OK after 3 months on NoS I've decided to do a low-carb diet.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:46 pm

Hi everyone,

I've been coming to this forum often since March. I think NoS is THE most sensible & normal nutrition plan I've ever found & I'm so happy I've found it. Here's a bit about me (for those who haven't read any of my threads before). I'm a (relatively) new mother; my boy is now almost 1 year old. I still haven't lost all the 'baby weight' (plus quite a bit from before) so since spring I've been really thinking that I want- finally!- to lose this extra weight. As I said I had a bit more weight than I wanted before too, so that makes it- all in all- about 15 to 20 kilos that I want to lose.

I've been following the plan very carefully since May 1 (& on & off since March). Not snacking & no sugar, in particular, have become second nature to me (even for just this 1 thing, I'm so grateful). S days have been a problem, and seconds have occasionally been a (small) problem. But all in all I've been very happy with how I've done. Unfortunately in these 3 months I just maintained my weight- to the gram- and lost absolutely nothing. Not sure why! I've written here about this before & have got lots of wonderful advice.

Then at the end of June (its now been 4 weeks) I took up jogging alternating it with walking (1 min jogging / 1 min walking for 20 mins every day). I increase the jogging every week by about 10 seconds. This has been wonderful & a huge, important change for me, and it was the main thing people advised me about (to take up exercise) Still no weight loss though!!

So at some point, about a week ago, I talked to a few friends about the fact that, even though I've been trying, I haven't lost any weight. They all recommended going on a low-carb diet. So- against most of my beliefs- I've started low-carbing- I follow the India & Neris idiot proof diet, but really, anyone could have done-, and yes, I've seen weight loss already (I'm on day 5 & have lost almost 2 kilos).

Now, here's a few points:
--I don't believe in crash diets
--I don't believe in quick weight loss
--I don't believe in 'magic' solutions

However, I do find myself- finally!- feeling encouraged & happy that I'm starting to lose weight. I do think I have a too-many-carbs problem & perhaps these first 2 weeks (induction phase) of the low-carb diet, which are particularly brutal, will help me shift some weight & gain confidence & optimism.

Here's one question; after the initial 2 weeks, all low-carb diets suggest slowly adding carbs back in which I plan to do. If you were in my position, what would you do? Would you gradually ease yourself back into NoS, after some initial weight loss? Would you stick to the low-carbing a bit longer? In general what's your advice on my situation?

(I haven't abandoned the NoS principles by the way, except obviously the S days!)

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Post by **reinhard** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:21 pm

Hi Cassie,

I'm sorry vanilla no-s didn't do the trick for you by itself, but it's great that you have the habits in place and want to build on them.

The first thing I have to say is probably not what you want to hear: if you're eating and moving moderately now, maybe you weigh what you "should." I know it would be nice to be thiner, but is it worth extreme behaviors? Could you even pull off extreme behaviors long term without them backfiring?

That said, it's certainly possible to take additional moderate steps. It's not like no-s is the ONLY form of moderate eating out there.

I think the details of no-s are great, but the idea behind the details is the really important thing: systematic moderation. If you can achieve that by some other or slightly different means, that's just as good.

I don't think it should be too difficult to layer low carb elements on top of no-s, the trick is to do it in a moderate way. I'm not sure about the details of what you're doing, but I'd suggest maybe adding some well defined additional restricted "S" that is a problem food for you.

I wouldn't ditch the S-days, though... I know they're hard to learn. But practice makes "good enough." At the very least I'd keep a single S day a week. But of course, you've got to do what you think is best.

And I'd be careful about "phased" approaches, both to diet and exercise. With exercise, you might get fitter as you keep doing it, but you're never going to have more time at your disposal. So you might want to consider making the time parameter a constant. Progress with intensity. With diet, thinking in terms of "phases" is often a way to kid yourself into doing something unmaintanable. (I don't mean to be a downer, "often" isn't "always," just a heads up.)

Best of luck combining low carb with no-s and let us know what you wind up doing and how it works!

Reinhard

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:30 pm

Cassie wrote: Now, here's a few points:
--I don't believe in crash diets
--I don't believe in quick weight loss
--I don't believe in 'magic' solutions

So, then, why is it you're doing low carb? I don't think low-carb is anything but a crash diet with promises of quick weight loss.

Personally, I'd find a way I can eat for the rest of my life, stick to it and realize that weight loss may be slower than I'd like.

If it's NOT coming off, I'd look at what I'm eating and try to determine if I'm eating too much or too much of more calorie dense foods. In addition, I'd look at getting more exercise.

I'm with Reinhard -- I wouldn't give up the S days.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:27 pm

Hi again & thanks for your comments:

First, something that Reinhard said:

reinhard wrote: The first thing I have to say is probably not what you want to hear: if you're eating and moving moderately now, maybe you weigh what you "should." I know it would be nice to be thiner, but is it worth extreme behaviors? Could you even pull off extreme behaviors long term without them backfiring

No, I'm pretty sure I need to lose weight & it's not just me being paranoid & wanting to be over-skinny. I'm definitely about 10 kilos overweight. And even with 10 kilos less I still won't be 'thin'. These 'overweight' 10 kilos have piled up in the last 4-5 years very gradually, due mainly to increased portions & too many carbs (especially deserts & pasta). Things got really bad when I got pregnant, & after, when I was eating muffins like there was no tomorrow

. Just to give you an idea, last month 2 people congratulated me on my new pregnancy

. Obviously, I'm not pregnant...

As for some of the other points raised. I think after 3 months of trying, I needed something strict enough to get me going. Its a matter, at this point, of just wanting to lose that first difficult few kilos, getting a few compliments, & feeling a bit more optimistic. Its difficult to stick to something for 3 months (like I've done, with only very very few slip-ups) & not get results. I'm not stupid enough to believe 2 weeks will do it. But I am taking it a bit at a time (aka the 'phase' approach), safe in the knowledge that I can return only to NoS if things get bad.

I think if I were to have S days at the moment (at least for these first 2 weeks) the diet simply wouldn't work. What I'm doing (I admit with embarrassment) is close to the Atkins diet, at least for the first 2 weeks. So I really don't think S days factor in this kind of (strict) diet...

I do believe I have a problem:
-with portion control
-with too many carbs (sugary desserts & pasta or bread & cheese)

...which is why I thought, from all strict diets out there, a low-carb one might work.

For now, its been working ok. I don't feel hungry & I've finally started to lose. I really do believe that I've weaned myself off too much sugar with NoS for 3 months, which means now I can follow the low-carb diet with not too much difficulty. Also, the 3 meals a day rule has been a saviour.

If anyone has any advice / ideas / info about combining NoS with a low-carb approach, let me know how you did it / how you'd do it.

masher · Post by **masher** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:10 pm

Cassie,

I feel for you. I have gained some weight with No S. Before No S, I had been eating mainly fish, vegetables, meat, eggs, dairy, nuts and berries with some Ryevita and dark chocolate for the last 5 years. Real food always. Most would call this a low carb diet. I am slim, 50 and fit. I have maintained this weight loss of over 2 stone or 30 or so pounds. So why change after 5 years of success?

I wanted a bit more flexibility without going off the rails and without gaining weight. No S makes sense to me as it is very similar to the unconscious approach my slim French friends have to enjoying food. I am a newcomer to No S having only started in June, so I hesitate to say too much but I was a Registered Dietitian and worked in a hospital as a clinical dietitian for years.

I gained weight at first with No S, despite being sensible. My meals are logged under my name, for all to view! I now reduce my bread to one or two slices a day and focus on vegetables, fish (primarily), meat, salads, and mostly berries AND:
No Sweets
No Snacks
No Seconds

Except (sometimes) on S days and the weight is coming off. Hurrah!

Not all bodies are the same. Some of us just cannot tolerate much carbohydrate without insulin spikes and weight gain. I envy those individuals whose bodies are more forgiving - mine is just NOT! I still think No S works, because it is simple, provides structure and is socially acceptable. I am combining the 2 approaches (few starches and No S) and monitoring everything I eat to see what works. In fact, Starches might be just another S. I also realise that hunger is not to be feared; and having a good appetite is a great thing.

I hope this is of some use to you.

I am fighting the same battle, and recently won a small skirmish.

Best of luck,
Masher

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:30 pm

Masher, thanks so much for your post. It gives me so much courage. I really agree with you, that unfortunately not all bodies are the same. My partner eats bread & chocolate all the time, with no constraint, and yet feels great & has always been very very thin (I have to admit though that he doesn't overeat in general, which I sometimes do).

I have polycystic ovaries- this has been diagnosed- & I've been told that that creates issues with those insulin spikes which you mentioned. I also have a completely underactive thyroid which is under control for years with thyroxin but I'm now starting to get paranoid whether my thyroid medication needs a bit of fine-tuning. I have been taking the exact same dose for years so I seriously doubt I have a problem, but just to be on the safe side- and particularly because the weight has been so hard to shift- I've scheduled a blood test soon to check it out.

Anyway, I don't want to find excuses for myself nor do I want to demonize any particular food group! Its just that I'm realizing gradually that for me- and obviously this is not the case for everyone- lots of changes need to be made in order to achieve sustainable weight loss.

(And of course, after the weight loss- if I ever get there!- there's the other matter, even more important, of maintainance)...

But Masher, your story has given me lots of hope about maintainance too!

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:45 pm

I'm sorry. PCOS can make it very difficult to lose weight -- I think that's the culprit right there.

sophiasapientia · Post by **sophiasapientia** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:54 pm

Cassie -- My sister has PCOS and a few specialists have recommended that she go on a LC eating plan.

I actually lost the bulk of my excess weight (70+ lbs) a number of years ago through regular, consistent exercise and a LC eating plan. I was on the Carbohydrate Addicts Diet which has some similarities with No S. Basically I ate 3 moderate meals a day with no snacking or seconds. I was allowed some carbs with one meal each day ... So basically 1 s treat each day rather than 2 S Days. I followed the same plan while maintaining. It was doable.

Good luck!

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:20 pm

Hi Shannon & Thalia,

Thanks for your posts. Fortunately, I don't have very bad PCOS although I do most definitely have it (and in the past it has stopped my period but just for a few months). Just to put it into perspective, I conceived easily & had no troubles in my pregnancy (I say this because I know that some PCOS sufferers have problems with conceiving). I'm also not obese, but am definitely overweight & seem to struggle loads to shift even a tiny amount of weight.

I'll take on board your advice. What I'll do is continue what I'm doing (the low-carb regime) but try to gradually introduce some 'treats', perhaps after the first 2 weeks. Believe it or not, on the diet I'm following (very similar to Atkins) not even fruit is allowed in the first 2 weeks

which frankly I think is a bit mad. After these 2 weeks pass, I'll continue gradually re-introducing controlled amounts of carbs. The idea of carbs only in 1 main meal sounds good & makes sense for me. And also fruit for breakfast though (breakfast seems a bit horrible on a low-carb diet, at least on the Atkins phase I'm at at the moment!!)

I still want to manage, long term, to incorporate my NoS principles with a relatively healthy low-carb approach. Hope I can manage it!

StrawberryRoan · Post by **StrawberryRoan** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:44 pm

I don't see a problem eating three low carb meals a day.

Lots of options out there,

do whatever works for you.

Hang tough.

Berry

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:22 pm

Two kilos in five days is pretty amazing. I can understand the thrill. I am a little concerned about what will happen when you start adding back in carbs, though.

I'm not familiar with the diet. I assume it has a maintenance phase. Can you go straight to maintenance (which I assume is low carbish without being strictly low carb) and see how you do on that before making heroic attempts to stick to a diet? Since the diet is set up to maintain a slimmer, trimmer you, I am thinking you will still lose weight, albeit more slowly.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:58 pm

Following a diet plan isn't just about how much weight you lose. It's about how much it consumes your life (especially your social life) and how enjoyable it is.

Kathleen

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:01 pm

It's probably important to point out that low carb is way different than No Carb. . . Healthwise, (not necessarily weight-loss wise) it's clear that whole grains and complex carbs are better for our digestion and arteries, etc. over simple carbs/sugars. It could be be that since your body hasn't reacted as you would have liked that monitoring what kinds of carbs you're taking in may do the trick.

For example, I am really limiting white pasta and breads and potatoes more than I have to on No S. . . because of other health related issues and making sure I include plenty of fruits and veggies. . . which of course are carbs--but it's hard to conceive that regular servings of those could be detrimental.

Also now that you've begun jogging/walking, that should help as well. That too takes a while to start to translate into weight loss.

You said:

I do believe I have a problem:
-with portion control
-with too many carbs (sugary desserts & pasta or bread & cheese)

So maybe you could really work on the portion control (like the smaller plates others have suggested, for example) and pay careful attention to the size of your servings of pasta and bread (or add more whole grains), that might be the only kind of "carb" control that you need to get the scale moving.

One last thought--of all the people I've ever known --and that's a lot--who lost weight on Atkins or other true low carb plans, (including me!) nearly all ended up regaining that weight relatively quickly when we tried to go back to regular eating . I am positive that the "eat all the meat & cheese you can stuff in your face" mentality I derived from Atkins is what put me in the fix I'm in today. What was I thinking?! The only exception I can think of is a friend who lost over 250 pounds counting carbs over a period of several years. . . and she still counts carbs every single day. She firmly believes she will never be able to "eat" like the rest of the world--ever. Of course, I think she'd be ok on No S but she has been through so much that she's terrified to take the chance.

So all the best to you--but do re-read your posts--when you talk about how you admit with embarrassment that you're doing something akin to Atkins and other things you said that imply that you really aren't sure this is the way to go. Sometimes listening to ourselves is the best answer! Good luck!

Marianna · Post by **Marianna** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:38 am

You know, I am in a similar boat, and have made an accomodation that I think is working for me--Still No S--but lowcarb for both breakfast and lunch--and then moderate carbs for dinner. For the time being, I am not doing much "S" eating, unless I am out for dinner and am offered something--and I too am seeing some benefit from doing this. I lost weight doing low carb, but I knew I couldn't go back to strict low carb--it would just be an exercise in frustration--so this is my compromise.

I tried vanilla No S, and had some wild S days--and actually gained some weight. I seem to have dropped the weight with my lowcarb day/moderate carb dinner plan. Just a thought--some of us have age/weight/metabolic problems that require a tweak to actually lose weight--some of us can do that with vanilla no S-- No matter what food plan I choose, eating three meals and no snacks has been incredibly liberating. I no longer obsess about food--that is such a huge accomplishment for me--

Marianna

Bushranger · Post by **Bushranger** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:01 am

What type of foods were you eating on vanilla NO S?

The primary reason low-carb diets work is because people have removed copious amounts of refined simple carbs in the form of breads and starches. It's not so much that low-carb is best, it's more a case of overly high-carb is bad.

An extreme example could be someone who ate bread, pasta, potatoes as the main part of every meal. That's an easy way to pack in a lot of calories and it's no wonder people gain weight on it. Yet technically this kind of eating would fit within NO S guidelines, but obviously it's not healthy to consume that quantity.

Nichole · Post by **Nichole** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:58 pm

Low carb as in replacing some of your breads and pastas with veggies is good. No carb is nearly impossible. I say go for it. Introduce more veggies, maybe eat one or so carb-less meals, and you'll lose weight. But cutting out it all is too hard to sustain, especially if you want to have a social life, but I don't think that's what you are saying.

Marianna · Post by **Marianna** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:51 pm

for me on vanilla no S, breakfast would be a nonfat plain yogurt mixed with cottage cheese, bran cereal and fruit. Lunch would be a sandwich and fruit. I gained weight. I am hypothyroid (medicated) and menopausal--I don't think what happened to me would happen to the normal average person.

Now breakfast is a veggie omelette and lunch is a salad with tuna and egg or similar. Dinner is still a nice balance of veg, carb and protein--last night for example, grilled chicken breast, a lovely salad and an ezekial english muffin with some stewed prunes on the side. So this is what my mod has had to be. Again, I think that there are only a few of us who are in this boat, but it can be a real authentic problem. I did regular No S for three months. other then my S days, I was a responsible eater. It is ok to have to do a mod if there is an individual need for one.

Marianna

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:16 pm

I think one can use No S principles with any kind of diet.

The basic plan is simply eating limited amounts at limited times.

People modify No S "vanilla" all the time.
One can easily modify it to specifiy a special type of food one chooses to eat.
For example; many choose to specify "whole" or "natural" or "organic" or "vegan"foods etc.
The same kind of choice can be made about low-carb foods,
or low-fat foods, or etc.

In some cases, (like with me) 3 meals, becomes 5 "meals"
using very small plates at the normal 3 meal times,
and having an additional 2 very tiny meals,
but giving them the label "meal" instead of "snack".

People label and consider different things "sweets";
"S" days are "sometimes",
and many successful "NoSers" treat many "S" days just like "N" days,
with the occasional addition of an extra treat or two.

Even a strict "vanilla" NoS varies between individuals,
everyone takes the plan and adapts it to his or her own body
and lifestyle.

Everyone needs the freedom to choose what to put in his/her body,
and one of the great things about the No S plan, is
that it is adaptable.

So, go for it, and Good Luck.
If you find Low-carb with No S doesn't do it for you,
then find something else to do with No S,
OR go back to "vanilla" No S.
Your choice.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:48 pm

This is all so very very interesting, thanks a lot you guys!

I have to say, you've given me courage to continue... and I'm more certain than I ever was that NoS is my plan for life, and the no-carb thing which I'm trying now is (as I see it) part of my NoS effort. Yes, it's a separate diet I'm doing, that's clear at the moment, but it's amazing how I'm sticking to my NoS rules & haven't deviated from them. The only difference being at the moment that I don't have S days (and I know that's VERY important & that I should be giving myself a day off once in a while, but I really really want to start losing first, and then I'll think about adding S days back).

To answer some of your questions.

I used to eat a very HIGH carb diet, I think. My meals now, on the low-carb diet, are definitely not non-carb. I have salads & veggies with every meal, and those form the biggest part of my plate. And then things like eggs, mozzarella, turkey fillet or other meats / fishes etc. From the 3rd week I'll add berries twice a week. Then starchy veg twice a week etc. So no, I don't think I'm doing a non-carb diet, just an incredibly low-carb one (at the moment) which gradually gets modified back to normal eating.

I know that the biggest problem is maintainance & I'm determined to use this forum as much as I can in a few weeks time when the first pounds drop...

Thanks in particular to Marianna who's in the same boat

. It's true I think that some of us find it incredibly hard to lose weight for hormonal / metabolic / whatever else reasons... and lowering carbs seems to do the trick.

guadopt1997 · Post by **guadopt1997** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:51 pm

Of the weight I've lost on no-S (25-30 pounds), 14 or so were the result of low-carb eating (fish, eggs, chicken, meat and lots and lots of vegetables and salads, a little cheese) for 4 weeks when I first started no-Sing on Jan 28. On weekends, I would snack on macadamias and add berries to my meals.

I still need to lose/want to lose since I weigh 203-208 and am 5'8". I need to make healthier choices more often and get my S days under control. Plus I've had a few red days this month, so I've started another 21-day challenge.

So temporary low-carbing could work. Just make sure you stick to no-S if/when you start to get really sick of low-carbing. Then you stand a chance of keeping that weight off!

Bushranger · Post by **Bushranger** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:22 am

I've come to the conclusion that defining diets as high carb and low carb is a false representation of the facts. The real fact of the matter is that we (as a western society) are consuming way too many breads, pastas, potatoes and other starch based products which are also often laden with preservatives and additives.

If you looked at it from a purely nutritional and caloric perspective then it's a no-brainer to realise lots of fruit and veg and less breads is healthier than the other way around. The focus on high carbs and low carbs detracts from the real issue which is the caloric content and nutritional value of the foods.

Dolly · Post by **Dolly** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:45 am

I'm finding this line of discussion very interesting. I have been struggling with weight gain around my middle recently and I have read that this is related to age (sadly) but also to high carb intake so I have been looking more closely at the components of my diet. Undoubtedly I eat too many carbs and while I have been off work due to redundancy I have eaten way too many refined carbs even though my calorie intake has been much the same- boredom and stress have always been my eating triggers in that regard and I have had these in spades lately! Even last week on holiday I ate a lot of bread with my salads as I just love the stuff. I do think, quite honestly, that if I cut down on the refined carbs it would really make a difference but I am loathe to go down the LC route- it becomes a diet then and I have had enough of those- and I did low carb a while back-and as soon as I started to reintroduce carbs following Atkins (which India and Nerys is- make no mistake there!) the weight piled back on again. India is a journalist and from what I see, despite having written a successful diet book with her friend, has not in fact won the battle with her weight- so iit is another example that is just not the way to go in the long run. Fruit and veg are good for us, and white carbs just aren't except for an occasional treat. That is a lower carb lifestyle, not a low carb one. I think my No S Mod will be to cut down on the white carbs, and only have two S days max a week, so if I have a birthday or special day in the week then one of the weekend S days just has to go!
And exercise will make a difference. It certainly does for me.
Best
Dolly

winnie96 · Post by **winnie96** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:44 am

For me, I'd get nowhere if I regularly ate white bread, white pasta, and white potatoes, regardless of what diet I was on. On No-S, I have these white foods as S-Day treats. I don't call this "low-carb", though -- just an adjustment to the frequency and volume of foods that I know affect me adversely.

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:39 pm

These white carbs are the mainstay of my diet, and even though my weight is pretty okay, I'm still fighting/losing the battle with the roll of fat around my middle-aged middle. I guess there's a connection here, and I'm wondering if I can do anything about it. I'm going to stick with vanilla no-s for 100 days, though, before I try to add any mods. I like the idea above, about restricting them to s days. Something for me to consider for the next 80 days or so.

winnie96 · Post by **winnie96** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:16 pm

winnie96 wrote:On No-S, I have these white foods as S-Day treats.

Just to clarify: whole wheat bread & pasta, and veggies such as yams & rutabaga seem to be ok with me anytime, and they ward off any feelings of deprivation (although I don't eat a lot of the pasta). Also, I'm glad that it occurred to me to make the white foods into S-Day treats, as they are among my favorites, and it would be counter-productive to ban them entirely.

Jammin' Jan wrote:I'm still fighting/losing the battle with the roll of fat around my middle-aged middle ...

I can't say, however, that lowering the amount of white foods I eat has done much to stave off the "middle-age middle"! Alas!

Everyday Systems

OK after 3 months on NoS I've decided to do a low-carb diet.

OK after 3 months on NoS I've decided to do a low-carb diet.

Re: OK after 3 months on NoS I've decided to do a low-carb d

Be sure to re-read what YOU wrote!