Feel really hungry between meals without snacks

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm

Hi everyone.

I've now been following the No-S diet for about 2 weeks, & I'm finding it really doable. So am very happy to continue with this plan. However, the only issue I have is with the complete no-snacking between meals. What I'm finding is that I tend to overeat slightly at mealtimes, just because of being so hungry in between. It's true that, before starting the No-S diet, my main problem was from bad snacking (e.g. desserts, muffins, lots of nuts in between meals etc). Is there a way, do you think, to just have a small, structured snack between lunch & dinner (which is where I have the most trouble) e.g. 2 oatcakes or 5 almonds or something simple like that- or is that a slippery slope d'you think? I'm sure others must have had the same problem (and I'm sorry if there are already other posts out there on the same topic).

Cassie

Nichole · Post by **Nichole** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:48 pm

Hi! I think a snack of 100 cals or less is okay. I do it and I'm at a healthy weight (150). I have something like fat-free yogurt (90 cals) or a cheese snack of 80 cals (I have been eating Sargento colby jack cheese sticks, so yummy!). Both are under 100 calories. If I had to eat something that's not preproportioned, however, I think I'd be in trouble. If you eat a couple peanuts or something, it's easy to be tempted to eat more than you should. Oh and I'm trying not to do this every day, just when I really need it.

Post by **reinhard** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:28 pm

Hi Cassie

There are a bunch of people here who eat more than three meals on no-s, so that's certainly an option. A regular, structured 4th mini-meal called snack is OK. The main problem, as you point out, is unstructured permasnacking. I'd prefer you didn't call your 4th meal a snack (tea? supper/dinner? hobbit style 2nd breakfast?), but that's semantics

.

That being said, the power of habit is pretty amazing. If you do tough it out a little longer you might be surprised at how bearable (even pleasant!) vanilla three meal no-s gets. And I find that three meals are just much less of a headache to monitor than four or more. Between meal drinks (even caloric ones, provided they're not loaded with sugar) are a big (and totally legitimate) help.

Best of luck, whatever you decide, and keep us posted,

Reinhard

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:00 pm

Thanks Reinhardt,

That actually makes sense what you say, & it's very helpful. So far I haven't actually had snacks in between meals (except a couple of oatcakes, 1-2 times). The reason I say this is because I have a 7 month old baby, I have breakfast very early (around 7.30), then lunch early (at 12.00) but then dinner is at 8.00 or even later. So that large gap- between lunch & dinner- is what I'm more worried about.

Will try to think what is best for me to do. The important thing is not to make excuses!

apomerantz · Post by **apomerantz** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:34 pm

Cassie,

I found that initially, it was very, very challenging to get from meal to meal, but I stuck with the rigid formula because I felt that if I had a snack, I would be sliding down that slippery slope. I just don't trust myself to keep that snack small. You may not have that challenge, but I know from my past dieting experience that I don't do well with shades of gray. I'm much better with the more rigid structure.

I'm on about Day 56, and I am pleased to report that it does get so so much easier. I don't even think about food between meals. I do have a coffee around 4 pm - - which just keeps the edge off my hunger when I'm prepping food for dinner (which is a bit risky for me because I tended to nibble).

I'm surprised that my body did adapt, but it actually did! That said, you are going so long between lunch and dinner. Can you move lunch to be later? I eat my breakfast at 6:30 am, lunch at 1 pm and dinner at 6:30 pm. I can imagine your dinner is immoveable, but could you have your breakfast at 7:30 am, lunch at 2 pm, and then dinner at 8? That might be a lot easier . . .

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!!!

p.s. my weight has also moved into the healthy BMI range from slightly overweight - thx to no S. But I'm at the high end of it . . . so am hoping to get down further.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:20 pm

Thank you apomerantz, actually what you say makes total sense. That slippery slope is what we don't want... and I feel that snacking (even a little bit) doesn't help, to be honest, at least at the beginning of the diet. I'll have a think about what to do, how to move the times of my meals around a little bit...and I'll try to see what's easiest / best. Thanks again! (and congrats, btw, for doing so well on the diet).

apomerantz · Post by **apomerantz** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:22 pm

Cassie,

You'll do awesome after you get past the first three weeks or so. I can feel your motivation through the computer!

One thing that really did help me initially was a cup of coffee just because the caffeine really does dull my hunger pangs. But they really do go away, and I'll wish that they go away extra quickly for you!!

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:25 pm

yes, coffee (decaf for me) & also good tea definitely helps. (It also helps with the new-baby tiredness, but that's another story!)

winnie96 · Post by **winnie96** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:12 am

I do have to say: one of the best things I have learned on No-S (after 7 months), is how much to eat at one of my three meals so that I arrive at my next meal ready to eat, but not crazed. It took a lot of experimenting, because I was used to the conventional program of 3 meals plus 1 or 2 "snacks", but eliminating the snack approach and focusing on how much I really need to eat at three meals has been an eye-opener. When I was doing the snack thing, I couldn't get a handle on how much food I needed, and, for the most part, I didn't get the enjoyment I get out of three well-proportioned meals per day. I thought I liked eating every few hours, but in terms of food enjoyment, three "squares" is much more satisfying (to me). I also had to determine what three "squares" were, and I ended up doing lots more whole food, from scratch cooking, which has lowered my cholesterol and kept me off statins.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that trying "vanilla" No-S with no snacks for a period of time, however painful it may seem at first, can give you the opportunity to develop a much healthier style of eating that you might otherwise have done, had you continued with the snacking style.

I know that everyone is different, and it may be that some people need the snack plan. I just want to say that I totally thought I did, but it turns out that I don't, but it did take a lot of effort to figure out the "right" meal configuration for me.

For those of you who can have 3 meals + snacks every day, without getting bogged down with perma-snacking: best wishes. But I do think it's worth giving 3 meals/no snacks a try. For me, it took 3+ months of trying this-and-that to figure out what worked for me. I was very tempted to give up, but when I finally developed a meal plan that worked for me, I found it very liberating.

JME (Just My Experience) ... but I really think that it's very worthwhile to try "vanilla" No-S for a month or two or so, before you decide what tweaks you might need to make.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:12 am

Winnie thanks for this tip. I've given it a bit of thought (since yesterday) & I think what you say does make sense. I will try to go for the 3 meals then. The only small change I am thinking of making at the moment is having 2 oatcakes WHEN and only when I feel very hungry between lunch & dinner. I say this because a) I have a small baby and b) I'm breastfeeding, so it's sometimes hard to know beforehand what mealtimes will be etc. But on principle I'll be trying to avoid even this small snack.

Can I ask. What helped you understand what kind of food was best so that you could stick to the 3 meals? What food choices worked for you (if you're happy to say)?

Many thanks.
Cassie

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:22 am

Yep, that'll do it.. Breastfeeding made me ravenous when I was nursing!
Good luck!
Adjust it as you need Cassie and enjoy your little one.

Debs

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:32 am

The other problem with the breastfeeding is that I'm not losing weight

I mean, I don't mind really as I realise No-S is not a 'quick fix' diet, but surely after 2 weeks (and a bit more actually) I should have started losing... I am making quite an effort, and it's just slightly frustrating. Maybe I'll post a separate thread about bf & diets. Or I'll do a search first...

winnie96 · Post by **winnie96** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:39 pm

Cassie wrote:Can I ask. What helped you understand what kind of food was best so that you could stick to the 3 meals? What food choices worked for you ...

First off, given your small baby and the breastfeeding, I'm sure you don't have the luxury of focusing entirely on your food plan (!!!) so if you feel the need to snack, I'd say go right ahead and save a more intensive plan for a bit later.

As far as understanding what kind of food worked: I had lost 60 lbs on Weight Watchers, and was following their Good Health Guideline re fruits & veggies, oil, water, etc. so I had a fairly healthy base. However, I was restricting some foods (e.g. potatoes, grains, butter) and using a lot of pre-packaged stuff.

When I started No-S with no snacks, I first kept my meals about the same, but would really get hungry, which wasn't all bad as I had really forgotten how good food could taste if you're hungry. But not that hungry!

So my experimenting consisted of increasing portion sizes just a bit, then adding in more of the foods that I really like & find filling, but had been avoiding: for example, walnuts and a hard-boiled egg white in my oatmeal with blueberries, a small turkey sandwich to go with my vegetable soup & apple at lunch, a sweet potato or some barley with my chicken and spinach at dinner.

Then the "real foods" started tasting so good compared to the pre-packaged stuff that I started messing around with actually cooking -- and discovered that real food is also more satisfying. (Also, I've found that, for me, having a bit of protein at each meal is a big help).

Finding the right balance was really a process -- not just one "aha" moment. I tried to think of it as an exciting and fun adventure (although it was a little tough at times). I don't think I've got the whole thing solved, but that keeps me interested in trying new (whole) foods and recipes.

Hope this helps to give you some idea of what worked for me. But remember that you are in whole different place that I am, so you may need to make your own adjustments. These boards are a huge help in seeing the various ways that people tweak No-S to fit their needs, and by all means start a breastfeeding thread -- I'll bet you're not alone!

Best wishes to you and your little one, Winnie

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:17 pm

Cassie wrote:The other problem with the breastfeeding is that I'm not losing weight I mean, I don't mind really as I realise No-S is not a 'quick fix' diet, but surely after 2 weeks (and a bit more actually) I should have started losing... I am making quite an effort, and it's just slightly frustrating. Maybe I'll post a separate thread about bf & diets. Or I'll do a search first...

So sorry for the frustration Cassie.
For me, personally, breast feeding or not, I don't lose weight unless I am also doing regular exercise, with NoS.. For me if I don't add exercise, the best I can hope for is maintenance, which considering the food choices I make actually, is a blessing.
Don't worry Cassie. You stick to this and do a bit of exercise and I promise you will lose weight.. Might just be a bit slower. That is precisely because you are not on a crash diet.
Try doing four meals instead of three, so you aren't overeating at mealtimes, and don't eat late at night (that's not a NoS rule, but I know that it really makes or breaks whether I lose weight if I don't eat late into the night) and have loads of water.
Best of luck!

Debs

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:58 pm

Oh sorry for double posting, but it just occurred to me that it's quite poss that because you are nursing, your body simply needs more fluid and in an effort to have that for making milk, it's holding onto excess water.
I'd really just make an effort to add more water and milk to your diet (and an occasional beer cos that will make you produce milk like you wouldn't believe!! LOL.. gives you that B12 from the brewers yeast...)
Good luck!
Give your body time to adjust to all the hormonal and lifestyle changes..
Stress alone will slow down a persons ability to lose weight btw..
I'm sure being a new mom you may not exactly be getting optimal rest etc..
Hope this helps

Debs

TigerCrane · Post by **TigerCrane** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:35 am

"The only small change I am thinking of making at the moment is having 2 oatcakes WHEN and only when I feel very hungry between lunch & dinner."

Nonononnonono! Don't do it!

What you are doing is allowing your appetite to dictate your meal schedule istead of the other way around. If you want to have oatcakes between meals, just do it! Do it very day. Hell, make a tradition of it! Have a cup of tea with the oatcakes and put your feet up.

Eating just because you feel hungry is snacking.

For the record, I eat four meals every day. One of them is usually just a piece of toast. I've lost 35 pounds.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:56 am

Wow Tiger Crane that is fantastic!!
Congratulations!!
How long have you been using NoS and do you exercise?

Debs

TigerCrane · Post by **TigerCrane** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:14 am

Thanks!

i've been no-sing since January of 08, so 15 months.

I definitely exercise. I train martial arts and I think my teacher learned his trade from Leonides of Sparta. :O

TigerCrane · Post by **TigerCrane** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:38 am

Also Cassie,

I'd like to recommend that you add the shangri-la diet to your regimen.

I hate calling it a diet, because its not a diet, its a supplement.

I find it really works in supresssing between meal hunger

I know its been covered on this board before, but I'll sum it up here anyway.

All it is this:

1) At least one hour after eating drink FLAVORLESS olive oil. That's EXTRA LIGHT OLIVE OIL. Not, I repeat NOT extra virgin.
2) After taking the oil, wait another hour before consuming flavor.
3) During the two hour window (One hour before drinking the oil and one hour after) dont take ANY FLAVOR...no smoking, no coffee, no juice, no toothbrushing.

4) The amount of oil you consume is twice your bodyweight in calories. 1 TBS of oil has (if memory serves) 110 calories. So if you weigh 200 lbs yoou need about 4 tbs (which is about 1 shot glass)

There's plenty on the net about this. If you do this you might not even need the oatcakes.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:01 pm

"What you are doing is allowing your appetite to dictate your meal schedule istead of the other way around."

For me, I don't think it was even appetite. It was just habit. For example, I would always head to the kitchen as soon as I got in the door. I've been on this diet a little over six months, and I rarely think about food except at mealtime. I went from an approach of being contstantly tuned into hunger to an approach in which I tune out hunger except at mealtime.

This is from a post of mine in September, which is the month I started the diet:

"5 PM: Sadly, my resolve is waivering. I want to eat. I really, really want to eat. The kids are watching TV, and I'm lying down. I'm going to prepare an early dinner and eat as much as I can fit on a plate. What I need to do here is look on these diets as only five days long. I have only 30 hours to go before I can eat what I want. The willingness to forego food now, even if I binge in two days, will slowly dampen my appetite. I cannot believe I got myself into the situation that I am in -- obese and starving all the time."

It took three months before it became not too difficult to only have three meals, and it is becoming more an more routine.

Kathleen

noni · Post by **noni** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:32 pm

Cassie,

It took me a good four months of nursing before the weight started to melt off (I nursed all my children for a year). That was three children I had in my 20's. As far as the two children that I had in my 30's, the weight loss was very slow and minimal because not only was I older but I had already established bad eating habits. The baby I had in my 40's...ahh forget it! I wish I knew about No S long ago.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Hi Cassie,
If I may say something, I agree that having a snack if and when you feel hungry is NOT a good idea. Decide that youâ€™ll have 3 or 4 meals a day, and stick to it, your body will adapt and eventually you will feel hungry when youâ€™re supposed to. I promise it works!
If, one day, youâ€™re not hungry for your afternoon oatcakes, think about it before skipping them: can you hold it until dinner time? If not, then you should probably eat a little and not think about food until dinner.

Personally, I donâ€™t snack, but I do have tea or coffee with milk. If youâ€™ve read Reinhardâ€™s book, you know that drinking milk between meals is absolutely okay. Itâ€™s healthy and it works for me (most of the time!)

This is just my opinion, of course, but I hope itâ€™s helpful. I wish you good luck, Cassie.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:35 am

Cassie,
This is against Reinhard's recommendations, but I actually allow myself sugared pop between meals. I don't particularly like it, and I rarely have it at home, so when I drink it between meals, it is for holding me over to mealtime. Sometimes tweaks to this diet are what someone needs to get us through.
Kathleen