I'm afraid it's not working for me.

florafloraflora · Post by **florafloraflora** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:17 am

I'm afraid I'm no good at No-S. The N-days I can handle; I have a nearly perfect record, with no more than one or two slipups each month. But the S-days are killing me. At one point I had lost ten pounds, but now I've gotten into a predictable pattern of swinging way up on weekends, almost as high as my starting weight, and swinging way down during the week. I'm afraid the admonition to be sensible on S-days is just not enough for me. Right now it's the end of the weekend and I am miserably stuffed. I feel ready to burst out of my skin. I've even stepped up my exercise, but my idiotic S-days are killing me.

Post by **reinhard** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:50 pm

florafloraflora,

I'm so sorry to hear that S-days are such a problem for you, but there are some positive aspects to your situation as well which I think you can build on:

1. your N-day habit is solid. That is huge. It seems to at least have kept you from gaining, which is something. And you've had tantalizing little drops which indicate that if you could just tidy your s-days up a bit, this could work. This is a great foundation from which to advance.

2. have you read the "what do YOU mean by sometimes?" discussion linked to from the home page? There are some good suggestions in there. Like "interpret sometimes as "once" per s day (or some similarly small number). If that seems too cruel, start by simply counting the number of S-incidents you actually indulge in now each S-day (how many snacks, how many sweets, how many seconds). Then use that status quo to come up with a realistic (but slightly lower) limit. Honestly, the simple fact that you do count incidents, that you pay such careful attention, might be enough pressure, even without imposing limits, to keep you in line. If the prospect of never having a totally free s-day seems awful to you, maybe divide your s days into "capital S" and "lower case s" days: on routine, weekend s days adhere to the tight definition of "sometimes," on major holidays or celebrations, give yourself total freedom. Just some ideas to consider. There is of course a danger to all of these: extra complexity and extra restrictions you might resent. But the potential gain might be worth the risk.

3. are you proactively treating yourself to something especially nice on S-days? That's the first, best line of defense against egregious excess. Unlike counting or limiting s-events, there are no potential downsides to this, and many upsides (like real enjoyment).

Don't despair, you've accomplished so much in terms of habit and self-discipline. With a little fine tuning I'm sure you can push past this plateau.

Best wishes and please keep us posted,

Reinhard

thtrchic · Post by **thtrchic** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:09 pm

Following on Reinhard's thoughts -- maybe you could do one weekend day totally free and one more restricted (like with just 1 or 2 S's)? Might be a good compromise.

Julie

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:14 am

BTDT. In spades. (You can find some of my threads on being an idiot if you look.)

What works best for me...
- A proactive treat decision. Something truly decadent, bought in advance or planned into errands. If I have that to look forward to, I'll hold off on low-level junk to save room for it.
- The "Joy Diet" complementary set of rules - "Eat only what you enjoy. Enjoy what you eat." The minute I dropped mindless eating, life got better.
- Other sensory treats - flowers, etc.
- If all else fails, food that I consider treats but that will fit into No-S. Raspberries, no matter how much they cost. Real goat cheese in my salad. That kind of thing.

I will confess my weight hasn't dropped a lot since I was being an idiot - a couple of pounds so far, max. But it doesn't swing so wildly, and I do feel less stressed over eating when I have "mindful S days" instead of "idiotic S days." So that's my goal.

Hang in there. The fact that you don't like S days like that is a good sign in itself.

florafloraflora · Post by **florafloraflora** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:58 am

Thank you guys. I think I can point to a couple of factors in my recent exxxxtreme S days. A few months ago I started working on a side project (baking bread for a tiny local food co-op) that requires me to stay up most of the night on Friday. Given the fact that I tend to substitute food for sleep anyway, this isn't a great way to start my weekend: I tend to want to start bingeing on the stroke of midnight. I made a rule that I have to wait until I sleep (briefly) and wake up before I start treating myself, but I've only had limited success with that. Add to this weekly problem the fact that I've stayed up all night for work during the week, twice in the past two weeks, and the food-for-sleep problem becomes even worse. So I think one key is for me to catch up on sleep. [And why am I awake at 3:49 in the morning, you ask? I think it has something to do with the fact that I went to bed really early, at 9, exactly so I could get my sleep caught up. Yeah, it's a work in progress.]

Also, I need to strike a balance between too many special treats (I end up eating them all, because some of them won't keep) and not planning enough (because then I tend to overdo it on junk foods I don't even like). The optimal number of planned treats may be two: one to eat right away (for instant gratification) and one that I bake or otherwise make myself (I enjoy that kind of thing and I feel deprived if I don't get at least one homemade treat per week, but if that's my only treat then I tend to snack on junk while I'm waiting to get around to the making).

Reinhard, I really like the idea of counting S-incidents. Just the awareness might be helpful. I'll try starting with that.

KCCC, you're right about incorporating allowable treats into N-days. I notice I do a lot better when I plan my meals carefully for variety and flavor (packing a bento every day really helps) than when I eat whatever I can get on the run. The past two insane weeks at work have made that harder to do, but now things are settling down again so I'm optimistic that I can get back on track.

ClickBeetle · Post by **ClickBeetle** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:24 am

Hey Flora. I'm so sorry to hear about the challenges you're facing. You sure sound like you're taking a strong stand on your own behalf, and that is terrific; very disciplined. Now that you've mentioned sleep -- I'm like OH! that is a huge part of the equation! Google leptin/ghrelin and it will turn up lots of info on how sleep interacts with your appetite hormones & such. I just find that adequate sleep and regular sleep patterns are indispensable to staying on track. Good luck and I hope this might be a little bit helpful. Don't give up -- as R points out, and others, you're doing a great job on 5/7 of the problem! Go Flora!!!! XOXO Betsy

florafloraflora · Post by **florafloraflora** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:41 pm

Thanks, Betsy! My weak spot really is sleep, much more so than snacks or any other bad eating habit on N-days. I guess maybe I should count sleep, or sleeplessness, as another S to watch out for.

ClickBeetle · Post by **ClickBeetle** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:21 am

Make yourself up a Sleep Habit. Maybe Reinhard would have some ideas around that. I like your counting sleep as an S (an S you need, of course!)

Sleep is perhaps my biggest single problem, so I'm working with a therapist to develop better sleep/bedtime habits. I expect when I have made some improvement in this arena, LOTS of other issues will clear up as a result. Or so my therapist has said. I believe her.