What if you ARE an idiot who WANTS TO punish herself?

[trytrytry]

Ok, today is an S day - I know we can "get away" with eating too much. I know that whether I'll eat a peach as a snack or a whole chocolate cake it will still be a yellow day.

I also know I shouldn't be an idiot, but I am.

How do you STOP?

There was a good thread on binging/self-punishment.
http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3292
It was helpful, but here is where I am:
I am feeling low and angry. I know food won't make me feel better, but I still want it! I still want it, even though I know it is a form of self-punishment. But I also want to punish myself. Because I am angry with myself and what is even worse I feel like I really don't like myself. So I might just as well spend a whole day on the couch making myself even more miserable, because why not?!

I feel it's a vicious circle - the more I eat, the more miserable I feel, the more I want to punish myself, the more I eat. How to STOP?

[NoelFigart]

I find it helpful. when faced with a decision on whether or not to do something, to remind myself that I'm not helpless in the face of whatever's going on and to keep saying, "I'm choosing to do this."

I used glass ceiling to keep from drinking too much. The way I did it was, if after the second drink, I wanted another, I'd say to myself, "If I walk into that kitchen, it's me conscious choosing to walk to the freezer to get the bottle of vodka. If I feel that cold bottle in my hand, it will be because I made a conscious choice to do it. I'm not helpless. I am in control of my actions. I made a commitment to myself not to have more than two drinks in a day and if I break it, it will be a conscious choice to do so."

It was powerful for me.

[rose]

Ok, today is an S day - I know we can "get away" with eating too much. I know that whether I'll eat a peach as a snack or a whole chocolate cake it will still be a yellow day.

I also know I shouldn't be an idiot, but I am.

How do you STOP?
...
I feel it's a vicious circle - the more I eat, the more miserable I feel, the more I want to punish myself, the more I eat. How to STOP?

Come on, ease up a bit on yourself. Your N days are good, right? Isn't it already a progress in itself? Are your current S-days really really worse than an average pre-No-S day?

Last year I worked on getting my S-days under control, by eating 3 square meals and buying the best available pastry as a 4pm snack. At first I ate a lot more Ss than just the pastry. Then for several months the pastry was enough. Then life got hectic and I lost all my S-day habits and I had to rebuild them from scratch several times (including right now).

But through it all my N-days were almost always letter-of-the-law perfect (even if my plates were a bit fuller than reasonable _sometimes_). This in itself is a huge victory. This is what prevented me from gaining back the weight I had lost. N-days are the important thing.

Try to enjoy your S-days. If you eat too much, use your stomach ache as a motivation to eat a little bit less the next time. Listen to your body, not your emotions . If you don't have a stomach ache, then it could mean that you did not really eat a lot more than on an N-day: either your N-day portions are still a bit too big and you should work on that before worrying about your S-days, or your S-day wildness is a lot tamer than mine can get so nothing to worry about.

[trytrytry]

Hi guys - thanks a lot!

I think what bothers me most is that when I get myself uncomfortably stuffed (including the stomach ache!) that's when I can't stop eating I really don't quite get it, but I've done it several times. It's like once I'm past the limit, there are no more limits...

I have that actually a bit with sleeping too - once I get really miserable and tired, I will not go to bed until really late, knowing that next day I will feel more miserable and tired - this makes me go to bed even later the following day and so on... Sometimes it takes quite a few days for me to stop that cycle. Once I get a good night's sleep, I feel way better.

And in both cases, I do realize at a time that what I am doing is against the logic, but it just isn't enough to stop me.

On the positive side, I did somehow manage to stop my morning binge (by having a nap ), my stomach feels a little less full now, which makes me feel a little more in control.

It definitely does help to know that I am not the only one who has bad Sdays and that a bad Sday does not mean I've failed noS already. Maybe this is a part of the noS magic - knowing that having a weak day does not have to mean I should give up.
Hopefully with that, I will be able to have a good N day tomorrow, as opposed to giving up completely what would have probably happened if it was a normal diet.

I only wish I could stop putting myself down on purpose...

[NoelFigart]

that's when I can't stop eating I really don't quite get it, but I've done it several times. It's like once I'm past the limit, there are no more limits...

What you're telling yourself is that you have no choice. The thing is, you do. You really, really do.

Every second, you're choosing. Every time you take an action you're choosing.

Thing is, conscious choice DOES take energy. That's where habit and autopilot comes in. Right now your autopilot is trained to crash. That doesn't make you a bad person. It's merely normal for our culture right now. But you can reprogram that autopilot. It merely takes time for each habit you want to establish. You CAN do it. Take it in little steps if you must. (I have to. You would not believe how tiny some of my baby steps were when I decided that developing WILL was something I wanted for myself).

All that power that you feel your ineffective habits have? Think of how good it will feel when that enormous power is put behind things that serve you! And it's a snowball effect that spills over wonderfully in a lot of your life in other ways.

[trytrytry]

I think at a time, I actually feel like it IS my choice: I know I will make myself feel worse. I know it I am not enjoying the food I am eating. Maybe I could (?) make myself stop, but I don't want to, because I don't see the point. Because I don't feel like it is (I am?) worth the effort... I know the first step to change something is to really want to change it. But in those moments, I just feel like I should be putting myself more and more down and I don't quite know why...

[BrightAngel]

Every second, you're choosing.
Every time you take an action you're choosing.

Thing is, conscious choice DOES take energy.
That's where habit and autopilot comes in.
Right now your autopilot is trained to crash.
That doesn't make you a bad person. It's merely normal for our culture right now.
But you can reprogram that autopilot.
It merely takes time for each habit you want to establish.

I agree with these statements.
I'm beginning to understand that my "autopilot is trained to crash"
and I'm working like mad to re-train it.

[rose]

I think what bothers me most is that when I get myself uncomfortably stuffed (including the stomach ache!) that's when I can't stop eating I really don't quite get it, but I've done it several times. It's like once I'm past the limit, there are no more limits...

I have that actually a bit with sleeping too - once I get really miserable and tired, I will not go to bed until really late, knowing that next day I will feel more miserable and tired - this makes me go to bed even later the following day and so on... Sometimes it takes quite a few days for me to stop that cycle. Once I get a good night's sleep, I feel way better.

Hmmm... same here. Though I am getting a little better at both with experience. I think subconsciously "stomach ache = hungry", and "tiredness=boredom". When it happens I have to tell myself explicitly that eating more won't make the ache go away and that staying up late at the computer will not make the miserable feeling go away. Sometimes it doesn't work, or I don't realize what I am doing until it's too late. Live and learn. I think I have made some progress anyway through sheer repetition of these life experiences.

[CrazyCatLady]

From the No S page....

Why is this diet so much better?
Because it is simple, sustainable, and you aren't really depriving yourself of anything. You don't have to sacrifice anything -- not time, not health, not money, not any delicious thing. No pleasure is denied, just unobtrusively delayed and contained. Served up on the platter of limited opportunity, each pleasure becomes even more enjoyable than it was before.

There are no magic potions and there are no poisons. You are targeting just the culprit, just the bad habit of overeating itself.

Ask yourself if you can imagine staying on a particular diet for the rest of your life. If not, don't bother starting, it's a waste of time and will.

Try....you are still pretty new to No S. I encourage you to trust the process, and believe Reinhard when he says that S days will get better. He said "No pleasure is denied, just unobrtusively delayed and contained." Maybe instead of trying to beat down those cravings and desires with willpower, you can just realize that NOTHING is denied. Picture yourself standing, with some of your No S buddies nearby...together we are strong. Yes, you can have it all. But you are very special...you deserve the BEST! Eating a sweet or snack is no longer an act of self destruction. It is simply a small indulgence, to be enjoyed!

One tip I have heard is to write some affirming things on index cards, and carry them in your pocket. When you are feeling like putting yourself down, you could pull them out and read them.

And by all means, be gentle to yourself as you learn this new (old) revolutionary way of nourishing yourself.

Also from the No S page....

What if I am an idiot and insist on following the letter of the law but breaking it in spirit by (say) eating a gallon of ice cream every S-day and counting my second cousin's hamster's birthday as an S-day?
Then I can't help you. You will be fat and die young.

Seriously, this is less of an issue than you think. I haven't heard of anyone messing this diet up because they followed the rules during the week and overbinged on the weekends. But I have heard from plenty of people who anticipate this being a problem, burden themselves with weekend restrictions to prevent it, and then crack during the week because it's too much. S-days are a necessary reward and safety valve. As a group member succinctly put it:

S days should be S days so N days aren't.
("N-days" are short for "non-S-days")

You are doing fine, sister. I had some excessive S days, too, and in time they did get much better....through habit, not through willpower!

[kccc]

Trytry, you've actually hit an important place.

Putting new habits in place is hard. It takes time. And if you read anything about habit change, part of the process is that you catch yourself AFTER you've messed up.

It's common to beat yourself up then because you failed. But really, it's progress. You've NOTICED that you did not do what you wanted. The next time (or the next, or the next), you will catch yourself earlier. You will continue to move toward new habits AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION.

So keep moving.

One thing that helps when I feel that way is to ask myself "what WOULD help?" And sometimes I can find something.

Sometimes it's hard to find alternatives when I'm in the bottom of the valley... so I try to think of some when I'm in a better place, write them down, and pull them out when I need them.

Give yourself time. You are learning to use your strength FOR yourself instead of AGAINST yourself.

[blueskighs]

I think what bothers me most is that when I get myself uncomfortably stuffed (including the stomach ache!) that's when I can't stop eating I really don't quite get it, but I've done it several times. It's like once I'm past the limit, there are no more limits...

trytrytry,

I have this same response to overeating. I have been aware of it for quite some time but unable to really do much about until No S. It's like overeating itself is the greatest trigger for overeating. Overeating for me flips the switch from feeling in control to feeling out of control ... maybe it is just because overeating really does just feel YUCK!

anyway ... even yesterday morning i had two donuts (what has been my usual) instead of the one I thought would satisfy. Well I was right the first one was delicious and completely satisfied but I ate the second one mostly just because I had bought it and it was there. To be truthful I didn't enjoy it like the first one and was kind of bummed I ate it. When I finished I noticed I wanted to go back to the donut store and BUY MORE DONUTS and eat them all ... I was able to just notice my thought processes and not act on them. But I know it was simply overeating that second donut that triggered the desire to binge. I have slowly and gradually been reducing more portions and the time had come to go from two donuts to one.

This morning I had one donut and it was perfect. NO DESIRE TO BINGE. So now I am just working on developing my skill and assessing what is the best amount to eat at each meal. I am already getting better ... I am sure that as I keep at this it will become less and less an issue.

There is another thread about lo-carbing. I think the thing with the carbs is the same thing .. some of us are just more likely to OVEREAT carbs so that the overeating not the carbs is the issue.

TRICKSY stuff, but No S is a way out of the maze and back to the road of a sane relationship with food!

Hang in there. Oh the other thing is I did a program called shrink yourself before No S. Although I gained 11 pounds while doing it over three months it was really profound. THe longer I am doing No S the more I am thinking that the work in Shrink Yourself www.shrinkyourself.com really is helping me stick to No S better. I didn't plan it this way, its just how it worked out But for anyone who has problem with emotional eating and/or "not liking yourself" ... there is a book and online program ... the work is actually very deep so it is not for the faint of heart, at any rate you might enjoy this article from that site http://www.shrinkyourself.com/5_surpris ... eating.asp


Blueskighs

[trytrytry]

I am going to be brief for now, because I have to get up early tomorrow, but THANK YOU ALL so much!!! You don't know how much I appreciate your replies and comments!

At the end, with the new positive approach I decide to call this day a SUCCESS day:
after all the only rule/suggestion for an Sday is "don't be an idiot" - and I do feel like I have learnt something today, so I couldn't have been a complete idiot, could I?

Wish you all a good start of the week!!!

[blueskighs]

after all the only rule/suggestion for an Sday is "don't be an idiot" - and I do feel like I have learnt something today, so I couldn't have been a complete idiot, could I?

trytrytry,

what a great way to look at it!

Blueskighs

[FarmerHal]

try, I was in your place several times... I started noSing dec. 15 2006 and several times I've found myself doing just that- stuffing myself. hating myself.

It took some nudging from other nosers to realize I have to be a little tough with myself. I call it my tummy toddler. You have to set rules and boundaries for toddlers, if nothing just for their safety, and it's the same for your tummy.

It took me telling myself to walk away from the kitchen- my kitchen/dining/living rooms make a circle, so I would find myself pacing that circle telling myself dinner was only in a couple hours away. And even though that was all I could do for those couple of hours, once I made it, new habits started to form.

Now if I feel hunger, it goes largely ignored or washed away with water until it's actually meal time again.

Don't feel like you have to keep punishing yourself with food and self-hatred. You are a beautiful, special person, worth a lot! If this were a friend telling you all these terrible things about yourself, I bet you wouldn't be friends for long.

I guess I'm not sure where I'm going with this post but hang in there, persevere- keep pushing on. Your new habits will take over, you'll realize food isn't really everything (although dang, it's tasty!), you'll realize that perhaps you enjoy walking, or start a new hobby (I've started tinkering with hydroponics- soiless gardening). Pick up a book, Go outside and listen to the birds, appreciate the beauty of the outdoors, etc. Heck, even go wash your car to distract yourself from the kitchen.

Hang in there, keep trying, try

[trytrytry]

Right. So don't be an idiot is this weekend's challenge!

Once again thanks a lot for all your support and advice. I feel like despite my brain and body both being very resistant, I am learning and my habits are improving slowly.

Noel maybe my brain hasn't clicked yet on how to apply the "my choice" strategy, but it did a better job with little steps. I couldn't quite figure out at first what those little steps should be, but then I thought: right, I'll stop eating for 30 min. So I left the kitchen trying to decide what I am going to eat later (pizza was the main temptation) but then that was it! I didn't have anything else until breakfast the next day (which luckily was an Nday!)!

rose You are right! I am doing ok on my Ndays, even though two weeks ago I thought no sweets no snacking was going to be way too difficult. And I am learning to overcome a lot of temptations! So I am trying to be a bit easier on myself. After all, I'm not here because I expect a miracle, I'm here to work on my habits. So it is bound to be a long process. So as long as I am making progress, however small, it is a good start!
btw - I really like your progress chart! Very encouraging!

crazycatlady Those quotes were right there what I needed to hear! I guess for some of us, the excessive Sdays are just part of the process, no need to panic!

KCCC I really like your idea of looking for alternative solutions when feeling better as opposed to when being at the bottom. I think, one thing I realized is that when I am feeling really low and I try to kill it with food, then, even if it is just an apple, I end up not being able to stop eating. So now I am trying to catch myself before that first snack!

Bluskighs Your donuts story made me laugh - it was like looking into the mirror! It's so weird that overeating can trigger even more overeating! But I am really glad you shared it - I don't tend to talk to people about my eating habits/problems, but knowing other people are having similar issues (and are working on them!) makes me feel less like a weirdo, hence better, hence less emotionally unstable and in general more optimistic. I had a look at the webpages too - I could definitely identify myself with a lot of points in that article!!!


shamrochmommy I think it is the self-hatred I am having the biggest problem with... Sometimes, I just find it so hard to be friends with myself!!! And although distraction usually does work, I often feel like I shouldn't be distracting myself doing nice things, as I have so much to do (work-wise and so on). So I end-up distracting myself with food. I think this is a bad habit I developed when I was still a child/teenager - it seemed easier to go an tell my parents "I will do it after I eat, I am really hungry" than to say "I will do it after I have some fun..." huh.


So anyways - it is becoming a really long post, but 1) I wanted to let you know that you encouragement really helps me a lot and 2) I thought it would be good to go over these things in my head at the start of the S days.

And just to finish with an optimistic touch: I think that going through the struggles and not giving up makes me feel more confident that I will be able to stick to noS for longer. It is easy to keep going when I feel all happy and cool. But I haven't been feeling all happy and cool all that time and I have had a lot of temptations that I manage to resist. Which means I moved on (or rather I am moving on) from thinking "I will worry about my diet once I sort out myself psychologically" to realizing that snacking is not helping to sort my emotions in any way. So the biggest success of this week is for me not that I my trousers and my belt feel a little looser (I think I might actually need to make a new hole!), but the fact that I am still here and still noSing!

Have a lovely weekend!

[BrightAngel]

Which means I moved on (or rather I am moving on) from thinking
"I will worry about my diet once I sort out myself psychologically"
to realizing that "snacking is not helping to sort my emotions in any way".

Excellent Insight.

[palomayombe]

**********************

[babyprrr]

ugh I know the feeling. I've just had a ridiculously idiotic S day.

[trytrytry]

I have never heard of a prison where they overfeed inmates as a punishment.

On the contrary, they are starved.

I guess starving people is cheaper and technically easier than overfeeding them!

I have a suggestion: next time you want to punish yourself hit the floor, give me 50 pushups, get up, run a mile and go a little hungry the rest of the day!

Yeah, but... that would be actually good for me!!!

[blueskighs]

I have a difficult time accepting over eating as a punishment.

I used to have this same EXACT problem

until my eating started slowing down on a consistent basis and I realized it really does FEEL just AWFUL to stuff oneself ....
of course if they did stuff prison inmates with white flour , sugary things, and such they would probably much more lethargic and placid

Blueskighs

[angelka71]

I haven't read all the responses but one I once read a great idea that has helped me immensly.

At some point in your life, you have succeeded at something. Something you NEVER thought you'd be able to do and yet, you did it. In fact, there have probably been several things. Write them down and write down the main 3 things it took for you to succeed. This is very eye opening.

For me, the first thing was faith. No, I didn't have faith that I absolutely COULD do it...but I wasn't convinced that I COULDN"T do it either and that was enough. The second thing was persistance...I simply kept trying. And the third thing was for me, imagining how great things would be once I succeeded.

It'll be different for everyone, but this was consistant in everything I was proud of succeeding at and it reinforced my confidence that if I was able to do X, then maybe I could do Y too.

Hope that helps.

[Mavilu]

of course if they did stuff prison inmates with white flour , sugary things, and such they would probably much more lethargic and placid

Blueskighs

Hehe, for some reason I pictured a row of immates with big bellies, arms crossed over their bellies and sporting beatific smiles and sighs of content.
Truly, the world would be a different place if that would be the case!.