New and looking for advice on two topics

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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variance
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:20 am

New and looking for advice on two topics

Post by variance » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:03 pm

Hi,

I'm on my third week of No S and am liking it so far, but I wanted to take some time to reflect adn get some advice on how things are going since I'll hit my first 21 days soon.

I started No S because I was sick of counting calories and wanted to adopt a healthier relationship with food. I'm not technically overweight (5'4", about 120lbs), but I have about 10/15 vanity lbs I wouldn't mind vanishing. I'm pretty active- I run 40-50mpw, plus some cross training- so I've got the exercise thing down, but I'm having two issues with No S that I hope you can help me with.

1. Before No S, I used to eat 4 meals a day (6, noon, 4, and 7:30) and the 4pm habit monster is still alive and well to tempt me then. So every day at 4pm I've been having a caloric drink- a glass of milk or OJ- to help get through to 7:30. I know that's technically allowed, but I feel like I'm sawpping one bad habit (eating at 4pm) for another (drinking at 4pm). However, if I don't have something, I'm extremely crabby and have low blood sugar by 7:30. Is this just something I have to deal with until the habit forms?

2. My eyes, my brain, and my stomach are having a war over the 1-plate rule. When I get my meal together, my eyes say, "That's a good amount of food," my brain says, "That looks healthy", and my stomach says, "I want twice that much!" For example, my eyes and brain agree that a good lunch would be a plate with a green salad, a piece of fruit, and a sandwich (with whole grain bread, blah blah blah), but my my stomach says, "I'd really like to add another piece of fruit and some bread with hummus or peanut butter to that" and the plate starts to get very full. To be honest, the only way I can get from lunch to dinner without feeling super hungry is if I eat a high-fat/protein lunch (like restaurant food), which is not very healthy. The first few days I really tried to go with my eyes/brain and fight against my stomach, but I felt hungry all the time: before, after, and during my meals, and I didn't have much energy to work out. So my long-winded question is this: What should I do about this? How can I work on getting my brain/eyes/stomach to work together instead of fighting it out every day? Or do I just need to ignore my stomach and assume it's operating on habit, and once the habit of eating too much is broken then I won't feel tired and hungry all the time anymore. I know No S isn't supposed to be about constant deprivation.

Thanks in advance for your help.

xJocelynx87
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Post by xJocelynx87 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:29 pm

Hi --

I think there are two things going on here.

1) Habit -- you're used to eating alot (aren't we all?), and at certain times, and the second part in particular is a hard habit to break. My mother, for example, eats at the same time every day, and they are very irregular times (11 am, 3pm, 9pm, and they aren't real meals). I've told her to start eating breakfast in the morning and more substantial meals, but she's set in her ways. She's also not at all overweight, so this works for her. It just goes to show you how powerful habit can be in this regard. My mom's been eating this way, more or less, for 40+ years, and probably always will.

2) Activity level -- I'm a runner as well, and 40-50 miles per week is a pretty lot. (I'm lucky if I do half that!) Of course you're going to be hungry. You're still new, so not only do you have habit working against you...but you're also burning through fuel like a madwoman!

My suggestion is to go ahead and make your plates as full as you want...for now. Once the habit is down, it will be much easier for you to decide if you REALLY need all that food (i.e. you've done alot of exercise that day/week) or if you can maybe start scaling down a little. Like Reinhard says, you probably won't even need to make a conscious decision to do this. The visual stimulus of a fully loaded plate will force you to scale down naturally, I think.

Hope this helps. Glad to hear you're doing well!

Best,
Jocelyn

kccc
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Post by kccc » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 pm

Building habits takes time. And that's okay.

I had to "phase in" No-S... and it was that afternoon snack that went last! I started with a limited list (fruit/veg only, or drink), then decided "only if I needed it," then it eventually faded. But it took time. Allow for it.

As to your meals... I'd say just go with your stomach for now. If you have to pile the plate, pile it. You're still learning how to estimate what you need to get from one meal to the next, and it's better not to cheat yourself because then you'll be tempted to break your newly-developing habits.

I found on No-S that I really did need larger meals once I cut snacks. (Which was okay. Meal food is inherently better than snack food, so that was a good trade-off in terms of both calories and nutrition.)

Over time, you'll figure it out. Part of this is learning to listen to your body. If your stomach is telling you "hey, I'm really HUNGRY!", then listen to it.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:46 pm

My two cents worth:

1. I don't think there's anything wrong with the planned snack. Personally, I'd rather see a solid food snack instead of the drinks with calories. I'm of the belief that animal foods, which obviously includes milk, should be limited. Juices are nothing but sugar and water -- even 100% OJ. You'd be better off with the fruit or some vegetables.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a planned snack; it's the random snacking 24/7 that's the problem.

2. Here's what I'd do: pay attention to your stomach and eyes which are saying you're put together a good meal. Eat it slowly. Wait a bit -- like 20 minutes. It takes about that long for the signal to get from your stomach to your brain that you've had enough food.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

KC 7707
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Post by KC 7707 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:57 pm

Hey Variance,

40 -50 miles per week is ALOT. If you look at the NO S homepage it doesn't say anything about 3 meals per day. FWIW eating at 4 PM may actually help your runs if you are running in the afternoon. I don't think most of the people who undertake No S are getting the amount of exercise that you are, so 4 meals may be a good mod for you.

cvmom
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Post by cvmom » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:38 am

Variance:

Just another thought: no one ever said that you have to have three meals per day. If you read the "manifesto" R never actually states a three meal requirement.

I hope you enjoy No S. Its a great way to feel in control on many levels.

D

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bonnieUK
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Post by bonnieUK » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:40 pm

I'd also say don't worry about filling your plate! I do this sometimes, like yesterday, I thought my dinner plate looked too full, but then I realised at half of the plate was a mountain of vegetables, so decided to not worry about it :)

babyprrr
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Post by babyprrr » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:11 pm

Also, while doing NoS..keep in mind that as ur not overweight by any means, it's going to take plenty of time for the weight to start coming off. I say this because I'm a very similar build to you...I'd say I've lost about 5 pounds in total in about 4 months, but my weight fluctuates daily depending on what I've been eating/drinking.

I've gone on crash diets where I've lost two/three pounds in a week but gained it all back. My favourite thing about NoS is that if makes all my food decisions so much easier. The weight loss is slow but more maintainable.

variance
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Post by variance » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:08 pm

Thanks for your feedback. I guess- like most of you've said- I just need to hang in there and trust that my current bad habits with subside with time as long as I make every day a concerted effort to stick to the plan.

A few responses,

I know I *could* have more than 3 meals, but I don't think that's the right solution because "back in the day" people burned a lot of calories at work, and they didn't eat more than 3 meals. (BTW, the 40-50 miles/ week is because I'm training for my second marathon- not because I'm a weird exercise freak).

wosnes- You hit the nail on the head for what I'm worried about with the "trading one bad habit for another comment." I totally agree that OJ is not a great thing to drink so I do plan to get away from drinking it in the afternoons. Right now I'm at about 2x per week. As far as animal products goes, I totally agree. I drink soy milk (lactose intolerant) and only eat meat maybe 1-2 times per week.

babyprr- Yeah, I know it will be slow. I'm doing it more to develop healthier habits (and escape counting calories- I know the calorie content of EVERYTHING- that's a lot of wasted brain space). And if I get nothing else out of it, it's helped give me the push I needed to quit diet soda- so it gets major points from me for that.

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Blondie
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Post by Blondie » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:01 pm

(BTW, the 40-50 miles/ week is because I'm training for my second marathon- not because I'm a weird exercise freak)
Not that there's anything wrong with that. :wink:

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