The Most Important "No S" of them All!

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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fkwan
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The Most Important "No S" of them All!

Post by fkwan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:00 am

BrightAngel's posts have made me wonder, though, if it is right for everybody. Reinhard himself posted a disclaimer written by a person with an eating disorder that it may not help a subset of eaters. And I know for myself now with certainty that I cannot binge, no matter what my diet says or what others may do. --Jesseco
When I lost weight the first time on a plain vanilla vegetarian diet with exercise, I had a lot of help from Buddhist philosophy, and one of its tenets might just be the thing to help other binge-ers and people with eating disorders deal with the situation and get the most out of this system.

Buddhists believe in the doctrine of No Self, that there is no such thing as a Separate Self. This seems like a lot of esoteric mumbo-jumbo, but what it essentially means is that ourselves are our minds, and our minds, made up of thoughts, can change every minute. Ourselves are also our bodies, and technically they can change with every cell death or cell regeneration.

If you change a habit, or stop doing something, basically you are becoming a different person mentally, even though "you" still have the same body (more or hopefully less), same name and address, and so on. So it's perfectly possible that, by not bingeing, even though it's difficult, you might get to the mental stage at which "you" do not binge, that "you" do not have an "eating disorder". I used to imagine myself acting like those French ladies who can eat anything and walk their butts over Kingdom Come, and damn if it didn't work! I ate like a French lady, even if I didn't look like Catherine Deneuve (sigh) :(

This is the fancy Asian version of ""As a man thinketh in his heart so is he". The only difference is that the Buddhist version relies more on the action itself to determine the transformation; you're not thinking about it, but actually changing the behavior.

f

DianeA2Z
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Post by DianeA2Z » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:43 am

f, that's brilliant! Thank you so much for sharing. There is so much to be learned from Buddhist philosophy.

I find also, that what I've learned from Eckhart Tolle's book "A New Earth" has changed me and helped me so much. What he talks about in his book dovetails beautifully with the Buddhist philosophy of "no self". Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer also have learned much from Buddhist philosophy and they are two of my favorite authors. I've learned much from them that has helped me in recent years.

Good stuff, f, good stuff 8)

Diane
Visit www.MaximizeYourWellness.com
(Ok, a shameless plug). I'm just here to learn how to say No to the S!

angelka71
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Post by angelka71 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:35 am

Thank you for posting this! Very inspirational! So...my behaviors are changing and soon the body will follow. Great to keep in mind!

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OrganicGal
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Post by OrganicGal » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:03 pm

Great post!! I too like the buddist philosophies and have read Wayne Dyer in the past couple of years. I would like to get the Eckert Tolle book, as I've heard a lot about it.

As backwards as it might sound, if I bring the philsophies of local and taking care of our planet and organic/healthy eating for all, that I have for my store into my 'self', I would really be doing a good service to my 'self' and thus expanding beyond my 'self'. LOL, does that make sense to anyone else?
Creating and sustaining the No S habits are the only thing that will take me in the direction I want to go!

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:16 pm

Another author you might be interested in is Ecknath Easwaran, especially his book Take Your Time. If anyone has read any of the Laurel's Kitchen cookbooks, this is the teacher they talk about.
http://nilgiri.org/

fkwan, what you say reminds me of a couple of things (my apologies in advance, this is probably going to get long!)...

Some years ago I was having a discussion with a friend who had realized that his life wasn't working in many ways. He was doing some soul-searching to determine why it wasn't working and may have gone through some therapy, too. He thought that knowing "why" things weren't working would make it possible for him to make the necessary changes.

He knew what changes needed to be made - it wasn't like he didn't know what to do. But by trying to determine why he did what he did, he was just delaying the inevitable: making the necessary changes. If he just made the changes, his life would have worked! If the "why?" was still important, he could worry about that while living a life that worked!

We may be hardwired to be lustful instead of chaste, gluttonous instead of temperate, greedy instead of charitable, slothful instead of diligent, wrathful instead of patient, envious instead of kind, and prideful instead of humble. What has kept our behavior civilized over the generations are habit and tradition. What has changed is that lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride have become not only socially acceptable, but are encouraged.

In the mid-90's I read an article (which I have saved somewhere) in Prevention magazine called "How in the World to Stay Slim." It disucssed the habits and traditions of eating and exercise in various cultures and countries around the world: Japan, China, Burma, Sweden, Great Britain, France, the Netherlands and Italy.

Obviously, the foods eaten by the people in these countries varied significantly, but their habits didn't. They moved more (as in walking, biking and so on), they ate smaller portions, they didn't permasnack (though many of them had routine times for specific snacks -- like the English tea), desserts and sweets weren't part of daily life and they typically had a starchy food that was more important in their diet than meat (rice, bread, pasta, potatoes and so on). I think there were one or two more things that I can't remember.

These habits, as well as the specific foods eaten, had been followed for not only generations, but centuries in these areas. Greed and gluttony weren't issues because the habits were so ingrained. You didn't overeat because it wasn't the habit; it wasn't socially acceptable. As Reinhard says in the book, Jews and Muslims don't obsess over whether or not to eat pork or shellfish, and there aren't mountains of articles on how to avoid them, because the habit is not to eat them.

In his 2004 New York Times article "Our National Eating Disorder",
Michael Pollan wrote:While our senses can help us to draw the first, elemental distinctions between good and bad foods, we humans rely heavily on culture to keep it all straight. So we codify the rules of wise eating in an elaborate structure of taboos, rituals, manners and culinary traditions, covering everything from the proper size of portions to the order in which foods should be consumed to the kinds of animals it is O.K. to eat. Anthropologists may argue whether all these rules make biological sense, but certainly a great many of them do, and they keep us from having to re-enact the omnivore's dilemma at every meal.

One way to think about America's national eating disorder is as the return, with an almost atavistic vengeance, of the omnivore's dilemma. The cornucopia of the American supermarket has thrown us back onto a bewildering food landscape where we once again have to worry that some of those tasty-looking morsels might kill us. At the same time, many of the tools with which people historically managed the omnivore's dilemma have lost their sharpness, or simply failed, in the United States today. As a relatively new nation drawn from many different immigrant populations, each with its own culture of food, we Americans find ourselves without a strong, stable culinary tradition to guide us.
We may not have our own culture of food or a strong, stable culinary tradition in terms of what to eat, but the peoples of the various populations that have created our country have (or had) many of the same habits. Since the mid-to-late twentieth century, we've chosen or been taught to ignore most of them.

I've come across this in several places:
I am your constant companion. I am
your greatest helper or heaviest burden.
I will push you onward or drag you down
to failure. I am completely at your command.
Half the things I do you might as well
turn over to me and I will be able to do
them quickly and correctly.

I am easily managed - you must merely
be firm with me. Show me exactly how you
want something done and after a few
lessons I will do it automatically. I am the
servant of all great individuals and, alas, of
all failures as well. Those who are great, I
have made great. Those who are failures,
I have made failures.

I am not a machine, though I work
with all the precision of a machine plus
the intelligence of a human. You may run
me for profit or run me for ruin - it
makes no difference to me.

Take me, train me, be firm with me,
and I will place the world at your feet. Be
easy with me and I will destroy you.

Who am I?

I am Habit.
Habits are important!
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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fkwan
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Post by fkwan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:20 pm

OrganicGal wrote:Great post!! I too like the buddist philosophies and have read Wayne Dyer in the past couple of years. I would like to get the Eckert Tolle book, as I've heard a lot about it.

As backwards as it might sound, if I bring the philsophies of local and taking care of our planet and organic/healthy eating for all, that I have for my store into my 'self', I would really be doing a good service to my 'self' and thus expanding beyond my 'self'. LOL, does that make sense to anyone else?
OG, you just hit upon one of the other, more important, Buddhist tenets. Since there isn't really any permanent Self, there isn't any barrier between "you" and "all other beings". So the answer to your question is a BIG FAT YES! :P

f

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fkwan
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Post by fkwan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:25 pm

Wos:

(What's a "wosnes"? Is it pronounced WOSNESS or Wones? :lol: )
wosnes wrote:Another author you might be interested in is Ecknath Easwaran, especially his book Take Your Time. If anyone has read any of the Laurel's Kitchen cookbooks, this is the teacher they talk about.
http://nilgiri.org/
Hm, will check out book. He's the translator of my copy of the Dhammapada (Buddhist equivalent of the Bible).

Also would like to find that Prevention article. :)

I can't argue with anything you've said, because I've experienced all of it. I'm sitting here eating my bowl of multigrain Kashi, which essentially tastes like burned Styrofoam, and loving every minute of it (not making this up). It tastes great with almond milk, apples, bananas, flax and hemp protein, which looks like plant food (green speckles).

I'm not missing a damned thing.

hugs, f

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bonnieUK
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Re: The Most Important "No S" of them All!

Post by bonnieUK » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:00 pm

fkwan wrote: This is the fancy Asian version of ""As a man thinketh in his heart so is he". The only difference is that the Buddhist version relies more on the action itself to determine the transformation; you're not thinking about it, but actually changing the behavior.
f
Great post!

I definitely think Buddhist philosophy has a lot to offer, in life generally and with regards to developing good habits.

Coincidentally, I was reading recently about Buddhist Monks and the various precepts they're supposed to follow. One of which was "not to eat at innapropriate times" with some Buddhist Monks/Nuns having a rule not to eat past mid-day (so I guess they'd just have breakfast, lunch and nothing else apart from tea which apparently is allowed as it isn't considered a food), however as I understand it, others have a rule of simply not eating between meals. I also read that the historical Buddha, while striving to reach enlightenment, tried many ascetic practices, such as extreme fasting but then came to the conclusion that a more sensible approach to eating was better, finding a logical middle way between extreme deprivation and over indulgence - sounds a bit like a No S approach!

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fkwan
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Re: The Most Important "No S" of them All!

Post by fkwan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:10 pm

bonnieUK wrote: Coincidentally, I was reading recently about Buddhist Monks and the various precepts they're supposed to follow. One of which was "not to eat at innapropriate times" with some Buddhist Monks/Nuns having a rule not to eat past mid-day (so I guess they'd just have breakfast, lunch and nothing else apart from tea which apparently is allowed as it isn't considered a food), however as I understand it, others have a rule of simply not eating between meals. I also read that the historical Buddha, while striving to reach enlightenment, tried many ascetic practices, such as extreme fasting but then came to the conclusion that a more sensible approach to eating was better, finding a logical middle way between extreme deprivation and over indulgence - sounds a bit like a No S approach!
Yes on both counts.

The Buddhist path is also referred to as "the Middle Way." :)

f

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Mavilu
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Post by Mavilu » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:16 pm

Fkwan, are you a buddhist?.
I researched diferent religions a few years ago, to try to find my spirituality and of all, Buddhism is the one I resonated with the most, sadly, I did not continue studying because I became confused as how is that one becomes a buddhist, there really isn't a baptism, an exam or anything that will make you do the transition more "official" and tangible and I lost the way.
Anyway, you inspire me to renovate my interest and keep researching and reading about The Buddha, thank you!.
By the way:
If you change a habit, or stop doing something, basically you are becoming a different person mentally, even though "you" still have the same body (more or hopefully less), same name and address, and so on.
Yes!, this happened to me when I stopped smoking years ago, somehow, something shifted and I was no longer a "smoker"; it was the weirdest thing: smoking just did not make any sense any longer and so many years after the fact, even if surrounded by cigarette smoke (and I still do like how it smells) I just don't feel like having one, because the smoker in me left long time ago.
It seems to be the same with snacking, a while after I stopped snacking, it just didn't make sense any longer, either.

I don't know how that happened, how I did it, so I can't offer pointers, but I can offer the reassurance that it is true, you do change when you truly want to change, nothing can stop you but yourself; I doubt The Buddha coined the phrase Mind over Matter, but it applies to his doctrine beautifully.

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Post by blueskighs » Thu May 01, 2008 3:30 am

kwan,

having quit smoking 22 years ago, stopped drinking 21 years ago, coffeee, 4 years ago, meat 2 years ago ...

I like that ... a lot. I think when we do let go of this habits/addictions we become different people... TRANSFORMED as it were. and the process can be bumpy but rewarding.

It does require a certain amount of perseverance but that perseverance pays off in spades. The release of a binding habit/addiction that frees our being and energy for other endeavors.

For me my binging is my last physical addiction... that is why I am so excited about No S ... I hear the clink of the deadly chains as they fall... I know from other transformations it takes, for me, a bit more than 21 days :D to make the total transformation ... usually somewhere between one and two years ... getting through completely the cycles of the seasons and all that they engender ... holidays, rituals, expectations ...memories...
it is a lovely process and I am excited to be releasing my binging behaviors through NO S!

Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

icz
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Post by icz » Thu May 01, 2008 2:29 pm

What a great discussion.

It is clear that some sort of mind-shift has to take place to lose weight and keep it off. (Both on a personal level, and a cultural level if society is going to stop warring with food.) I love reading about Buddhism -- Pema Chodron is one of my favorite authors; I highly recommend her books.

Anyway, some people who are able to lose weight and keep it off do it by becoming 'holier than thou' and viewing being overweight as a moral failing. I don't see it that way. I think we are fighting a lot of biology when we resist overconsumption. I think we are wired to store that energy when faced with abundance. So, I believe the power to resist it has to come from somewhere else -- like spirituality. (Not any particular one.) Or, a serious shift in perspective. . .one that does not emphasize restriction, because humans don't do well with scarcity mentality.

flipturn
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Post by flipturn » Thu May 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Wow, wosnes -- I really loved the 'poem' (is it?) about habit and have printed it out. Thank you for posting that.

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fkwan
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Post by fkwan » Thu May 01, 2008 4:10 pm

blueskighs wrote:kwan,

having quit smoking 22 years ago, stopped drinking 21 years ago, coffeee, 4 years ago, meat 2 years ago ...

I like that ... a lot. I think when we do let go of this habits/addictions we become different people... TRANSFORMED as it were. and the process can be bumpy but rewarding.
That's how I had the realization. A friend was going in for surgery. He went in as a smoker. He came out never smoking again...

Or so I thought. He went back to smoking, but hell, I got the insight and lost 47 pounds!

f

blueskighs
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Post by blueskighs » Thu May 01, 2008 4:12 pm

I think we are fighting a lot of biology when we resist overconsumption.
icz,
this is so true! In fact Reinhard addresses this in the book in a section: Is it better to eat when I am hungry?
It basically says the same thing you are saying, because food used to be hard to come by, hunger kept us from starving, since most of us live in a climate of superabundance with food, our hunger is not reliable for MODERTATION.. I think that is how Reinhard puts it, say yes, we have to rely on something else
with abundance.
So, I believe the power to resist it has to come from somewhere else -- like spirituality. (Not any particular one.) Or, a serious shift in perspective. . .one that does not emphasize restriction, because humans don't do well with scarcity mentality.
I agree with this too, there has to be a mental shift inspired by either spirituality, new understanding and/or experience.

Great thread,

Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

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Beckycan
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Post by Beckycan » Thu May 01, 2008 6:15 pm

fkwan wrote:
I can't argue with anything you've said, because I've experienced all of it. I'm sitting here eating my bowl of multigrain Kashi, which essentially tastes like burned Styrofoam, and loving every minute of it (not making this up). It tastes great with almond milk, apples, bananas, flax and hemp protein, which looks like plant food (green speckles).

I'm not missing a damned thing.

hugs, f
The "burned Styrofoam" cracked me up! :lol:

I'm a Christian, but feel that there's alot of wisdom to be found in other cultures and religions. I like the ideas you've all presented about changing our mindset; I believe it is a very important part of changing ourselves -- to begin to think of ourselves as what we are becoming. I think I'll go change my avatar to represent this...

Becky
SW 295
CW 292
GW 175

A turtle travels only when he sticks his neck out. Korean Proverb

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fkwan
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Post by fkwan » Thu May 01, 2008 6:37 pm

Beckycan wrote:I believe it is a very important part of changing ourselves -- to begin to think of ourselves as what we are becoming.
Becky
Well, not exactly...but kinda sorta.

You're neither beginning nor becoming.

You're already there! :P

By the time you think about it, you're already something else. :)

f

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Jaymiz
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Post by Jaymiz » Fri May 02, 2008 10:12 pm

Beckycan wrote:I'm a Christian, but feel that there's alot of wisdom to be found in other cultures and religions. I like the ideas you've all presented about changing our mindset; I believe it is a very important part of changing ourselves -- to begin to think of ourselves as what we are becoming. I think I'll go change my avatar to represent this...

Becky
I'm a Christian, too, and found the one post (something about being "Transformed") reminded me of the Bible verse Romans 12:2, which says to "be transformed by the renewing of your mind"...

I've known, for a while now, that I have to get my MIND in the right place before I'm ever going to be fully successful in my weight loss efforts -- and be able to KEEP the weight off for good! :roll:

Easier said than done, though! It's not easy to change long-held beliefs... getting over the "diet mentality" is a real struggle for me. I've been working at it for 3 years, and am still not fully out of it.
http://jaymiz.wordpress.com (The 'No S' Life)
"The more you do a thing, the easier it becomes" ~ Anon.

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