Individualizing vs. over-complicating

[kccc]

On another thread, I wrote "It's a fine balance between individualizing and over-complicating, isn't it?" And it struck me that that would make a good discussion topic.

How do you individualize No-S for your circumstances?
Have you "over-complicated" at times?

Individualizing...
1) I have "patterns" of eating that are not strictly part of No-S that help me. Like, a "meal" includes at least 2 veggies/fruits, a carb (preferably complex), and protein. Not a rule, but a routine - MUCH, much softer, but still supportive. That helps me make better choices eating out, for example.
2) I also have a couple of "default meals" for those crazed days. Standard breakfasts. Things I can throw together for lunch from always-on-hand items if there's no leftovers. That kind of thing.
3) The latest and hardest one is dealing with "No snacks" on irregular days. I have begun virtual plating, but am being very, very careful about it. The easy one is lunchtime yoga - I take my usual lunch, eat my fruit before class and the rest after. The hard one - that I'm working out now - is my evening class (that I'm teaching). It falls right at my normal dinner, and runs late. I am trying to pack a snack that could be part of a reasonable dinner, and account for it later - but it needs to be more than fruit/veg to hold me.

Over-complicating...
I have over-complicated S-days by putting too many restrictions on them, which sent me in a downward spiral. It is SO counter-intuitive that being gentle instead of strict is the best way to get out of those spirals, but I'm gradually learning that.

Your experiences on that balance?

[florafloraflora]

I have sort of a template for N-day meals, too, although it's less strict than yours, KCCC. Each meal must include some protein and some fiber, and as many fruits/veggies as possible, with bread or other starchy foods optional. I also go for a balance of flavors, colors, and textures, because I know that a variety of foods does a lot to keep me going and is also more likely to offer a variety of nutrients.

That's a good idea, extending the template to eating out. I don't have any rules for eating out, except that I always get less food than I think I will need because it always turns out to be more than I think it will be.

I also have certain rules about which foods count as sweets and which don't. There's a certain strawberry yogurt I use for my smoothies, which has some sugar in it. If it's mixed with blueberries for a smoothie it's OK, but I avoid eating it on its own because that's too sugary (and so far, "avoid" has been a god enough way to keep my eating of it at no more than two or three times a month). I also have some rules for drinks and their serving sizes: the sugary guava juice is OK, sometimes, on N-days (and again, so far I haven't had any trouble keeping "sometimes" rare), but I can only drinks half a bottle at a time.

[kccc]

Flora, I see our "rules" as being about on the same level of strictness, lol! I do flex them on occasion (dinner one day this week was just pizza - not a veggie in sight), but I find I feel better if I sort of stay in line with them. Like you, I try to get in some variety in each meal and across time - though it's easy for me to fall into a rut when I'm stressed/busy.

I agree with the rules on "what is a sweet" - some of mine are quite arbitrary. I get yogurt for my son - 2 oz of yogurt in a tube. However, he likes them best frozen, sort of like an ice-pop. An unfrozen one is okay to me, but a frozen one isn't - just FEELS too "sweet-like," even though it's STILL just 2 oz of yogurt!

And I do a "glass ceiling" on coffee, b/c I like mine with a lot of (warmed) milk and a teaspoon of sugar. So, 2 cups is it.

Some of my rules may sound complicated, but aren't, b/c (1) they've been incorporated into my habits so they're invisible to me and (2) they're reasonably flexible - guidelines instead of rules. (And most of them are "do have," which is totally different in my mind from "can't have.") What counts as "too complicated" for me is when I try to throw in too much restrictive stuff at once. Then I have a hard time, to the point that I start to feel oppressed, resentful... and in the end, unsuccessful.

[London Mum]

I think KCC is right and it is the amount of effort required to keep track of the rules that makes a complication untenable. So for example a system where you changed the number of rules you stuck to depending on how much weight you lost requires conscious thought every day, rather than becoming habit.

I do have some tweaks.

Sweets: This is the easiest rule for me and I have never "cheated"
Snacks: I don't count it as red if I have eaten a few raw veggies or fruits while preparing the kids' meals at 5pm. So far this has not escalated into a larger snack, and helps me not to tuck into their leftovers!
Seconds: I will allow a two course meal if eating out (eg starter and main). Once a month I meet with my book group and we get a load of tapas-style dishes. I just eat until I think I've had about the right amount, but don't stress too much about it. This is not a problem to me as at the moment I only eat out once or twice a month max. I don't want to make them S days as then I would be tempted to relax the rules all day and have a pudding. So works for me.

LM

[reinhard]

I think the big difference between good individualising and bad over complicating is that most of the good stuff you've added is optional: intelligent defaults, patterns. They're also all positive: not "thou shalt not" but "try this first." ("thou shalt not"s are necessary, but expensive, it's best to keep them to a minimum). I think you can add similar, positive patterns to S days, instead of brittle fixed rules. The two that jump to mind are: proactive rewards, and emphasizing a basic pattern of meals.

It is possible that some people may need more fixed rules at some point, despite the risk of adding complexity and/or deprivation. But I would be very cautious about adding these. Besides introducing new dangers, they also compromise the authority of the existing rules (a law that is constantly changing does not inspire much respect). It's also difficult to assess the utility of a new rule in a short time frame -- you'll be tempted to jump to conclusions and further tweaks, piling rule upon rule and change upon change until you neither understand nor respect the law you've laid down for yourself. So I'd suggest that if you do make a tweak, give it at least a solid month before modifying, replacing, or adding to it. Self-command requires self-obedience, and that takes time. You'll also think twice before adding a new tweak because the stakes are higher (a minimum one month commitment). That should weed out a lot of duds.

Reinhard

[BrightAngel]

Reinhard: Self-command requires self-obedience, and that takes time.

Seems like Reinhard has some good advice here.

[wosnes]

I have a template for my meals, but it's more about the dishes served than making sure specific types of foods or macro-nutrients are included.

While there are foods I try to use minimally, I'm also trying to be much more relaxed about this. We've been force-fed so much information about diet and health and nutrition. I think that the majority of it is actually misinformation.

I'm looking more at what people have done in the past than at what the "experts" tell us to do. It's as liberating as No-S.

[Blithe Morning]

To date, most of my "individualizations" are long term habits I brought into No S, i.e. the largest portion on my plate be fruit/veg. I do this because I know after long experience that I just feel better when I eat lots of fruit and veg, not because some diet expert told me it was good for me.

I am trying to remember when I started this practice; six or seven years ago at least. I haven't been entirely consistent. There have been enough lapses that my own informal "action research" informed me that I don't like the way I look or feel when I reduce the quanity of plant matter in my diet.

The original inspiration for eating lots o' veggies escapes me. Obviously, I owned the practice quickly enough that I consider it mine, though I doubt I actually came up with this particular expression.

And this I think is the crux of successful individualization. The tweak has to be something that you can "own". In short, it just works for you from both an interior and exterior perspective.

I agree the commitment has to be there to work the tweak for a month. I would also add that don't attempt a tweak until it's time, by which I mean that confluence of interior mindset and exterior circumstances. Unfortunately, those are the best guidelines I can offer since I can tell, pretty much, when the time is right for something new in my life and when it's not. However, I'm not so good at judging for others.

Some of my tweaks are not motivated by weight or health but by other factors. I weigh the ingredients to my breakfast smoothie, but this has more to do with tightwadery than calories. OJ and frozen fruit are expensive and I want regular portions to control costs. The same for yogurt. I don't buy individual servings, but in this case it's for (mostly) environmental reasons.

[Noturningback]

......

Over-complicating...
I have over-complicated S-days by putting too many restrictions on them, which sent me in a downward spiral. It is SO counter-intuitive that being gentle instead of strict is the best way to get out of those spirals, but I'm gradually learning that.

Your experiences on that balance?

I keep reminding myself of that great quote by Richard Carlson:

"Don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff"

That being said I try to divide my plate into 1/2 veggies, 1/4 protein, 1/4 whole grains but, this is a general thought and not a hard rule for me. I have some medical issues wich forces me to keep one eye on my choices. If I start becomming obsessive, I remind myself of the above quote.

[wosnes]

To date, most of my "individualizations" are long term habits I brought into No S, i.e. the largest portion on my plate be fruit/veg. I do this because I know after long experience that I just feel better when I eat lots of fruit and veg, not because some diet expert told me it was good for me.

I am trying to remember when I started this practice; six or seven years ago at least. I haven't been entirely consistent. There have been enough lapses that my own informal "action research" informed me that I don't like the way I look or feel when I reduce the quanity of plant matter in my diet.

The original inspiration for eating lots o' veggies escapes me. Obviously, I owned the practice quickly enough that I consider it mine, though I doubt I actually came up with this particular expression.

And this I think is the crux of successful individualization. The tweak has to be something that you can "own". In short, it just works for you from both an interior and exterior perspective.

I agree the commitment has to be there to work the tweak for a month. I would also add that don't attempt a tweak until it's time, by which I mean that confluence of interior mindset and exterior circumstances. Unfortunately, those are the best guidelines I can offer since I can tell, pretty much, when the time is right for something new in my life and when it's not. However, I'm not so good at judging for others.

Some of my tweaks are not motivated by weight or health but by other factors. I weigh the ingredients to my breakfast smoothie, but this has more to do with tightwadery than calories. OJ and frozen fruit are expensive and I want regular portions to control costs. The same for yogurt. I don't buy individual servings, but in this case it's for (mostly) environmental reasons.

I started eating more fruits and veggies due to a diet expert's program, but continued it after realizing that, like you, I just feel better when I eat more of them. In addition to that, if you keep them seasonal, it's cheap!

Measuring for smoothies. I do this too. I've found something really simple. My blender container has measurements listed on the side. I first pour in a cup of liquid, then usually a half-cup of yogurt. Then I pour in fruit until the measurement shows that I've added another cup. It's simple, keeps me from dirtying anything else to be washed, and cost effective.

[blueskighs]

the only individualization I do is keeping wheat and sweets together.
when I went vegan almost two years ago I basically substituted wheat for meat and within about nine months became stuffy nosed groggy and foggy headed and gained a good chunk of weight.

I went to my doctor to check for gluten sensitivity and allergy. The results were negative but the very enlightened allergist told me that if eating wheat was making me feel bad it was fine to cut it out of my diet or reduce it.

Since that time I have reduced it so that even before No S I woudn't eat it on most days. Keeping wheats and sweets together for me is a no brainer and enforces me to naturally produce greater variety on my diet. i.e. what i eat on the weekends tends to be different from meals on the weekdays, hence I tend to eat heavier veggies during the week and some of my sandwiches, pita chips, etc... oh and yes those donuts on the weekend ....

I know this wouldn't work for many but it keeps my nose from running and my mind clear, I likes it I likes it

Blueskighs

[palomayombe]

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