struggling with s days

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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joasia
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struggling with s days

Post by joasia » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:52 pm

I am having a tough time with s days. Any ideas?
The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:00 am

What are your "S" days like?
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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JustAnnie
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Post by JustAnnie » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:20 am

What part of "S" days are you having the most trouble with?
Just Annie

You Can't Fail Until You Quit Trying

pangelsue
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Post by pangelsue » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:30 am

I think you should give up the struggling and relax until you realize binging on S days makes you feel so lousy that you volunterally scale them down. I remember many years ago reading a book by a woman who finally learned how to eat by removing all the rules. She said at first she gained weight because she ate everything in sight. She said that the first 3 days she ate nothing but chocolate chip cookie dough!!! The third day she was violently sick all day and has not wanted a chocolate chip cookie or the dough since. She said after lots of binging on every kind of junk food imaginable, she finally started craving real food. I realize this is extreme but I think it makes a significant point. We have all spent so long longing for freedom but terrified by it.

Even though we are all struggling with weight problems, and even though we spent many years overeating, we have always felt guilty about it and out of control. Now someone comes along and says, control yourself somewhat for 5 days a week and let the controls loosen for 2 days. Then repeat for the rest of your life. One part of us can't grasp the concept of living without guilt and remorse. If we don't feel that love/hate relationship with food, what do we feel about it? They have been our hallmark emotions for so long. The other part of us doesn't really believe we can do it. Afterall, whenever we removed the controls before, look what happened.
We have granted food such power and significance, it seems impossible to resist. Well, it can be resisted. We have to learn to put it in perspective for maybe the first time in our lives. Food is good. Food keeps us alive. It is enjoyable. It is not a god at whose altar we worship.
It has taken a year but slowly, I have been eating more mindfully. To binge I now need to consciously turn off reason. I like that feeling of recognizing when I want to mindlessly eat because I think it means I am turning a corner. Changing the habits of a lifetime takes time and it is time well spent. Trust and believe in yourself and give yourself space to learn and grow. Afterall what is the alternative? Giving up? What will that mean? Another diet? I don't think there is another one after this one. We all know that in our hearts.
A lot of growing up happens between "it fell" and "I dropped it."

joasia
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Post by joasia » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:59 pm

I guess I just overeat on s days. I was just wondering how other peoples s days look, maybe a sample menu.
The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

kccc
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Post by kccc » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:58 pm

milczar wrote:I guess I just overeat on s days. I was just wondering how other peoples s days look, maybe a sample menu.
I overeat on S-days too. That's what they're for. So I don't on N-days.

They are gradually getting better on their own. I'm letting them alone, and concentrating on N-days.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:06 pm

I'd like to see what your "S" days look like -- to see if you're truly overeating or just think you are. Easier to help you knowing what you do than telling you what we do.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

silverfish
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Post by silverfish » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:14 pm

It's much better, in the long run, to feel sick after S-days than to feel guilty!

Consequences-based learning :)

joasia
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Post by joasia » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:11 am

I know this is so simple even an idiot can do it. But I am still overeating, probably for emotional reasons. I just need to do it, buck up and do it. I know I can, it doesn't get any more simple than this. I just get this urge to binge and on s days I have been known to eat two lunches and two dinners. After it is over and I look at it rationally, I can say "That was stupid, I won't do that again". But while in the moment, I seem to be in a trance.

Thanks for all the responses
The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

joasia
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Post by joasia » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:35 am

P.S. Sometimes I get this horrible feeling, that no matter what I do, I will always be fat. I want to have hope and feel that things will change. But some days are just hard.
The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

silverfish
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Post by silverfish » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:28 am

For me, the beauty of "vanilla no-s" is that it took the focus off despair and guilt and being fat and worrying things won't change and put it squarely onto those 14 words. Keep your focus on that, make those 14 words and that habit your goal, and everything else will fall out of consideration or into perspective or into place.

Those 14 words are concrete and achievable. It might hurt sometimes, but it is simple. There isn't much there to worry or fret about.

Naturally, being used to worrying or fretting, we start worrying that we are not losing weight, or not fast enough, or eating 'bad' foods or the wrong types of foods or not being sufficiently disciplined or sufficiently deprived. And that's when I say to myself, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. 14 words - that's what I'm focussing on! Anything else is a distraction." When distracting thoughts come along, instead of trying to feed them answers, I change the topic.

I started off a step or two ahead because I had recently decided to stop worrying about my weight since it was obvious I was never going to do anything about it and was otherwise quite happy! No-S was part joke, part dare.

When I do start fretting about weight or add-ons, I just remind myself that I'm doing this as a dare and why would I add distractions to that! I'm really happy with how I think about food now, and was shortly after starting No-S. The weight loss is nice, but the peace of mind is better.

And why would I want to needlessly interfere with peace of mind?

zoolina
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Post by zoolina » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:23 am

One of the best peices of advice I got on this site was to be really strict about N days so that you could relax on S days. If you're already being strict on N days then any "damage" you do on S days really (really!) won't count so much.

My first 12 (or so) S days were a blitz of all the things I didn't eat over the week. I snacked and stuffed, snacked and stuffed, but eventually even I was able to end up having less "idiotic" S days. Give it some time, and enjoy your S day treats! You deserve them.

florafloraflora
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Post by florafloraflora » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:53 am

Overeating is what S-days are for. If you want to eat two lunches and two dinners on those days, then do that. If it makes you feel sick, you might not want to anymore.

I'm far from an expert, but over the past month I've noticed that the difference between the way I feel on N-days (light, energetic) and on S-days (logey, sleepless) is providing its own subtle correction. My S-days have already gotten to be a lot less idiotic because I know how nasty I'll feel if I eat everything I'd like to. So don't fight it, just use S-days as an opportunity to observe what overindulgence feels like in your mind and body.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:30 pm

I don't equate "S" days with overeating or binging or gluttony, but for lightening up some; for allowing myself the treats I don't have on "N" days.

I try to buy/make treats in single servings. It's the difference between having a serving of whatever or a bowl or box or bag full of whatever. I can't eat what's not there! If I do end up with more than one serving of something, I try to give it away or throw it out. A little wasteful, yes, but better someone else enjoys it or it's in the trash than in (or on!) me.

I also find I'm getting a whole lot pickier about what I do indulge in. I want real food. Even "real" treats and sweets. I want to recognize the things on the ingredients list rather than have them look like a chemistry experiment. Real food tastes better.

There's been some discussion here about the book Mindless Eating. I've seen it, but haven't looked at it. But, borrowing from Eastern philosophy about being mindful of what you're doing (as opposed to doing things mindlessly): "Avoid doing two or more things at once, even if they seem trivial and you know you can manage it... When you read and eat at the same time, for example, part of your mind is on what you are reading and part on what you are eating. You are not getting the most from either activity...Remember the Buddha's words: “When you are walking, walk; when you are sitting, sit. Don't wobble.” Everything you do should be worthy of your full attention. If it seems worthy of only partial attention, ask yourself if it is really worth doing."

To paraphrase the Buddha: When you eat, eat. I think part of the reason we're fat is because we don't pay attention to what we're eating when we're eating. So you eat a pastry while reading the paper or watching TV and suddenly it's gone, but you haven't registered much enjoyment from eating it. So, you eat another one. And another one. But if you stop and pay attention to what you're doing, you'll be satisfied with one pastry rather than two or more.

Paying attention to not only what you're eating but also the act of eating it might solve the problem of overeating.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

kccc
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Post by kccc » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:07 pm

I like the idea of mindful eating, especially on S-days.

Not that I can't have whatever-I-think-I'm-craving. Just that I need to notice that I had it.

Thanks, wosnes. I think that single change might be very powerful for me.

silverfish
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Post by silverfish » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:00 am

I agree. Lately - but on S-days especially - I've been trying to use the principal, "Eat nothing but what you know to be useful or believe to be beautiful" (with apologies to William Morris :)

K.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:19 pm

"Eat nothing but what you know to be useful or believe to be beautiful"
I'm assuming that when you say a food has to be "useful" it has to be good for you. Somehow we've been hoodwinked into believing that all of our food choices have to be healthy. But eating is as much about pleasure as it is about fueling our bodies. So, if a food brings you pleasure, it's useful.

I look at it this way: real food is beautiful food. I have a thing for cookies. While I like other pastries and desserts, it's cookies that call my name. On "S" days, I have cookies. But, I don't think a bag of Oreos or Chips Ahoy are real, useful or beautiful. A homemade cookie or something made at a local bakery from real ingredients is beautiful. The purpose of beauty in your life, be it in your home or in the food you eat, is to bring you pleasure.

Contrary to the way many of us think, pleasure and getting pleasure from food is not a bad thing. We're not supposed to suffer; we're not supposed to sacrifice day in and day out. We're not even supposed to make food choices based on what's healthy! At least not all of them.

This has been mentioned before: No-S reminds me a lot of not only the way most people around the world eat, but also the way we ate when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s. Eat sensibly most of the time; treats on special days. While I do remember some snacks and sweets during the week, they weren't consumed in great quantities.

On the No-S home page, Reinhard has written:

The American Paradox
People talk about the "French Paradox," that the French can eat fatty, carby, delicious food and still stay skinny while health conscious, calorie counting Americans are the fattest people on earth. It seems not only improbable, but unjust. They love their food and stay skinny, we hate our food and get fat.

Sometimes red wine or olive oil or some other miracle ingredient is held to account for this. But the thing is, this phenomenon not so particularly French. Look to any country where meals and meal times are still largely governed by tradition and you'll find the same thing: people make their food choices based on taste instead of health and somehow stay thin. Japan is often held up as another example. They also have miracle foods. But their miracle foods are completely different from the French miracle foods. And keep in mind that obesity rates in most places are closer to those of France and Japan than to ours. What do all these countries have in common? Not miracle foods. We're the schmucks that believe in miracle foods. What they have in common is traditional structures around when and what and how you eat. The details may differ a little from country to country, but there is a surprising degree of overlap. Eating is social, not solitary. It occurs at set times, not all day long. There is a difference between ordinary, everyday foods and special festive treats. Again, sound familiar? No S is really just an attempt to stand in for such a tradition where it has been corrupted or lost.

The title and some key ideas from this section were lifted from a New York Times Magazine Article.
Here's a link to that article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magaz ... 0d&ei=5070

A few weeks ago, the same author wrote the following article for The New York Times Magazine (This one is very long and an advertisement popped up before the article.). Scroll down to the very end where he gives his simple principles for healthy eating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magaz ... nted=print
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

silverfish
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Post by silverfish » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:40 pm

By "useful" I meant, "needed to live" - basically, I try to eat either because I need to eat to live (useful) OR because I really like the taste (beautiful), and not just because it is there, and I am there :)

Just my way of approaching food "mindfully".

I try not to talke about good/bad, health/unhealthy foods - there's a whole world of hurt waiting to happen there.

silverfish
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Post by silverfish » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:42 pm

I suppose I could reverse the phrase, to avoid miscommunication: "Eat nothing that you do not believe to be beautiful or know to be useful"
:)
Priorities.

benjishi
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Post by benjishi » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:59 am

Just to restate some ideas...

They are S Days. It's impossible to be having a tough time with them. You're allowed to have snacks and sweets and seconds as you want them.

Therefore, if you feel like you're having a problem, it's a "holdover" issue... From another diet, or idea about what you should and shouldn't do.

Learn to give up those notions. They're making you feel badly, and they're not part of No S, and they didn't work the first time around.

Things will shape up before you know it if you're doing N-Days right, I promise.

You'll realize it's not so great to eat so much you feel sick to your stomach. Or can't move without mini-puking.. et cetera. Because you'll be used to feeling well on N-Days.

Your treats will become actual treats. Things that make a good sensation better. Not torture-treats, that mix pain of overindulgence with the pleasure of indulgence.

I've been doing No-S for a while now. I got held up today. Had cereal at 7 a.m. Ate my lunch two hours later than normal.

Then I realized it was saturday and I could just stuff some gnosh in my mouth to hold me over..

Looked around... I didn't have any snacks IN my apartment. Or sweets. Had to just deal with the hunger, which wasn't that problematic (a bit used to it. I know it goes away after 10 minutes or so now.)

The point of this little parable.. If you're doing N-Days right... S-Days will become saner too. If I wanted a snack, or a sweet, I would have had to go out and get one today.. This production alone would have made them less crazy, and more mindful.

As far as seconds.. If you REALLY do want to try and cut down... Cook your food on the weekends.

And cook one portion at a time. If you do wind up wanting seconds... You'll have to do all that cooking and all those dishes all over again. Learn to cook as much as you need, not more. Don't eat from packages..

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