The Frustration of "Mental Chatter"

vmelo · Post by **vmelo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:29 am

I started No-Sing on Sunday (this is my third or fourth attempt within the past couple of years). I've been doing great so far. Today was a big challenge for me. I woke up hungry, but I waited until 8 to eat something (I usually like to wait a bit later). I had a banana with some peanut butter. I planned to take my husband to lunch, but he didn't get home until 1:00 and we didn't actually eat lunch until about 1:45. I was STARVING by then. Prior to lunch, I had this internal debate--"Should I eat a snack and just blow the day?" Then the reply: "So what if I'm hungry? I won't die if I don't eat." Fortunately, I was able to hold out---it is so important for me not to fail this time. Predictably, my lunch was calorie laden because I was so hungry: A fried Chilean sea bass sandwich, French fries, and a bit of cole slaw. I had just a plain yogurt with some blueberries and honey for dinner. So, overall, I was feeling pretty good that I didn't succumb to snacking.

But then I went to the gym to try a new aerobic class. I wore a shirt that was tighter than I normally do, and when I was taking this aerobic class, I looked so fat! My arms and stomach were jiggling around (sorry for that visual). All of a sudden, I just wanted to give up.

So many of you talk about No-S eliminating the "mental chatter" of diets, but I'm wondering if this will ever be the case for me until I lose the 30-35 lbs. that I need to.

mimi · Post by **mimi** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:43 am

I think what helped me the most was giving up all *diet* foods - all the sugarless, lo-cal, low-fat, no-fat stuff that I had been eating. I started eating real food again and enjoying it. That alone went a long way in helping me to ditch the diet mentality and head chatter that goes along with it. Knowing that NOTHING is off limits to me - not even sweets - went a long way in helping me to lose the chattering. Dieting, in the past, always made me feel like a freak because I had to eat special foods, or avoid foods altogether and explain why. Then I would begin to feel sorry for myself, blow the diet, feel awful, and beat myself up over it. I'd attempt to begin again - but end up falling into the same vicious circle. It was awful!
NoS has truly been a godsend for me in ridding myself of my *diet head* - I hope it will do the same for you vmelo. Make sure to begin with that you're eating enough to tide you over until the next meal. This will help to dull the feeling of needing to snack.
Good luck!

Mimi

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:56 am

Perhaps it would help to counteract the mental chatter with some back talk of your own. . . or things others have come up. . . look over the No S Catch Phrase Glossary thread: http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3883 There are so many gems there that something may strike a chord with you that you can turn into your mantra to help keep you on track.

I do empathize with you. Last night I went through probably a thousand family photos from the last thirty of so years for a family project I'm working on. It was so depressing to find all those cute skinny pics of me in my 20's at 100 pounds (!) then 30's at 120ish and 40's at 135-140 pounds-when I THOUGHT I needed to lose weight. OMG, now I'm nearly 60 and it's climbed to nearly twice my 20's weight! How DID that happen! We'll just have to hang in there and slowly take it off. It take 10 years to add the last 50 pounds!

Go back to that gym and wear whatever you want to that will keep you going! And no worries about having started No S several times. Just last night I was re-listening to one of Reinhard's podcast when he talked about Churchill's comments on success: "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." You haven't got near enough failures under your belt yet!

Good luck.

winnie96 · Post by **winnie96** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:56 am

I find that unless I'm doing a task that requires a lot of concentration, I always have "mental chatter" going on ... I would like to be able quiet my mind, so have been trying Meditation 101, not very successfully, but I understand that it can take some time before you "get" it (and keep up with a commitment to set aside time each day to practice!)

Given that I do have this chatter situation going on, I try to be very careful about jumping immediately on anything negative or poor-me-ish. After a lifetime of weight issues and diets, I know that nothing sabotages me more than running the "what's the use, you'll never succeed, just go to Mcdonald's" tape in my mind.

LA's suggestion to look at the No-S phrases to use instead is a good one as there are some great lines there. A line I use a lot is "just stop it -- go do something -- you know you are in a much better frame of mind if you get something done!" The "something" doesn't have to be a big deal project like sending men to Mars; it can be something as simple as dusting the living room or straightening up the house. Somehow, taking almost any positive action usually helps to shut off the negative chatter.

I'm more or less at the weight I want to be after losing 60 pounds almost 5 years ago, but alas, I can't say that the mental chatter has stopped. It's not nearly as bad as it was, but even with the peace of mind that the No-S plan brings, I still have those moments.

So I would say: try meditation if that's something you think you might be interested in, and don't fuss about the mental chatter -- just make sure it's not of the negative variety. Best wishes ...

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:36 am

With all due respect, I think one of your struggles is that you are still dieting and what you are dealing with is a bad case of Diet Head. A banana with peanut butter, and yogurt with honey and blueberries do not seem to be especially satiating meals. And I really didn't see anything wrong with your lunch, "calorie laden" though it may be. I think maybe part of you is still anxious about what you eat?

Getting rid of that anxiety is a great way to quiet the mental chatter. When it's time to eat, it's time to eat. I eat enough of what tastes good and after doing this long enough, I finally trust that this is what is going to happen at meal time. I don't really think about fat, carbs or calories when I eat.

Since lots of us are still extreme in how we view food, I know my last statement will be interpreted as I have a king sized order of french fries (extra salt!) for every meal. But no, I don't. And neither will you. I think we should all learn to trust ourselves a little more, give ourselves some adult responsibility in knowing what's best for ourselves.

vmelo · Post by **vmelo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:19 pm

Thank you all for your encouragement.

Thalia, I do need to look at the No-S glossary. I love the Churchill quote (he so quotable, isn't he?).

It's good to know that I'm not alone in this (although I don't wish it on anyone).

Blithe Morning wrote:With all due respect, I think one of your struggles is that you are still dieting and what you are dealing with is a bad case of Diet Head. A banana with peanut butter, and yogurt with honey and blueberries do not seem to be especially satiating meals. And I really didn't see anything wrong with your lunch, "calorie laden" though it may be. I think maybe part of you is still anxious about what you eat?

Getting rid of that anxiety is a great way to quiet the mental chatter. When it's time to eat, it's time to eat. I eat enough of what tastes good and after doing this long enough, I finally trust that this is what is going to happen at meal time. I don't really think about fat, carbs or calories when I eat.

Since lots of us are still extreme in how we view food, I know my last statement will be interpreted as I have a king sized order of french fries (extra salt!) for every meal. But no, I don't. And neither will you. I think we should all learn to trust ourselves a little more, give ourselves some adult responsibility in knowing what's best for ourselves.

Blithe, I know what you mean, but believe me, I normally do not eat so little for dinner; but I really wasn't all that hungry last night, so I ate something convenient.

However, I do think that calories matter, and I cannot completely wipe out the reality that if I were to eat the number of calories in yesterday's lunch everyday or for two meals a day, I would not lose weight. Simple math---that lunch yesterday was about 1000 calories, I'm guessing. I'm 5 ft. 3 and weigh 169 lbs., and according to most calculators I've previously looked at, I need only about 2100 calories a day to MAINTAIN that weight. I get what you're saying about trusting ourselves, but I don't think that everyone is capable of that or perhaps some people just need a lot longer to do that. I cannot trust myself to eat what feels right now because in past attempts at that, eating what felt right was always too many calories to lose weight. And I want to lose weight. It's both unhealthy and discouraging to be 170 lbs. at my height.

Thanks for all your input!

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:12 pm

vmelo wrote: However, I do think that calories matter, and I cannot completely wipe out the reality that if I were to eat the number of calories in yesterday's lunch everyday or for two meals a day, I would not lose weight. Simple math---that lunch yesterday was about 1000 calories, I'm guessing. I'm 5 ft. 3 and weigh 169 lbs., and according to most calculators I've previously looked at, I need only about 2100 calories a day to MAINTAIN that weight. I get what you're saying about trusting ourselves, but I don't think that everyone is capable of that or perhaps some people just need a lot longer to do that. I cannot trust myself to eat what feels right now because in past attempts at that, eating what felt right was always too many calories to lose weight. And I want to lose weight. It's both unhealthy and discouraging to be 170 lbs. at my height.

No S is a way to limit calories, however,
Counting Calories and the No S Diet are NOT mutually exclusive.
Look at some of the old Threads on this subject
and you will see that counting calories is Acceptable along with No S
IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO.

Another helpful thing is to become more aware of portion control.
Even one plate of food three times a day can be enough
to keep a small woman obese.

I recently bought a book on Amazon that explained how
one "serving" can actually be two or more "portions",
and gives size suggestions on actual "portions".
Hand sizes area different, but people with smaller hands need smaller portions.

Some examples:

One 5 oz bagel is five grain servings
One Bran muffin (purchased 6.5 oz) is six and one-half grain servings
The palm of your hand, or a deck of cards is one 3 oz serving of meat, fish, or chicken
1 piece the size of your finger, or 4 dice size pieces, or 1 slice the size of a cd, of hard cheese is one serving
1 single layer of mixed nuts covering just the palm of your hand (1/4 cup)is one serving.
One portion of veggies or berries the size of your tight fist (1 cup) is one serving
A portion of popcorn or cereal (1 cup) that fills your two hands cupped together or two handfuls is one serving.
1 teaspoon of butter or peanut butter is the size of your thumb tip or a standard postage stamp.
1 tablespoon of butter or peanut butter is 3 thumb tips
Also, 2 TB of peanut butter or butter is the size of a walnut in the shell.
1 oz of meat or cheese is the size of your thumb. or the size of a matchbook.
1 shot glass of salad dressing is 2 TB
1 standard 16oz water bottle cap of olive oil or salad dressing is 1 tsp.

For any interested, the book is entitled:
The Portion Teller, by Lisa R. Young, PH.D., R.D.

vmelo · Post by **vmelo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:43 pm

I get what you're saying, BrightAngel, and thank you for the information on portion sizes. What I'm trying to do with No-S is follow the principles, cutting down my portion sizes. This way, I'm cutting down the calories without actually have to count calories, which I abhor doing. I counted calories for 2 years straight, lost about 40 lbs., and maintained it for a year. But when I got a new, very stressful job, I didn't seem to have the energy or time needed to pay that much attention to my food consumption . . . and my current weight is the result. I don't want to go back to strict calorie counting because I know I won't be able to do it long term. This is why I'm just trying to follow No-S and still remain cognizant of the reality that calories do matter and I need to make smart choices. As you state in your post, three meals of day can keep a small woman obese.

sophiasapientia · Post by **sophiasapientia** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:00 pm

Kudos to you vmelo for hanging in there! I'm the same height as you and have been everywhere from 112-193 lbs in my adult life (at the moment I'm just under 134.) I do think the mental chatter subsides, especially as No S becomes an engrained habit of eating 3 yummy, moderate meals a day, exercising moderately and treating myself a little on the weekends. I have to remind myself that I didn't gain weight overnight and it won't come off overnight either. But it will and is coming off!

I know that counting calories (or fat or carbs or Points or whatever) works for a lot of people and that they are able commit to doing that for a lifetime. Personally, unless I had to for some medical reason, I really, really don't want to do that ... I would be miserable if I had to count everything that goes into my mouth and I don't think it is something I would want to do forever. With that said, I also know that, as someone who is 5'3", I can't eat a plate of food that looks like the one my husband eats and lose weight. I've opted to use 9" plates at home for lunch and dinner (I typically use a smaller plate or a bowl for breakfast) and that keeps things in check.

Mavilu · Post by **Mavilu** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:12 pm

Yep, I'm very small too, 5'3" as well and with a small frame and I know that sadly I need very little food.
I've reduced my portions dramatically (lunch is a pita with hummus and tomatoes on top with a glass of orange juice for examle) and even eating like that sometimes will keep me satisfied for longer than 4 hours.
And in fact, I'm finally losing weight stadily and non-stop, but nothing that impresses much, as I'm loosing like three pounds a month if that much, being over some 15 pounds overweight.

one "serving" can actually be two or more "portions"

Funny you say that, last night I wondered how much one of Trader Joe's slices of whole wheat weights, because we have a truly vintage toaster and the slices are almost too big to fit in the slots and it turns out that they are an ounce and a half.
Obviously, as everything grew, they had to make their slices bigger as to not be behing the competition.

What book is this, by the way?.

vmelo · Post by **vmelo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:23 pm

Mavilu wrote:Yep, I'm very small too, 5'3" as well and with a small frame and I know that sadly I need very little food.
I've reduced my portions dramatically (lunch is a pita with hummus and tomatoes on top with a glass of orange juice for examle) and even eating like that sometimes will keep me satisfied for longer than 4 hours.
And in fact, I'm finally losing weight stadily and non-stop, but nothing that impresses much, as I'm loosing like three pounds a month if that much, being over some 15 pounds overweight.

Mavilu, I'd be VERY satisfied with 3 lbs. a month, and I have 35 lbs. to lose. Congrats on your success!

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:27 pm

Mavilu wrote:What book is this, by the way?.

Portion and Serving sizes came from the book:
The Portion Teller, by Lisa R. Young, PH.D., R.D.

Mavilu · Post by **Mavilu** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:32 pm

Thank you very much Bright Angel!.

And you too, Vmelo!.

flightisleavin · Post by **flightisleavin** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:32 pm

Brightangel - thanks so much for that info.

When you actually look at portions it can make you realize how small they are. A thumbful? A deck of cards? A CD? Yet, that is exactly the size of a portion.

I can clearly see how I got up to my present weight. Even though I am not weighing or measuring my food putting it on one small plate helps me to realize that small portions are all I need. As long as I can have what I really want and not use "substitue foods" or "no fat/zero carb foods" I can easily deal with the smaller portions.

It is not like I will go hungry and everything in excess of those portion amounts will have no choice but to be stored somewhere convenient like my stomach or hips. Right now my waistline is my personal pantry that I carry with me everywhere I go in case I get stranded without food for several weeks. Even with the recession I still manage to find enough money for groceries so no chance I can use the generous fat stores I possess for famine.

Even a 6 foot strapping guy does not need 3 whoppers or a ten ounce steak or huge baked potato. It's eye opening when you look at true size of what is considered a portion.

vmelo · Post by **vmelo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:08 am

flightisleavin wrote:I can clearly see how I got up to my present weight. Even though I am not weighing or measuring my food putting it on one small plate helps me to realize that small portions are all I need.

This is so true. The odd thing is that I'm actually satisfied with a small portion as long as that's all I have in front of me. I never thought I was in the "clean plate club," but I suppose I was because it always bothered me to leave food on my plate. I realized one day that even when I get a treat from Starbuck's or somewhere that I'd be perfectly satisfied with 1/2 as long as I could give the other half to someone; if there's no one around, though, that other half calls my name until I eat it.