Animal, Vegetable, Miracle
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Animal, Vegetable, Miracle
Anyone else read Barbara Kingsolver's book titled in the subject? Interesting read, very thoughtful look at our eating habits. I was reading a chapter today about the lack of a truly cultural american diet. When most foreigners are asked what they think Americans eat, their response is ...McD's. I think I recall reading a post earlier about this very same subject.
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ThomsonsPier
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- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:18 pm
- Location: Reading, UK
Interesting thoughts, I sense a food nostalgia rambling reply coming onThomsonsPier wrote:
Out of interest, what do people think the English diet comprises?
I have noted that when visiting other European countries they have a particular cuisine style, with particular dishes featured.
In the UK, I don't think we have that to the same level, but there are "traditional" foods.
I was raised on a fairly "traditional English" diet (if such a thing exists!) before my veggie days. My mum cooked balanced meals every day, dinners were often casseroles / bakes / hotpots (featuring potatoes with combinations of seasonal vegetables), meat wasn't an everyday food, and was considered more of a "special" thing. All meals were accompanied by the obligatory boiled / steamed vegetables topped with butter. On Fridays we often had fish & chips from the chippie down the road. Every sunday we'd have a roast dinner (actually at luncthime usually), usually roast chicken with stuffing, roast potatoes, all the veg, gravy that my Mum made out of the chicken giblets etc. My mum also varied the menu by adding international dishes very often (Indian, Italian, mediteranean style) always from scratch, these dishes were often vegetarian, especially anything Indian.
Come to think of it, we were all pretty healthy without any weight issues, despite the "meat & potatoes" bias of our diet. I think this is down to the fact that my Mum always cooked from scratch, we often ate at the table (but sometimes in front of the TV), never had seconds and we never had snacks in the house like other families did (e.g. cookies, crisps, cakes etc.). We did eat sweets / chocolate etc. but only stuff we'd buy at the local shop which we'd eat straight away (chocolate never survived in our house more than a few minutes LOL). We also never had desserts (which we called "pudding" of course
) except on special days, or at the weekend, desserts would usually be something homemade like apple crumble with custard or ice cream.Sometimes "afternoon tea" happened, but only on special occasions, this involved tea (brewed in a teapot of course) with full fat milk, toasted crumpets with loads of butter, cake if we had any (or made any in advance). All good stuff
making me hungry now!p.s. how could I forget fry ups! My Dad usually took charge of the cooked breakfast - fried eggs, bacon, black pudding, fried bread, tomatoes, mushrooms etc. We only had this as a rare special treat though because we all knew so much fried food wasn't healthy! As a very young kid I liked the black pudding until I found out it was made of coagulated pig's blood (ew!!!!) and never ate it again
Last edited by bonnieUK on Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ThomsonsPier
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:18 pm
- Location: Reading, UK
It is, indeed. I lived on Cemetery Junction for a year as a student (in Granby Gardens, if you remember any street names). I'm from Luton originally, and moving to London on Saturday.
Your diet sounds very similar to mine whilst growing up, except that my mother didn't cook anything much that originated outside the UK.
I never had the view that American folk live on McDonald's type foodstuffs. Before conversing with real Americans (as opposed to the strange beings referred to in UK lore), I had no idea what a normal diet was over there. It does seem quite distinctive, however, as I've noticed a number of things on the menus of which I've heard that don't seem to be present anywhere else. I only found out what grits were last year.
Your diet sounds very similar to mine whilst growing up, except that my mother didn't cook anything much that originated outside the UK.
I never had the view that American folk live on McDonald's type foodstuffs. Before conversing with real Americans (as opposed to the strange beings referred to in UK lore), I had no idea what a normal diet was over there. It does seem quite distinctive, however, as I've noticed a number of things on the menus of which I've heard that don't seem to be present anywhere else. I only found out what grits were last year.
ThomsonsPier
It's a trick. Get an axe.
It's a trick. Get an axe.
Haha - I lived in Granby Gardens too at one point, very small worldThomsonsPier wrote:It is, indeed. I lived on Cemetery Junction for a year as a student (in Granby Gardens, if you remember any street names).
I was there in the 80s. Had a black cat who used to roam the neighborhood When I think traditional American food I think pumkin pie & squash / pumkins etc. in general, I seem to remember them being mentioned on sesame street a lot
and wondering why we never seemed to eat those things! Another thing Sesame Street taught me was that what we generally think of as biscuits in England are called cookies in the USA (I thank the Cookie Monster for that educational fact!).I did recently make an adapted version of an American style "biscuit" recipe, which are basically like savoury scones to eat with a main meal, instead of bread I guess. Quite nice and very quick to make.
I don't think there's a normal "American" diet - it tends to be more regional. For example, you mentioned grits. They're pretty much a Southern dish; a lot of Northerners would have no idea what they were. However, people tend to adapt blends of regional styles to their personal preference. (At least people who cook do...)Before conversing with real Americans (as opposed to the strange beings referred to in UK lore), I had no idea what a normal diet was over there. It does seem quite distinctive, however, as I've noticed a number of things on the menus of which I've heard that don't seem to be present anywhere else. I only found out what grits were last year.
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florafloraflora
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Based on my visit to London last year, my idea of the English diet is lots of lovely vegetables and very little meat. I was on a 30-40-30 diet at the time (protein-carb-fat) and I remember feeling really protein-deprived. I couldn't figure out how to get any meat to eat. I kept ordering meat pies and getting these baffling puff-paste concoctions full of veggies and gravy with maybe a speck or two of meat hiding inside. The veggies really were nice, though.
I couldn't find any of the Indian food that is supposed to be everywhere in London, either, except at one sort of touristy place I went to on Brick Lane.
I'm going to London again in six months--I'll have to do better this time.
I couldn't find any of the Indian food that is supposed to be everywhere in London, either, except at one sort of touristy place I went to on Brick Lane.
I'm going to London again in six months--I'll have to do better this time.
Wow - that is strange! Must have just been bad luck, but I don't think in England you are ever too far from an Indian restaurant. I live in a quiet suburb 30 mins drive from London and there are at 4 or 5 Indian restaurants virtually walking distance from my home LOLflorafloraflora wrote:I couldn't find any of the Indian food that is supposed to be everywhere in London, either, except at one sort of touristy place I went to on Brick Lane.
I'm going to London again in six months--I'll have to do better this time.
I think you might be right about English food not featuring meat in great quantities (it's usually mixed with veg / potatoes) - though as I haven't eaten meat for years it's not something I would have current knowledge of. I think the trend may have been altered slightly by the low carb craze, but that seems to have passed. The big thing in the news at the moment here is childhood obesity being on a sharp increase, which is thought to be due to lack of exercise combined with too many sweets, sugary drinks, snacks etc.
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ThomsonsPier
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:18 pm
- Location: Reading, UK
Ah, meat pies. It depends where you buy them. A lot of manufacturers just fill them up with stodge to keep the costs down; My favourite pie maker provides a solid lump of animal with a spot of pastry around it. I found the Square Pie Company somewhat lacking.florafloraflora wrote:I couldn't figure out how to get any meat to eat. I kept ordering meat pies and getting these baffling puff-paste concoctions full of veggies and gravy with maybe a speck or two of meat hiding inside. The veggies really were nice, though.
I'm a hardened carnivore, though, so go out of my way to find good quality meat (and vegetables, and cheese, and cake, and...) at farmers' markets and so forth. I think the perceived lack of meat in the UK diet may be a partial leftover from the older generation here; most folk I know (including me) eat far too much meat to be healthy. I had hot piginabun for lunch today from a market stall.
This completely confuses me. I can't move fifty yards without tripping over six Indian restaurants, at least one of which is bound to be reasonably good. Some areas of London are denser in Indian population than others; these are obviously the ones you wan to visit if you want decent food. I think the area to which I'm moving tomorrow is one of the major Polish centres. Mmm, sausage.florafloraflora wrote:I couldn't find any of the Indian food that is supposed to be everywhere in London, either, except at one sort of touristy place I went to on Brick Lane.
ThomsonsPier
It's a trick. Get an axe.
It's a trick. Get an axe.
I'm reading the book now, too. I think the reasons she give for Americans not having a truly cultural diet are interesting: it's seen as something for the upper classes, which truly fascinates me since most cultural diets come from the lower classes, and loss of familiarity with what comes from the soil and what foods are available locally and seasonally within our regions.
Kingsolver is a baby-boomer, as am I, and says that while our parents knew when to expect the last frost in spring and the first frost of fall, and what fruits and vegetables were ripe when, far fewer of us do and virtually none of our children do. Why would they? For as long as they can remember, everything has been available fresh in the grocery year-round.
I think that we probably had more distinct regional cuisines prior to the end of WWII and the 1950s when food started being shipped everywhere.
KKKC's comment about cuisine in the U.S. being more regional than national interesting mostly because it implies that other countries cuisine is more national (and less regional) than our own. The cuisine of Italy, for example, a country far smaller than our own, is probably even more regional than our own and with great variety within the regions.
I suppose that if one were to pick a truly national cuisine or national foods for the U.S they would be centered around our Thanksgiving dinner: turkey, corn, potatoes, cranberries, pumpkin and other squashes, and maybe wild rice.
Kingsolver is a baby-boomer, as am I, and says that while our parents knew when to expect the last frost in spring and the first frost of fall, and what fruits and vegetables were ripe when, far fewer of us do and virtually none of our children do. Why would they? For as long as they can remember, everything has been available fresh in the grocery year-round.
I think that we probably had more distinct regional cuisines prior to the end of WWII and the 1950s when food started being shipped everywhere.
KKKC's comment about cuisine in the U.S. being more regional than national interesting mostly because it implies that other countries cuisine is more national (and less regional) than our own. The cuisine of Italy, for example, a country far smaller than our own, is probably even more regional than our own and with great variety within the regions.
I suppose that if one were to pick a truly national cuisine or national foods for the U.S they would be centered around our Thanksgiving dinner: turkey, corn, potatoes, cranberries, pumpkin and other squashes, and maybe wild rice.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
I think there are truly American meals that have been overlooked. Consider bar-b-que chicken, baked potatoes, and corn on the cob. I'd call that American fare. Roast beef and vegetables with homemade rolls and apple pie for dessert is a Sunday tradition in my family. In the summer, we have pan-fried okra, zucchini, fresh tomatoes - all from our own garden - and a roasted chicken to go with it. Just a couple of weeks ago, we had a traditional meal that the whole family looks forward to. Fresh green beans, new potatoes and ham, all cooked in the same pot, all from our garden and a local butcher. Add a pan of corn bread and some really cold milk, and you've definitely got a traditional meal. And these aren't regional. I've had the same type of meal in Idaho and Mississip and Michigan as I have at home.
I think social eating events are very American, as well. Consider chili cookoffs, pancake breakfasts and the fish fry. I consider all of these traditional, too.
I think social eating events are very American, as well. Consider chili cookoffs, pancake breakfasts and the fish fry. I consider all of these traditional, too.
-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."
Hm... didn't mean to imply that - you're definitely correct that Italy has wonderful regional fare. Though I do think that there are characteristics of "Italian" that are recognizable in a broad-brush way.wosnes wrote:KKKC's comment about cuisine in the U.S. being more regional than national interesting mostly because it implies that other countries cuisine is more national (and less regional) than our own. The cuisine of Italy, for example, a country far smaller than our own, is probably even more regional than our own and with great variety within the regions.
I think because the US is so BIG that it's harder to find recognizable broad-brush characteristics. Even "Southern" food has strong regional divisions - Texas chili and NC chili are not at all alike. Grits-with-seafood is a coastal Southern variant (quite good, btw, but I'd not heard of that combination until I was an adult... despite having always considered anyone who didn't know about grits to be somewhat ignorant!). You may get corn bread throughout the nation, but whether it should or shouldn't have sugar in it is a matter of strong opinion. Even "Thanksgiving dinner" (as "American" as you can get) varies from area to area. If you don't have sweet potato casserole here, it isn't a real Thanksgiving meal. Wild rice? Forget it.
So, the things I think of as "typical American," another person from the USA might not even recognize.
All the same, Paulrone's list is a good start on "American" meals.
Cornbread without sugar?
Omygosh. You did NOT just say that.
What next? No onions in potato soup? No sugar in cole slaw? Potato salad without mustard?
Egads! You, wosnes, are a heretic. A HERETIC, I SAY!!
Omygosh. You did NOT just say that.
What next? No onions in potato soup? No sugar in cole slaw? Potato salad without mustard?
Egads! You, wosnes, are a heretic. A HERETIC, I SAY!!
-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."
Hey, I didn't say anything about cornbread without sugar or potato soup without onions! That's how I eat 'em!
But back to the wild rice vs. sweet potatoes...I was trying to think of foods that are native to the U.S. And while sweet potatoe casserole is, I don't think sweet potatoes are.
Milk as a beverage might be pretty American, too. Personally, I can't stand it (never have liked milk to drink and cannot remember the last time I drank some).
But back to the wild rice vs. sweet potatoes...I was trying to think of foods that are native to the U.S. And while sweet potatoe casserole is, I don't think sweet potatoes are.
Milk as a beverage might be pretty American, too. Personally, I can't stand it (never have liked milk to drink and cannot remember the last time I drank some).
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
Nope, it's YOU!paulrone wrote:Sorry, wosnes.
It's KCCC THAT IS THE HERETIC!!!!
Cornbread is not a sweet, it's BREAD.
Though this is a silly argument for me to engage in, because I don't like it either way.
In truth, I actually don't care for a lot of signature Southern dishes - any vegetable cooked into oblivion, fried food, cornbread. (My dad shakes his head and tells me I wasn't raised right. I tell him that he should know...)
I do like the platters of garden vegetables we used to have when I was growing up. And I love grits, biscuits (scone-like bread, not cookies, for those of you in the UK), and some varieties of BBQ.
Well, I swan and do declare! Don't like cornbread? So what the heck do ye eat with y'alls ham hock & beans?
OK, just kiddin'.
I have to admit, I'm not fond of southern fried food, either. If you lived nearby, I might have invited you over this weekend. We had the last of the tomatoes and the last cantaloupe from our garden, yesterday. There's no time to sulk, though. The apples are coming ripe, so we'll be picking them this week.
That, to me, is the essence of American cultural food. It comes from my garden, I picked it, prepared it, cooked it and shared it with my friends and family. I know that describes many different cultural norms, but the richness and deep roots of American culinary history stems from all of those.
OK, just kiddin'.
I have to admit, I'm not fond of southern fried food, either. If you lived nearby, I might have invited you over this weekend. We had the last of the tomatoes and the last cantaloupe from our garden, yesterday. There's no time to sulk, though. The apples are coming ripe, so we'll be picking them this week.
That, to me, is the essence of American cultural food. It comes from my garden, I picked it, prepared it, cooked it and shared it with my friends and family. I know that describes many different cultural norms, but the richness and deep roots of American culinary history stems from all of those.
-Sometimes Fundamentalist and self-appointed King of the S-day Moderates
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."
"As it is (sometimes) written, so let it (sometimes) be done."
You might enjoy reading Animal, Vegetable, Miracle because that's what it's about. I'm enjoying it.paulrone wrote:We had the last of the tomatoes and the last cantaloupe from our garden, yesterday. There's no time to sulk, though. The apples are coming ripe, so we'll be picking them this week.
That, to me, is the essence of American cultural food. It comes from my garden, I picked it, prepared it, cooked it and shared it with my friends and family. I know that describes many different cultural norms, but the richness and deep roots of American culinary history stems from all of those.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
Wosnes, that book is now on my Christmas wish list - thanks!
Even though we don't live off the land, I find I am avoiding "faux food" more and more. Real food just tastes better - and usually isn't as hard to make as I think once I try it.
Case in point... this weekend I made a cherry pie from scratch. The pie was the request of my husband, to whom I'd given a few "cakes or other treats for no reason" homemade gift cards last Christmas.
I'd never baked a cherry pie before, so had to do some "research" first. When I looked at cans of "cherry pie filling," I was repulsed at the ingredient list. So many "fillers" and "stabilizers"!
So I bought cherries canned in water (since they're out of season), found a recipe for filling, and paired it with my favorite pie-crust recipe that uses Canola oil instead of shortening. It was surprisingly easy to make ("easy as pie," so to speak!), and I thought it was delicious, even though I'm not a big fruit-pie fan. My husband, who is, LOVED it.
Very few people bake from scratch anymore. And the general perception seems to be that it's "hard," when it's often not at all.
I won't argue that my pie is "healthy" - too much sugar and fat for that! - but it was "real". And MUCH more satisfying than processed food.
One of the wonderful side benefits of No-S to me is that I've rediscovered how much I love baking. I used to not allow myself to do it "because I don't need that stuff around." Since I can have it on weekends - which is when I have time to bake - it's become a real treat. And I now realize that one good, satisfying treat is actually a better choice than a HUGE pile of not-really-what-I-want treats, which was the old pattern.
Even though we don't live off the land, I find I am avoiding "faux food" more and more. Real food just tastes better - and usually isn't as hard to make as I think once I try it.
Case in point... this weekend I made a cherry pie from scratch. The pie was the request of my husband, to whom I'd given a few "cakes or other treats for no reason" homemade gift cards last Christmas.
I'd never baked a cherry pie before, so had to do some "research" first. When I looked at cans of "cherry pie filling," I was repulsed at the ingredient list. So many "fillers" and "stabilizers"!
So I bought cherries canned in water (since they're out of season), found a recipe for filling, and paired it with my favorite pie-crust recipe that uses Canola oil instead of shortening. It was surprisingly easy to make ("easy as pie," so to speak!), and I thought it was delicious, even though I'm not a big fruit-pie fan. My husband, who is, LOVED it.
Very few people bake from scratch anymore. And the general perception seems to be that it's "hard," when it's often not at all.
I won't argue that my pie is "healthy" - too much sugar and fat for that! - but it was "real". And MUCH more satisfying than processed food.
One of the wonderful side benefits of No-S to me is that I've rediscovered how much I love baking. I used to not allow myself to do it "because I don't need that stuff around." Since I can have it on weekends - which is when I have time to bake - it's become a real treat. And I now realize that one good, satisfying treat is actually a better choice than a HUGE pile of not-really-what-I-want treats, which was the old pattern.
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oliviamanda
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:11 pm
- Location: South Jersey, NJ
My mum is from England and we always got excited growing up to have foods we got from an "English" shop, which were mostly all different kinds of meat pies or sausage pies... it had to involve puff pastry and I do believe that everything tastes even better in puff pastry. Sometimes we'd have "real" fish in chips, but it took a long car ride to get them. We loved to eat the british candies, scones, crumpets, mincemeat pie, and traditional fruit cake with marzipan.
With my father being half Chinese, we had a lot of traditional Chinese food growing up. Almost every meal consisted of white rice along with some form of meat and vegetables. Fridays we always had no meat, even when it wasn't Lent. We had either pizza or fish or breakfast for dinner.
I don't know if it's an east coast thing or not, but I would say that subs (submarine sandwiches) or "grinders" are a big staple round these parts. When I moved out west I was suprised at the absence of such sandwiches, the lack of really good bread (they say it's in the water) and even the access to really good lunch meats. I have to say that eating what I think of as "American" traditional foods has been displeasing to my waistline. Part of the reason I decided to cross over into vegetarianism (rack of ribs, fries, chicken wings, subs, burgers, hot dogs, loaf of meat : ))
With my father being half Chinese, we had a lot of traditional Chinese food growing up. Almost every meal consisted of white rice along with some form of meat and vegetables. Fridays we always had no meat, even when it wasn't Lent. We had either pizza or fish or breakfast for dinner.
I don't know if it's an east coast thing or not, but I would say that subs (submarine sandwiches) or "grinders" are a big staple round these parts. When I moved out west I was suprised at the absence of such sandwiches, the lack of really good bread (they say it's in the water) and even the access to really good lunch meats. I have to say that eating what I think of as "American" traditional foods has been displeasing to my waistline. Part of the reason I decided to cross over into vegetarianism (rack of ribs, fries, chicken wings, subs, burgers, hot dogs, loaf of meat : ))
Habit is habit and not to be flung out of the window by any man, but coaxed downstairs a step at a time.--- Mark Twain
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NoelFigart
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- Contact:
As far as traditional "American", I'd say my mother's typical summer dinner of sliced tomatoes, summer squash, butterbeans, corn on the cob, and cucumbers in vinegar (yes, I know cukes are Olde Worlde) would be about as American as you can get.
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My blog https://noelfigart.com/wordpress/ I talk about being a freelance writer, working out and cooking mostly. The language is not always drawing room fashion. Just sayin'.
My blog https://noelfigart.com/wordpress/ I talk about being a freelance writer, working out and cooking mostly. The language is not always drawing room fashion. Just sayin'.