"The End of Overeating"

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guadopt1997
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"The End of Overeating"

Post by guadopt1997 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:45 pm

Interesting article in the Washington Post about David Kessler, who wrote the book "The End of Overeating" having discovered that "foods high in salt, fat, and sugar alter the brain's chemistry in ways that compel people to overeat."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02711.html

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Post by guadopt1997 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:02 pm

Sorry, I'd forgotten to put the url...

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Post by midtownfg » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:27 pm

This was a very interesting article. And totally re-emphasized why I don't eat at Chili's. Everything is so salty but once I start eating I can't control myself. My husband and I went every Monday night for years until we finally decided that we had had enough. It is addictive and so nasty. When they opened a location where I work, I was really worried about how I would handle it. Luckily, I saw roaches there twice and didn't have to rely on willpower alone to keep me from ever going again.

My main rule is to avoid chain restaurants. When we go out to eat, whether at home or on vacation, we only go to locally owned places. And this article totally reinforces that rule. Those places are trying to make everyone into drooling clones who can't get enough of their fat, salt and sugar laden goodies.

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Post by TunaFishKid » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:46 pm

Ditto, midtown. My husband and I used to love those places (Chili's, Outback, etc.), but either their food got worse or our palates became a little more sophisticated because we can't eat there anymore. Everything is so very salty and greasy it's practically inedible. I much prefer my own cooking to the big chains.

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Post by winnie96 » Tue May 05, 2009 2:53 pm

Am almost finished with the book -- interesting information about how the food industry constructs new taste delights" for us, but I found his chapters on the reward response process even more interesting. I'm no scientist, but I'm thinking that if you can develop reward responses to foods other than the salt-fat-sweet category by changing/replacing your habits, you might have a shot at breaking out of the weight loss/gain loop. No-S's emphasis on habit and behavior would seem very supportive of an effort like that. Lots to think about ...

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Post by Blithe Morning » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:58 am

I caught Dr. Kessler talking about TEoO on Book TV (video linked below). He spends a lot of time talking about the brain's response circuitry to sugar, fat and salt, and how it's necessary to "cool the response down" in order to successfully break out of overeating.

Reinhard, if you haven't already you should send him a copy of your book. It's very applicable to what he has to say.

End of Overeating

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Post by reinhard » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:41 pm

Reinhard, if you haven't already you should send him a copy of your book
I agree -- though I think he's sufficiently famous now that it he'd be unlikely to be able to spare the attention. Worth a shot though...

Reinhard

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Post by FarmerHal » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:35 pm

This is Fascinating for me!
I thought it was a matter of weak will or something, but I find that if I start eating a salt or sweet that once I start I find it very hard to stop.
It feels So GOOD to me to eat those items. It just feels so good!

I will try very hard to follow his advice. And I especially liked his 'no french fries, ever" rule he has for himself. That's a large trigger for me. Once in a while I'll take the kids out for BK or McD's and not only will I eat my large fry, but I'll scavenge their leftover fries as well. They're not really that tasty, but it's just so gooood to eat them. Same thing with sweets. I can't have just one cookie or I will continue to eat and eat.

Then generally my hands and feet swell uncomfortably (hello! listen to your body!) and my body feels all woozy and spacy as does my brain. Kindof a hangover I spose.

Its amazing how our brains work and how certain things can influence it so!
Great article, thanks for posting.
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Blithe Morning
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Post by Blithe Morning » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:30 pm

Tiffani,

I'm glad you can see that your struggles are, in large part, very much a function of what's going on with your brain and not some defect within your moral character. Given your especially stressful home situation with DH deployed, I can see why you might even be more vulnerable to the impacts of the dopamine spike.

I am convinced more than ever that No S is the only sane way to break out of overeating. I like how Dr Kessler calls it "cooling down the response mechanism".

This is making me think about some mods that I might start adding to S days which can be problematic for me. I need to start really thinking about the "sometimes" and what that means.

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Post by Jammin' Jan » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:21 pm

I read this book a month or so ago and thought it was wonderful. The diet part at the end was a little vague, but the info on sugar, fat, and salt was first rate.
"Self-denial's a great sweetener of pleasure."
(Patrick McGoohan's "The Prisoner")

guadopt1997
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Post by guadopt1997 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:42 pm

Jammin' Jan wrote: The diet part at the end was a little vague.
Good thing you don't need the diet part since you have no-S! :)

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Post by FarmerHal » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:24 pm

So I went to a family reunion for lunch today and found a great aunt had lost quite a bit of weight and looked really good for a lady in her 70s. She told me the secret LOL I nearly fell off the chair in excitement. She said: "Now Tiffi, the secret is I cut out the sweets and snackings and had ONE portion at meal time and that was it!"

Ha.

Funny how it works. Indeed it's the granny diet, now if I would just follow it...
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Post by Bushranger » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:12 am

The man's work is obviously well researched and solid. Hopefully it will bring about a bit of a paradigm shift in how food is allowed to be produced and marketed. Even if it doesn't it should help a lot of people realise that eating out, even "healthy" choices really aren't at all.

My only concern though is that people will use it as yet another excuse for their obesity. "Oh my pig outs aren't my fault, McDonalds made me do it!" It reminds me of the "fat virus" that was being raved about last year here in Australia. I get a bit tired of this kind of BS to be honest.

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Jammin' Jan
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Post by Jammin' Jan » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:55 pm

Some people are just going to look for excuses and they will find them. But at least the information is out there for those of us who are trying to take responsibility for our own behavior.
"Self-denial's a great sweetener of pleasure."
(Patrick McGoohan's "The Prisoner")

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Post by guadopt1997 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:23 pm

shamrockmommy wrote: "Now Tiffi, the secret is I cut out the sweets and snackings and had ONE portion at meal time and that was it!"
I bet she's not having my kind of S day though...

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Post by wosnes » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:35 pm

shamrockmommy wrote:So I went to a family reunion for lunch today and found a great aunt had lost quite a bit of weight and looked really good for a lady in her 70s. She told me the secret LOL I nearly fell off the chair in excitement. She said: "Now Tiffi, the secret is I cut out the sweets and snackings and had ONE portion at meal time and that was it!"

Ha.

Funny how it works. Indeed it's the granny diet, now if I would just follow it...
I think the trick is to make it such a habit that you can't imagine not following it. We used to have those habits (not us, maybe, but our parents or grandparents or great-grandparents), but we've lost them over time.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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The End of Overeating AND The NoSDiet

Post by sterhill » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:54 am

HAH! Maybe Dr. Kessler is is more famous and maybe not... I bought The End of Overeating AND The NoSDiet from Amazon at the same time... both are excellent books... both provided me with great information...both arrived in the same box...

I was really appalled at how the food service industry figures out the proper ratio of salt, sugar and fat to keep the brain wanting to just keep stuffing it in... I shouldn't be but I am...

:o Sterhill

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Re: The End of Overeating AND The NoSDiet

Post by Bushranger » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:25 am

sterhill wrote:I was really appalled at how the food service industry figures out the proper ratio of salt, sugar and fat to keep the brain wanting to just keep stuffing it in... I shouldn't be but I am...
I think it's very reasonable to be appalled at this. It's a sad indictment against society that it's not frowned upon more than it is. So long as we all continue to share our knowledge and findings with each other I am sure people on this forum will continue to improve and push forward. A little bit of truth is always helpful and with the sharing community we have here I am sure we are all getting a steady dose of it via great threads like this one.

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Re: The End of Overeating AND The NoSDiet

Post by wosnes » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:11 am

Bushranger wrote:It's a sad indictment against society that it's not frowned upon more than it is.
I think we're assuming that more people know about this than probably actually do. We're obviously interested in this, but not everyone is. Those of us who are interested are going to have to step up to the plate not only for ourselves, but for those who aren't interested.

I imagine if the disinterested were told this was at the root of their weight and health problems, their interest might be piqued for a moment or two. But only a small number will make changes because of it.


Mark Bittman had a blog entry on Bitten last week about convenience food:
http://bitten.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07 ... 1#comments

Here's one of the comments:
bookseller wrote:I think there’s another group of convenience-food users who are being overlooked here: Those who don’t really care much. I know this is heresy for many of the posters here — including me — since by reading and responding to this blog, we’re identifying ourselves as people who are Into Food. But not everyone is. I remember getting enormously irritated, some years ago, when I read, in Amanda Hesser’s “Cooking for Mr. Latte,†about her enormous frustration with the fact that her grandmother, on a trip to Italy, refused to sit down for the multi-course, multi-hour lunches that are traditional in Italy, opting instead to sightsee and go to museums. Ms. Hesser seemed unable to grasp the fact that, given a finite amount of time, some people put non-food-related activities at the top of the agenda.

My friend M is among them. She likes food, she recognizes and appreciates the difference between good food and mediocre food, but she doesn’t really care much about it. She doesn’t dream up menus, she is bored rather than inspired by farmers’ markets, she finds cooking to be an irritating waste of time that she could otherwise spend more happily or productively. She buys a fair amount of organic this and that, “natural†whatnot, because she adores her kids and has absorbed the belief that those things are better for them. But chances are, it’s organic boxed mac’n'cheese, or all-natural spaghetti sauce in a jar, And I don’t fault her for that, anymore than she faults me for spending hours and ridiculous amounts of money sourcing the ideal firm-ripe white peaches and making little jars of chutney. People have different priorities.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by Thalia » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:45 pm

I think for a lot of people, worrying so much about food quality and "real" food is seen as a form of snobbery, and vaguely un-American. What, you're too good for Campbell's Cream of Mushroom Soup and instant pudding mix?

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Post by wosnes » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:32 pm

Thalia wrote:I think for a lot of people, worrying so much about food quality and "real" food is seen as a form of snobbery, and vaguely un-American. What, you're too good for Campbell's Cream of Mushroom Soup and instant pudding mix?
It certainly is and if that's the case, I'm a food snob. Unfortunately, most people don't see -- and possibly don't care -- that those foods are behind our problems with cancer, diabetes, various forms of cardiovascular disease as well as allergies, asthma, ADHD and autism, not to mention obesity. The more we've used those foods, the more problems we've had.

Check out the comments to this recipe:
http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2009 ... /#comments
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by Thalia » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:56 pm

Wow, those comments got nasty! And yeah, that is the perfect illustration of the phenomenon.

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Post by Bushranger » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:30 am

wosnes - I think most people do actually at least kind of know about it but just don't care. The person in that quote is a perfect example. Honestly, what rock would someone have to be living under to not have an inkling Maccas was bad for you?

Count me a food snob then. I'm definitely getting worse as I age too. :) Don't get me wrong, I'll eat whatever gets put in front of me at a friend’s house for dinner (within reason) but at home my wife and I have significantly reduced packages and cans in our house. Our salt is that stuff from the Tibetan plateau, nice and pink and ultra mineral rich. We have loads of fresh and frozen veggies but no tins of it. Bread is a no artificial stuff loaf from a more specialised baker instead of a big supermarket. Beans are all dry beans we soak ourselves. Etc.

The part I find most interesting in all this though is our food budget hardly moved with all these changes. I thought it would be way more expensive to get away from the cheap junk. If people knew that perhaps they wouldn't have such an issue with it?

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Post by harmony » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:40 am

I think in the case of Edna Mae's cabbage recipe made with Cheese Whiz, people seemed to have strong memories of the dish. It would be pretty hard to get the same taste/memory from the dish without the Cheese Whiz. So, insulting the Cheese Whiz is like dissing all of the grandmothers who used it. (I wonder if the grandmothers would be as loyal to Cheese Whiz?)

According to my grandmother, Cheese Whiz was dirt cheap way back when. People used Cheese Whiz because it was cheaper than real cheese at the time. It is definitely not cheaper anymore.

I, myself, do not have any emotional connection to cheese whiz. I didn't even know what Cream of Mushroom soup was for before I met my mother-in-law. I do know that it is hard to reproduce their taste and texture. The homemade versions always seem to be missing something.... (msg maybe? :D)

I thought it interesting that an author of a cookbook in the early 1930's (I think) warned people of using man-made ingredients like artificial vanilla. The food industry obviously didn't agree.

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Post by Bushranger » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:25 am

harmony_55805 wrote:I thought it interesting that an author of a cookbook in the early 1930's (I think) warned people of using man-made ingredients like artificial vanilla. The food industry obviously didn't agree.
The food industry didn't agree because it's much more profitable to sell a branded product then something natural that you can't own under a brand. McSomebrand Apple Sauce makes a lot more cash for a company then selling apples and telling people to make their own apple sauce with them. Whenever anything is an industry its primary goal is to make money, everything else comes second.

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Post by wosnes » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:39 am

I think what concerns me most is that Big Food has as much influence over nutrition/nutrition education (and therefore what we learn from nutritionists/dieticians) as Big Pharma does over medicine.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by winnie96 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:48 pm

wosnes wrote:I think what concerns me most is that Big Food has as much influence over nutrition/nutrition education (and therefore what we learn from nutritionists/dieticians) as Big Pharma does over medicine.
Wosnes, I totally agree -- I had been aware of the Big Pharma thing, but these boards and books like "The End of Overeating" and "In Defense of Food" have made me much more aware of how pervasive the influence of Big Food is in the USA. Pick up any magazine at the check out in your grocery store and you'll be reading "diet" articles pandering to the advertisers -- Big Food!

I don't think it's snobby to want good health via nutritious, natural eating, although I know some people do have a "holier than thou" attitude about it. I feel so much better since I've started cooking "real" foods instead of relying on frozen dinners and processed/packaged everything else. But to get to this point, I've really had to take a new view of the propaganda that had been driving my food choices for a long, long time.

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Post by harmony » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:12 pm

I have read "The End of Overeating" and it changed the way I think about eating out. Now to me, eating at Applebee's or Chili's is no better than going to McDonald's or cooking up a frozen meal (since that is what they are basically doing for you). The only advantage is that they clean up after you.

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Post by wosnes » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:47 pm

This comes from http://easygourmetdinners.com/ and is pretty much how I cook:

Our recipes do NOT use processed foods, with the exception of

canned (tinned) tomatoes and sauce in winter (unless you freeze your own - instructions provided)
red and white kidney beans and chickpeas
tuna
olives, capers, and other condiments
occasionally other items... puff pastry, pimientos, etc.

The recipes DO use lots and lots of fresh, seasonal, and (we hope) local produce
I don't cook "gourmet" dinners! Just simple, everyday food.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by Bushranger » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:20 am

I posted a link to a doco about similar Big Food issues in a thread a little while ago. I urge everyone to view it. Was a real eye opener to me.

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5264

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Post by wosnes » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:42 am

Bushranger wrote:I posted a link to a doco about similar Big Food issues in a thread a little while ago. I urge everyone to view it. Was a real eye opener to me.

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5264
It's incredible -- amazing how they've pulled the wool over our eyes (though I have to say I think the wool's been pulled over some of the politicians eyes, too) and then want to blame us for poor choices. Change certainly isn't going to come from the "experts" or the government. It will come from ordinary citizens.


The whole thing is available as a DVD, too.

Michael Pollan is right; we can't address the healthcare issues in this country without addressing our diet/food supply.

I'm going to see Food, Inc. this weekend.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by Thalia » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:53 pm

I just (finally) read In Defense of Food this weekend. One thing that I thought was interesting, and encouraging, he says is that if you wanted to opt out of the corporate "food" chain 15 years ago, you really had no alternatives. Now, it has become fairly easy because of the proliferation of farmer's markets and bulk grain bins, and the higher demand for grass-fed and unconfined animal products.

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Post by wosnes » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:12 pm

I'm currently reading Real Food by Nina Planck. Very interesting.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by wosnes » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:48 pm

"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by BrightAngel » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:30 pm

wosnos,
Thank you for providing those links. Image
I very much enjoyed reading those articles
.
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Post by kccc » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:20 pm

Finally got around to looking at this...

The salt/fat/sugar combo does seem to be powerful. However, it hit me that, when applied to REAL food, it can work in our favor.

Since starting No-S, I've noticed that a little cheese or some nuts with a meal really helps with satiety, and fruit tastes very sweet when I'm not eating a lot of sugar. I love fruit/nuts in oatmeal, or on a salad.

I used to avoid nuts/cheese in particular (and a lot of other foods) because I tended to avoid fat in general... and I didn't think I could eat those foods in moderation. I think that's why I was so hungry so often - that sort of deprivation is a "set-up" to go to the "bad" foods that are chock-full of that stuff.

But NORMAL amounts of fat/salt/sugar, eaten in real food, are so satisfying that they almost inoculate against the excesses of "food products."

For me, anyway. YMMV - if there's one thing I've learned, it's that people's experiences with food/weight vary a good bit.

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Post by Thalia » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:10 pm

Oh yes, cheese and nuts and chocolate are all wonderful and delicious. And butter and olive oil.

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Post by wosnes » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:06 pm

Thalia wrote:Oh yes, cheese and nuts and chocolate are all wonderful and delicious. And butter and olive oil.
Agreed!
KCCC wrote:But NORMAL amounts of fat/salt/sugar, eaten in real food, are so satisfying that they almost inoculate against the excesses of "food products."
Yes! Yes!
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by flightisleavin » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:41 pm

wosnes wrote:
Thalia wrote:Oh yes, cheese and nuts and chocolate are all wonderful and delicious. And butter and olive oil.
Agreed!
KCCC wrote:But NORMAL amounts of fat/salt/sugar, eaten in real food, are so satisfying that they almost inoculate against the excesses of "food products."
Yes! Yes!
It is the all or nothing mentality that diets have that make them so hard to stay on. Then there is the guilt if you eat fat or sugar in any form.

Yesterday I made a meal that would usually set me off on 2nds and even 3rds which was a roast chicken with gravy and mashed potatoes, green beans, all made from scratch. That is true comfort food for me and what I grew up with. Well I hesitated to make the gravy because I must admit I love it but I did anyway (we all know it is fat and flour). I stuck to the No S principal and had a little bit of gravy on the potatoes and roast right out of the oven. One small plate. I did not go back for seconds but at the same time I realized I also did not pass up a favorite meal. I did not feel guilty about eating it nor did I "blow"the no S plan. I had this thought that is what it is all about. Eating normally and moderately, neither stuffing nor denying yourself.

Also I don't know about anyone else but I can never buy into the theories that if you avoid all carbs your hunger goes away. It never has for me.
Starting date: June 22, 2009. Starting wgt: 220. Goal 120. Current weight: 198. Mindset: Celebrating moderation.

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