No S=No Scale

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Wed May 21, 2008 3:09 pm

reinhard wrote:I don't personally have an issue with scales. I have a mild occasional curiosity but I "neither beg their favors nor fear their hate." And I think this is the best, healthiest and most effective attitude for most people to have vis a vis scales. Just be moderate in your eating and moving and have faith that this behavior will get you (and keep you) where you want to be.

But I'm starting to wonder, though, whether avoidance is the best strategy for people who are freaked out by scales, people who CAN'T simply be nonchalant about them. Maybe they should do the opposite, come to terms with what they're afraid of, kind of like someone with a phobia facing his fear -- say rats or heights or something -- in order to get over it.

I haven't thought very much about this yet, but here's my guess as to how "facing your scale phobia" might look: every day, at some regular time, get naked and step on the scale once and ONLY once. Record whatever number you see -- no stepping three times and picking your favorite. Enter the number in excel and track the (7 day? 14 day?) moving average. Do not worry or complain unless you don't like what the trend line is doing over a week or more. (for technophobic-scalophobes who don't have a clue how to use excel, I will stick a similar feature directly on the site at some point relatively soon).

The upside to doing this is that you will have data that is both meaningful and relatively smooth and even keel instead of crazy, context-less spikes. Hopefully it will calm you down both about your behavior and the scale itself. The downside is that it's a pain AND you may still go nuts when you see a number you don't like. Every bad number hurts, no matter how rational you are, and you're bound to see quite a few of them if you measure every day (the whole "checking your stocks" issue). It's a tough call to say whether it's worth it -- and a very individual call.

Reinhard
I am in complete agreement with the statements above.
One of the most common problems of those with weight problems is DENIAL:
  • a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality
    is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality.
Following No S is a great way for one to force oneself to face the reality of excess eating behavior.
However, the process of daily weighing, recording and tracking that measurement
forces one to face the reality of his/her current weight
and the overall effects of his/her eating pattern on that weight..
....whether the trend is up, down or level.

Knowledge of the reality of one's weight pattern over time
is simply a measurement of the reality of one's behavior with food over time.


I've found that it has been necessary for me to acknowledge and accept the Reality
of both my condition and my behavior,
before I could effectively work to make changes to them.

The scale is not a God or a Judge.
It is simply a tool of measurement....
....quite an accurate tool, if one charts one's weight over time...
and understands that....due to varying levels of salt/water/waste...
the body can have normal weight bounces of from 3 to 8 lbs.
In weight-loss and in maintenance,
it is the TREND over time that matters...not one individual weight.
Last edited by BrightAngel on Wed May 21, 2008 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Wed May 21, 2008 3:38 pm

reinhard wrote:(for technophobic-scalophobes who don't have a clue how to use excel,
I will stick a similar feature directly on the site at some point relatively soon).
Reinhard
I look forward to seeing and using your graph to track my weight-trend.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

resting52
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Post by resting52 » Wed May 21, 2008 4:00 pm

Blueskies wrote:

"there is a certain dignity in not weighing ourselves ... I mean what am I ... A FISH? :D "


Reinhard and Bright Angel, I certainly understand your points.

Reinhard-the absolute beauty of your NoS invention is its common sense simplicity. I am forever grateful to you for putting it in writing.

I'm all about facing fears. They can't control you if you don't let them. I'm talking about benefit/loss here.

Bright Angel, when you get on the scales and you are up a couple of pounds, what is your reaction? Is it closer to anger and disgust and disbelief and frustration, or is it closer to a pleasant determination to stay the course in a positive way? I would really like to know. You seem to be such a strong individual.

My contention -and I'm just talking about ME here, is that I would be thrilled with a loss and maybe give myself freedom to have an extra treat, or defeated by a gain and have an extra treat to make myself feel better. Since this was done daily or multiple times a day, it was generally a lose-lose situation.

I probably will check my weight once a month-not sure about that yet.

I feel like I just got off the evil merry-go-round. Please don't try to put me back on it again.

Resting

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Wed May 21, 2008 4:57 pm

resting52 wrote:Bright Angel, when you get on the scales and you are up a couple of pounds, what is your reaction? Is it closer to anger and disgust and disbelief and frustration, or is it closer to a pleasant determination to stay the course in a positive way? I would really like to know. You seem to be such a strong individual.

Resting
Resting
Thanks for the compliment,
however, please understand that I have had a lifelong battle with food and with weight.
I've mentioned this on other threads of this forum.
I developed a weight-problem at puberty...which for me was age 9.
I am now 63 years old.
During my lifetime, I've lost 100+ lbs four seperate times and regained it 3 times.
I've been on almost every diet and belonged to most diet-clubs.
I spent 5 very active years in Overeaters Anonymous.
I spent 20 years in therapy addressing this (as well as other) issues.
I spent time in an outpatient eating disorders hospital program.
After the OA, the therapy, and the eating disorders program,
15 years ago, I had a gastric bypass, which did not remove any intestine so that every calorie I eat is still absorbed.
At that time I weighed 271 lbs.
I lost to 160 lbs, maintained there for several years and then
began to regain weight.
At 190 lbs in September 2004, I began using a food journeling program,
Diet Power, to log every bite of food I took,
and began, on my own, working to eat approximately 1000 to 1200 calories per day.
About 16 months later I reached my goal of 115 lbs.
For the past 28 months I have been working to maintain that goal weight.
This is my history which I believe is important information
in understanding my position.

Regarding the scales:
Over the years, I have had every reaction to them possible.

I've eaten because they showed a loss,
and I've eaten because they showed a gain.
I've eaten because they didn't move up or down.

I felt bad because they went up, I felt good because they went down.
Sometimes I felt bad and sometimes I felt good when they didn't move at all.

Over time, I tried different variations to my use of the scales.
I tried weighing whenever I felt like it, even if it was many times a day.
I tried weighing once a day, and once a week, and once a month.
twice a day, not weighing myself, but having a club or doctor weigh me.
I spent several years not weighing at all.
I've bought many scales of various kinds, and I've thrown away many scales.

The scales was never the problem.
I did not like the Reality of the numbers registered by them.
Like many overeaters, I have a strong tendency to lie to myself.
It's easy to lie to myself about how much I eat,
and I can also lie to myself about how much I weigh.

In order to face reality, I have to have an objective standard.
I weigh every morning after using the bathroom, but before I dress.
I write that weight down.
I then record that weight on charts and graphs that I keep.

I feel emotions during this process,
just like I feel emotions about lots of my other daily activities.
I can emotionally eat because I do or don't like the number the scale tells me
or I can emotionally eat over something I hear in the morning news.
............or over anything at all.....
Facts are facts, and emotions are emotions.

I continually work to avoid emotional eating, no matter what the cause.
Not facing the truth of facts isn't a solution to emotional eating.

Specifically: this morning the scale showed me up 1.5 lbs from yesterday morning.
I didn't like that, however, I KNEW I didn't really gain 1.5 lbs of fat overnight...
because I'm not a moron.

I know that it's the Big Picture that counts,
not one individual day or weight looked at alone.
It takes 3500 calories above what I burn to gain 1 fat lb.
I know that the calories I took in by snacking last night wasn't even 1/4 of that.
I also know that my snack was ate salty nuts,
and for several days that will affect my body's salt/water/waste levels,
which will register numbers higher on the scale.
I also know that for the next few days I'm going to have to eat smaller amounts of lower calorie foods.

Do I feel frustrated by this?
Am I angry and disgusted?

I hate the Reality of the fact
that I cannot eat everything I want to eat
all the time.


That is what I feel frustrated by.
That is what sometimes angers and disgusts me.
The number on the scale just reminds me of that.

My determination to stay the course and view the numbers on the scale in a positive way,
and my determination to accept the Reality of the fact
that I cannot eat everything I want to eat all of the time,
is an ATTITUDE CHOICE, and it isn't always pleasant or easy.

This is an ultimate truth for me:
I must face reality; change what I can; and accept what I can't change.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Buffalo Gal
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Post by Buffalo Gal » Wed May 21, 2008 5:23 pm

Blueskies,

I'm with you! I have spent a life time on and off of diets and on and off of scales and I am still over weight. I am not afraid of the scale! On the contrary I usually know what it is going to say before I step on it. Once that has been reinforced I have justification to give up. It's really not that simple and we all know that.

Even No Sing is not that simple. The reality is you have to want to make the adjustments (no matter how simple they are) and you have to be able to take the good with the bad.

I have had a particular bad week. Headcold = eating!

The difference for me is that the cold is better and I am ready to get back with the program. If I had weighed myself this week I would still be eating.

I will weigh myself on the first of the month. But instead of driving myself crazy over the last few days I now have a little over a week to get back on track. This works for me!

For me...weighing myself everyday, at the same time, recording the weight and averaging it out is about the same as stepping on the scale once a month and dividing the lost or gain by 30 days.

Buffalo Gal
If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain.

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fkwan
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Post by fkwan » Wed May 21, 2008 5:26 pm

BrightAngel wrote:I hate the Reality of the fact
that I cannot eat everything I want to eat
all the time.


That is what I feel frustrated by.
That is what sometimes angers and disgusts me.
The number on the scale just reminds me of that.
This kind of hit me in the face.

I don't think anybody can, at least no one I've ever known. :) The human body does not appear to be designed to eat crap. Most of the foods we are/were addicted to are crap.

What's interesting to me about No S is that for the first time in 50-odd years I don't want to eat most of the things I used to want to eat. Wanted to eat badly. Passionately. Insanely.

I can go to the refrigerator, look inside, and walk away.

I can smell my husband cooking dinner for his mother and not care.

I can even watch the evil TV (may it rot in hell) advertising fast food hell that I couldn't ever eat again even if I wanted to and only get a slight twinge.
The pain is greater than the high ever was. And I don't need the pain anymore. I suspect that once you have truly gotten on the schedule (i.e., said goodbye to No Snack Mountain for the last time) and become physiologically removed from food triggers, this will happen to you too.

I say this with the caveat that I never had a problem with snacking, but I sure did have a problem with Sweets.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Interestingly on the subject of No Scale, I don't seem to be missing it half as much as I thought, but I have to pay special attention to my body and the amount I eat just in case.

But as above, I would need to do that anyway. :)

f
One must know his limitations. -- John Milius
Beginning weight: 115
Currently: Haven't a clue

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Nichole
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Post by Nichole » Wed May 21, 2008 6:04 pm

Okay, I think I want to give my two cents now.

First of all, I don't think any of you are "in denial" about anything. Though I weigh almost every day, I can totally understand not weighing for a while -- at least until weight/habits are under control. The emotional up-and-downs that scales give sometimes are just NOT WORTH IT. Though I have come to accept that weight fluctuates, it can still be emotional. Also, I don't think that making the scale an obsession is a healthy thing, which is another reason why people want to go No-Scale. Being obsessed with anything is draining and daunting and takes up too much of one's time and thoughts.

So I say what Reinhard seems to be saying: go with works for YOU.
"Anyone can cook." ~ Chef Gusteau, Ratatouille

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reinhard
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Post by reinhard » Thu May 22, 2008 2:34 pm

So I say what Reinhard seems to be saying: go with works for YOU.
Yes. Sorry if I didn't say that clearly enough :-)

Resting -- I am not trying to undermine your effort. Almost everything I've ever written here regarding scales has been pretty anti-. I'm just saying that there seem to be two very different methods for dealing with scale obsession (minimal controlled and daily controlled), and I think both may be appropriate for different kinds of people.
I'd like to welcome and support both here -- as well as people (like myself) who don't have scale issues at all, or can get over them easily.

Reinhard

resting52
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Post by resting52 » Sat May 24, 2008 11:32 am

Thanks, Reinhard,

I know from reading your book that you are pretty anti-scale but also personally aware-as in, "Don't be an idiot," and "hedge around the law."

Thank you for handing us both freedom and wisdom.


Resting

Rheba
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Post by Rheba » Sat May 24, 2008 12:48 pm

I have the date marked on my calendar and will weigh on that day and then mark the next month's weigh day. The rest of the month, I will use my clothes and my "gut feeling" to let me know how I am doing....and I know from experience that my "gut feeling" will be accurate! :) It always has been as far as weight gain is concerned. I know that I am not one to weigh every day but I respect anyone who can and does! This is working for me and as the saying goes: if it ain't broke, don't fix it! :)

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Post by JillyBean » Sat May 24, 2008 1:08 pm

Rheba wrote: This is working for me and as the saying goes: if it ain't broke, don't fix it! :)
I couldn't agree more!! I am weighing myself only once a month too. I am not expecting much of a loss, but I am fine with it (most of the time) because I know the yo-yoing is my other option and that is failure in the long run.
Jill

The food I eat today is my choice! What price am I willing to pay?

"There are no failures, only feedback." ~~ Robert Allen

Rheba
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Post by Rheba » Sat May 24, 2008 1:50 pm

I figure ANY loss is a plus!!! At least it is in the RIGHT direction...downward. :) And I also hate the yo-yo aspect.....Lord knows I've done more than my share of it all these years!!! :lol: I figure I didn't get all these extra pounds on overnight so I can't expect to lose them overnight....altho there have been times when I have had that mindset...otherwise I wouldn't have spent so many dollars on worthless diet plans and gimmicks. :( :oops: :)

resting52
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Post by resting52 » Fri May 30, 2008 11:47 pm

Well, so I peeked today.
Actually I looked.

Got on the doctor scales in MIL's bathroom after lunch and right after a diet coke. I set the scale on my original weight, closed my eyes and started moving the pound indicator down. It went down enough that I opened my eyes, just for a second, and then I looked.

Guess what? Down 5!

I was going to wait until tomorrow morning first thing in the morning, but I've had my scale fix. It was good.

Maybe I'll have another fix in another month.

SO GLAD THAT I HAVE NO SCALED!!!

Resting

Rheba
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Post by Rheba » Sat May 31, 2008 12:31 am

Way to go, resting!!! Proud of you and know you are pleased with the results, too. My day is coming on the 13th. Will have completed two months.
Keep up the good work!!! :D :D

Rheba
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Post by Rheba » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:07 am

second month down. Weighed and lost 1/2 pound. But considering that I lost 8 the first month....I am happy. It averages out to 4 pounds one month and 4 1/2 the next. And I don't think that is bad at all. Going to doctor Monday for another fasting blood sugar....and hoping it is down. If not, I will deal with it. Have had a lot of stress the last three weeks and figure that might have something to do with the small weight loss. And I am coming up on my first father's day without my day...so all in all, I feel it has been an okay month. I am not going to beat myself up over only 1/2 pound.....it is not a gain, it is a loss.

blueskighs
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Post by blueskighs » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:26 am

Rheba,

quote from the NO S diet book
Maintenance is more important than progress
YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!!!!!

Let us know how your bloodsugars are,
Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

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Post by Rheba » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:12 am

Thanks, Blueskighs! :) Noticed I had a typo in my last post....should say dad instead of day! :roll: Hey, I am hanging in here and doing my best and that is all I can do. Yes, Maintenance is great and I am thankful to be where I am at with the plan. Did not eat anything yesterday at my small quilt group meeting. Just explained that I am having some problems with blood sugar and was only eating three meals a day and no inbetweens. The hostess had no problems with it and some of the gals couldn't get over my "willpower" :lol: And this time it would have been food I could eat as a meal.....but way too early! So I was glad that I resisted and came home and ate my meal at a more reasonable time. Was I tempted? Of course!!! :) But it just isn't worth it anymore. I am down a size and want to stay there until the next lower size comes along!!!! :) Thanks again for the encouragement! It helps a lot. :) :)

CrazyCatLady
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Post by CrazyCatLady » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:31 am

Wonderful news! Yay you, and you really have the right attitude! Woo hoo!

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Post by OrganicGal » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:33 pm

I have successfully No Scaled for 18 days now! Maybe more...because I changed my Habitcals and started fresh. I will be weighing myself on July 1st. I started No S-ing on April 11th, when I last weighed myself I had not lost any weight, but I'm pretty sure that now I have started to lose, time will tell. Right now my biggest focus is on the Habits...No S, No Scale and most importantly MwP (movement with purpose)!
Creating and sustaining the No S habits are the only thing that will take me in the direction I want to go!

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Post by blueskighs » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:35 pm

Just explained that I am having some problems with blood sugar and was only eating three meals a day and no inbetweens. The hostess had no problems with it and some of the gals couldn't get over my "willpower"
Rheba,

COOL! 8) It is interesting how easily people accept medical reasons for not indulging and not others. I will keep this one in my hip pocket! :D

I don't have diabetes but I used to monitor my blood sugar. I learned that my mood, energy levels, and cravings were really related to blood sugar swings and that certain things really do spike it up and certain things keep it level. I have not tested it since starting No S, (those test strips are so darn expensive) but maybe one of these days I'll get a pack just to see.

Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

resting52
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Post by resting52 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:39 am

Rheba,

That is awesome! My prayers will be with you in this first Father's Day. Been there.

Blue, thanks for sharing that quote about Maintenance is more important than progress. What page is that on?

I've been thinking about how I know I'm not dropping weight like a rocket, but I'm happy, so happy, about my favorite loss-my weight loss obsession.

Resting

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Post by blueskighs » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:59 am

Resting,

It is on page 124 :D

and I agree,
loss of the weight loss of obsession is very good news!

Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

funfuture
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Post by funfuture » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:49 am

Hi Rheba,

Have had a lot of stress the last three weeks and figure that might have something to do with the small weight loss. .[/quote]

My body works like that too...if I am very stressed or I am not getting enough sleep, then my body gains weight (and certainly doesn't lose it) without much of a change in my eating habits.

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Post by cvmom » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:38 pm

Hi All.

I have read this thread with great interest since I have gone through phases of everyday weighing and never weighing.

Right now, I am in an "no weighing" phase.

But, I do want to mention my most favorite tool to chart my progress: my tapemeasure! Every month I measure myself so that I can see how I am doing. I am currently doing some resistance training which involves some weights. As most you know, when you start to lift weights there is a tendency for the muscles to hold water. So, I feel there is no point in looking at a number and risk getting sad, even though last month I lost over 5 inches. A pound of muscles weighs the same as a pound of fat, but it takes up less space.

The other great way to chart your progress "sans scale" is to use those skinny jeans. You know the ones. They are hanging in your closet right now. Try them on once a week. Or once a month. The don't lie.

Eventually, as you continue your journey on NoS they will fit.

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Post by blueskighs » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:57 pm

As most you know, when you start to lift weights there is a tendency for the muscles to hold water. So, I feel there is no point in looking at a number and risk getting sad, even though last month I lost over 5 inches. A pound of muscles weighs the same as a pound of fat, but it takes up less space.
No, cvmom, I did not know this :D

is it true? :shock: how long does that last? :o is it significant? 8)
BTW losing five inches is very significant!!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS


Blueksighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

cvmom
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Post by cvmom » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:13 pm

Hi Blue.

I got that information about muscles holding water from reading one of Bob Greene's books. He said that when you first start an vigorous exercise program that you really shouldn't weigh yourself for the first month or two because muscles can hold up to 9 pounds of water weight. Just like when you eat low carb, it looks like you can lose 5 pounds in a day, right? Well, that is mostly water weight.

Not to mention that women lose and retain water throughout the month.

So, I do go by my jeans. (Which I am sad to say, are friggin tight now, which is why I am back here! LOL)

But, I have friends who weigh in every day and that works for them. It's obviously a personal choice.

For me, the tapemeasure and my jeans are the best indicators.

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Post by blueskighs » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:08 am

cvmom,

wow I never knew that, nine pounds of water, kind of intense huh?

in the end it really is all about how those jeans fit, huh? :D

Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

resting52
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Post by resting52 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:23 am

I think many of us no-scale folks are actually minimal scale folks. Weighed yesterday and down a total of 7.5. That makes 2.5 for the month. Knowing me, if I had weighed every day of the last 30, the VERY SLOW MOVING NUMBERS would have made me consider sliding off of NoS and into something more restrictive.

NoScaling allowed me to enjoy the freedoms of NoS.

YIPEE!

Resting

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Post by BrightAngel » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:08 pm

cvmom wrote:muscles can hold up to 9 pounds of water weight. Just like when you eat low carb, it looks like you can lose 5 pounds in a day, right? Well, that is mostly water weight.

Not to mention that women lose and retain water throughout the month.
This is totally true.
In tracking my weight daily for the past 3 1/2 years
through using my food journel, Diet Power,
I have discovered that my body frequently bounces around in an 8 lb range.
This bouncing effect of salt/water/waste
is the reason I set myself a 10 lb maintenance weight range.
See the graphic in my signature.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Rheba
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Post by Rheba » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:54 pm

First of all....sorry that I haven't replied sooner to your comments....have been on a quilt trip and having a wonderful time! Bought lots of new fabrics and patterns and got totally inspired.
Second....thanks for all your input..it really does help me stay on track as there are times when you wonder if it is really worth it...and yes, I know that it IS but the stinking thinking can take over really fast and throw a person off track.
Resting.......what a fabulous weight loss! Keep up the good work! :D :D
I am still waiting for my doctor to get back to me with the results of the lab work I had done on the 16th. I called again yesterday and they are SUPPOSED to call me today! If not.......I will call again.
I found out that all my walking during the quilt show felt really good and I have made myself a committment to start walking at least 3 times a week for right now. I know that I need to in order for me to lose weight and besides that, I know that I will feel better. I used to walk at least 3 miles daily and lost that habit when my dad got so sick and I was spending every day at the hospital. So now I need to take care of myself. Besides, my weigh day is coming up on the 11th! I want to see progress....even if it is only a half pound. Just got a call from the dr.'s nurse....blood sugar was good so that is not a worry for me at this time. But I think I will continue to use the blood sugar problem as a reason to not eat the sweet lunches at my quilt group!!! And I do seem to have a legit intolerance for the high sugar foods.........shakes are a really bad problem...can't even write my name when they hit!!!
Sorry this got so long! Have missed checking in with you gals on a regular basis. You keep me on track with myself and my program! Thanks so much!!!! :) :) :)

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