Everyday Systems

Who's ready to commit? I'll start but I don't want to do this on my own.😉 I'd really like to make this the year I kick the evening snack habit. So far so good. I'm at 100% success on day 2!!!

Way to go, Ginger! Keep it up!

(BTW, have you ever read Ginger Pye? Every time I see your name, I think of that! My kids loved that book!)

ANYWAY...I'm with you for 2018!

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I am here!!!

Count me inðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ·to 2018

I'm game

Yes, i'm in . And i'm fighting (mainly) the same battle as you are Gingerpie; evening snacking.

Count me in!!

I don't think I've ever done a challenge as long as I've done NoS, but I'm going to give this a try! Here's to a great 2018!
Mimi

I'll be a voyeur.

I'm addressing the prevalence of fasting "talk" on the the boards because I'm a little concerned about it.

I know it sounds great - Promising talk about how "light" and "healthy" you feel during fasting and how "effortless" it is once you find 'the right window for your body' . . .and I admit I'm tempted to give it a go. But . . .if you can't make it from breakfast to lunch "fasting" (i.e. snackl-ess) or if, like me, you aren't yet consistently making it from dinner to bedtime without an indulgence of some sort, then I really don't think Intermittent Fasting is a viable option. I say this because the "Why did you leave? Why are you back? thread is full of people who left to try either IF or IE and end up back here at their same starting weight or higher.

I'm putting this out there for anyone who is feeling a bit shaky on no-s and might need a little extra support against the pull of (yet another) promise of a better way.

I think the folks that have successfully incorporated fasting into their lifestyle probably have been at no-s a long time (think years- not months) and more importantly, have been able to wrack up month after month of no-s compliance. I honestly don't think it is for those of us who still see a lot of red on our habitcal.

Thoughts?

I'm with you, GP, although there are some people who do better with eating even less often that the common meal structure, there aren't whole societies who live that way, and one of the main thoughts that helped me when I started was that there was so much proof that it was a viable way to live. When I would get discouraged or challenged, I'd think, "I'm not asking myself to do anything that whole cultures have done: no "diet' can claim that" The fasting regimes these days do not have enough of a track record to show that they're any more successful than other diets that have been promoted for over 150 years at getting people to permanently and comfortably reduce their eating, which is the major target, if habit maintenance is the real goal. The internet can make it look like there's a lot of success with anything, but added up I doubt that there are more than the normal 3-5% who are still at it five years later, and that's counting the ones who stuck with it past a year. Even if it's 10%, it still means there are 90% failures, and that to me means more people feeling defeated and likely shamed. And no one is keeping track of the dropout rate.

I did use it for awhile but talked about it only on my thread and there only after I'd been at it for awhile and sparingly even then because there are other places to support it. I could not sustain it during more trying times even though I'd been at some versions of it for 18 months, and I ended up rebounding back to rather old habits, not even just back to Vanilla, after six years of good success and certainly gaining the little I lost, though loss was never my intention. Those who have serious health conditions probably need more drastic measures, but three plates of mostly non-manufactured food will serve probably 80% of us quite well.

That's a lot of rant to say basically to get real good at skipping snacks, sweets, and seconds AND commit to SOMETIMES on S days. That last part can be the trickiest.

I'm in, too. I maintained in 2017 after 25 pounds lost in 2016 with probably 60% compliance. Now onward to addressing afternoon snacking and I hope, getting out of the obese range. So close!

Rose

Yes please. I remember committing to the 2017 year challenge thinking that it seemed like such a long time to commit to, but really wanting to do it nevertheless. Well the year just whizzed by! I have maintained my weight loss for the past 4 months or so and while I would like to gradually lose a little more this year, my main priority is to stick to Vanilla NoS.
Good luck to everyone on this thread, may 2018 be a great year for NoS!

Also (sorry!) I want to add my voice of agreement to Gingerpie and Oolala’s comments about IF. I feel very strongly that these boards are for and about NoS, and only NoS. They are primarily for supporting those who are trying to learn eating habits that can be for life. Eating with moderation, three meals a day, occassional ‘treats’ - that is all. Talk of other methods just muddies the waters and takes away from the beauty of the simplicity of NoS.
Rant over

I support anyone mulling over what they want on check in threads. I can always choose to start skipping them if I see the trend. I hope the main board stays with No S, though. I want to be able to come and be part of the same tribe.

oolala53 wrote:AND commit to SOMETIMES on S days. That last part can be the trickiest.

understatement of the year! (Of course, the year is only 3 days old...)

Maybe someday I'll learn this though!

CamperRose wrote:I'm in, too. I maintained in 2017 after 25 pounds lost in 2016 with probably 60% compliance. Now onward to addressing afternoon snacking and I hope, getting out of the obese range. So close!

Rose

Rose, we're like twins! I lost about 22 lbs. in 2016, and mostly maintained in 2017 (lost 5 or so more), and am right on the verge of getting out of the obese range (currently I'm bouncing in and out of it, which is closer than I've been in years). Anyway, let's do this!

Bluebell wrote:Yes please. I remember committing to the 2017 year challenge thinking that it seemed like such a long time to commit to, but really wanting to do it nevertheless. Well the year just whizzed by! I have maintained my weight loss for the past 4 months or so and while I would like to gradually lose a little more this year, my main priority is to stick to Vanilla NoS.
Good luck to everyone on this thread, may 2018 be a great year for NoS!

Good for you! Here's to a great year for NoS! I really appreciate the monthly & yearly challenges. I want to do No-S for life, and it's nice to have encouragement along the way, and others to enjoy the simplicity of it with. A little spark of competition sometimes keeps me going. Now, if I could just find a way to make exercise seem like a game, I'd be set! (I often think, if exercise seemed as fun as playing a game on our tablet, I'd be a lot more regular with it!) Although doing a Habitcal for that in 2017 did help some.

oolala53 wrote:I support anyone mulling over what they want on check in threads. I can always choose to start skipping them if I see the trend. I hope the main board stays with No S, though. I want to be able to come and be part of the same tribe.

Agreed, sorry I should have specified, personal check ins are of course for individuals to discuss what is helpful to them. I just meant that the spirit and purpose of the discussion board should be NoS, that’s what we’re here for!

I am also committed for the year, again.

My strategy at the moment is not to overthink it, in fact, try not to dwell on it too much, just fill my three plates generously and enjoy them and then move on. Keeping busy helps.

Oh my this is a big commitment.

I'm in? Scared, though. The last time I maintained my thread regularly was 2013/2014. Otherwise it seems a month or two is all I stay on the boards for before getting distracted.

I know that the challenge is just to DO NoS for the year, but I need the accountability of check-in. So maybe my commitment can take the form of definitely chiming in once a month.

At the moment I'm all over my check-in thread, but Lord knows when that energy will fizzle.

Off to the races, tribe!

Automatedeating,
I think you posted somewhere that you wanted to automate your dietary choices much like your father. Have you been able to develop any default meals to help streamline your efforts?

I was thinking of you today because I was looking at some ideas for "grab-n-go" breakfasts. I assume you know there is a thread somewhere titled "Diatary defaults". Maybe it's a sticky?

My official goals for January 2018.

1) Clean up my no-s act. I think I've gotten a bit sloppy on some of the details and as a consequence my "fence" could use some paint and repair.
2) Track evening wine/snacks only. Everything else is more or less compliant.
3) Eliminate alcohol except for true special occasions. I'll allow things like my anniversary and major holiday meals. Honestly, once our anniversary is passed, I don't think there is another occasion until Memorial day. I expect this to be somewhat challenging when out with my husband as we are used to enjoying drinks together. - He's pretty tightfisted though so once he realizes how much money I'm saving on the bill he'll be totally on board with it

I like to put my goals out there so that when I conveniently "forget" what I decided I can go back and find it. It might sound a goofy but you'd be amazed at how many times I've been in a situation and literally forgot what I had decided was a reasonable solution. At least this way, I can't fool myself.

I'm in. No-S-er since just before Thanksgiving, 2017. I have learned a LOT. I have not started to lose weight yet, but now I know that when I start obsessing about weight, it is much harder to maintain my vanilla No-S. I learned that lesson REAL GOOD at the end of 2017. It felt almost comforting to take new year/new you off the table and just recommit to the very simple principles of No-S. Four green days so far this year, and those were the only days so far this year, so so far, so good.

I haven't really ever automated my meals like my dad. Sigh.

I am going to go check out those dietary defaults right away!

I'm in for the year! I'm tired of calorie counting and it not making much difference overall to weight loss.

January goals:
- a 21 day NoS streak
- be mindful of having balanced plates of food, whatever the day
- improve meal planning
- complete the 30 day yoga challenge

I'm intending to do No-S all year. Is that what this challenge is? If so, I'm in.

I've been on the system since late September, and I'm still working on getting 5 greens a week on my calendar. I do feel that some of the habits are getting to be automatic, such as not eating sweets during the week. This is a big deal for me, as I was eating dessert or a sweet afternoon snack every day, sometimes twice a day.

I am hoping to be testimonial-worthy sometime this spring.

I am in. Looking forward to a great year with everyone.

*Specifically for three meals per day, 1 plate per meal—every day.

Welcome, All! I expect we'll see people joining at various times during January and even some after that.

Gingerpie, I have forgotten I wasn't going to do X a half hour after I said I wouldn't and didn't realize until a few hours later that I had just plain forgotten. It doesn't even feel at those times like I "conveniently" forgot. I just forgot!

Auto, chime in as often as it takes to keep you on track. If I may say, ponder a bit how you don't want to be reporting next year that the effort fizzled after a couple of months. I mean, you can do this for a year and then let it fizzle if it's not very fun. But at least you'd have something to compare it to.

Though people didn't do it last year, I think if someone wants to use this as their check-in, that's fine. It would probably be better to have a thread if you want to muse more, though there's no rule against it.

I'm in for this! Hoping to get back to the initial success/satisfaction I felt when I started No S long ago.

I am “free-styling†with No S! How about you!
I noticed weight watchers new deal has always been OUR deal. LOL!!
My official goals for 2018.
Vanilla No S
Move my body aim for 5 days/week

I am back to work tomorrow. We start back with a meeting...ugh...

I am in!! Back to work and school here tomorrow. My goal is to focus on habit, habit, habit and to still be here next year at this time without having jumped ship AT ALL to Weight Watchers!! Hubby is doing this with me as well! "Just Do It" is my motto!....one day at a time!

ONWARD>>

I'd love to join too. I started No S in Dec and then had the festive holiday season with folk staying for more than a fortnight....I just tried to be sensible!! Now is the time to apply my mind to getting 'vanilla no S' (I'm learning the lingo ) in my head and in my routines. So, count me in for the whole of 2018.

Just also wanted to say I was delighted to find a 2018 challenge this morning when I logged on. And it is comforting to find a discussion about just sticking to 'No S' when just now we are surrounded with new and other ways to loose weight. One focus - no distracting glittery promises from elsewhere - that is what I need.

I'm very happy with the way my 1st week went. My meals are a bit bigger than I'd like but I've successfully stuck to "nothing after dinner" for 7 days now. That's much better than I was able to do last month. I attribute this in large part to the reality of public embarrassment. I've committed to detailing why I fail when I do. After a few weeks, I was embarrassed to have to admit publicly that I failed because "it was there" or "because my husband opened a bottle of wine" or (my personal favorite) "because my niece was visiting". What? Really? After a month of playing true confessions, I felt like I must not have any independent decision making ability at all!! But I'm happy to report that so far in January when I think about a glass of wine or an evening snack the initial urge is closely followed by thinking, "What am I going to write as an explanation?" I'm sorry, "We were sitting on the couch watching old episodes of 'The Office' just doesn't seem like a reasonable excuse anymore.
Reinhardt talks about this in one of his podcasts: #41 called the "What the Hell" Effect and Negative Qualification. found here: https://everydaysystems.com/podcast/episode.php?id=41

I've also recommitted to my system (or process depending on how your brain works) James clear does a nice job of talking about the improvement that happens when one commits to the process without worrying about the end result so much. I think it's a really nice compliment to nos if you are of the mindset of "This is the lifestyle I want to live" as opposed to "This is the weight I want to be".

Hope you all are doing well here in our first week of 2018. [/i]

Hurray ginger!! What a cool post and hilarious too. I laughed out loud when you mentioned the Office.

Also, committing to the process and not worrying about the end result. Ah, yes, yes, yes!

Yes, Yes....the process is what I am committing to as well....even though I really did not like the number I saw on the scale this morning!! The process....habit...that is the goal! I ended up with a snow day my first day back. So far, so good. I went for an hour long walk in the snow and listened to some of Reinhardt's podcasts while walking. I came back feeling refreshed! Going to work on getting my house in order today. Thankful for the extra day. We have a big shindig for our church care group here on Saturday, so the extra time is nice!

Hope you all have a wonderful day!

ZippaDee wrote:Yes, Yes....the process is what I am committing to as well....even though I really did not like the number I saw on the scale this morning!! The process....habit...that is the goal! I ended up with a snow day my first day back. So far, so good. I went for an hour long walk in the snow and listened to some of Reinhardt's podcasts while walking. I came back feeling refreshed! Going to work on getting my house in order today. Thankful for the extra day. We have a big shindig for our church care group here on Saturday, so the extra time is nice!

Hope you all have a wonderful day!

Probably fortunately I've realised that either my scales are broken, or my floor is... I happened to move my scales on the weekend and realised that my weight varied by about 7kg depending where the scales were on the floor!! No idea which is the accurate value although I'm seriously hoping it's one on the lower end. A good incentive to focus on habits versus numbers I'll also use the good old 'how tight are my jeans' metric (current status: very tight).

Whew!! That was a close one! We bought a new car yesterday (it's a long sad tale) and on the way home I was very close to suggesting we stop for a bottle of wine to "celebrate" the new car. Then I imagined what exactly I was going to write by way of explanation and decided that written out it sounded pretty lame. . . As expected, it made no difference to my evening and today I'm happy to have succeeded.

Enjoy the day everyone.

I'm in! So far, so good. Only one red day so far, and it was on the heels of two sick days and I had cookies for lunch at work because we were stupid busy the week before classes started. This was not a normal thing for me by any means.

I bought the book yesterday and read through it.

I’m in! My goal is to still be here in December with the report of some consistent habits. I would love to see what happens if I really stay consistent for awhile.

Only one way to find out, Tracey.

I think I will add a few more specific goals...maybe one a month?!

Did you get that idea (a good one) from one of Reinhard's podcasts? I'm not sure which one it is, but I think it's fairly obvious if you look at the titles. He believes a month is a good time to make one habit the focus. I think he means to make it something you can absolutely do, no waffling. The least thing that you think might also make a difference. And remember that the goal should be an established habit, not a result. Not, have a tidy bedroom, but hang up my clothes before bed and make the bed in the morning. And not a whole list of things.

Goal weights are just not predictable on this program. The body is too adaptable. But a behavior goal is a target you can hit every day. You probably won't know ahead of time what would be a good next adjustment to the foundation will be.

I recommend also listening to "Chain of Command." (I'm going to revue these, too.)

Have fun.

I listened to the "what the hell effect" podcast yesterday. It is another winner. I think I now understand the concept of marking it red and moving on. I particularly liked Reinhard's theory that beating yourself up over transgressions, in a twisted way, lets you off the hook, because you think that making yourself unhappy means you've "paid" for your sins. If I understand this right, some people have daily check-ins in order to report specifically on their red days? So that they can say "I walked past a tray of cookies and mindlessly stuffed one in my mouth and it wasn't an S-Day, but oh well. There, I said it." And then they can move on. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, this sounds like a good idea, and I will resuscitate my check-in page.

So far this year, no red days. I'm trying to think about what sets me up for a fail, during this period when I am not as tempted. Here are the first two things: 1. Weight and Scales and Diet Head, 2. Unpleasant Emotions, followed instantly by the thought that I should not have to feel them and life is unfair.

Very curious about what anyone else has to say about this.

Hi Chotzinoff,

I think you're right on target with using the check-in thread a way to "mark it and move on". In December, I started admitting my transgressions publicly on the monthly Challenge thread. My method was to edit my original post and add notes on the days that I failed. I thought it was very helpful to be able to read just how lame my "excuses" sounded and to have them all in one place. so I couldn't fool myself about either the number or the reasons.

Best of luck to you.

Chotzinoff, if you a look at the check-in forum, you'll see variations on what people do. If you look at Reinhard's, you'll see it's quite minimalist, but then he didn't have much resistance or difficulty with the process.

Many do a lot more analyzing than was ever called for, but if that's what it takes, so be it. Ever Reinhard says it's the mental side of things that usually makes the difference, not stumbling on the perfect eating plan that makes it all downhill. (I've made thousands of posts, so...) Having a check in thread makes it easier to pull together one's own musings and for other members to follow, rather than having to scroll down through it all.

I"m pretty sure Reinhard didn't advocate for negative tracking until one found that simple tracking on Habitcal wasn't doing the job. But it's your call.

The possible problem with negative tracking is if Mark it and Move on gets pushed to the side in favor of a focus on the darkness of the failure.

Oolala, I think Reinhard was suggesting mark it and move on instead of spiraling down into self-hatred and what-the-hell. I'm going to give it a try, anyway. I've read your entire check-in, all those pages. Thanks for every word of it.

I think I'll give the challenge a shot. A year isn't so very long, looking back at it; it's only looking forward it seems daunting.

If I succeed, a year from now I'll be glad I started when I did. If I don't succeed, hopefully I'll have learned something from the attempt.

OK, I'm in. It just so happens that it's January that I happen to be back in place after a long vacation and holiday trip. I weigh about what I did at my highest weight ever. I don't feel like I look particularly huge or fat, but most of my clothes are too tight, so there it is.
I want to give Vanilla NoS a fair try this year. 3 plates per day, sweets on the weekend, ideally added to my plate, but if not, so be it. I'd like to keep the real capital S days for holidays, my birthday, maybe a few special vacation days, etc.
But the very bottom line is No Sweets, Snacks or Seconds on normal weekdays. Put like that, it really doesn't sound that hard!

Savor, on that note of how long a year seems, it helped me to put in perspective by thinking about how many years I had spent thinking I could get to ease in a few weeks. Being 56 and grappling with it all for decades, I realized a year was the least I could give! The few people I've known what happened to when they moved on said the discipline and the 3-meal structure were central. (I interpreted what they were doing was actually still No S with mods. But whom am I to tell them what they're doing?)

You read my whole thread? Yikes! You know me better than my family. I (read big, big I) haven't even gone back.

I hope you "get it" even better and faster than I did. I think we never hear from a lot of people like that. They move on to "life in between," which is still one of my goals.

I'm so afraid to commit because I was such a failure last year. I haven't even got back on track after the holiday yet. I went shopping tonight and tried on clothes for a trip we'll be going on. You see where this is going don't you. Haha. Skin revealing dresses and sleeveless shirts showing all the extra pudge in those evil dressing room mirrors. My mind was spinning.... calorie counting? Low carb? Paleo?after the panic died down,I came on here to get motivated to get back to sanity. This will be my year! Good luck, every one!

Welcome home, MM!

Preach alert!

Please don't let the trip rule your efforts. After the trip happens, you may lose your incentive and go downhill... maybe even on the trip. Once in awhile, that kind of thing sets off better habits that STAY, but I'd be surprised if that's typical. Have an incentive that's longer term than that.

Just try to get from meal gap to meal gap at first. Always remember that you just ate a few hours ago and will again in a few hours. You can do it! No matter what you're experiencing, there's probably a 99% chance it's NOT a need for food. It's just a need for your body to burn up its fuels. See if you can treat it as a trifle or alternately, treat it like a migraine or severe nausea or a fever: if it's that painful, lie down as soon as you can and let it happen. Even with meds, those aren't always soothed by them. It will pass.

Think: what ELSE besides weight loss makes me want to eat moderately? Am I going to eat the way I eat now forever? Will I go back to it if I don't lose, even though I'm eating less?

If your previous "why" isn't working, look for another why that is underneath and probably more important.

And read and reread the book!

Hi Oolala, I noticed that Chotzinoff had read all your previous posts, so I went looking and have read a bit of your initial journey. It is really encouraging to read your struggles then and to know that you are still such an advocate and expert lots of years on. thanks! I hope that I am still going in 7+years.

Me, too.

One piece of advice I read somewhere that has stuck with me is to incorporate changes into your identity. You are not depriving yourself, you are just not that kind of person.

"I'm someone who likes to eat at mealtimes."

"As I get older, I don't drink soda anymore. It taste sickly sweet."

"As a busy mom/executive/athlete/whatever, I don't have time for eating between meals."

"I just don't like getting that weird movie popcorn butter on my hands. I'm the kind of person who would rather enjoy the movie than be chewing."

"I like to eat my meals off nice dishes, with cloth napkins, at the table. We are not the kind of people who eat from containers in this house."

Pick some behavior that would help you improve your eating, then say it to yourself a lot, and to other people, too. I know these can sound kind of snobby, but they work for reframing who I am and what behavior is normal for me. If I violate one of them, I can frame it in my head as "that weird thing I did because I was on a road trip with so-and-so" and not the norm.

Good advice jenji, if I'm offered a snack or a sweet during the week I try not to go into long complicated discussions about NoS and dieting, I just say 'no thanks I don't snack between meals' or 'I only eat dessert on the weekends'. It helps reinforce to myself what kind of habits I have for eating as well as being a response to other people. Often a simple 'no thanks' works a lot better than we fear it will though!

milliem wrote:Good advice jenji, if I'm offered a snack or a sweet during the week I try not to go into long complicated discussions about NoS and dieting, I just say 'no thanks I don't snack between meals' or 'I only eat dessert on the weekends'. It helps reinforce to myself what kind of habits I have for eating as well as being a response to other people. Often a simple 'no thanks' works a lot better than we fear it will though!

Yes, I've found that the person who needs more reinforcement is me. I thought there would be peer pressure, but it was bigger in my head than real life.

Thanks for the advice oolala! I'm going to try to get back on it tomorrow and get those habits back. I'm a stress eater and I need to get it under control.

The No S Diet book arrived at our house on Saturday - I'm part way through, and one of the many tips and pieces of advice that I have appreciated is the idea of brushing my teeth after eating. So, I've just had breakfast and I know what I'm going to have for lunch and tea (that's dinner for us in Scotland) and now I am going to go and brush my teeth to mark the end of this plate (well, bowl). Does anyone else do this?

No, but teeth brushing as a "meal ender" was also recommended on the Mindless Eating website years ago when they had that feature. (And it is a good one for more than one reason!) I'll do something more like have a hot beverage. I have about 12 ounces of coffee in the morning, and may split my one big mug so that I have some at the end of breakfast. I like to keep it to things very close to the meal experience so that it doesn't get complicated by too many other behaviors that I then become dependent on or feel Ive failed for not doing. Really, having any other activity to do that gets me away from the meal environment is useful. But even that can take discipline when there's not a lot else that a body might be rarin' to go do.

I find brushing my teeth fairly soon after dinner (and getting into to my pjs) helps my mind think food is all done for the day even if I stay up a couple more hours.

After breakfast I just like to so I don't have bad breath at work, haha.

Yes! I've just started doing this. My teeth are brushed and I am in my pj's at the moment. I like it too because I can brush my teeth right after dinner now and when I am tired and ready for bed it is already done!! I can just head to bed.

First red day of 2018. Went to book club, which is a NWS event for me (we have it every six weeks or so and the person whose book we're discussing brings a treat, and I decided last year, after struggling a lot with being the only one not partaking of things people had lovingly provided, to make book club evenings a NWS event, so not the entire day - it only counts at book club). So yesterday all was fine until I got home AFTER book club and sat down to catch up with my boys and started mindlessly nibbling.

Oh well. Onwards and upwards. I got off to a great start the past two weeks and this one red day won't destroy that.

And we have to live in the real world too, so I think your decision for join in once every six weeks is a good one. Well done for getting more than halfway through before getting a red day. There is always another day coming up!

Eating at events or even out with others was often paired with my eating again when I got home, though mine was always when I was alone. It usually felt VERY weird- not exactly hard, more weird- when I stopped doing it. But sometimes it was hard, too. BEST time to reprogram!

Indeed, Heather and Oolala - thanks for the support! And what is that about being out at an evening event with others and then coming home and eating afterwards? That has been a big sticking point for me for many years. I've always thought it to be a kind of self calming behavior and have actively looked for other things to replace it - like tea. But old patterns are slow to die, I guess.

Yesterday was the worst day I've had in a long time. Don't even know what happened but I ended up eating multiple small sized candy bars and (unbelievable to me) I had tortilla chips and cheese for dinner, after dinner and before bed!! I felt worse than I can remember in a long time. Not sure if it's related but I'm also in a bit of a funk. Hard to tell though what came first, the funk for the food. Well, in any case. Started with a banana for breakfast today and have a decent lunch packed. We shall see what the day brings.

I love your affirmations, jenji. "I'm not the kind of person who..."
I'll remember those and make up a few of my own as well.

I am going to No S in 2018, after another failed attempt at WW.
I don't know why I keep going back there--I thought the new
Freestyle system sounded promising, but it's not really, at least
not for me.
Started No S again yesterday.

Who really knows why we overeat after events? My reading these days makes me wonder why we don't overeat even more than we do, given excess cheap high-desirability food available. Once eating gets paired with the countless events/situations it can, the pattern can be stimulated at almost any repeat situation, including any IN OUR MEMORIES! It doesn't even have to be happening in the moment. Geesh! Solution? Have routine times and approximate amounts to get fed, (sound familiar?) have a few ways to "let the fish run with the line,' and then get a lot of practice holding on and reeling in!

I (read that big big I) know why you went back to WW. Because the diet and manufactured food industries work hand in hand with the beauty industry to appeal to our most primal drives: eat and get accepted by the group. It's a conflict that has us bouncing back and forth between them, and every side makes money-except us. Surrender to No S and vow not to give them any more of your money than is necessary (okay, a lipstick and some mascara, a few clothes- you get the idea).

I also know why their offering will work for only a very few: it caters to people who are motivated by appearance first and want to see big changes fast, and not to people who truly want to learn how to be happy eating less. They HAVE to offer plans that do that, and those can never deliver the ease they sell.

I just read an amusing article in Scientific American that said we should go on a marketing diet. Avert our eyes, turn down the sound, etc., when food is advertised (not just fast food) as it's almost NEVER the food we want to be the foundation of our diet. No money in that! I say do the same for weight loss businesses.

And join the January thread.

Yes, oolala, you're so right.
I tell myself that WW is the only thing that really works for me (for the amount I'd like to lose anyway) and I've done it before, more than once.
But I know that the weight doesn't stay off, because it really is a diet
mentality that WW promotes, even though they try to insist that it is
a 'lifestyle change'---well it can be I guess, but it's just not natural to
be that precise about eating for a lifetime.

oolala53 wrote: I just read an amusing article in Scientific American that said we should go on a marketing diet. Avert our eyes, turn down the sound, etc., when food is advertised (not just fast food) as it's almost NEVER the food we want to be the foundation of our diet.

I do this! One of the only times I even think about certain fast food or desserts is when I see it on a TV ad. I avert my eyes and often mute it, too, as though it's gross, and it really helps me not get a craving stuck in my head.

I'm in!! I would love to reread this message at the end of the year to see if I have been able.

minimizer wrote:Yes, oolala, you're so right.
I tell myself that WW is the only thing that really works for me (for the amount I'd like to lose anyway) and I've done it before, more than once.
But I know that the weight doesn't stay off, because it really is a diet
mentality that WW promotes, even though they try to insist that it is
a 'lifestyle change'---well it can be I guess, but it's just not natural to
be that precise about eating for a lifetime.

Exactly! I hadn't ever done WW, but had done calorie counting and I saw the same--I could lose but couldn't keep it off (I yo-yo dieted, and typically gained back all I lost plus a bit more), and it didn't help me make a lifestyle change. It wasn't long-term sustainable for me to put that much thought and effort into daily living and eating. Once I realized that diets really do NOT work if you're gaining all the weight back, then No-S was the logical choice. It's not fast or flashy or glamorous, but it's long-term sustainable. I love that "maintenance eating" is the same as "regular eating."

I have just had my first two red days of the year. Yesterday and today. I had just come home from a stressful trip to the frozen northeast to deal with my husband's infirm father. I thought for sure the sedentary days and the crappy food would trip me up, but they didn't. As soon as I got home, though, I got back into my work and immediately felt overwhelmed and as if I needed to hide out somewhere. I have had this feeling all my life. I had my compliant breakfast yesterday, went to work and plowed through four hours, came home and very sneakily started preparing lunch by eating NOT on a plate everything that was around. Crossed over into some old ice cream that has been hanging around since my daughter got her wisdom teeth out. I realized I was doing that "what the hell" thing Reinhard writes and talks about--making some kind of deal where I would atone for my sins by not eating dinner or something. But at least I realized what I was doing and put the ice cream away, marked red in y habitcal and went back to the rest of a sleepy day. This morning, I had breakfast with my husband and then started grazing when he left. Again, I marked it red and went to work and here I am.

I feel unsettled. I'm used to heavy-duty recrimination when I go "off" whatever diet I'm on. I know now that it doesn't help, so I'm not yelling at myself. I also question how much good it does to wonder why I fell off the wagon. So here I am in the present moment. Unsettled.

Is it too late to join you all? I've actually been doing NoS since mid-November, and it was the first holiday season where I actually lost weight. I would love to commit to all of 2018! All of my life, really...

mickbeth65 wrote:Is it too late to join you all? I've actually been doing NoS since mid-November, and it was the first holiday season where I actually lost weight. I would love to commit to all of 2018! All of my life, really...

Come on in, fellow NoS-lover!

Chotzinoff wrote:I have just had my first two red days of the year. Yesterday and today. I had just come home from a stressful trip to the frozen northeast to deal with my husband's infirm father. I thought for sure the sedentary days and the crappy food would trip me up, but they didn't. As soon as I got home, though, I got back into my work and immediately felt overwhelmed and as if I needed to hide out somewhere. I have had this feeling all my life. I had my compliant breakfast yesterday, went to work and plowed through four hours, came home and very sneakily started preparing lunch by eating NOT on a plate everything that was around. Crossed over into some old ice cream that has been hanging around since my daughter got her wisdom teeth out. I realized I was doing that "what the hell" thing Reinhard writes and talks about--making some kind of deal where I would atone for my sins by not eating dinner or something. But at least I realized what I was doing and put the ice cream away, marked red in y habitcal and went back to the rest of a sleepy day. This morning, I had breakfast with my husband and then started grazing when he left. Again, I marked it red and went to work and here I am.

I feel unsettled. I'm used to heavy-duty recrimination when I go "off" whatever diet I'm on. I know now that it doesn't help, so I'm not yelling at myself. I also question how much good it does to wonder why I fell off the wagon. So here I am in the present moment. Unsettled.

Hang in there. Sometimes it's just hard, and we fail for that reason. It doesn't need to be deeper than that. Think about a yummy meal for tomorrow that you would enjoy.

Chotzinoff wrote: I feel unsettled. I'm used to heavy-duty recrimination when I go "off" whatever diet I'm on. I know now that it doesn't help, so I'm not yelling at myself. I also question how much good it does to wonder why I fell off the wagon. So here I am in the present moment. Unsettled.

I think you have the right approach - mark it as red and move on. If red days keep happening there's nothing wrong with thinking about why and figuring out if there's a trigger or situation that you could do something about. Not turning to food when you have a crappy day can take time though!

I was thinking earlier in the week that I have a tendency after a rough day, or even a bored day, of trying to excuse reaching for food - as a relief for boredom, or stress, or bad mood, or whatever. Like somehow I 'deserve' certain foods because of how I feel. Which is silly right? Doesn't make it easy to counter though, I have to have a proper talking to myself!

So far I've been able to manage it but I know it's a tendency I have, so I need to figure out strategies to minimise the amount it happens.

MillieM, I know exactly what you're talking about. It IS interesting how often my thoughts "reach" for food. Some days, every five minutes. If I don't try to argue myself out of it and just sit there, noticing that a bunch of clamoring toddlers have arrived in my head to scream SNACK TIME, it gets even more interesting. Just what do you kids think this unauthorized food can accomplish? Pretty simple: I (they) gravitate to anything that I perceive takes no effort at all and will make me feel mildly pleasant and take my mind off the other things I have to do, none of which are unpleasant, but all of which do require some effort. Somewhere along the line, I got the idea that the normal state of being is to feel pleasure all the time, and that if I feel something different--anxiety, boredom, anger, confusion--it is a big emergency that needs immediate treatment. I have used food as treatment for decades now, even though it obviously doesn't provide much sustained pleasure. Technically speaking, a nice meal on a compliant non-S day gives me much more pleasure than eating mindlessly until I feel uncomfortable, guilty or hopeless. But it is just food. It can't be expected to be a psychiatrist and a primary care physician, it turns out.

Great MillieM! I have been noticing my 'toddlers' too - though I hadn't identified them as that. I also find that I would have reached for food when at 'dis-ease'. Its been interesting to say 'no' more than usual this month - but also to learn to say 'yes' to a plate meal, or 'wait' to the weekend!

My belt is done up to a tighter notch today - and it isn't squashing me. I've stayed off the scales all month as I need to establish the habit and don't want discouraged by a possible no weight loss. But a tighter notch is encouraging.

woops - it was Chotzinoff who talked about 'toddlers' - sorry. Agree with both MillieM and Chotzinoff. So, nice to get that 'yes' feeling when I read others thoughts - thanks!

Yep my brain is definitely a toddler when it comes to food Its part of my S day thinking that I'll have to address at some point, the 'well I did so good in the week I NEED a reward GIVE ME CAKE' etc.etc.

Yesterday was 21 days on habit! It's getting easier to remember that I'm the type of person who prefers to enjoy meals vs. snacking.

I've lost about 9 pounds. I'm frustrated because it's been a week since I saw any movement on the scale. But I'm totally out of money to spend on food, so I'm eating up non-perishables in the cupboards. Mac & Cheese is no diet food, no matter if it fits on a plate. (I am doing the SNAP challenge this month, and it's definitely hard to eat healthy on SNAP. But I didn't plan to do this until 1/12; it's easier if I meal plan)

My total food spending (groceries, convenience food, dinner out & all) this month will come in at just under $160. For reference, the lowest monthy on record was $257 in April of 2016, and the average over the last two years has been about $379. Yikes! Convenience food really does add up. So there's that. Even if I'm not losing weight, I'm not paying for the privilege of stuffing my face with junk.

Except that I read a news article about Taco Bell's new nacho fries. And now I want fries. Oh, well. No money and it's not an S-Day.

Congrats on those 9 pounds, Savor. And yay for doing the SNAP challenge.

I'm not sure you realize just what a big deal it was for you to stop mid WTH. (It's actually the term the researchers cam up with originally, though in formal situations, they call it "counterregulatory eating" and it's MUCH more typical than modest reactions, such as stopping before it sets in. (Maybe we can start a parallel trend of referring to CE.

Actually, our brains are HUMAN. The set up is in place for going for extra food not only because we're opportunistic eaters but because there are a lot of memories the "lower" brain can tap because it worked before! It's human to overeat! The 33% of the normal weight population i(without a lot of conscious thought) is the exception.(IMHO, I regard the really naturally SLIM people as freaks of nature, but don't tell them. See how they're not the norm? That's because the ones like them DIED before they could successfully procreate.)

But if the toddler metaphor works, work it! It's pretty good. I mean, you don't give the toddler the whole package of cookies just because she thinks two (or none) were not enough, or at least I hope not.

Thankfully, the prefrontal cortex where new, thoughtful habits take place is also human. In fact, an important part of what makes us human. Vive le PC!

I agree that it's only marginally important to analyze just why the slips come. (I speak from obsessive experience. I'll never know how easy it might have been to surrender to habitcal.) In the end, the remedy regarding eating is pretty much the same- WAIT! Then you can work on separately remedying the situation that woke up the pattern, either with a real solution, if it's possible, or by soothing yourself because it is just one of life's chronic problems. And habit theory says it's a lot more fruitful to make a much bigger deal about the successes.

Hijack over.

Thanks for the hijack, oolala. Any neat ideas for dealing with depression?

I find that a brisk walk outdoors for 3/4 hour or so is pretty good as a temporary mood lifter. Longer walks with friends in nature are even better. One of the reasons I belong to two walking groups.

No neat ideas for dealing with depression. I've never found anything as simple or effective for it as No S is for eating. It's certainly not as strong as it has been, but I'm a lot more reluctant to say I feel confident about not relapsing regarding it than I do about eating. I feel a LOT less in control of it. I mean, I can go several hours between meals but I can't go several hours without thinking. Anyway, I'm not looking for a better remedy for that these days. Sometimes I'm going to want food when it's not time and sometimes the negative loop is going to get tripped. Just grateful for good times. Today is one!

Well, we are a 12th of the way through 2018 - how is it going.
No snacking is getting easier for me.

Good to hear it, Heather!

My "recovery" from the autumn slide feels stronger and stronger. Exercise (my bigger focus this year) getting more consistent, if short.

N days are going OK for me, I'm definitely getting used to the routine and finding my way through.

S days are a little wild! No wilder than a weekend used to be however, so I'm still a step ahead of where I was before...

Milliem, having S days that are no wilder than they were before N days is a big win. You are WAY ahead of the game.

That's true! I think the way I was eating before was fairly NoS friendly but extra chocolate and snacks and bad food choices were creeping in. Over the year times when I just ate whatever whenever were balanced by calorie counting where I paid more attention and lost a bit of weight, but I basically ended the year the same weight I started.

Even if I don't lose on NoS it feels like an easier, less stressful way to maintain. I am hoping that I lose eventually as my S days calm down and my N day choices get a bit better... the temptation to add further restrictions is definitely there at the moment but I'm resisting.

I'm doing really well this week!! I had a big glitch while doing a thesis revision, where the stress gave me the munchies and I gave in to that. This week is all green, and I'm feeling my jeans loosen up just a little bit.

Big congrats!

Way back when I was doing some coursework for an extra certificate for my credential, I remember specifically being in my pajamea working on a paper (which was actually an interesting paper to work on) along with working my way through a package of big chocolate chip cookies from Costco (for about 5 bucks a package- WAY to cheap), punctuating each step. I might have gone through two of them over the course of the paper; can't imagine having finished it in one day. It was just a habit; I thought I "needed" them. It was all a ruse of my "reward food" circuitry, an excuse to keep the calories comin'.

Finishing up February today. If you're going strong, fantastic! If not, forgive yourself and aim for the smallest win you can today. Try NOT to think, well, I'll let things go today and get tougher in March. Sometimes. just one gap between meals or cutting a "failure" in half or postponed an hour can be a win. Take that into tomorrow.

You are absolutely right Oolala. I have had a horrible month in terms of green days, I have only done seven, but I have noticed that there has been a weight loss (small, but real) and I have decided to forget the voices of the diet mentality and do better this month. And I'm very happy and looking forward to March!

Even with only seven green, it sounds like moderation might be "sneaking" into even your red and yellow days. Lookout, you might be a moderate eater very soon!

Checking in. I did ok Jan and Feb, nothing to brag about or cry about!
I am back to my Habitcal this month as I want to see my "green" progress.
Hope everyone is doing well.