setpoint

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margot17
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Location: France

setpoint

Post by margot17 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:02 am

It's like an inner thermostat, if the setpoint is high the body will do everything in its power to gain weight (increase appetite and lower metabolism, namely), if the setpoint is low it will do everything it can do lose weight. So it is easy to understand that if you want to lose weight, unless you want to fight with your body and inevitably lose the war when your personal resources of willpower have exhausted, you want to lower the setpoint.

Yesterday I came upon this really curious Shangri-La Diet. The idea of that diet is to lower the setpoint and then everything takes care of itself. It goes about doing it in a curious way that I will have to manage to verify without breaking compliance with NOS (it appears that eating calories non associated with taste -with the exception of sweetness - lowers the setpoint). But the reason why I mention it is that it appears that when you don't eat, the setpoint lowers, while when you eat the setpoint rises, and this is a possibly good explanation as to why stopping snacking is so crucial to achieve moderation, and lose weight. It lowers the setpoint! I find this explanation of why NOs diet works quite awesome.

oolala53
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Re: setpoint

Post by oolala53 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:31 am

Plain foods lower the setpoint, as you say. The intense flavors of modern manufactured foods are associated with high calories but low satiety because the body sees them as easy calories (they are such concentrated versions of calorific foods that had those flavors) which it likes and will strive to get more of. It will allow the body to keep more weight on to accommodate that. It thinks it's keeping us alive! Somewhere in the book The Hungry Brain, it said that about 70% of what determines our weight is out of our hands. It's actually amazing that anyone can thwart it to much of a degree for any length of time, but it seems to me that it is still a good idea to adopt moderate eating habits and see where the chips fall.

But we also have to enjoy our food.

I read the Shangri-La diet years ago. It doesn't match any traditional eating pattern that I've ever heard of, but if you can see it becoming systematic, go for it. The founder's dinners didn't sound moderate, but his overall intake was. Sounds like his weight dropped and remained stable for the long term. (The author did die of coronary artery disease at age 60, but who knows what his genetic predisposition was.)
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

margot17
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Location: France

Re: setpoint

Post by margot17 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 am

Oh he died at 60 of coronary disease? that's not promising...

Thisisnotabadidea-
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Re: setpoint

Post by Thisisnotabadidea- » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:49 pm

I don't believe setpoints are a real thing, Only you eat enough to maintain a certain body directly or move enough to maintain it. Thin people I know either eat less or move more than bigger ones, No other "magic". It would be nice if it was out of our control, but it's not and that's reality

TexArk
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Re: setpoint

Post by TexArk » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:27 pm

This is an interesting article by Jason Fung regarding setpoint. It has worked for me after years and years of having to eat less and less to maintain. I started maintenance a few months back at 160 and I am now at 148 and below 25 bmi and eating more calories than ever (but I believe I have shifted to being a fat burner).

https://medium.com/@drjasonfung/control ... e2e69e94dd
24.7 bmi Feb. 2019
26.1 bmi Sept. 2018
31.4 bmi July 2017

margot17
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Re: setpoint

Post by margot17 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:48 pm

TexArk wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:27 pm
This is an interesting article by Jason Fung regarding setpoint. It has worked for me after years and years of having to eat less and less to maintain. I started maintenance a few months back at 160 and I am now at 148 and below 25 bmi and eating more calories than ever (but I believe I have shifted to being a fat burner).

https://medium.com/@drjasonfung/control ... e2e69e94dd
Did you go low carb and/or IF? that pathway didn't work for me at all. I went keto for a couple of month and fasted every other day. But I am also in a different condition than yours, being very heavy.

automatedeating
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Re: setpoint

Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:37 pm

Hi TexArk!!
I have had a similar experience as you. Eating more delicious and nutritious food than ever, and effortlessly (finally) lost weight. Luckily NoS habits were also effortless by the time I changed what was on the plate.
Everybody is different, but my metabolism (and yours, I think) are both much happier with less starch.

Tracker - Everybody has a different metabolism. Naturally thin people are not "working" hard to exercise more or eat less - they have more energy to exercise and they don't feel hungry. Then there are a group of people that do work and work and work at it and are successful. Then there are a bunch of people (maybe half of Americans, in my opinion) whose metabolisms are working against them in our society. Each of them is on a journey to find the levers that work for their own metabolisms.

Margot - I personally think there is a middle ground that is the sweet spot for some people - it doesn't have to be either high-carb or low-carb. I "moderate" my carbs and that is enough for me. I haven't had to go low-carb to get results but I certainly had to eliminate foods like spaghetti on N Days.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

TexArk
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Re: setpoint

Post by TexArk » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:13 pm

NoS was the very first step for me, and I have been at it for 10 years. I had to learn to give up snacks. Most people have no idea how many times a day they are putting something in their face. If you are eating constantly that means that you never get to burn your fat stores. And then learning to give up sweets on N Days is another huge step. I still found that I was not good at moderating sweets on S Days. They really were too much like a drug for me. I didn't give them up though until I had to for health purposes. That was what made a huge difference for me as for as cravings are concerned. And I didn't try to IF, but since I replaced the starches with healthy fats I just wasn't hungry as often and effortlessly extended my noneating times. No plan though. But that is when the last 10 pounds that I thought I would never lose came off. I don't count carbs, but I do not eat sugars or grains so that is limiting I realize. At any rate, the NoS habits were in place for a long time before going to lower carb. I have lost 55 lbs though in the last 2 years and can eat many more calories. I was gaining weight on any more than 1200 calories for many years. I thought I was just stuck since I am now "elderly" and assumed I had a permanent sluggish metabolism and a setpoint that was not going to budge after years of yo yo dieting. I also think it is important to find effective ways to manage our emotional system. Carbs (and snacking) have been the easy, accessible way since childhood. Dogwalking now is a great endorphine management system for me!
24.7 bmi Feb. 2019
26.1 bmi Sept. 2018
31.4 bmi July 2017

Dalia negra
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Location: Barcelona (Spain)

Re: setpoint

Post by Dalia negra » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:06 am

Interesting debate fellow ...
I like what you say about carbohydrates, I have experienced it myself in the last diet I did ... unfortunately, my head only wants carbohydrates, and the closer they get to sweet, the better. But I'm willing to make some small changes based on what you say.

margot17
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Location: France

Re: setpoint

Post by margot17 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:33 am

According to what was reported in the Shangri-La book and the reviews I read on Amazon, people lost completely their cravings for carbs, if they took regularly the flavor-less calories that would lower their setpoint. They would let their favorite chocolate cake get dry over the counter, because they even forgot it was there. From this, I would infer that the setpoint comes in play prior to the carbs.
Maybe, as you (TexArk) did Nos and stopped snacking, your setpoint lowered, and then you were able to let go of some carbs, effortlessly.

margot17
Posts: 207
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Location: France

Re: setpoint

Post by margot17 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:21 am

Here's a link on the science backing the SLD and setpoint lowering idea

TexArk
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Re: setpoint

Post by TexArk » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:39 pm

Well...Shangri-La may be promoting flavorless calories, but that is SO NOT what I am doing. I am enjoying very flavorful food with nice healthy satiating fats which make my food taste GREAT.

For me, and I am not saying this is everyone, I had to admit that I was using carbs and sweets as a drug. I know some can moderate those things, but I am nearly 72 years old and finally decided I was tired of trying to moderate. I know the argument about forbidding foods makes you desire them and then you go off on a binder. But for me abstinence has been the answer. No sweets=no craving + finding other ways to get endorphins kicked in. I don't smoke or use alcohol, so for me, it has been leisurely walking outside in fresh air (the dog is my personal trainer and life coach) and reading for pleasure.

We each have to find our own way, but No S is the perfect scaffolding for nearly everyone.
24.7 bmi Feb. 2019
26.1 bmi Sept. 2018
31.4 bmi July 2017

automatedeating
Posts: 3623
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Re: setpoint

Post by automatedeating » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:57 pm

TexArk wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:39 pm
We each have to find our own way, but No S is the perfect scaffolding for nearly everyone.
Yes! I have seen SO MANY people on these forums use NoS as the anchor point that launches them to their Happy Place. I think NoS is so empowering, and that confidence (and the habits) helps us reach a tipping point, where all of life is a little more structured and satisfying. And for me personally, the creative problem-solving has become a reward in itself.

(As an aside, my experience is so similar to yours! From food, to dog, to reading. :mrgreen:)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

margot17
Posts: 207
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Location: France

Re: setpoint

Post by margot17 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:00 pm

TexArk wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Well...Shangri-La may be promoting flavorless calories, but that is SO NOT what I am doing. I am enjoying very flavorful food with nice healthy satiating fats which make my food taste GREAT.
SLD doesn't involve eating flavorless foods throughout the day, it's just once or twice a day you gulp down the oil as if it was vitamins, then go about your day eating the food you want.

I am just a noob of NOS but I already adore it. It's the perfect set of hard rules that cuts the BS but also the hamletic questions, and it's a relief. It's also really nice to see how you guys have all found in time your perfect ways around it, tweaking here and there according to your personal preferences. It feels very alive. Nothing like normal diets.

Whosonfirst
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:32 pm

Re: setpoint

Post by Whosonfirst » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:44 pm

TexArk wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Well...Shangri-La may be promoting flavorless calories, but that is SO NOT what I am doing. I am enjoying very flavorful food with nice healthy satiating fats which make my food taste GREAT.

For me, and I am not saying this is everyone, I had to admit that I was using carbs and sweets as a drug. I know some can moderate those things, but I am nearly 72 years old and finally decided I was tired of trying to moderate. I know the argument about forbidding foods makes you desire them and then you go off on a binder. But for me abstinence has been the answer. No sweets=no craving + finding other ways to get endorphins kicked in. I don't smoke or use alcohol, so for me, it has been leisurely walking outside in fresh air (the dog is my personal trainer and life coach) and reading for pleasure.

We each have to find our own way, but No S is the perfect scaffolding for nearly everyone.
Funny, our dog is same for me. Gets me to walk almost every day barring heavy rain or snowstorm. The consistency and pace he wants has been good for me as well.

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