Doctor approved nutrition plan for Diabetes--No S!!!

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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la_loser
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Doctor approved nutrition plan for Diabetes--No S!!!

Post by la_loser » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:24 pm

Warning -- this is long but I'm guessing some of you will find it of interest because of its No S implications. . . I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes last week; I have quite regular check-ups and my glucose tests have never indicated I was even borderline diabetic except for 20 years ago when I had gestational diabetes which went right back to normal after my son was born. I understood that I was at risk for developing it later, but I had hoped I would continue to dodge that bullet.

Google-maniac that I am, I began researching what kind of diet I could expect the hospital's nutritionists and diabetes professionals to force upon-I had visions of strict versions of S.A.D. (substance accounting diets) and was trying to find a way to do No S instead, remembering some old posts I'd seen that made it seem diabetic friendly.

Since Reinhard always admonishes anyone who has medical issues to remember that he is not a doctor or anything close to a medical professional, it's critical for anyone to be sure to consult the medical experts, of course. . . so I did. . . I had my first session with the diabetes specialist on Tuesday to get my little meter and learn how to poke my finger four times a day, etc. (Added a great little app to my iPod Touch where I can record all my glucose levels, food (only if I want to) and exercise then it graphs it for me and I can email it as a graph to myself or my doctor.

But the big news is about when she began to discuss eating habits! She started to tell me some people count carbs or do WW or South Beach or other things but that she knows that is intimidating and hard to keep up with.

I said,
:wink: . . . ."How would it be if I make sure I eat three platefuls of food a day, avoiding snacks and sweets except for very special occasions. And for those three plates of food, I could be sure to have one-fourth of the plate be lean protein, one-fourth a starch with an emphasis on whole grains while limiting white starches-potatoes & rice, and filling the rest of the plate with non-starchy veggies and/or fruits?"
She looked at my with a surprised expression and said,
"Well, I think you've just about summed up what I was going to tell you to do-except more succinctly."


Then I explained my secret weapon and told her about No S and Reinhard, the website and the book, etc. I had to confess that although I've been doing No S for a few months, that the content/proportions what went on my three plates have been out of whack--and I hadn't lost much weight. With my diagnosis, I know now I have to do what I'll deem the "No S Diet with an (unofficial) Diabetic Twist" -- which can't officially be sanctioned by Reinhard because of liability issues. The nurse said that most likely the reason I haven't lost much on No S so far is because of the blood sugar issues. Now that I know I have to really curb the starches which I had not really been doing because I wanted to be one of the ones who can do Vanilla No S and drop the pounds.

Then the nurse gave me the form she was completing that was supposed to tell me what I should and should not eat. Instead of writing all the details she regularly writes, she actually wrote on my instruction sheet;
"follow the No S Diet plan."
OMG-I had her at "hello," and didn't even realize it. I was flabbergasted -- I had expected her to say that my idea was all nice and good but to be sure to do it her way too.

Needless to say, I'll be taking them one of those copies of the book that arrived today.

I was given the impression that I should feel like my diagnosis was a frightening one and they wanted to reassure me that I could handle this. But honestly, it really feels like this is the kick in the pants I needed to really get serious about my health. And since it was caught very early and my status is was nowhere near severe, I know I can handle this--especially since I can keep the "habits" I've been working to build while making the minor modifications to keep my levels at an acceptable level. The doctor is confident that I will be able to avoid having to deal with taking insulin, instead getting by with a generic drug (metformin), controlling my eating and adding a little more exercise.

I know that had I not had No S in my "toolbox," I would have been freaking out and worrying about how to handle all this. It's going to take a few weeks to get down to acceptable levels but I am positive it will happen.

Geez, Miss Long-Winded has gone and on. . . but I am so excited to share this. . . and I'd love to hear from anyone else out there who is dealing with diabetes as well.
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by BrightAngel » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:18 pm

Great Post.
Interesting information.
I look forward to watching your success.
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See: DietHobby. com

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Re: Doctor approved nutrition plan for Diabetes--No S!!!

Post by BrightAngel » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:20 pm

LA_Loser wrote:The nurse said that most likely the reason I haven't lost much on No S so far is because of the blood sugar issues.
I'm also interested in this statement.
Do you (or anyone) have more information on this you could share?
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
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wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:22 am

I've got a question: did you ask the doctor if you could try to control it with diet alone instead of taking the metformin? That would have been my first question -- I'd do just about anything to avoid the drugs for a number of reasons.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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To clarify

Post by la_loser » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:28 am

BA and Wosnes,

Let me clarify what she said- . . . note I didn't put that in quotes because I was paraphrasing. I'm thinking my paraphrasing didn't really get my point across!

Here's where I was coming from: I talked with her about how I'd been doing No S with only minimal weight loss (or clothes fitting better, etc.) for over five months. In my effort to "trust" the system and let my body figure out that I was not doing another "diet" diet, I began with three regular sized plates of food-not mounded or stacked, but I didn't pay as much attention to the types of food-in other words-I probably had mostly starches/not as many complex carbs, etc. We do have green salad often with dinner but I would tend to make that just a little section of the plate to make room for the "good stuff."

While I enjoy non-starchy veggies, I'm the only one at home who does and my husband who does most of the cooking anyway, gets nauseous at the odor of broccoli or cauliflower cooking, etc. (Seriously, he really gets ill.) Certainly there are ways around that but I'd thought I'd see how I did with the most simple form of No S. So my first mod was to simply go to smaller plates-but I didn't change the makeup of the foods--which meant my meals were made up primarily of carbs and not necessarily the good kind.

Additionally I have done little exercise in the last few months due to two different foot injuries and recurring/lingering knee issues on the other leg as well as a shoulder problem. Those are all finally (sort of) resolved so I should be able to get back to some real "movement with purpose." (This is the "it's no fun to be way over the hill" part!)

As you have often pointed out, we have to burn more calories than we put in if we're going to lose. But my choices of what foods to put on those plates did not constitute a BALANCED approach to eating. (again, I've paraphrased but that captures the gist, I believe.) I shared with the diabetes clinician that I wished that. . .
1) I would have much earlier on, began the mod of having 1/2 a plate of fruits/veggies, 1/4 plate of lean protein and 1/4 plate of complex carbs
2) I had been able to do more exercise (I had been warned not to do too much too soon because I'd already reaggravated one of foot problems by walking too much, too fast, too soon.)

If those two items had been accomplished, she thought my glucose levels would have begun to come down on their own and my weight would have dropped off a little easier. The list of things to do to control blood sugar includes:
1) Lose weight if you are considered "obese."
2) Restrict sugar, sweets and simple carbs.
3) Adding even a modest exercise routine.
4) Drug therapy
5) If all of those do not take care of it, then insulin therapy would be required. My doctor is confident that I follow the first four I won't have to take insulin. She even thinks that it could be that once my sugar levels are back to normal for a period of time, that I could stop taking the metformin and see if I can control it that way. But she did want to me to start out on it to grab control as quickly as possible. She does think that being able to dump the drugs is likely. :D

All of these things are so connected and I'm excited that I'm on track to take control of my life and my diabetes. Since my glucose levels became elevated rather quickly (had tests run in April and all was well. . .), we've caught this really early before it's done any real damage and my "pump" as my doctor calls my pancreas is just now exhibiting problems, they are all optimistic about the long-term outlook.

I apologize for unintentionally seeming to draw a conclusion--I mean I knew what I meant--but clearly didn't state it correctly!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by Kathleen » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:06 am

LA Loser,

Would you mind my asking you the blood sugar level that you had? I'm wondering how you could have gone from not having a blood sugar level above 100 (which is pre-diabetic) to one over 124 (which is diabetic). That seems like an awfully big leap to have occurred, unless you don't have annual physicals.

I have wondered if my eating things like four Haagen Dazs bars in a day could have caused my blood sugar to spike, but I had a level below 100 when I had blood work done prior to my colonoscopy in mid October. It seems that following No S can mean an initial period of time when your desires are out of whack. I have recently developed a craving for, of all things, citrus fruits. The days of all sweets all day seem to be over. It's just a thought, but I'm wondering how permanent your condition will be.

Kathleen

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Post by blueskighs » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:34 am

LA Loser,

this is great news. and just wanted to share I have never been diagnosed as diabetic or pre-diabetic however for the past 4 to 5 years I have been keeping my eye on the my blood sugar. For the past two years my numbers have gone steadily up so that by time I started NO S it was not uncommon to have fasting blood sugar in the 90s ... not diabetic/pre-diabetic but not a healthy trend. However, after doing NO S for 8 plus months my blood sugar numbers have gone down significantly, my goal is to keep them 85 or less in the past month they have been dropping down to 70s LONG time since I have seen that and this mornign they were 75, also after S days they would religiously go up, but LAST WEEKEND they did not! YAY! THe reason I love this is it is tangible proof besides weight loss that my body is getting healthier ... i.e. responding to insulin better on NO S. THe interesting thing has been the gradualness of the change.

ANYWAY, I do eat lots of veggies and complex carbs. Keep my "whites" pretty much ALL OF THEM for S days :D

Good Luck and keep us posted on your progress,

Blueskighs
www.nosdiet.blogspot.com Where I blog daily about my No S journey

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Post by wosnes » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:37 am

This is what I was looking at:
LA Loser wrote:And since it was caught very early and my status is was nowhere near severe, I know I can handle this--especially since I can keep the "habits" I've been working to build while making the minor modifications to keep my levels at an acceptable level. The doctor is confident that I will be able to avoid having to deal with taking insulin, instead getting by with a generic drug (metformin), controlling my eating and adding a little more exercise.
Obviously I don't know the specifics of your situation, but depending on your fasting glucose and A1C levels, going straight to metformin without giving you a chance to get things back in line with diet and exercise seems premature to me. I've worked with lots of diabetics (I'm an R.N.) and unless blood sugars are way out of line, they're usually given a chance to "fix" the problem before resorting to meds. Often the dietary changes are all that's needed, but exercise is equally important -- and it doesn't need to be more than walking.

I'm just surprised that medication was offered up initially.

I'm not affiliated with nor recommending the program that this link talks about, but this is a good explanation:
http://www.reversingdiabetes.org/index.php?page=hiw

One thing I've found through my own experience and from working with others is that the more you do and the LESS you rely on medication to take care of things (blood sugar, cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc.), the better off you will be. Not only will you not have any side effects from medications, you're less likely to develop complications of whatever it is you're treating.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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more info

Post by la_loser » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:18 am

I'm in the middle of some final stuff for the semester so finding all my glucose counts to share will have to wait a day or two. But meanwhile. . .
I do have a physical once a year and because I've had high cholesterol off and on and have been on Lipitor (yeah, I know, another drug!), my doc is careful to run my blood tests for all those issues (cholesterol and blood sugar) at least twice or more a year. She has always been adamant that whenever we can avoid meds we do. . . which is why I've not been on Lipitor very long. She has been urging me to lose weight, etc. for a long time--I think when this popped up, she wanted to get it controlled . . . somehow . . . as quickly as possible since I hadn't been very successful at controlling it thru weight loss or exercise.

On Tuesday, the first day I began using the test monitor my low count was 153 before lunch and and my high was 249 2 hours after that meal. Tonight I'm at 188 2 hours after dinner. So it is pretty high.

Regarding my medical history, this is what I put in the original entry. . .
I have quite regular check-ups and my glucose tests have never indicated I was even borderline diabetic except for 20 years ago when I had gestational diabetes which went right back to normal after my son was born.
So yes, I do have a complete physical yearly and extensive blood tests, etc. And blood tests more often than that. And I'll have to dig deep to find my copy of all my test results that were done in April I believe. My memory is that my doc said that my sugars were higher than and that I was close to the PRE-diabetic range.

And yes, we both thought is strange for this to show up now like I was skipping a step. After the initial blood tests in early November, she had me come back later to do the whole glucose tolerance test for several hours.

Regarding my treatment of S days and whether they could have any effect on these recent developments. I think I've eaten fewer sweets since knowing I was "allowed" to do than I had in a long time. I'm the one who came up with a habitcal for S days called "not_an_idiot_S_day" where I marked a green for days when I used good sense and followed the "sometimes" rule very carefully. As a matter of fact, I've followed Kathleen's posts regarding her Haagen Daz cravings at midnight or early in the morning and I was interested in that--because those feelings are completely foreign to me. It's ironic, I suppose, that I'm the one who is now having sugar issues! I really haven't found my S days to cause any cravings.

Thanks to all of you for your input and info. The website suggested looks promising. And once I get the semester over with and the next week of craziness is done. . . and oh, yeah, get all the birthday and Christmas stuff ready for our Little Butterfly Fairy Princess (aka granddaughter who'll be four on the 29th! --- Can you say-pink pink pink!), then I'll look up those earlier numbers as my evidence that this really is a new development--I understand that some of you seem skeptical, maybe it's just curiosity--but I'm not sure why I'd make that up! :)
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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And another thing!

Post by la_loser » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:30 am

I do appreciate all the attention my situation has stirred up. . . but honestly, my reason for posting about this at all was to draw attention to the fact that "No S with a couple of tweaks" is, for all purposes, the eating plan I'm supposed to be on. . . and that once I explained what No S is, that she actually wrote "follow the No S Diet" on my plan.

And I forgot to mention that the exercise suggested was to start out with 15-20 minutes per day of walking then add to it as my knee and feet allow. . .Oh, yeah, doesn't that sound like 14 or 21 minutes, each multiples of 7!? OMG, I am so brainwashed-or it it Reinwashed!

I was just trying to be a Everyday System Cheerleader sans the short skirt and pompoms--let's not even go there! Yea No S!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by Kathleen » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:49 am

LA_Loser,
Your posts are very interesting. I think it is common knowledge that obesity is correlated with type 2 diabetes, and one of the possible initial results of following the No S Diet is that you have total freedom on S Days and may eat so much in sweets that you could trigger something like diabetes. I think your story will be interesting to follow for those who already have diabetes before they start on this and those who, like me, are concerned about what could happen in following it. Thanks.
Kathleen

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Post by BrightAngel » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:20 pm

I think this is a very interesting Thread.
I've not had a Diabetes health issue...yet...,
however, I think awareness of this subject is helpful
for all of us who struggle with weight issues.

Thanks for sharing here.
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wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:05 pm

LA Loser -- I need to apologize for going on...but I was surprised.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Aw, man--not my intent!

Post by la_loser » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:10 pm

Wosnes,

No worries or need to apologize. I do appreciate and respect your viewpoint as a medical professional. I am just concerned that while my intent was to showcase how my doctor and diabetes specialists all thought that No S is exactly what I need. . .but the thread took a turn that I by no means intended.

And I will be checking in regularly with my doc about whether I need to continue the metformin.

Never did I ever mean to imply or give information from which a conclusion could/should be drawn that No S could CAUSE diabetes. My doc has known I was doing No S for months and all along had supported my doing it. The nutritionist is the one who was assigning my eating plan to me and determined that what she wanted me to do was exactly No S--as long as I keep my S days sane. (BTW, Wosnes--loved your sane eating thread!)

Something you said in a post to Kathleen on Dec. 15 really stuck with me. . .
Why think it through at all? Why not just do it and not worry about the why's? Here's the deal -- if you were in an accident or diagnosed with some disease, you wouldn't worry about the "why", you'd just do what it takes to fix the situation and get better. Why not do the same here? Just put it on autopilot and forget about it.

The why's and how's of an issue aren't important. What's important is how we handle it. If you fall off the wagon, get back on.
And that is what I'm doing-and what I'm doing is No S with particular attention to continue not being an idiot on S days! And I'm thinking about just requesting to have this topic removed to make sure there's not any more confusion.

Thanks for your support. (And BA, thanks for your point regarding how this is something anyone who struggles with weight issue should be alert about. . .-bad sentence structure, but you get the point!)
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by reinhard » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:51 pm

LA_Loser,

I thought your post was quite clear -- and wonderful confirmation that no-s makes sense. Thank you for writing it!

And I think the others understood this as well -- but threads can move in mysterious and unpredictable ways. As long as everyone stays civil (as they have here) I think this can be a good thing.

If you don't mind, I'd much rather quote from and link to this thread than delete it!

(Lots of zingers, but I think this was my favorite:
Then the nurse gave me the form she was completing that was supposed to tell me what I should and should not eat. Instead of writing all the details she regularly writes, she actually wrote on my instruction sheet;
Quote:
"follow the No S Diet plan."
)

Reinhard

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Post by Mavilu » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:59 pm

Well, this doesn't surprise me, as I have said ad nauseaum: this is how people has always eaten! and to throw completely anecdotal evidence: I don't know a single person in my country that has diabetes; I didn't even know what diabetes was exactly until I came to live here and over there, they are all natural NoSers, so...

My glucose numbers were getting higher over the years, too, but now that I'm back at two-three meals a day, I expect to see them lower on this upcoming physical results.

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Post by la_loser » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:23 pm

Reinhard,

Thanks for the affirmation-let's just leave it as it is. I think you're right--the evidence continues to build (as it does with Mavilu's post) and with the book that Wosnes posted the link to today.

What a concept! Regular balanced meals-add some movement, avoid the junk-rather go for quality and indulge ourselves every once in a while! Now that the two "trickiest weeks" of the year are upon us (Reinhard's words) we can all try to put the power of those habits to the test-big time!

Yeah, I should copy that form the nurse wrote out for me that "prescribed" No S and send it to you! It was so cool!

Good luck everyone-and thanks again for your kind words.
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Re: To clarify

Post by Happy Cooker » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:23 pm

LA_Loser wrote:
While I enjoy non-starchy veggies, I'm the only one at home who does and my husband who does most of the cooking anyway, gets nauseous at the odor of broccoli or cauliflower cooking, etc. (Seriously, he really gets ill.) Certainly there are ways around that

Yes, there are ways around it! He may be reacting to the sulfurous smell that cabbage relatives (including broccoli, cauliflower, collards, kale) give off when cooked in water. I'm not crazy about the smell either, and I find that putting cauliflower or broccoli pieces straight into hot oil eliminates the odor. Maybe he could branch out into other types of cooking that you'd all like: there are fabulous Indian cauliflower dishes, Asian stir-fries, and a classic Italian pasta made with broccoli, garlic, and crushed red pepper. Or eat veggies raw or pickled. When all the pickles are gone from a jar of good kosher dills, I fill the jar with cauliflower florets and sliced carrots and peppers. In a few days they too are pickles, and they make a great way to add vegs to a sandwich lunch. You can keep reusing the brine too.

There are many great ways to cook vegetables other than the boil, drain, and add butter method. The gifting holidays are here, and cookbooks are gifts that keep on giving.

Anyway, this is beside your main point, which is indeed compelling. I see that someone added a link to reversing diabetes. A friend of mine's diabetic cat became nondiabetic (much to the vet's surprise) after some months of eating restriction and some drugs, so for all I know it's possible in humans too. Best of luck with it--as you say, you are well on your way to handling it by already doing No S.

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Thanks

Post by la_loser » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:13 pm

Happy Cooker,
Thanks for the tips; I do already find lots of ways to work those things into my meals-it just requires me to remember to add "my" stuff to my plate. The ideas about the pickles is a great one. It reminded me of a recipe I'd forgotten about!

I've made delicious sugar -free "sweet garlic pickles" by draining one of those "industrial sized" sour or dill whole pickles, cut into chunks, add add a cheesecloth bag of pickling spices, several cups of generic Splenda and 6 or 8 chunky pieces of garlic. Let it stand, sealed, turning upside down, then back the next day for a week or so. There is enough brine within the pickles that blends with the Splenda and the pickles become quite "crunchy" and tasty. The original was made with a ton of sugar but I came up with my cheat recipe a few years ago.

I know that with No S that it's not a "no sugar" rule so others wouldn't even need to use the Splenda. . . but I'm not taking any chances this year. Besides Splenda is such a great product that I use it a lot. Even Mr. Picky prefers it now in lots of things.

Speaking of. . . he is such a jewel and such a great cook as well (and a willing one, too!) that I know we'll figure all this out. With the exception of his fettucine alfredo (OMG!), the ingredients and cooking methods are mostly healthy ones as it is.

Thanks for the ideas,
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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cooking ideas

Post by Happy Cooker » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:57 pm

Well, it sounds like both of you are pretty resourceful in the kitchen and that he is concerned about your health too. It reminds me that the same friend with the self-healing diabetic cat later was diagnosed with diabetes herself. That scared her into losing 60 to 80 pounds, which she did by more sensible eating and getting into water aerobics. She ended up teaching the water aerobics classes herself, which was cool because then she didn't pay for classes. Her condition was so well controlled at that point that it became a nonissue, and I truly forgot she was diabetic until just now.

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