lower calories and faster loss ... I suppose you then have to make a plan for maintenance. I try to keep an open mind about it all, because in some ways No S does not 100% suit me - it just suits me more than other diets!

Jen1974
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:49 pm
Location: Colorado

Post by Jen1974 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:00 pm

oolala53 wrote:Jen, what you do is still pretty close to Vanilla. You eat three times a day, have S's on S days, and have an S on some weekdays. Do you have any sense of whether you end up having S's on weekdays more than a couple of times a month?
I don't really count. It just has to be something that doesn't happen all of the time for me to consider it "special". I'm pretty selective about what's worth it though so it works for me. I could see it not working as well if I was less selective & let these events creep in more often 😊 I do like that by letting S events happen occasionally during the week it takes away the feeling of needing to take advantage of S days & sometimes I don't take any S events at all even on an S day.

MaggieMae
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:53 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Post by MaggieMae » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:16 pm

osoniye wrote:
germanherman wrote:You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.
I almost hurt myself while laughing at this! It's great to see you back around here, Herman!
:lol: I'll let you guys know if this works! Haha.

User avatar
Merry
Posts: 1658
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:14 am

Post by Merry » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:31 am

germanherman wrote: You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.
rotflol! :lol:
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

Nell1223
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:02 pm
Location: Derbyshire UK

Post by Nell1223 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:01 pm

Merry wrote:
germanherman wrote: You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.
I had a friend at school who danced around her bedroom every night wearing plastic pantaloons and and plastic blouse in the hope that she'd work up a sweat and lose weight .... She never did lose weight 😀

LifeisaBlessing
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:08 pm

Post by LifeisaBlessing » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:40 pm

So many wise things said in this thread! Two quotes really stood out for me:
oolala53 wrote:It's also hard to face that life in between our meals may not be as compelling as we'd like. Brad Pilon says no one is hungry or wants to eat when she is jumping out of an airplane, meaning that a lot of our eating is just because we aren't involved in something else more absorbing. But that's part of life. Just about everyone has to face that at times, whether they eat over it or not.
So true! The temptation to fill the inactive life times with food can be very compelling. With practice and utilizing the NoS principles, you can gain the discipline to overcome these temptations, whenever they appear.



germanherman wrote:Sanity regarding diets, food and health is simply to find a moderate approach, that is doable in the long run and stick to it.

In a nutshell, germanherman nailed why NoS can be so effective.

I know I've been guilty in the past of going for the "bells and whistles" approach to dieting and exercising. Getting that brand new colorful package in the mail of the latest exercise transformation system, buying the latest and greatest diet book--all the time thinking, "THIS time, I've finally found 'it'--the exercise program/diet//eating plan that will give me the results I'm looking for!" When all along, the answer was so much simpler!
I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.
~Jimmy Dean

The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective.
~El Fug, on the NoS Diet

HoneyBeeNYC
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 pm

Post by HoneyBeeNYC » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:13 pm

I just want immediate results. I've learned to say to myself the following: how are you feeling right now? do you feel good? healthy? Are you really going to feel that much better if you're thin?

When I was in my gaining mode the last 3-4 months that's how I would keep myself from going crazy with despair. It probably is true that that kind of thinking maybe fosters complacency, but it also keeps you from going really crazy. so I think the answer is try to find the balance. Keep your eyes on the prize.

germanherman
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:49 am
Location: northern germany

Post by germanherman » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:21 pm

HoneyBeeNYC wrote: This is a very nice forum. I am, quite frankly, a little shy of expressing my opinions because you never know how people will take things on the internet where they can't hear the tone of voice, etc.
The people on this board are the salt of the earth. I never seen an internet forum with such kind-hearted, soft-spoken men and mostly women before.
HoneyBeeNYC wrote: I think the only truly skinny people are those who are simply that way naturally, or those who are quite literally paid to be: models, dancers, actors, some athletes. The rest of us will have a little meat on our bones, and some jiggly flesh. So what?
I still believe, that a combination of urban rangering, no s diet and 14 minutes of anything (kind of the trinity) can result in a "skinny"-look if done for a very long time.
But is that really a goal, or is it a byproduct?

For years the three systems were my baseline, my everyday default. They changed me and by that also my life enough for a lot of positive effects regarding everything but my bodyform.

Spending a little bit more effort for the “sixpack-covermodel”- look became possible. So in addition to the everyday systems I went running/swimming a few time the week and also hit the gym. I had very fast results, but I also had to consume more calories to build muscles. So I had the “mod” the no s Diet to gain weight.

In the end the additional efforts weren't worth the results. For 6 month I returned to doing just the three systems. And you know what: My form bodyform stayed mostly the same. I lost a little bit of weight (mostly muscle) and lost a little bit of the puffed form, but I'm still thin, I can still see my abs and i'm still strong for a non-athlete.

So sometimes I go for a run, to clear my head and I do some martial arts for some inner peace, but my fit, healthy body and my sanity regarding food are the results of the systems and persistence.

And if someone asks me, what the greatest benefit is? To have peace with food! To forget about calorie-counting, miracle foods and “kick-ass”-workout routines. Just to enjoy life (in moderation ;) ) and care for the more important things. And for that I don't need a specific weight, or a low BMI. So the point were I reached the zen-like space, was long before I reached a weight even close to my so called “ideal weight”.

Tl,dr: Sanity and peace of mind are the goal, a “skinny” look is absolut optional.

P.S. I never heard of tamale before, but it looks tasty.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

germanherman
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:49 am
Location: northern germany

Post by germanherman » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:36 pm

osoniye wrote:
germanherman wrote:You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.
I almost hurt myself while laughing at this! It's great to see you back around here, Herman!
Fun fact: That "secret" to dieting is from the last diet-book i ever "enjoyed".

Can anyone guess which one that was?
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

LifeisaBlessing
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:08 pm

Post by LifeisaBlessing » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:09 pm

germanherman wrote:
osoniye wrote:
germanherman wrote:You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.
I almost hurt myself while laughing at this! It's great to see you back around here, Herman!
Fun fact: That "secret" to dieting is from the last diet-book i ever "enjoyed".

Can anyone guess which one that was?
Was it the Lifehacker book?

https://www.amazon.com/Lifehacker-Worki ... 1118018370
I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.
~Jimmy Dean

The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective.
~El Fug, on the NoS Diet

germanherman
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:49 am
Location: northern germany

Post by germanherman » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:47 am

LifeisaBlessing wrote:
germanherman wrote:
osoniye wrote:
germanherman wrote:You can lose weight by doing 20 squats before using the toilet? Have fun and don't hurt yourself.
I almost hurt myself while laughing at this! It's great to see you back around here, Herman!
Fun fact: That "secret" to dieting is from the last diet-book i ever "enjoyed".

Can anyone guess which one that was?
Was it the Lifehacker book?

https://www.amazon.com/Lifehacker-Worki ... 1118018370
No. But the book in question is close to that.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

User avatar
MamieTamar
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: Jerusalem

Post by MamieTamar » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:13 am

[quote="germanherman"


My reaction is always the same: Show me the scientific background and I will show you the blind spot: "


https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/ ... ng-part-9/
age 77
SBMI:29
CBMI: 27,7

User avatar
lpearlmom
Posts: 4812
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:59 am
Location: Arizona

Post by lpearlmom » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:19 am

germanherman wrote: And if someone asks me, what the greatest benefit is? To have peace with food! To forget about calorie-counting, miracle foods and “kick-ass”-workout routines. Just to enjoy life (in moderation ;) ) and care for the more important things. And for that I don't need a specific weight, or a low BMI. So the point were I reached the zen-like space, was long before I reached a weight even close to my so called “ideal weight”.

Wow, I loved your post. Really awesome and wise stuff there. I think I needed to hear that today so thanks.

Linda
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 172
GW:160

germanherman
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:49 am
Location: northern germany

Post by germanherman » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:11 pm

MamieTamar wrote:[quote="germanherman"
My reaction is always the same: Show me the scientific background and I will show you the blind spot: "

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/ ... ng-part-9/
The links sounds interesting, but I can't open it. When I try, I get a login-request. I don't know the right username and password.

But even if I could open it: I guess it is one of thousands of comparing articles. I googled “caloric restriction vs intermittent fasting” and got 861 000 results. That's not clarity, that is insanity.

You give me one site that says “it's good” and I can find you one that says “it's a hoax”.

So if you want to review the “science” on that site, plz tell me what the benefits of an intermittent fasting over a prolonged caloric restriction are.
Spend over 450 Dollar on some Systems, Gadgets and courses = Zero Results

Spend 15 Bucks for a Shovelglove + NoS-Diet= ;)

German by nature

User avatar
MamieTamar
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: Jerusalem

Post by MamieTamar » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:34 pm

No GermanHerman, it's a bug, the blog is open to everybody. You know what? Just try intensivedietarymanagement.com, then in the Tags (right column),chose "fasting", and take your pick from the umpteen articles on the subject !

The reason I'm giving this link is because Dr Fung isn't "one of the thousand", he's a very competent and dedicated doctor (a real one) who treats, and cures, diabetes by fasting (and obesity while he's at it). His blog is extremely knowledgeable and anything but a hoax.

You may not agree with him, but playing him down would be a downright mistake.
age 77
SBMI:29
CBMI: 27,7

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:29 am

I actually like Fung, and have often said that the game is very different when a person has a disease. That's when the "diet" guns need to come out. But they need to target the condition; weight loss may happen or not. Reinhard has never claimed No S is about curing disease. He's much too rational for that. Healing might happen, but unlike diets for disease, it's a side effect.

But it did bug me that Fung called his book The Obesity Code. I wonder if the publishers pushed for targeting obesity, rather than a particular disease. Obviously, it is NOT necessary to follow his regime to conquer obesity.

I am in the midst, for various reasons, not weight loss, but I'd rather not get into it, of using some modified fasting days (a version of IF.) And I can tell you the advantage is more long term compliance. A common two-day average for me is 1150 and I can tell you right now there is NO way I would be willing to live on enforced 1150 calories each day. I would not have been okay with MF 6+ years ago when I started, and almost certainly not back in the day. But it's helping me now. But I don't talk about it much, unlike how I was if anyone asked about how I was losing before. I used to like talking about NO S! Got tired of the suspicion Now, I do it mostly online.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

User avatar
MamieTamar
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: Jerusalem

Post by MamieTamar » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:11 am

I have "The Obesity Code", and it is all about obesity proper. Fung is preparing two other books : one on fasting, and one on diabetes. Obviously, there are other ways to conquer obesity, and he says so himself, but I saw how effective a very mild form of IF helped my husband (12 kilos in a few months' time). It also helped me break an extremely stubborn plateau.

Fung sees obesity (not mere overweight) as a disease, having the same cause as diabetes and leading directly to it.
age 77
SBMI:29
CBMI: 27,7

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:52 am

I've had a fair amount of success fasting between three meals on N days, and eating carbs the whole way (as do the long living, non-obese people of the Blue Zones) . Which is why I'm on No S.


But this is getting off the IF (theme of the thread) track...
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

User avatar
MamieTamar
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: Jerusalem

Post by MamieTamar » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:40 am

I didn't have much success on NoS, because quite honestly, it wasn't that different from what I'd been doing all my life. I was born and raised in France at the end of the war, at a time when wasting a crust of bread was very much frowned upon. As a child, a sweet was a treat that I saw only a few times a year. And yet, in a class of 45, I was the only overweight child.

So I liked No S, I liked the forum, but it did not do much for my weight, I needed something a little more drastic. Currently, I skip breakfast, eat two good meals a day, somewhat reduce carbs and practice walking and cycling. This is what I feel I can do to the end of my life, and it helps in the meantime.
age 77
SBMI:29
CBMI: 27,7

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:51 pm

This is actually in keeping with No S, MamieT. Having two meals and changing the content on your plate could technically be mods, especially because it sounds like you are doing it routinely. You're still not snacking, I doubt you eat sweets much (eventually, on No S, they can become VERY occasional or even never and you'd still be No S), and I imagine you don't sit and keep picking or having more after you've eaten your meal very often. I would think you SOMETIMES have a little bigger meal or a snack on a special day? Exercise was never an official part of it, but Reinhard recommends it and has his Urban Ranger and Shovelglove recommendations. You're just skipping the Shovelglove (or its equivalent).

Now that I'm older, I, too, skip meals and sometimes eat fewer carbs. I prefer that to eating three tinier meals to try to match my hunger. Though I may have coffee, lightened, before work. I think of it as my French breakfast without the tartine.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

User avatar
MamieTamar
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:12 pm
Location: Jerusalem

Post by MamieTamar » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:45 pm

Exactly ! I'm not only older than you but smaller too (5.00), and I need fewer calories than I like to admit. When I have a meal, I like having a MEAL, not a big snack, so in turns out that in order to do that, I have to be content with two.

Yes, I agree it's a mod of NoS. I describe it to myself as a " blend of NoS, easy IF and reduced carbs". But it takes that much. Vanilla just wouldn't do it.

I skip the shovelglove because of various aches and pains which do not allow it, and replace it with a bit of stretching.
age 77
SBMI:29
CBMI: 27,7

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:03 am

If it's any consolation, the women in the Blue Zones (areas of longevity without degenerative disease) tend to eat much less than what is considered "necessary" or "healthy" in this culture. Maybe a lot of the women are short, but I read that they average (which means sometimes even less (!) but sometimes more- for their version of S days, I'd guess) 900-1500 calories a day. And not because they are on a diet. I'm realizing that they inadvertently practice CR. Their food choices get a lot of attention (from me, too) but it may be simply that they just eat a lot less. Just not to be thin. That's just a side effect.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:06 pm

And guess what. When those cultures get exposed to modern foods, they overeat and put on weight, too.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Ruthie71
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:37 pm

Post by Ruthie71 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:53 pm

Thank you for all your responses to my original post "Still Hoping to Succeed". I appreciate it :-)

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:05 am

Our pleasure.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

User avatar
Merry
Posts: 1658
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:14 am

Post by Merry » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:07 pm

Ruthie71 wrote:Thank you for all your responses to my original post "Still Hoping to Succeed". I appreciate it :-)
How are you doing these days? Are mornings getting any better for you?
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.
2 years and counting on No-S.
29 lbs. down, 34 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.
Respect Moderation

Post Reply