I wish...

[Betty]

I wish no-s wasn't so darn hard. Sometimes I read these rosy posts (Josh's last blog entry, for example) where someone has really taken to no-s and had amazing results both in the habit-creating way and in terms of weight reduction, and I feel so frustrated.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a no-s lifer. I can't imagine any other "diet" plan. No-S is great! I've never felt so relaxed about eating and I've quite possibly never eaten so well.

And I *have* made progress. I actually have a feeling of satisfaction when I've finished the last bite on my plate and I cheerfully resist having 'a litte something more" And I don't eat nearly the quantity of sugar I used to, even (usually) on S days.

But still (pause while I check my habit cal and get out my calculator) In the past 4 months I've averaged .6666 failures a week ranging from little slip ups to major blow-outs. And the days when I don't fail I always feel close to failing. I'm still piling my plate high. It is a constant, constant struggle to stay on habit.

And, let's be honest: Patience is one of my virtues, but vanity is alive and well in me. I do wish I could lose those last 15-20 lbs. In the past 4 months I've lost 2 lbs, maybe.

Darnit, I want to join the "my pants just fell down" club. Please, please, can I become a member?

Sigh, Betty.

[reinhard]

Betty,

I'm sorry to hear you're still finding it so difficult -- though I'm hugely impressed at your compliance despite those difficulties.

I'm not going to tell you to just "be patient" and wait, because clearly you are and have been patient. And it's easy to be patient when the pounds are flying off, or you're no longer really tempted to break the rules.

First, one question: where are you getting that 15-20 pounds number from? Is this a weight you were ever at as an adult?

Assuming this target weight has some basis in reality, here are a few "tweaks" I might suggest:

1) keep tweaking as small and specific as possible. Try no more than one tweak per month.

2) are you getting any regular exercise/exertion? Before piling on extra-diet rules, this is the first place to start. Two moderate efforts are better than one extreme effort -- plus exercise is a good idea in any case, no matter what your weight is.

3) I think additional diet tweaks are going to be very risky, because you're already finding the rules constraining -- more rules will only make you feel more constrained. So if you're going to do something in this department, I'd start with something positive: instead of restricting plate size, or S-days, or something else, add more healthy, bulky relatively un-caloric fruit to your plates to crowd our denser stuff. Formalize this if you think it would help: maybe "at least one piece of fresh fruit goes on every plate." Your plates will still LOOK very big. And all that bulk doesn't just look, it FEELS: it takes up room not just on the plate but in your stomach.

Hope something here or elsewhere in this thread helps...

Reinhard

[Blithe Morning]

And I *have* made progress. I actually have a feeling of satisfaction when I've finished the last bite on my plate and I cheerfully resist having 'a litte something more" And I don't eat nearly the quantity of sugar I used to, even (usually) on S days.

I think that's pretty significant and beyond the capabilities of many people. You sound sane, which most people aren't.

I'm confused about your .6666 failures a week. That's less than once a week. How did you come up with that number? Maybe you need a short break from Habitcal?

Reinhard has some good advice. I especially agree with the exercise. Are you doing shovelglove or other resistance training? My fitness instructor (fitness classes were a habit before I started No S) says cardio is for your heart and lungs, and weights are for the rest of your body.

I double dog agree with re-thinking whether or not the 15 lbs is really necessary. If you are eating well, exercising and are generally in good health, then your weight will be what it will be, regardless of what is deemed acceptable by mainstream media. At some point, it becomes easier to change your mind than your body.

[kccc]

I'm just going to chime in with what has become my on-board mantra: Be gentle with yourself.

Reading your post, there's SO MUCH PROGRESS. Eating better. Staying on habit with less than one slip per week. Feelings of accomplishment.

Give yourself credit.

And be gentle. I was having trouble b/c my S-days were over the top. Making them MORE pleasant was what finally helped - planning ahead to have meals I liked and defined treats that were extra-special. I didn't want to spoil my appetite with junk when I had something really good to look forward to. (Beating myself up for being an idiot did NOT help. I tried that first.)

So whatever you do, do NOT make yourself feel more constricted. Keep the tweaks positive - add good habits instead of trying to hem yourself in more. Eat more fruits/veg, exercise, make meals special with flowers/candles/music, whatever sounds like something you'd actually enjoy.

Very best wishes.

[Betty]

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. It's nice to hear people say not to make things harder for myself, as I tend to get down on myself.

I do a fair bit of exercise (75 minutes of biking each work day as a commute. Shovel glove monday wednesday and fridays (more and my tendons start to complain).

I also eat a lot of fruits and veggies.

It's really that I eat a lot at meals, I think. I love good food! And tend to permasnack on S days. Maybe the permasnacking is the reason why the habit is taking so long to take hold... but I do feel that restricting myself on S days WILL, in my case, lead to more failures on N days.

[Blithe Morning]

I like good food too!

How do you normally spend your S days (rhetorical question, no need to answer here). Maybe you need something more interesting or challenging on your S days so that you are engaged with something else besides snacking. I find when I am bored and stressed, I am an idiot on S days.

[Betty]

I've been thinking about whether "the last 15-20 lbs" is or isn't a realistic number. When I was in my 20s and was not thinking about what I ate, I weighed about 122 lbs every time I looked. So, to me, that seems like an obvious goal: the weight I was before I started this binge/diet/binge rollercoaster in earnest.

But, given that I'm now in my 40s, with three kids, maybe that is unrealistic.

I started to gain weight when my life became stressful, that's for sure. And the weight I'd really like to lose is the 10 lbs I packed on last year when I got really, seriously burned out at work, had a little bit of a melt-down and (didn't eat a whole lot more than usual but) spent every free moment in bed. Ouch.

I do feel that I could do much better with N day complience. I'll go two to three weeks with all greens on my habit cal and then I'll have a week where (things get stressful and) I will have a couple of reds. Typically a minor slip-up one day and followed by a major slip up the next day.

As I write, I think maybe my first tweek will be to try not to let minor slip ups turn into major ones. All "No-Binge Failures," which is a tag on my habit cal that records minor slip ups that I am able to contain.

Thanks for all the support, guys.

Betty

[Blithe Morning]

It sounds like your goals, (stopping with minor lapses, losing the stress weight) are very reasonable and doable.

Btw, as a woman in my 40's, I lost a bunch o' weight about two years ago. The problem was, I began to look haggard and old. Super thin does not look good on us unless we can affort to tighten and lift all the saggy bits (sorry if that's TMI).

[jessdr]

I am brand new to No S, but I can suggest a not-really-a-tweak that might help with overeating at meals. Your mileage may vary, but I find that I eat a lot less if I:

- get the best quality food I can afford/find
(ex: real mashed potatoes vs. instant)

- choose foods that sound delicious to me at the moment
(i.e., not things that I don't love or am not in the mood for)

- eat very slowly and pay careful attention to the taste, smell, etc.

- stop eating when I know that wouldn't make me any happier


In short, it's about switching focus from consuming food to tasting food. Both feel good, but when I focus on tasting it, it doesn't take as much to make me happy as when I shovel it down. And it doesn't feel like a restriction, since:

- I'm focusing on something I enjoy (the flavor of tasty food)

- I *can* eat a larger amount anytime I want to; I'm just being honest with myself about whether I really want more or if I'm just used to more

[winnie96]

I find that I eat a lot less if I ...

- stop eating when I know that wouldn't make me any happier

Thanks, jessdr. what a great line! This is what I love about these boards. I keep bumping into phrases that just hit home for me.

I used to equate eating more with making me happier. (Of course, the reverse is true). So, for that component of eating motivation, I'm going to focus on eating just enough, and no more.

The whole post was great -- thanks for sharing.

[gratefuldeb67]

Hi Betty, I wanted to also mention that muscle weighs three times as much as fat. If you are shovelgloving for three days a week, and biking everyday, you may really be replacing fat with muscle, which is great, but which will throw off the scale numbers big time. Try measuring yourself for encouragement perhaps??
Peace and Love
Debs

[Betty]

Good Tip, Jessdr. I noticed in the summer when I had time to make exactly what I loved and wanted at the moment, No S was so much easier. Now that I'm at work and rushing all over the place, I tend to make what's fastest, and eat with a whole lot less enjoyment.

Need to think about that.

Deb, good point. I sometimes think throwing out the scale would make me a much happier person. Maybe a bonfire in the back yard...

Betty

[daahling]

Hi Betty! Allow me to share a tip I came up with in order to make sure I don't have seconds...... I simply don't cook that much to start off with. Let's say I'm planning to have a plate of pasta for dinner. If I'm dining alone, I weigh out exactly two portions (approx. 80g of raw pasta weight each portion); then after I've cooked the pasta and mixed in the sauce, I divide it in half and put one half away in a Tupperware container to take to work with me the next day, and that's tomorrow's lunch taken care of. What's left is my dinner and there simply are no leftovers to reach for afterwards. If I am tempted to nibble from the other portion, I stop myself straight away because I know that more at dinner now, means less for lunch tomorrow and for me there's nothing worse than being hungry at the office!

[jessdr]

Good Tip, Jessdr. I noticed in the summer when I had time to make exactly what I loved and wanted at the moment, No S was so much easier. Now that I'm at work and rushing all over the place, I tend to make what's fastest, and eat with a whole lot less enjoyment.

Finding time is always the tough part. I belly dance professionally and have a full-time day job, so I'm out until 9:30 two nights a week, sometimes three or four. I love to cook, so I tend not to lame out of it, but I can't always spend as much time on it as I'd like.


It really helps to consolidate as much of the prep work as possible:

Every three or four weeks, I'll buy a bag of onions, chop 1/3 of the bag, slice 1/3 of the bag, and freeze them. When I'm not cooking in a rush, I'll use the remaining, fresh onions. When I am in a hurry, I'll use the frozen ones; there's very little loss in quality. It's actually a lot faster to chop a six onions at once than to chop one onion six times (not to mention the time you save cleaning the knife and cutting board).

I do the same with fresh herbs, roasted garlic cloves (if I make garlic roasted chicken, I'll throw in another 2 or 3 heads), bell peppers, carrots, and chopped, uncooked bacon. Rumor has it, you can even freeze wine in ice cube trays (not in the bottle - it could explode!) and keep them in ziplock bags until you need some for cooking, but I haven't tried that yet.

I also try to keep at least one quick-thawing protein in the freezer. Shrimp is pricey, but thaws really quickly, so I buy a big bag when it goes on sale. Bacon also freezes really well, and you don't even have to thaw it before you cook. I joined a meat co-op a few months ago, so I don't buy much at the supermarket anymore, but when I did, I used to buy the cheap family packs of chicken breasts, cook them all, and store the cooked shreds and slices in the freezer, or buy a whole boneless lamb leg, cut it into steaks, and freeze them in individual ziplocks.

Whenever I make something labor-intensive and large-batch-prone like soups, pasta, cranberry sauce, etc., I'll make a big batch and freeze the extras. Last month, I made ricotta gnocchi (which were YUMMY, and stick with me much longer than the potato kind), and put 3/4 of the batch in the freezer. When I want gnocchi, I shake some out of the bag and microwave them. I made a sauce to go with it, but I froze it separately (as single servings in those little snack-sized tupperwares) so I can use the gnocchi in different dishes.

I'm not big on whole pre-frozen meals, but when I have the ingredients frozen individually, plus a couple of long-keeping staples in the fridge (eggs, cream or milk, parmesan cheese), and a couple in the pantry (canned tomatoes, pasta, etc.), I can whip up something yummy from scratch less than 15 minutes. Which is about the same time it takes to find my take-out menus, decide what I want, and call the restaurant.


This sounds like a lot of work, but you just do it in tiny little chunks, one task at a time, when you already have to do that task (like chopping some extra onions for the freezer when you need some for your chili). And you don't have to jump into the whole "system" at once. Over time, you'll get into the habit of making and storing a little extra, and before you realize what you're doing, you have a nice freezer stash.


As for enjoying your meals, it does take a little extra time to slow down and focus, but I find that when I take the time (even if it's just 5 or 10 minutes extra), I'm much more relaxed and the rest of my day ends up being more pleasant and efficient.


I LOVE the idea of a scale bonfire, but since you're already doing shovelglove, I highly recommend using your sledgehammer on it. Some of my dorm neighbors and I took a sledgehammer to a dead VCR the night before exams (oh, wow, that was longer ago than I'd like to admit), and it was very theraputic.

[BrightAngel]

jessdr

All excellent suggestions.

I have also incorporated most of those things into my own life.
Advance preparation, and freezing foods in individual portions
is an important part of my Maintenance lifestyle.

Before starting to do that, I feared it would just take too much time and effort.
But I am still amazed to realize how much Time, Effort and Money
that this process actually saves me.

[kccc]

Wow, Jessdr, I thought I was "queen of the quick real meal," but you have me beat!

Would love to have your ricotta gnocchi recipe - sounds delish. And I'm stealing your onion idea. I have been leaving onions out of recipes when I'm in a hurry, but they don't taste as good. Let me chime in that brown rice freezes very well - having it on hand can really speed up a meal.

I do keep several "pantry meals" on hand (though my pantry includes the freezer). As you say, those can go together quicker than ordering takeout!

Some ideas (for others interested)...
- Canned black beans for quick beans and rice or a simple black-bean soup.
- Frozen tortellini, or regular pasta It's easy to whip up a quick sauce.
- Cheese, decent bread, and flour tortillas. Grilled cheese or quesadillas are always good. And if I've got pre-cooked chicken in the freezer to add to the quesadillas, even better.
- Eggs. Crustless quiche is great, and there are lots of varieties.
- Couscous for a quick grain.

I try to cook something early in the week that makes lots of leftovers for lunches - always a treat.

[gratefuldeb67]

Deb, good point. I sometimes think throwing out the scale would make me a much happier person. Maybe a bonfire in the back yard...

Betty

Or you could do what I did my first year on NoS and smash it to bits with a sledgehammer as part of your Shovelglove workout!
What a good feeling that was!!!

Try measuring yourself with a tape measure, especially if you exercise often.

Have a good week!
Debs

[Betty]

Deb-- Love the image of you smashing your scale!!

[anndelise]

Here's an idea regarding the permasnacking...

I don't know if you do this, but it seems to be part of most permasnacking habits...
My daughter loves to snack, grabbing up anything anytime she's on the computer or reading a book. We could have just barely finished a meal that has our tummy's packed..and she'll hop on the computer and reach for a snack. Being on the computer is a snacking trigger for her. Once she sits in front of that computer, the trigger is hit and she wants a snack.

TV's been like that for all of us. We'd eat dinner or desserts in front of the tv. Over time it got to a point where as soon as we sat in front of the tv we'd each get an urge to munch on something..anything.

The very first thing I changed for this family...just before finding out about NoS, was "No food w/ TV, Reading, Computer, Games, etc". I've been strict on it (just like NoS suggests). If my daughter is done eating before we are, she's not allowed on the computer until AFTER the rest of us are done. That way we don't set up another trigger (her being on the computer makes US want to eat).

This alone has helped tremendously. The first couple of days, she'd ask me for food for the evening minimeal which I've allowed to be an option. (We eat dinner at 3:30, and are up until 9-10ish.) I'd tell her, "you can't be on the computer nor read nor watch tv if you eat it". And she'd think..and then say "nah, i'm not really hungry", then resume what she was doing without the extra food. Now she doesn't even ask.

One thing we learned from this is that sitting down at an empty table with no entertainment is kinda boring. Most times, that food time is just not worth it. We've got better things to do.


Anyways, another common permasnacking trigger is driving in the car. For this type, a rule of no food allowed in the car would help remove driving as a food trigger.

Perhaps you could review WHEN you begin snacking. Or even what's going on at the moment. Figure out what's triggering it, and try to reduce the trigger. If it's kids that are asking for a snack that puts that snack into your hand, tell them no more snacks...or...limit what type of snack is allowed (say...only veggie sticks, salad, or fresh fruit...(btw, these are all that's allowed for our evening minimeal which noone has taken yet)).


Another option could be to print out a mini-calendar for yourself.
Divide each day up according to how many meals you have per day. Ie divide into thirds of have three meals a day, or fourths if have four meals a day.
For each NoS meal, color that section green.
If you err for a meal, color it red. If you snack once between meals, count the prior meal as a red.
If you snack a second time between meals, count the next meal as being red.
If you turn the permasnacking into individual snacking events, that may help reduce how often the snack attacks. It may also point out any trouble spots by showing an overall pattern.

Also, by doing such, it helps remove the "oh today's already a red day, may as well keep S-ing."

(though, when marking the actual online habitcal, any red on a day is an overall red day, but the individual calendar is for YOU yourself)


anyhoot, good luck with whatever you decide. You've gotten some good ideas in previous posts, hopefully at least one of them will help with your situation.

[BrightAngel]

Here's an idea regarding the permasnacking...

Excellent ideas.

[jessdr]

Would love to have your ricotta gnocchi recipe

Here is the recipe I used for the gnocchi:
http://www.cheflive.com/index2.php?opti ... ipe_id=13/

You can make just the gnocchi, but the full recipe (fava beans, morels, asparagus) was good too!

I also used the gnocchi with bacon, onions, and zucchini in a carbonara-style sauce (mix egg + parmesan, toss into the piping-hot other ingredients until the egg cooks into a sauce). It was primarily an excuse to use up the zucchini, but everything else came out of the freezer, and it took 10 minutes!

[kccc]

That sounds delicious!

I did a pasta recipe tonight, but it was a simple "pantry recipe." Onions (some I froze, following your tip - worked great!), garlic, canned tomatoes, a splash of red wine, some marinated artichokes with liquid, basil (fresh, from my potted one), olives. Cooked until reduced slightly and served with penne. Had fresh cantaloupe and salad on the side. Totally delish.

Will have to try the gnocchi recipe. Thanks so much for sharing it!

[blueskighs]

KCCC

your simple "pantry recipe" sounds like wow! are you a chef?

Blueskighs

[kccc]

KCCC

your simple "pantry recipe" sounds like wow! are you a chef?

Blueskighs

Lol! No way.

I do like to cook, though and seek out new recipes to try. Especially "fast" recipes (since I work), and meals that I can just keep the ingredients for on hand and put together quickly. Pasta dishes are one great choice that tends to fit both criteria.

I'd just found the recipe for the sauce, which is much like my normal one except for the artichokes and olives. So, I picked some up at the grocery... and think those items may join my "pantry staples" from now on.

Jessdr's tips on quick meals (above) are really good. And I listed some of my standards below that.

I really feel that I get much healthier meals when I cook at home than when I go out. Not that I cook everything low-fat or anything like that... it's just that restaurant meals are so deceptive. You think you've made a healthy choice, then look up the nutrition info and reel in shock... at least when I cook I know what's in it.

[blueskighs]

Especially "fast" recipes

YES! with minimal ingredients

Blueskighs

[jessdr]

Especially "fast" recipes

YES! with minimal ingredients

Blueskighs

The book "The Minimalist Cooks Dinner" by Mark Bittman is great for fast meals from scratch without a ton of ingredients. What I really like about it is that the recipes are based around certain techniques (which he covers in plenty of detail), then he gives you lots of alternative flavor combinations for the recipe, and also encourages you to try your own.

Once you've tried a couple of variations, you have all the know-how you need to improvise your own dish around that technique with what you have on hand.

[blueskighs]

THank you for that suggestionm Definitely will check that out,
another great one is HOW TO COOK WITHOUT A BOOK!

Blueskighs

[jessdr]

THank you for that suggestionm Definitely will check that out,
another great one is HOW TO COOK WITHOUT A BOOK!

Blueskighs

That's a great book! I just traded that away on swaptree (which I also highly recommend) last month, after realizing that I no longer had to consult it. So it definitely delivers on its promises.