WW vs No S

Therese Z · Post by **Therese Z** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:25 pm

A couple of you (whoops, I'm from the Chicago area, youze guyz) have mentioned Weight Watchers. That's the one real success I've had on weight issues in my life, and I am feeling kind of guilty about not going back to WW but doing this instead. For some reason, I just can't face the group meetings and the clapping and cheering, and I normally think that's wonderful.

Not that I'm judging the quality of this diet; I'm judging ME. I hope you are having real success on this plan, because it seems like a good mental place to be. So keep talking about your journeys because I have to read through them all to catch up with everyone.

~reneew · Post by **~reneew** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:37 pm

I was on Weight Watcher's for years... selections... fat and fiber counting... points galore... and yes, I did loose a lot but it taught me over all to eat more! I slowly gained and eventually gained it all back. I was eating a ton of free yucky food that wasn't satisfying at all. I can't eat like that forever. It taught me to continually be hand-to mouth and that is the root of my eating problems. Trust me... been there done that too!

No S is teaching me how to eat like normal thin people!!! It's healing from the inside and teaching me that I can wait until the next meal. That's normal and healthy! It is also way less stressful. No S gives me freedom from all of that counting.

Thalia · Post by **Thalia** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:47 pm

Oh, I have lost weight on Weight Watchers many times. But let's look at that statement -- if Weight Watchers was really a successful approach, I would only have needed to lose weight ONCE!

I really think the test of a way of eating is not how fast you lose weight -- it's whether it stays off. And Weight Watchers just leaves to unhealthy dieting rebound behavior for me, and I end up weighing more than I did when I started.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:41 pm

Thalia is absolutely right: maintainance of the weight loss is THE issue. And I do agree that WW is not good with that at all, as it doesn't really teach you how to change your habits.

Also, counting those points is not sustainable over the long run. I've tried WW 3 times (not for long, I have to admit). All 3 times the reason I stopped was that I was fed up of the point-counting. I'm a person who loves loves loves to cook & prepare meals, and figuring out what point-value each recipe had was so annoying after a while.

To me, it makes much more sense to get used to eating more sensibly, more healthily & in moderation over time, without obsessing about calories or particular food groups (even though I, at this very moment, am on a low-carb diet

...but that's another long story).

winnie96 · Post by **winnie96** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:47 pm

I lost 60 pounds on Weight Watchers and had kept it off for four years before discovering No-S last year. The WW plan worked very well for me, and I must admit I still go to a meeting every week (in my area they are lots of fun). But all the points counting was getting tedious, and the reliance on phony foods left me battling with hunger all the time. No-S has been such a breath of fresh air! Life is so much easier without the snacking, seconds, and sugar!

I don't think that No-S is incompatible with WW. However, for me, I have to ignore the WW advice on snacking and spend more time cooking real food rather than using their frozen foods. But I still follow their "healthy guidelines" for calcium, fruits & veggies, oil, etc.

Therese Z · Post by **Therese Z** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:49 pm

Iowa, California, New England, and look Ma, I'm talking to London! Wow!

I WANT this diet to work, perhaps that will make a difference. I WANT to not eat between meals, seems tidy and self-controlled. I WANT to eat one good helping of whatever I make, makes sense. I WANT to relax on weekends and socialize and therefore eat and drink, seems natural and appropriate.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:14 pm

Therese Z wrote: I WANT this diet to work, perhaps that will make a difference. I WANT to not eat between meals, seems tidy and self-controlled. I WANT to eat one good helping of whatever I make, makes sense. I WANT to relax on weekends and socialize and therefore eat and drink, seems natural and appropriate.

...that's a perfect description of NoS at its best. Yes, seems natural & appropriate

.

guadopt1997 · Post by **guadopt1997** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:01 pm

I've had a couple of big weight losses on WW. But the last time I was on (2007, lost 40), I felt I was eating too much food that wasn't real (those little WW cakes for example). I knew I should switch from "points" to core, but I'm not much into cooking so I didn't think that would work for me. Left WW and gained all the weight back and more.

maggie · Post by **maggie** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:01 pm

Therese Z wrote:Iowa, California, New England, and look Ma, I'm talking to London! Wow!

I WANT this diet to work, perhaps that will make a difference. I WANT to not eat between meals, seems tidy and self-controlled. I WANT to eat one good helping of whatever I make, makes sense. I WANT to relax on weekends and socialize and therefore eat and drink, seems natural and appropriate.

This sums it up perfectly. As Mimi says, get rid of the "diet head", just natural and appropiate.

Maggie

mimi · Post by **mimi** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:55 am

I WANT to not eat between meals, seems tidy and self-controlled. I WANT to eat one good helping of whatever I make, makes sense. I WANT to relax on weekends and socialize and therefore eat and drink, seems natural and appropriate.

Then...what you WANT is what you've FOUND! NoS!
As I previously told Maggie (and others!) I have found this to be the ONLY eating solution that has removed my *diet head*. The angst is gone, along with the constant head chattering, debating, guilt, and beating up - they all have ceased. What could be better than that? They have been replaced by a peaceful demeanor and a calm relationship with food. This part of NoS is the most important to me - the weight loss is wonderful too, don't get me wrong, but clearing out the diet personality means more.
I hope you find the same success Therese - and look! Now you're talking to Virginia!

Mimi

flightisleavin · Post by **flightisleavin** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:03 am

I went to a WW meeting around the time of Thanksgiving. I will never forget it. It was my first meeting.

It was like obsession central.

Now I know that WW does have success and many people like it as a long term solution so in that sense I think it a a good program. BUT all the discussions went like this: What can I eat for Thanksgiving, more importantly what CAN'T I eat, upset and anger at family members for not cooking low fat or using Splenda or no fat replacements, recipes for no fat/no sugar pumpkin pie (excuse me!), figuring out the points for the day, weighing in the following week, fear of weighing in, panic and anxiety over that holiday. Absolutely no joy in the day but angst over food. I thought this is not for me.

I knew I was overweight and wanted to lose it but there was no way I was going down angst road with the rest of WW crowd. I have several friends who do WW and they talk about food alot, mostly what they cannot have and plotting and scheming to keep the points low usually eating WW snacks but not having what they really want. It seems like a life of constant deprivation but ironically not one of discipline because if a "dieter" is constantly looking for "substitutes" they are still eating right?.

I think the idea of having exactly what you want but limiting the amount and how often is a hard concept if you feel like you need to perpetually diet.

enmilto · Post by **enmilto** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:27 pm

Hi,

I went to WW three times. Never lost anything more than 2 pounds and then gained them back, lost them, etc. I am only 5'3" and was only allowed 28 points this last time I was at WW the winter of 2008. I was always hungry. and finally left WW in January 2009 for good. I accidently found the Nos diet and even though I'm losing slowly, I know this is a diet for life. It's how the thin people eat. I am leaving for a nine day vacation on Monday and will be out to dinner every night. I plan to fill up my plate once and try to keep to this plan. I will keep in mind the extra two S days a month that we get in addition to the weekends.

Ellie

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:28 pm

I did WW three times after my son was born (mid-life, so my metabolism slowed at the same time - no fair!). I could lose on it, but I couldn't maintain on it. Takes more attention than I have in regular life.

Also, it makes "mental chatter" MUCH worse for me - the exact opposite of No-S.

My opinion of WW while I was doing it was that it was a good plan wrapped in over-zealous markeing crap. The basic info on calories, nutrition, and portion size was actually pretty solid - and I was amazed at how many people had no clue! The WW products were another matter, and I tried to avoid them. I don't do "low-fat food products" in general, and it was clear to me that the more fake food I ate the worse I did. (I have eaten some of that stuff in the past - mostly fake sweeteners - but over time have moved away from it. Thank goodness.)

Now I think the whole points system is totally crazy-making, but WW Core and No-S would actually "layer" fairly well. Not my choice at this time, though.

flightisleavin · Post by **flightisleavin** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:50 pm

I had read an article that 60% of the WW enterprise is based on people dropping out and coming back. Their marketing program is geared towards returning participants and not new recruits. So they make more money from people coming back to lose the weight they regained than their initial weight loss.

Their marketing strategy and advertisements are that it is real life and nothing is off limits yet when you read the diet plan it is not like that at all. When you count up the very measly points you are allowed for meals no wonder you want a WW dessert. You can never eat a piece of real cheese again. I will say though if you love skim milk and cereal it's easier to stay on. For me it wasn't just the point counting and their fake food products; it was the idea that fat is evil. It is a high carbohydrate very low fat diet plan which is hard to stay on because you constantly feel hungry - well at least I did.

minimizer · Post by **minimizer** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:48 pm

Winnie, I also still follow the WW guidelines for balancing nutrition--
fiber, healthy oils, calcium, protein, fruits and vegetables, limit
sugar & alcohol, vitamins, etc.
That's the best thing about WW, but many who participate
on the plan don't adhere to that part.
I think it's the most important part.
So that's why I am continuing to follow those guideline now as well.

flightisleavin · Post by **flightisleavin** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:25 pm

I guess it depends on what you are capable of sustaining for the long term. I do know people who have had much success with WW and are able to stay on it and enjoy the diet. I think tend they do better with no fat food or very low fat foods but the ability to eat sugar subsitutes to satisfy a sweet tooth it is a way of eating for them. If you can stay on it and maintain your weight then it is a good thing. I agree that their guidelines of eating fruits and vegetables and varying your food choices are good and portion sizes are really good.

Whenever I lower my fat down to a very fat program except for maybe 2 tsp of olive a day I find that it is simply too difficult to stay with the program. Then if I add in the sugar free stuff I feel hungry for some reason.

Here is a typical day's menu from the Core program. I found this very difficult.

B. Asparagus and bacon omelet (use cooking spray and Canadian bacon chopped). Sliced melon.

L: Stuffed red bell pepper. Made with tuna, fat free mayo and scallions.
Fat free sugar free chocolate pudding.

D: Sliced roast beef. Red potatoes drizzled with olive oil. WW dessert made with splenda.

Snacks for day: Tortilla chips with fat free salsa, reduced fat popcorn, grapes.

Except for the breakfast omelet and melon, dinner of roast beef and potatoes and the grapes for the snack, I found the diet is has way too much reliance on the fat free products, sugar free products made-with-chemicals subsitute foods that are big part of the program. If you look at carton of fat free sour cream it is not sour cream.

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:14 pm

I didn't realize that WW was high-carb/low fat. The McDougall Program, which I did for several years was the vegan version of this, then, and I understand quite well what flightisleavin says about always being hungry on a diet like that. I don't want to dismiss or disrespect the McD program because I did lose a lot of weight, maintain it for a long time, and it is very good food which got rid of several health issues for me, but I found I was eating all day, every day. There is a gluttony thing going on here that I dislike. On No-S, I am trying to keep many of the very healthy McD principles of eating, but not all of them. I use some margarine and olive oil and full-fat soymilk. I eat meat on the weekends when my husband and I go out to a restaurant. I find I am more satisfied, with none of the health problems returning, and able to calm down about food. Now that I have finally distanced myself from the McD plan, I am able to stick with No-S and find it to be a better deal all around.

StrawberryRoan · Post by **StrawberryRoan** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:28 pm

I think that over time one could incorporate the best from every plan and probably get back to where we were eating in the first place.....

I spent every summer with my grandparents who raised their own chickens, cows, pigs, etc as well as a vegetable garden and a huge orchard.

SOOO, there was meat at every meal but also lots and lots of fresh vegetables (or canned, if it were winter) and fruits.

Lots of homemade biscuits, cornbread, dinner rolls and yeast bread.

There was much more balance.

Almost every lunch and dinner table contained wilted lettuce, sliced tomatoes, green onions standing tall in a glass of icewater, cucumbers and sliced red onions in vinegar/sugar mix, snap peas, deviled eggs (from their own chickens of course)
corn on the cob, fried okra, pickled beets, green beans with new potatoes, etc. etc. etc. Seriously, every meal. I don't remember once eating just a sandwich or something - maybe later in the day with leftover ham or something from breakfast but lunch and dinner was always loaded down with garden vegetables. I can still see all the pretty bowls.

Not only was there usually a homemade cobbler or something but also always whatever fruit was ripe was ready to be picked and gobbled. No twinkies but we were free to grab some blackberries off the bushes as we ran by on our way to play. (all the cousins spent the summer at the farm and we thought we were "helping". Man, my grandparents must have been saints. )

SOOO even if one had a giant pork chop or a slab or meatloaf and grabbed a biscuit slathered with fresh honey and home churned butter, they were still eating well.

Trust me, people worked so hard that the thought that they would be concerned about points or carbs is laughable.

See

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:34 pm

Of course, we're much more sedentary now than our grandparents were. But I still think the balance you described above is important, not only for nutrition, but for satisfaction as well.

vmelo · Post by **vmelo** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:47 pm

StrawberryRoan wrote:I think that over time one could incorporate the best from every plan and probably get back to where we were eating in the first place.....

I agree with this. Over the years and years of dieting, I did manage to pick up some habits that are second nature to me now---e.g., drinking water rather than sodas, eating and actually enjoying whole grain products, fruits and veggies.

I'm sure that if I stick to No-S long enough, that its habits will become ingrained. My problem is patience---or lack of it. I'm so overweight now that I hate to think of staying that way for the time it takes me to start and fail and restart No-S and eventually lose weight on it. (That's just my problem, though. It's absolutely no criticism of the plan).

harmony · Post by **harmony** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:25 pm

Hey, Jammin Jan, I followed the McDougall diet for a year and lost a lot of weight too. Well, I was never 100%. I ate that way at home and just ate what was available when away from the house. I didn't mind the food, but the thought of being hungry ALL the time was overwhelming for me, so I never quite got back into it (I got pregnant and the cravings/morning sickness took over

.)

I did benefit quite a bit from learning to eat McDougall style. I learned to absolutely love vegetables. I learned that my son has problems with dairy, and my nephew who had the same problems (but worse, because he was older) also benefited. So, I do not regret the experience. I do enjoy only having to worry about 3 meals a day. I like not being a slave to the kitchen or worrying about what to do when I get hungry. I like being able to share foods with my family. I am enjoying living life without constantly planning my food.

I never got past constant planning with McDougalling. I was always trying to figure out the perfect system that I could do it long term without having to cook two meals for the rest of my life. With No-S, all I have to plan is when to have my meals and how to fill my plate. I'm still trying to figure out how to use all of the extra time I used to spend thinking about what I should eat next.

I might have to get a life or something. lol.