limiting failure

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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dhs
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limiting failure

Post by dhs » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:29 am

Wouldn't it be better to have different grades of failure rather than just one? For example, with just the possibilities of success (green) or failure (red), once I know I have failed for the day (i.e. had a snack), what keeps me from going ahead and eating whatever else I want that day? The day will be red whether I do or don't.

esdaly
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Changing old behaviors.

Post by esdaly » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:59 am

For me, I try to remind myself that it is not so much about success or failure as it is changing the bad habits I have developed especially bingeing. I try to remind myself that I am making progress if I have a day where though I may have technically failed I did not revert to bad behaviors.

trytrytry
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Post by trytrytry » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:09 am

Hi, I had the same problem and now I follow someone's advice (I think Betty's) to set up a 'no Binge' HabitCal.
Any S day or a red day, gets a "noBinge" green if I was reasonable (ie had a small slip up or didn't go on a binge) or a red if things went out of control.

I think the idea behind the three colors only is to keep it as simple as possible and encourage strictness. To quote from Reinhard:

It keeps getting easier, and the stricter you are, the faster it goes. It's just like training a dog. Be loving but FIRM.

kccc
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Post by kccc » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:23 pm

I had the same issue - it was easy to fall into "well, I've blown it anyway, SO..." thinking.

One thing that helped was to pair the habitcal with a daily check-in thread. Then I could say "it was three bites before dinner" as opposed to "I ate non-stop from 6 until bedtime." Somehow, being able to explain helped a lot. (BTW, I think it's a BIG success to stop an incipient binge!)

I also like the no-binge habitcal idea. Another one I've seen people discuss is to keep separate habitcals for each habit. Then you can tell if you just had a snack, or if you "broke" all the guidelines.

Hope you find some ideas that work for you. :)

blueskighs
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Post by blueskighs » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:50 pm

The day will be red whether I do or don't.
dhs

maybe this just comes down to the bottom line is that you are keeping your HABITCAL for you and not anyone else.

I don't look at red so much as failure as much as RED ALERT I have STOPPED BUILDING HABIT.

In the end, this may also be why strictness helps, it doesn't get you into this mindset.

For myself I have been STRICT with N Days and would rather deal with the WHATEVER of not eating the snack, sweet or second, than try to deal with the thought process that you are describing. What helps a lot with this is really looking forward to my S days. I know I can have WHATEVER with zero guilt!

as trytrytry quoted Reinhard:
It keeps getting easier, and the stricter you are, the faster it goes. It's just like training a dog. Be loving but FIRM.
Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

CrazyCatLady
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Post by CrazyCatLady » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:47 pm

When I started a habitcal, I had major slip-ups that caused the red days. Then I read here about how one slip can just be one slip. And since then, all my red days are from one slip. So even though the day is marked red, I feel successful in that it was only one small thing, so more of a learning experience than a "failure".

AND....since that change in my thinking, I have gotten more and more green days. In fact...I am up to 5 successful weeks on habit! And I know that my prior two red days were minor! Just give the habitcal a try!

navi
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Post by navi » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:21 pm

dhs, I am with you! if i have a minor failure i put it on the habitcal as a yellow - a major & it is a red. i know this is not "by the book" but it keeps me from escalating the slip into a binge. I much prefer to see all greens, so it is still a deterrent. having come from an extremely authoritarian background, i really can't deal with the super strict approach anymore - even if it is coming from myself - i have to go the "gentler way". I know reinhard talks about the "fence around the law" or something like that, but that philosophy does not work with me - just makes me rebellious. once someone tells me what to do (or what i can & can't do), my first instinct is to do the opposite. you just have to find what works for you.......

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la_loser
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My new HabitCals--keeping me honest with a clear picture

Post by la_loser » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:25 pm

I guess we all have a little of that "rebel" in us. . . like when someone used to say, "are you sure you should eat that. . ." I just wanted it even more!

My need has been to keep myself honest with my HabitCal yet wanting to have a clearer record of what I'm really doing. I have a solution that seems to be working for me. First of all, I should clarify that my issues with food have not been "bingeing" as such-like I don't think I've ever sat down with an entire carton of ice cream or eaten a giant bag of chips at one sitting. . . but I do have issues with portion size and unconscious eating/tasting while cooking/finding a "reason" to eat a little more.

I do want to have an honest record of my No S journey. Rather than do it on the daily check-ins. . .takes too long-I get so wordy (obviously!) and I don't have time to do that all the time! So I have made additional HabitCals. . . I created:

Strictly_Speaking_No_S
--as per Reinhard's Fence Around the Law line of thought (I went back and copied my original NoSDiet Habitcal and deleted the original)

Not_an_Idiot_S_Day: Reserved for S days whether it's weekends of NWS days. . . to be able to track my habit of not going crazy on those days!

GREEN_Equals_Two_R_Less_S_Slips: My way of keeping track of little slips (ok-failures!) of the strictness of the diet--but so I can note whether this was a biggie or just one extra helping of one item and one healthy type snack, perhaps. . . I give myself a RED if my slip-ups were more massive!

At least by doing it by HabitCal, it's quick to record and a great visual version of my progress. And it tells a more complete story.

And ahhhh, last night when our friend served us homemade apple pie made from her apple trees with homemade ice cream made with 100% cream, I had no guilt eating it--then my granddaughter decided to eat a little of mine; I was totally satisfied by that time anyway and didn't feel the need to reload my plate--thereby making myself "not an idiot!" The old me would have reasoned that I didn't get a full serving so I'd better make sure I wasn't missing anything!

Now--to determine a menu for this week to keep me honest!

angelka71
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Post by angelka71 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:14 am

laloser...GREAT idea!! I may have to borrow it myself. Thanks!

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reinhard
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Post by reinhard » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:14 pm

The idea of including support in the habitcal for "levels of failure" has been kicking around for a while.... technically, it would be dead easy to do, but I'm still not convinced it's a good idea, and would rather not add complexity unless I really think it's worth it.

What I find is a helpful way of keeping mere slip ups from becoming routes is to resolve simply to describe them in a check in thread. I keep my habitcal quantification nice and simple and clear and strict, and qualify all failures or funny stuff in my check in thread. It's a kind of "negative tracking" that I podcasted about a while ago. It's effective, I find, because it rewards good behavior with less work (no details required) and discourages bad behavior with more work (fessing up isn't just embarrassing but takes time). It gives you incentive to keep failures limited because you don't want your entries to become too tragic (or long).

Although this technique of "qualifying failures and funny stuff" doesn't require any additional technology beyond the bulletin board, it would be easier if it were better integrated with the habitcal. So I am (very slowly) working on a way to do that.

My apologies for being so slow with habitcal improvements -- my top priority has been to keep this tool, which seems to be very useful to many people as is, stable and running. And taking my time is a great filter.... I feel like I've now narrowed in on the few changes that will really make it much more useful without detracting from it's current, appealing simplicity. More details soon...

Reinhard

P.S. devotees of the habitcal as is shouldn't be alarmed at these coming changes -- my plan is to keep the existing version at the same url essentially unaltered. Your bookmarks and links will continue to work, and you'll be able to use the original user interface indefinitely if you prefer it to the new. I'm going to plop the new habitcal in a version 2 subdirectory.

cvmom
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Post by cvmom » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:53 pm

I find that if I start to get too "grey" about how things go with my eating, that I can rationalize any and every little thing.

"just a bite"

"hardly any calories in a sip of chocolate milkshake"

"an energy drink really isn't a sweet"

"my pasta serving was kinda small"

"I have a protein headach and a piece of cheese won't count"

And...the all time "What the heck, it's someone's birthday somewhere!"

My brain can rationalize and explain away anything, which is why I need to stick to the rules to actually see progress.

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la_loser
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Strictness is still my goal

Post by la_loser » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:09 pm

Regarding my creating the extra HabitCals and others' concern that it muddies the waters.
I totally agree that the strictness of the plan is what counts. The reason I added the extra HabitCals was so that I could keep track of HOW I was messing up/trends of failure or slips so that I could view it visually more easily. My goal is still absolutely to do vanilla No-S. Maybe my comments implied that I was trying to justify various setbacks.

I know many of you do the daily check-in but my solution is to be able to look at the image of my HabitCals. . . it can help me see how close I am to total habit changes--and give me the impetus to know I can make it! I know I might not take the time, especially when the school year begins, to enter a daily check-in type entry-but I think I will find the time to keep myself accountable through the HabitCals.

And as many of you have pointed out-everyone has to find what process works for you and I hope this will work for me--So I don't want to imply that I'm making excuses or trying to do "No S sorta kinda. . ." I'm in it for real-for the long haul.

And so far today. . . NO S or S or S! PERIOD!

cvmom
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Post by cvmom » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:49 pm

Hi LA

I didn't perceive your post as an indication of bending the rules. I think we are all just trying to figure this out.

Isn't it strange that we all have to learn to eat in a way that most people, 100 years ago, ate naturally?

Being a chroic dieter for all of my adult life I have to watch myself carefully. I am prone to self-deception! UGH

I guess we all just need to find our way through this. One Green Day at at time!!! :D

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la_loser
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Key Lime Pie Oh My!

Post by la_loser » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:15 pm

CVMOM, I hear ya. . . I've done quite well today and it's already mid-afternoon. Now I'm making a careful plan to maneuver my evening. We're having two couples over for dinner. I'll be fine with a small grilled burger with probably half a bun or maybe no bun and the salad-y type trimmings. The beans won't be a problem. The dilemma on a MONDAY! is that my creative spouse made two beautiful Key Lime Pies for dessert. Argh. That's gonna be tough. And it won't work to say I'll save it for the weekend since that's five days away and we'll be out of town by then anyway!

I may just have have a tiny tiny tiny taste; call it RED and move on. However, my plan as I write is to have none of it and call it a serious Habit-Building exercise!

In my pre-No S days, I wouldn't even have given this a second thought. . .baby steps!

LA Loser

CrazyCatLady
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Post by CrazyCatLady » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:42 pm

Good luck on passing up the Key Lime Pie. Sometimes I just try not to worry about occasions like that too much. I remind myself that I can have the pie if I want, but why not wait until after dinner, and see if I'm actually hungry for it. Then after dinner...well, just a few more hours and today will be a green...maybe tomorrow. In a way, I think it is bad to even entertain the idea of slipping, but on the other hand, certain situations are just so tempting! Sometimes by putting off the decision, it is easier to say "no thanks" to myself later.

Will your hubby make another pie for you on another weekend? That helps me pass up on treats, too. Not saying that I will never have this treat again, just that it will be sometime later, even if that means I need to cook it again, or go buy more.

Love how everyone can fit vanilla No S to fit their needs!

kccc
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Post by kccc » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:42 pm

LALoser, I thought your additional habitcals were really creative!

They didn't read like rationalizations at all - more like good incentives to not let small slip-ups become big ones. I think they've very smart.

It is wonderful to see the different strategies other people use - I learn so much from hanging around this place!

cvmom
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Post by cvmom » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:11 am

UH...Key Lime Pie - on a MONDAY.

Definitely would take some serious flexing of Habit Muscles not to dive into that!

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Post by clio » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:08 am

Can you freeze it?
SW: 154

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reinhard
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Post by reinhard » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:26 pm

laloser,

Just to clarify: I think YOUR extra habitcals are a great idea. My reservations were about building in a "levels of failure" mechanism (like, different hues of red) into the habitcal.

Reinhard

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la_loser
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Thanks

Post by la_loser » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:48 pm

Reinhard,

Thanks for the validation. It seems to be working for me so far. . . and about that Key Lime Pie. . . I made the executive decision to make yesterday an Special day--but the only slip was a sliver of that pie. As I look at the calendar, it should be my only NWS day except July 4 for the month so I don't feel too bad about it.

I think my clarifications that I posted for mostly to remind myself why I did them and that I hadn't done them for the wrong reason!

I appreciate the support-from you and all the others!

LA Loser

Betty
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Post by Betty » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm

I use the NoBinge habitcal because, like you, if I feel that I've failed I just pack it in and really let go. Sometimes you just choose to eat ice cream with the kids (as in a recent post) or eat a treat that you'd never have otherwise (Armenian friend brought over her grandmother's speaialty.

What I've found is that, for me, the No Binge habit cal does not give me a licence to "cheat" because getting back on track after a slip up is infinitely harder than staying on track in the first place. If you look through my habit cal you would actually see mostly red for the no binge habit cal, as this is a huge problem for me. So when I put green there it really does feel like a real victory.

betty

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