describe ur s-days

[jemima_potter]

hey guys -
am new to this cool diet and i m loving it so far!
like probably all of u i love the s days bunches - yet i worry whether how much i eat on those days might be too much and make me gain weight in the end......
it would be very helpful to compare my sday eating plan to urs -
what and how much are u consuming?
here is mine:javascript:emoticon(':oops:')
Embarassed

3 pancakes with fruit syrup and peanutbutter
3 handfull of cashew nuts (not roasted)
3 small rolls
2 biskuits
two big portions of fried pasta with some cheese topping
3 pieces of lemon cake
4 tortillas filled with either some soy cheese or peanut butter and honey
3 middle sized servings of rice
about 10 almonds
some fat free pringels
5 vegan cookies

i know - it sounds soooooooo much - and it is - it s just i dont know how to control anything when having the opportunity to indulge!!!!
PLEASE HELP ME - i want to LOSE weight and not GAIN any!
would it be better in the end not to have s-days?

thank u so much for responding!

jem

[cvmom]

Jem - there's no need to feel embarrassed. I think a lot of people, when they start, can't believe that they have freedom and so they tend to overdo it. Its kind of like kids in an amusement park. Ever watched them when they run in? They start running around in circles because they don't know which ride to get on first.

Don't worry. As you get your NoS habits down, then your food intake will change. As you start to eat more healthfully during the week, you will find that eating too many sweets will probably make you ill and you will naturally stop. I can't say how long this will take, because each person is different.

I wouldn't even keep track of what you eat on an S day. Once you have a few weeks of compliance under your belt, a few handfuls of cookies won't make a difference. I can say this with confidence because I have lived it. Its the daily overeating that will do you in. But, with NoS you will enjoy your treats.

I can't give you an example of a Typical SDay because life varies.
Trust yourself.

[anovelgirl]

I had my first S weekend, and didn't do too bad, even though I was allowed!

I actually had three pieces of good chocolate, trying to go along the lines of "quality over quantity", and then I had some soda, pizza and cinnamon sticks - but it wasn't as over the top as I thought it might be. The next day was pretty calm and collected, more so than the first. All in all, it wasn't a huge S weekend.

I didn't "make" myself be really bad, because I figure eventually, a day will roll around when I really overdo it. And I'm really thinking about doing only one S day a week, just because it appeals to me. I'll have to see, however, at the end of my first month.

[rose]

One way to go at it is to trust the process, accept that you might gain some weight at first, and hope/believe that your stomach size will decrease (due to N-days) and that the novelty of being able to eat anything and will wear off after a few weeks.

Another way to go at it is to define your S-day menu beforehand, make it like an N-day but with a very good treat planned in the afternoon. Then try to follow your plan but don't worry if you end up eating somewhat more than planned. It's an S-day after all.
Writing down everything like you did helps track down excesses as well as progress. My daily-checkin thread is almost exclusively devoted to S-day description now that my N-days are easy.

questions:
Did you eat more on this S-day than you did on an ordinary day before NoS?
Do you eat veggies sometimes? (there's nothing wrong with an occasional veggie-free S-day of course but having a balanced diet - at least on N days - helps a lot).
Do you fail often on N-days? For beginners creating strong N-day habits is more important than worrying about S-days.
How long have you been NoS-ing?

Personally my S-days have varied a lot from N-day+treat to stomach-ache day. I find I can't sustain either over a long period, but that's fine (not that I would like getting a stomach ache every weekend lol).
So, for instance, I'd like to have a N-like day with balanced meals + one really good dessert or ice-cream. But most often I end up eating chocolate and/or cookies and skipping supper on Sunday because I feel queasy or merely not hungry. (Saturdays are often tamer).

[OrganicGal]

My S days are very similar to my N days, except that I do have dessert and some snacks. I don't fret about it, because I worked on the N days first and a natural roll-over happened onto the S days after a bit of time.
I didn't gain any weight when I first started No S, but many people do/have. I didn't lose any either! For me the difference after a while has been focusing on Habitcals, making sure my N days are near perfect consistantly, and EXERCISE!!!!

[jemima_potter]

thanks folks for ur replies and advice -
first of all i d like to add that everything i eat on a s-day is vegan - so no heavy cream, sugar, animal fat....is included!
i make it like a healthy all u can eat day - which is probably not what i m supposed to do either - since it s not all u can eat but enjoy, right?
i m gonna try shaping it all around the three main meals -

before no-s i used to eat at least 2 big big servings of everything i ate - snacking was always a taboo for me - i also didnt eat any sugar, animal fat, fast food etc. yet i gained weight - i guess because of the healthy, yet too large portions! no-s is a very easy to follow guideline - during meals my stomache is growling- but that shows the difference concerning the serving sizes - and that will lead to weight loss - i hope........

take care and thanks for ur messages!

jem

[rose]

Hhmmm...
perhaps we have different ideas of what healthy or balanced food is...
what I meant by "veggies" was actual fresh, unprocessed vegetables, containing mainly fibers, water and micronutrients. Oh, and fruit too.
From what you described in your S-day menu I understood you ate mainly processed proteins and carbs and fats. But then I am not a vegan so perhaps I misunderstood.

Also nuts are not exactly "healthy food" in itself for me, although of course eating some in moderation should be part of a balanced diet. Conversely sugar is not unhealthy in my book.

Anyway, No-S does not tell you _what_ to eat, so whatever works for you. It's just that it struck me when I read your post that it _looked_ like it lacked fresh produce.

[fkwan]

3 pancakes with fruit syrup and peanutbutter
3 handfull of cashew nuts (not roasted)
3 small rolls
2 biskuits
two big portions of fried pasta with some cheese topping
3 pieces of lemon cake
4 tortillas filled with either some soy cheese or peanut butter and honey
3 middle sized servings of rice
about 10 almonds
some fat free pringels
5 vegan cookies

Hi Jem,

I'm a vegan too, and I learned the hard way that just cuz you don't eat animals, you can eat ALL the wrong stuff!

All that stuff is TONS and TONS of calories and fat!

The first thing you need to do is buy a calorie book or go to www.calorieking.com or www.fitday.com and spend $30 or so on some calorie logging software.

For example, ONE HALF CUP of rice is 150 calories, so just the RICE, assuming middle-sized means about a cup each, is 900 calories!!!! That's about 3/4 of the average female allowed calories (1200).

Even a nice roll can ruin your calorie day if you're trying to lose weight. A four to five ounce roll, especially a homemade one, could be 400 or 500 calories by itself.

ONE flour tortilla is 150 calories.

A pancake by itself can be 180 calories. That's 180 calories for ONE pancake. No syrup, no honey, no jelly, no sugar.

Some of those vegan cookies, the real big muthahs, are 500 calories a whack. I know. I used to eat them.

You get the idea.

Unfortunately, in order to lose weight, you have to treat S days like N days with a LITTLE TINY TREAT, and sometimes that LITTLE TINY TREAT has to REPLACE A MEAL.

Most of the time you'll be eating fresh veggies, cooked veggies without heavy sauces, legumes, limited faux meat if you're into that, and limited tofu (soy is fattening) with limited starches, and limited fat (nuts are great, but VERY fattening).

I think once you start logging all your stuff you'll see that you're probably eating 3 times the amount you need to lose weight. Also, do you exercise? If you are an older person, it will be more difficult for you to lose weight. If you are younger, which I suspect you are, a lot of exercise will help.

f

[jemima_potter]

hey

thanks for ur advice - for clarification i would like to say that i do eat enough produce during all the other days - plus i only make sunday a s-day (dont feel comfortable about two).
also i would like to tell u that i have always eaten huge amounts of rice, potatoes, noodles, tofu before and never gained weight, but lost weight - it s just that i have gained about 10 pounds during the past weeks, and i would like to get rid of them again - plus, i think it s really about time for me to get rid of my messed up view of my portions......(heck, i used to eat 5 cups of rice just for lunch and lose weight)!
yes, i m still very young (18) - and i work out some (walks, situps, squats,...) , though not very much, about 4 times a week.

god bless,
ca

[kccc]

You'll find that people's S-days vary dramatically. And that's okay.

First rule: You CAN'T do them wrong. They may be excessive in the beginning, but over time they'll level out for most people. If you're not "most people," then there are steps you can take... but don't start off with them.

Don't worry about S-days until AFTER you have your 21 days of N-days in a row with no failures. Only THEN, turn your attention to S-day improvement. From what I've observed through a long time on this board, doing so earlier is almost a guarantee of long-term failure.

You may not lose weight at the beginning. You may even gain. It's okay. The first goal is developing habits, which is what N-day compliance is all about. The S-days are sort of a safety valve at that stage.

The general pattern is that, over time, S-days naturally get better. Your body gets used to the routine of regular meals.

With that said... as Rose observed, adding more fruits/veg to your diet would probably be a good idea if you're going for health. And as Fwan observed, the stuff you're eating now is pretty calorie-dense. But those are separate choices from No-S.

My S-days started off really wild... I don't think I could remember all I would eat to list it at the end of the day (and I wouldn't want to, lol!). Over time, the 3-meal habit took solid hold... and my meals got more healthy, b/c I need a good balanced meal to make it to the next one. Now, my S-days are "normal eating plus a treat or two." That was a slow evolution for me - some folks "got it" a lot faster. Blueskighs really nailed it from day 1 - her S-days involve a lovely trip to a local bakery that sounds delightful.

So, my biggest advice for S-days is to plan something you truly, truly ENJOY as a treat. Your S-days will look different from anyone else's, and that's okay.

Best wishes.

[Edited to add - we were cross-posting and I missed that you eat veggies other days when I posted above. So ignore that part. ]

[OrganicGal]

I have to agree with fkwan on the calories and fat and sugar in what you're eating. Also the amount of carbs is extremely high! If you are making all of that food from scratch, then that is fantastic and you can control the ingredients....if it it is ready made or from a mix then it is very processed and not so good. I suspect that 95% of that list is processed food.
Like fkwan says, you need more fresh fruits and veggies, and sources of protein...faux meats...like she mentions.
Remember that even if you are eating stuff with no added sugar, that carbs turn to sugar in the body...and your body may not be able to use it all and will store it as fat.

Just my humble opinion.

[Mavilu]

You say that what you are eating, even though it sounds like a lot it's half of what you used to have before, so, that's good, you are making progress, but, just in case

Another way to go at it is to define your S-day menu beforehand, make it like an N-day but with a very good treat planned in the afternoon. Then try to follow your plan but don't worry if you end up eating somewhat more than planned. It's an S-day after all.

I adhere to this and it works wonderfully.
For example, this last sunday I had planned to have a Coke (it sounds like very little, but after a while, the novelty of S days kinda runs off and you get moderate in your choices) but when I made dinner, I cooked a very daring pasta dish with cauliflower, tomato sauce and sardines, well, my husband "liked it" but I loved it, when we both finished our plates, there still were about one third of a portion left on the pot and my husband wasn't ever going to eat seconds of it, so I went ahead and finished it.
So, this last S day: a Coke and seconds = a moderate S day
If I wouldn't have planned it, it would have been a million little things plus seconds, all too much food and definetely a excessive S day.

Remember that in the long run, you want your S days to be about indulging without upseting the whole week's balance.

[jemima_potter]

hey

for me it s basically (yes, sadly) either a total binge or a total restriction - i cant go moderately like u described it ....
also from what i ve read in this forum there are many ppl here that are having whole pizzas, cake, cookies, chocolate etc. - all of these regular - while i m even cutting out all sugars and animal fats!
during the week i never even touch carbs for dinner......so i take very good care of how i eat
i just sometimes need a total binge - .....
on top of that i ve heard from a nutrionist that it is impossible for anyone, no matter how much is consumed to gain more body fat than 1 pound in a day
what is ur opinion on that?
by the way - during the week i hardly eat any of those processed foods, rather tofu, ww bread, oatmeal, etc.

god bless

jem

[fkwan]

also from what i ve read in this forum there are many ppl here that are having whole pizzas, cake, cookies, chocolate etc. - all of these regular - while i m even cutting out all sugars and animal fats!

I'm not a nutritionist, just an experienced vegan dieter, but I don't think crappy metabolism cares WHAT the pizza, cake, cookies, etc. are made of, a calorie is a calorie. One of the most wonderful foods in the world, açai powder, is almost all fat! Organic pure chunky salted peanut butter is the yummiest, but again, fat and calorie-dense, although a great protein source. If you're gaining weight, your metabolism is out of whack, especially if you never had a weight problem before.

Also, as mentioned here before, sugar (turbinado, Sucanat, etc. are not innocents) is addictive. The more you eat, the more you crave. The small print here is that most females who want to lose weight will have to restrict sweets and calorie-dense starches like bread and pasta a LOT to lose weight. But afterward, if you just have them two days a week, you will be able to eat French lady sized amounts without guilt thereafter (or so I hope ). And fats are OK in moderation, so it's not absolutely crazy like my beloved McDougall. There's more wiggle room.

Hypothyroidism can cause weight gain. It never hurts to have it checked.

Guys also have much more efficient metabolisms than girls. This system was created by a guy. Grrl mileage varies.


f

[deadweight]

hey

for me it s basically (yes, sadly) either a total binge or a total restriction - i cant go moderately like u described it ....
.
on top of that i ve heard from a nutrionist that it is impossible for anyone, no matter how much is consumed to gain more body fat than 1 pound in a day
what is ur opinion on that?

Your nutritionist is wrong. Plenty of people go on 6,000; 8,000; 10,000 calorie binges or more. If their body burns 2,000 calories per day then those excess calories will eventually be turned into 2 or more pounds of fat.

The idea of the total binge or total restriction is going to be your downfall. If you don't learn moderation you're going to struggle big time. It sounds like you're not even giving yourself the opportunity to practice moderation.

If I were you I would add back Saturdays as an S-day and then just chill out a bit. I think with that extra S-day you wouldn't flip out because you would know you have two full days to practice eating anything you want in moderation.

[jemima_potter]

well i personally dont think that calorie is calorie: i am convinced that ur body doesnt handle 3 cookies and 5 apples (lets say both had the same amount of calories) the same way!!! it depends more on what u eat than how much u eat - that is just what i ve experienced so far......i also used to eat extremely large amounts of apples, oranges, etc. and never gained weight from that!
i m gonna think about that with the 2 sdays - maybe that would work better for me to keep control......
how much peanutbutter for example would u eat on a sday if that was ur treat - or how many pieces of bread?
thanks
jem

[irish]

I really don't think you should count calories, especially not on s days. Yes, you will probably eat too much your first few weeks on No S, but it will taper off. But if, on an S day, you think about every calorie you're putting in your mouth, you're defeating the purpose of No S dieting. No S teaches you how to eat and enjoy food. If you have perfect No S days, you will lose weight, albeit slowly, especially if you eat a lot on S days. But it will work. Please stick with it.

[jemima_potter]

i can stick with it during the week -
i just really dont know if i can keep doing this diet if i cant binge on sundays....................................goodness...lol
i m so afraid i will gain weight though-
i know..............silly problems in ur eyes probably ......

thank u so much for ur help!!!

[funfuture]

I agree with Irish. For me, the point of NoS has been that it allows me to enjoy my food without counting calories, etc. Just watching my portions by sticking to the one plate rule. I too occasionally have excessive S days, but I'm still losing weight. The point, I think, is not to worry so much about calories but about establishing new habits. While you don't want to set up a habit of bingeing on weekends, I do think (and am experiencing) that getting the NS days down pat does flow over to the weekends over time. And as KCCC mentioned, getting the NS days right does inevitably mean eating healthy meals on those days to get you through the day.
Just my two bobs worth.

[BrightAngel]

i just really dont know if i can keep doing this diet if i cant binge on sundays.
i m so afraid i will gain weight though.

Sorry,
I know from my own personal experience,
as well as much research on the subject,
over time,
A "Binge" once a week will cause a weight gain.

This is definitely true if one eats "normally" for the other 5 or 6 days,
AND if the "Binge" is really high calorie,
This is true even if one eats very low-calorie for the other 5 or 6 days.

In order NOT to gain weight, one's weekly calorie average
MUST be no more than the calories one burns in a week's time.
i.e. your daily BMR plus activity factor multiplied by 7.

Whether or not anyone wants to count calories,
they always matter.
The No S diet...if done properly... is just a way to reduce and limit calories without actually counting them.

[navi]

i agree, if you eat 7000 calories extra one day you most likely will NOT gain 2 pounds in that day. Although we all know the "calorie in, calorie out" mantra, we are biological organisms, and are NOT 100% efficent. If you eat that much excess in a short period, some of it is bound to "come out the other end" so to speak, as the body will not be able to process it all. Our bodies are fantastically complex systems, and metabolism differs from day to day and throughout the day based on hormones, activity, and a whole host of other things. This is why I think calorie counting can give you a ball-park estimate, but it is not an exact science. I also think that your body gets used to a certain calorie load, and if you restrict too much your body reacts by becoming more efficient with the energy it gets from food - thus thwarting your weight loss efforts. Best to only eat a bit less (moderation!) than you are used too and add exercise, you want to encourage your body to be as inefficent as possible with its fuel! I think if you are stuck in "I can eat only 1000 calories a day" mode you may be able to gradually increase intake without gaining weight, and get off the super low calorie grind. I have read that having a "refeeding day" with higher calorie load once a week can "reset" your metabolism so that it does not slow down too much when dieting. Perhaps S days fulfill this role of "resetting" the metabolism.....

[kccc]

hey

for me it s basically (yes, sadly) either a total binge or a total restriction - i cant go moderately like u described it ....

Jem, my (very wise) husband would call that "telling yourself a bad story."

Even if it has been true for you in the past, the future may be different. It may hold moderation. It's okay if it takes a while - it took me a LONG time to "get it," but the N days carried me through. (A good change - like turning a corner, and seeing a whole different world.)

Language matters. Try "I am learning moderation... " or even "moderation is a new goal for me." Not "I can't... it's all or nothing." Don't tell yourself that, or you will make it true. The emotional part of your mind will believe what you tell it over and over.

A story that I like: you currently have bad habits that you are replacing with better ones, one gradual step at a time.

(And focus on those N-days first, okay? )

[deadweight]

well i personally dont think that calorie is calorie: i am convinced that ur body doesnt handle 3 cookies and 5 apples (lets say both had the same amount of calories) the same way!!!
jem

Well, the great thing about science is that it doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Your body doesn't process apples and cookies exactly the same way, but the net weight gain for the same amount (calorie-wise) of each would be the same.

[la_loser]

Jem,
I certainly appreciate and understand your feeling as if you have to go to extremes on N days as well as S days. Believe me, I’ve tried every diet known to man (and woman!) and have spend bundles trying to find success, none of which gave me the weight loss, particularly long range, or control of my own nutrition that I had hoped for. I would find myself always looking for loopholes; with this diet, reasonable loopholes are built in!

It took me over a month of reading the initial article and the website to begin to internalize the simplicity of this diet and to discover that I COULD do this. So be patient and take a breath and remember to consider those 14 little words that Reinhard uses to explain the diet. These are direct quotes from this site in his words:

“There are just three rules and one exception:
• No Snacks
• No Sweets
• No Seconds
Except (sometimes) on days that start with ‘S’ "

In later explanation of those fourteen words, he answers this question. . . What do you mean by "sometimes"?

“I stuck the word "sometimes" in the exception to remind you not to be an idiot on S-days. It's been my experience that the good habits you build on the non-S-days will see you through the S-days without too much excess. My S-days tend to be no worse than my pre-No S Diet ordinary days.
(relatively) New! "Don't be an idiot" insufficiently specific for you? Read this discussion for a little more guidance: http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=759

Note: readers of the No S Diet book may have noticed that the word "sometimes" didn't make it to the print version. The reason for this was mostly typographical (the 14 word version with "sometimes" just didn't fit as well on the cover). And while some people can using the extra reminder, "sometimes" isn't really logically necessary -- OF COURSE you shouldn't eat snacks, sweets and seconds ALL THE TIME on S-days. I've kept the "sometimes" on the web site so pre-book No S dieters don't feel like I've changed the system out from under them, and as far as I'm concerned, both the 13 and 14 word formulations of the system are equally valid and "canonical" (more on this issue here).â€
(note from laloser—see the original info on nosdiet.com for these links.)

This past weekend, I had a couple of great S days-particularly on Saturday-but I never felt out of control and I know I didn’t eat like I would have pre-No S diet. As I prepared the appetizers for a dinner party we were attending that night, I did plenty of “sampling†along the way. Then at the dinner I had generous portions of the brisket and pork tenderloin as well as the delicious side dishes. It did all fit on one big plate but wasn’t stacked! The finale was a mouthwatering key lime pie that my husband made for the occasion. I had a good sized slice of it—like everyone else did—and it didn’t even occur to me to want more. I was just grateful it was SATURDAY! I can promise you that in every other diet plan I’ve tried, I would have been trying to rationalize reasons to eat even more. I was satisfied, knowing I’d had the equivalent of seconds (large full plate), I’d had snacks-appetizers (both while preparing them and at the party) and I got to have dessert.

So what I did what was remember the SOMETIMES in the guidelines. It may be tougher to do in the first few weeks, but give it your best. Maybe you could start out on your S days limiting your extreme S behavior to only two of the S’s then by the next weekend or so, go to your extreme in only one of them, etc. (i.e. this weekend, you could have SOME snacks but SEVERAL seconds and SEVERAL sweets-then the following weekend, work toward SOME snacks and SOME seconds but SEVERAL sweets—maybe by the third weekend, you could manage SOME of each. It would be like weaning yourself from the bingeing behavior.)

I suspect if you spend so much effort trying to calculate just how many calories or what types of calories they are, you are overthinking it and are bound to circumvent the "spirit" of the "rules." The beauty of this system if it is to work for you is its simplicity.

Bottom line—like I tell myself all the time: Remember that little engine. . . I think I can, I think I can. . . . because if I don’t think I can or if you don’t think you can, it’s not going to work. The good news, there seem to be over 2000 participants in these discussion pages, including Reinhard, who will encourage you to keep taking it one day at a time.
Good luck!

[blueskighs]

I really don't think you should count calories, especially not on s days.

"counting calores" is not the NO S Diet although there are people on the boards who emphatically do, I personally am not one of them.

NO S Diet is about eating three one plate meals on N days and then ENJOYING yourself on S days.

Reinhard suggests getting all greens on your habitcal before you get too hung up on your S days,
I would forget getting a calorie counter and get the NO S diet book, and listen to the podcast on S days gone wild.

Part of NO S is allowing you to reconnect your "eyes" and your "body" and your "food" you don't need to count calories to do this.

I went out to eat a few weeks ago and had risotto for dinner. I ate about half. I did not need a calorie book to tell me I had eaten too much the next moring, I was full. Being full the next morning means I ate too much. I should probably have eaten about 1/4 of the risotto. Next time I'll know.

One of the benefits of No S is ENJOYING whatever food you eat, let that be your guide,

Blueskighs

[Betty]

Jemima,

My s days are all over the place. Sometimes they look a lot like N days, but more often they are a kind of release valve: I revert to permasnacking and sugar nibbling.

I agree with a lot of the posts here. Get your N days down. Make them as healthy and as moderate as you can. Don't focus on losing weight so much as building habit N day in and N day out. I know that most of our goals on this board is ultimately to get to our body's ideal weight, but this is a long term process (read: years and years) so, for me, weight is a secondary issue right now. I just want to be healthy about food, Lord, do I want to be healthy around food, and I trust that with good N day habits I will become healthy in time on the S days too. This is taking a while for me, but I still have faith. You know?

Let yourself go on the weekends and see how that feels. Gently experiment with snacking occasionally but not binging. See how that feels. Buy yourself or make yourself that one (or two) really super special treats that delight your taste buds, and savor them. Enjoy them. Permit them. And see how that feels.

Sports metaphor alert: This is not just a marathon, it's an iron man race, and its just as tough and as hard core. But you are alowed to train for that race and be gentle with yourself while you train. After all, you don't want to push yourself beyond your limits and get an injury that will cause you to drop out. The N days are your practices, and sometimes your coach has to push you hard to succeed. Your S days are your rest days, and while super atheletes still train gently on the weekends, in the beginning your body, mind and soul still do need the rest.

So you binge on S days. So what? LET yourself binge right now, and I guarantee that in time (and this time might be months and months away) you will find that feeling stronger and healthier on N days pushes you in the direction of being healthier on S days too.

Sorry for going on and on, but this is the kind of thing I keep telling myself every day. Im a binger too. But it's getting better. So there's hope.
Someday we'll be chatting on this board and spreading our wisdom to the newbies who wonder how the heck they can be sane on S days too.

Betty

[breakky]

Just correcting an error I saw before. 1200 calories is certainly not the average female allowance of calories! That's the MINIMUM female allowance calories.