Why do so many people need external reasons to lose weight?

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Bushranger
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Why do so many people need external reasons to lose weight?

Post by Bushranger » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:30 am

I have noticed on the forums and people in my own life who often comment about needing some goal or reason to lose weight and without one they fall off the wagon, stop trying and put the weight back on again. This perplexes me somewhat as the reason to lose weight and be trim, lean and healthy should be one in the same. That IS the reason to lose weight.

I'm not trying to bad-mouth anyone; I am genuinely concerned for all these people who need some external motivator. It's like they don't value their own health and wellbeing enough to be a sufficient reason and therefore require something else. I think this lack of self worth is one of the main drivers for their weight and health problems in the first place. For example; I want to lose weight to be in the 21 day club. Or perhaps, I want to lose weight to fit into size XYZ dress. These are both great as milestones but they should never be the primary goal or motivation.

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Post by Nichole » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:39 am

Hmmm, I don't know. It just helps? I put on my facebook that I had lost 15 lbs and my best friend said "omg, I wish I could do that." I sent her a private message asking her why she can't- was it health reasons? And she said it's because "I dunno...Everytime I try to I gain more hence my weight gain in the first place!!! LOL I need to exercise that my problem!!!" then went onto say how she won't go to the gym alone, she said "!! I would do better if someone went with me cause I would feel obligated! ". But what about your obligation to yourself? I didn't respond to this b/c she's obviously not feeling very motivated.

My own motivation is that I just can't ignore all the studies have been done about how good exercise is for your health. I just can't. Once you get all that kind of information, you cannot go back. At least not me. This kind of turned into a ramble...
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Re: Why do so many people need external reasons to lose weig

Post by gratefuldeb67 » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:56 am

Bushranger wrote: I think this lack of self worth is one of the main drivers for their weight and health problems in the first place.
I completely agree mate.
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Post by Bushranger » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:57 am

Nichole, your friend is a good example of that external motivator requirement. Your motivations are the exact core of what I'm talking about though. Your own personal health and fitness, it doesn't need an external driver for you. That's a good place to be mentally. :)

I don’t see it as being any easier either, if anything it’s harder because those external drivers almost inevitably change or stop, hence the falling off the wagon.

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Post by Mavilu » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:17 am

Hmmm, well, first we have to consider that people that say that they want to lose weight for X reason might be pointing out just the most prominent reason or the one they first thought about, or the one that will effectively push them to do the effort, or simple social reasons such as to belong in certain categorie or who knows what else, can't really bunch them all together so easily.

Me, I am really healthy, all numbers are where they are supposed to be except for that pesky 25.6 BMI, exercise daily, never get a cold, I'm never in bed, if anything, my health complaints are all related to sport injuries, so I could say that my main goal is to keep being as healthy as I am right now and really, it is a goal, but I know that I can keep on being healthy more or less without much effort because I do naturally lead a healthy lifestyle (I just have a bit too much of the good stuff, haha!).
And I'm sure there are tons and tons of people in my exact same situation.
But when I want to fit better into my old and beloved chino pants (and I have many pairs), that's when I really get fired up.

You've got to get your motivation from whatever will motivate you, whether it'll be better fitting pants, an upcoming wedding, religious motivation, a desire to reign in what you consider an unhealthy eating pattern, a better exercising performance, to better play with your kids or a trip to the Bahamas.

That one says that the motive is other than health reasons it does not necessarily mean lack of respect for oneself or oneself's health or lack of thereof, I think.

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Post by midtownfg » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:10 pm

I agree with Bushranger. Goals centered around physical appearance always fail or lead to short-term success followed by a return to old habits. While I will admit to having a smaller pant size in mind as I continue to lose weight, my biggest goal is to be as healthy as possible while still enjoying an occasional treat. I want to avoid all health issues that could lead to surgery. Surgery scares me to death. Sometimes it is unavoidable so, if I were to be in an accident, I want to be as healthy and physically strong as possible to make recovery as easy as can be. Maybe goals based on the possibility that I might some day be in an accident aren't very logical either but.... My biggest motivator to drop weight was watching coverage of 9/11 on tv. Seeing all those people having to walk out of NYC because there was no other way home made me think about whether I could do that and how many fat people might just give up and sit down where they were. I also thought about the rescue workers. I don't want to be an extra burden on them just because I don't have the sense to take care of my weight issues. I also want to be physically fit enough to help others if I was in a situation like that. Can you tell that I spend way too much time worrying about things that will probably never happen? :roll:

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Post by mimi » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:10 pm

I agree with you Bushranger and others...when I was younger my weight-loss goals were always externally motivated based on pure vanity and physical appearance and were not successful long term.
As I've grown older, and particularly from watching my mother-in-law deal with serious health issues that have resulted from poor eating habits, excess weight, and lack of physical exercise, I have been more internally motivated by concerns for my own health and well-being.
Like you Midtown, I don't want to face surgery brought on by poor health habits. I do understand that some circumstances in life are not totally preventable (due to genetics, etc.), but I believe we owe it to ourselves and our families to do as much as possible to help ourselves.
And there's still a part of me that wants to lose weight solely for appearance sake - what can I say!

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Post by TingTing » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:38 pm

I have noticed on the forums and people in my own life who often comment about needing some goal or reason to lose weight and without one they fall off the wagon, stop trying and put the weight back on again. This perplexes me somewhat as the reason to lose weight and be trim, lean and healthy should be one in the same. That IS the reason to lose weight.
Ideally, we should all want to lose weight because it is more healthier. But people, being what they are, are not always logical. Sometimes we need something externally to happen to us to give us the good kick in the pants to start losing weight. My "kick in the pants" was that I developed plantar fasciitis (don't know if I spelt that right) on my right foot and it was really hurting me. The only way to lessen the pain was to lose weight. So I went ahead and lost weight. The pain in my foot went away and I was happy. Now I've gained weight again. I'm trying to re-motivate myself to lose weight. It's very difficult for me because I've always been a person with very little vanity and I've never done anything healthy beyond taking vitamins. I know I should lose weight because it's the healthy thing to do, but it's difficult. I will continue to find a way to motivate myself, but I think it will have to be something external.

My husband, on the other hand, is thin and healthy. He wants to remain thin because it makes him feel healthy and he can fit into his clothes he had since five years ago. He doesn't care about looks or what people say. He got thin because he wants to be healthy.

We want to lose weight for many reasons, and yes, the reason should be is that we want to be healthy. But in the real world, that's not always the case.

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Post by harmony » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:47 am

I do worry about people who want to be skinny at the risk of their health. People with eating disorders (anorexia, bulemia, etc.) generally have very warped ideas of why they should be skinny. I have known some young people with the mindset that they will live forever despite what they do to their bodies do some crazy stuff. But in general, I find little harm to have your inspiration to lose weight to fit into a dress or to avoid having to avoid a new wardrobe, or to just feel attractive as long as you choose a healthy way to do it. Most of the newer fad diets come with a message that this is the healthiest way to eat (South Beach, Atkins, etc. etc. I am probably a bit dated. I haven't been paying attention to new diets for a few years). So, I think the idea of wanting to be healthy is there, but it is a stronger motivator for those with family histories of disease or already existing health problems. I am often wrong, but that is how I see it.

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Post by wosnes » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:29 am

TingTing wrote:
he can fit into his clothes he had since five years ago.
My ex-husband can still fit into clothes he wore before we were married 33 years ago. I know this because I see him in them now and again! In the entire time I've known him, I don't think his weight has varied by more than 10-12 pounds.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Post by harmony » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:01 am

That's my husband too. He is the same size as in high school (he's 34) and only varies about 10 lbs. He wears his clothes until they wear out. I think I finally retired his last outfit from high school 2 years ago. If he's working hard to stay slim, he doesn't let on. He does have spurts where he gets all buff, but he's kind of a yo-yo weightlifter of sorts. Now that he is in the Army he is slightly more consistent because they are tested on fitness. He can train purely for fitness not weight loss. Anyway, I am rambling, so I am done. :)

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Post by Bushranger » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:21 am

TingTing wrote:The pain in my foot went away and I was happy. Now I've gained weight again. I'm trying to re-motivate myself to lose weight. It's very difficult for me because I've always been a person with very little vanity and I've never done anything healthy beyond taking vitamins. I know I should lose weight because it's the healthy thing to do, but it's difficult. I will continue to find a way to motivate myself, but I think it will have to be something external.
Your story supports my point that external motivators don't usually work for the long term. As soon as you achieved a short term goal you put weight back on. As for the vanity comment, I don't see being fit and healthy as vanity. Maybe that is why some fat people don’t bother for fear of being seen as vain? I’m not sure, but it’s a thought since you mentioned it. I dislike true vanity though very much.

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Post by TingTing » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:14 pm

As for the vanity comment, I don't see being fit and healthy as vanity. Maybe that is why some fat people don’t bother for fear of being seen as vain? I’m not sure, but it’s a thought since you mentioned it. I dislike true vanity though very much.
Being fit and healthy is definitely not vanity. But for alot of people, being vain may be the first step to wanting to lose weight. I wish I could say that everyone who wants to lose weight automatically thinks "I want to be healthy, that's why I want to lose weight!" Most of the people I know usually say "I want to look nice/sexy that's why I want to lose weight."

I don't know either if some heavy people do not want to lose weight because they are afraid of being seen as vain. I don't have a problem with that.

I think it would be easier for me to lose weight if I had more vanity. If I cared more about how I look, I think I'd be fit and thin today.

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:06 pm

Wanting to look nice and sexy aren't automatically vain I'd say.
I'd *LOVE* to look nice and sexy!!! :wink:
But I don't consider myself vain at all.
It's when the person is *obsessed* with the notion that the only worth they have lies in their exterior/superficial qualities, above all else.
Ting ting, I'm going to guess that you aren't really using the word vanity in the way that most people would, or that you misunderstand that caring about how one looks, doesn't automatically equate to being vain.
Maybe you just don't hold much value in outer appearances in general?
Just chiming in with a guess as to what are saying.
For me, I would like, above all, in this order, to feel good, have energy, and yes, look nice too (and sexy hahah).
As well, it's very important to me, to be a good role model for my Son, and develop self esteem and feel proud that I am taking care of myself and loving and respecting myself.
Peace,
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Post by TingTing » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:11 am

Wanting to look nice and sexy aren't automatically vain I'd say.
I'd *LOVE* to look nice and sexy!!!
But I don't consider myself vain at all.
It's when the person is *obsessed* with the notion that the only worth they have lies in their exterior/superficial qualities, above all else.
Ting ting, I'm going to guess that you aren't really using the word vanity in the way that most people would, or that you misunderstand that caring about how one looks, doesn't automatically equate to being vain.
Maybe you just don't hold much value in outer appearances in general?
Hmmm......okay. I don't think having vanity means only caring about the exterior qualities. Having vanity to me means caring about one's appearance to have the desire to lose weight to look good and healthy. I feel that if I were more "vain", I would've taken more time and energy to learn to eat less, eat right, exercise more. :)

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Post by gratefuldeb67 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:24 am

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because I am pretty sure that vain is defined as being *excessively* proud of ones appearance or accomplishments, and conceited.
Somehow, I can't imagine that you meant to use that word with that meaning.
Good luck either way! :wink:
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Post by Bushranger » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:44 am

Agreed. TingTing's idea of vain isn't really what I was thinking either. Nor does it match with the dictionary definition. The excessive and superficial feel to it is the key.

vain

Show Spelled Pronunciation [veyn]

–adjective, -er, -est.
1. excessively proud of or concerned about one's own appearance, qualities, achievements, etc.; conceited: a vain dandy.
2. proceeding from or showing personal vanity: vain remarks.
3. ineffectual or unsuccessful; futile: a vain effort.
4. without real significance, value, or importance; baseless or worthless: vain pageantry; vain display.
5. Archaic. senseless or foolish.

—Idiom
6. in vain,
a. without effect or avail; to no purpose: to apologize in vain.
b. in an improper or irreverent manner: to take God's name in vain.

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Post by harmony » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:15 am

I thought I would respond again, because I finally got a chance to actually read the post more thoroughly.

Bushranger wrote:
This perplexes me somewhat as the reason to lose weight and be trim, lean and healthy should be one in the same. That IS the reason to lose weight.

I don't agree with this simply because it is too black and white.
It's like they don't value their own health and wellbeing enough to be a sufficient reason and therefore require something else. I think this lack of self worth is one of the main driver for their weight and health problems in the first place.
I don't think it is that simple, but I don't have the time to figure out how to explain why I feel that way. :)
For example; I want to lose weight to be in the 21 day club. Or perhaps, I want to lose weight to fit into size XYZ dress. These are both great as milestones but they should never be the primary goal or motivation.
I agree with this. The 21 day club or fitting into a certain size is a better milestone than a goal.

Ideally, the focus should be on learning to have a healthy relationship with food not losing weight. It makes sense to fix the cause and not just the symptoms. As it says in big bold letters in Reinhard's book "Focus on Behavior, Not Results". Behavior causes results, results cannot exist without behavior.

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Post by Bushranger » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:21 am

harmony_55805 wrote:
Bushranger wrote:It's like they don't value their own health and wellbeing enough to be a sufficient reason and therefore require something else. I think this lack of self worth is one of the main driver for their weight and health problems in the first place.
I don't think it is that simple, but I don't have the time to figure out how to explain why I feel that way. :)
I suspect for a lot of people it really is that simple, just they either haven't got the courage to admit it to themselves or their mind is not at a place where they grasp the reality of it.

I feel we need more black and white back in our lives. Over complicating things and seeing everything in shades of grey, although the commonly commended modern way of thinking, often isn't conducive to a peaceful mind. Not in my experience anyway.

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Post by harmony » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:23 am

Bushranger wrote:
I feel we need more black and white back in our lives. Over complicating things and seeing everything in shades of grey, although the commonly commended modern way of thinking, often isn't conducive to a peaceful mind. Not in my experience anyway.
I guess I have had the opposite experience. Black and white certainly makes things appear easier and avoids confusion on a basic level, but it does not always reflect reality. Too much stress on black and white can lead to the abuse of judgement on others - feeling you are better than someone else because you have it right and they don't (which I am sure is not your intent, but I have experienced this abuse from others in my life). I have fallen into that mindset myself at times. That is why I try to avoid that kind of thinking. :) I think it's fine to set your own personal standards. I guess that is black and white. But, I would not expect others to agree or comply with my way of doing things. What works for one, may not work for another.

It would be fine with me to agree to disagree. :)

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Post by Bushranger » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:55 am

Unsurprisingly, you've taken black and white to mean judging others and thinking you are right and others wrong. Little wonder people don't get it and prefer to be stuck in the "what ifs" of grey instead of the "bigotry" of black and white. I can't be bothered explaining it.

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Post by harmony » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:56 am

That's fine with me. :)

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Post by Bushranger » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:00 am

Don't be antagonistic; it could be construed as your concept of black and white thinking.

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Post by harmony » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:22 am

Sorry, I don't mean to antagonize. This is probably something that we would not be able to settle anyway. I do respect your opinion on the matter even if I don't agree with it.

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Post by kccc » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:48 pm

At the risk of starting this up again... I think that big, long-term goals with no end-point are hard for a lot of people. As a culture, maintenance or "accepting the journey" is hard for most of us.

Coupled with that, we have trouble with focusing on what we do rather than what we want. Just look on the "challenge" thread - many of the goals are results-oriented rather than habit-oriented.

Short and mid-term goals can really help with both issues. They can be extremely motivating.

What crystallized that for me is the effect of the Couch to 5K program (which everyone on the boards must know I'm doing right now, lol!). I had a two week vacation, followed by two weeks in which the gym was closed during the hours when I normally exercise. Any other year, I would almost certainly have gotten derailed in terms of my exercise program. But because I had set the goal of doing Cto5K, I found ways to do it... even locating a local high school track the night we stayed in a hotel that had NO place to run! (Believe me, that is NOT my normal level of dedication!) That mid-term goal, broken into the weekly short-term goals, really made a difference.

Of course, the trick then is choosing short and mid-term goals that support the long-term ones. I see "being healthy" and "exercising regularly" as my long-term ones, but because I get bored easily, I like a succession of different ways to approach those goals. I love taking different classes, having a buddy to do an exercise program, whatever.

And I do think the bigger problem is not mid-term goals, but "results-oriented" goals. When we want to "lose five pounds by the wedding," we short-circuit the process, stress our bodies, and burn through the determination we need for day-to-day habit-maintenance.

Just my reflection, based on how well this particular mid-term goal has served me.

PS - Next summer, I plan to do the 3-day Breast Cancer walk. The year after, I want to do a walking tour vacation in Europe (which I need to be in shape for!). They're all "extra" goals, but they fit into the big picture - just add a little extra depth and color. :)

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Post by Bushranger » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:46 am

KCCC, short term goals are great, don't get me wrong. People should set milestones to achieve. My entire point has been that these alone don't work long term because by their very nature they have an end and once that end is reached most people lapse back into their old ways. This is the exact reason why most diets fail; they inherently are finite because they often work to a time frame and then stop. Or they are so ridiculous that nobody could ever eat that way beyond a few months.

If people took their long term health and fitness to be the number one goal (and yes, a never ending one at that) and used these other things as milestones along the way then perhaps they would stop failing so often.

At any rate, most of you seem to agree with that to varying degrees. It just saddens me to see so many others whose only objective is "must fit into my size XYZ jeans" with no thought beyond that once they achieve it. It also saddens me even further that so many people do not see their own health and fitness as a worthy goal or road to travel without some superfluous extra objectives to spur it on.

My intent for this thread was to try to get people to think about how much they value (or don't value as the case may be) their own health and fitness and perhaps to think a little more about the true motives behind most of their goals. Too deep maybe? I don't know. It was only ever intended for helpful purposes.

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Post by mimi » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:10 pm

My intent for this thread was to try to get people to think about how much they value (or don't value as the case may be) their own health and fitness and perhaps to think a little more about the true motives behind most of their goals.
Admirable intent and point well taken, Bushranger. After taking time and reading the thread more carefully, I see that more clearly. And according to the definition of vain - it doesn't fit me. I'm like Debs and others, there's a part of me that just wants to look nice (I don't think there's anything wrong with that), but not excessively proud or concerned. At this stage in my life my primary concern is my overall health and well-being. Unfortunately, that goal came with growing older and wiser (ha!). I wish I'd had it sooner!
I so appreciate all of your input and words of wisdom on these forums, Bushranger. You always give me much *food* for thought!

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Post by BrightAngel » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:24 pm

KCCC wrote:And I do think the bigger problem is not mid-term goals, but "results-oriented" goals.
KCCC,
I agree completly.
I have now been maintaining a very large weight-loss for over 3 1/2 years,
and I frequently still set behavior-oriented goals for myself.
A statement I recently read in a book entitled
The Art & Science of Rational Eating by Albert Ellis
describes my own personal experience.
"Losing weight and keeping it off is more difficult than climbing Mount Everest, because you are never comfortably at the top. A better analogy may be swimming upsteam and barely staying in one place, and doing this all the time. We are not saying that you cannot do it. No doubt you have pursued other difficult goals in your life. Most likely you have decided that, difficult as it was, these goals were important enough to pursue and attain."
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

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Post by Gia » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:20 pm

I personally think it is the way we are wired. It is very hard and against human innate tendencies to focus on abstract long-term goals, when there are other specific, short-term goals.

In one controlled study, smokers who were told that their teeth would look whiter in two weeks had more success in quitting than people who were told that they were decreasing their chance of lung cancer by 50%.

That is analogous to the diet situation. People who are told that they can fit into a dress 2 sizes smaller in X weeks, will often find that more convincing than being told they will be "healthier" and "fitter".

That is why all the diet and weight loss ads show people saying: "I went down 2 dress sizes in two weeks!" and holding up their old giant pants. It is a strong visual motivator, more so than an abstract concept like "health".

Perhaps you are right that people's primary goal "should" be health, but given that it often is not, isn't it great that better health is a secondary effect of fitting into that smaller size dress anyway?

I don't the issue is what should and shouldn't motivate you, but the issue is: once you reach that specific goal, how will you STAY motivated? Because many people don't...

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Post by Bushranger » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:41 am

Which is entirely my point. Most of them go belly up as soon as they reach some arbitrary goal because they have nothing to spur them on anymore. This is why I say they should never be more than milestones along the way and not the primary goal.

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Re: Why do so many people need external reasons to lose weig

Post by TunaFishKid » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:32 am

Bushranger wrote:...the reason to lose weight and be trim, lean and healthy should be one in the same. That IS the reason to lose weight...
Thin does not necessarily equal healthy and fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy. Just wanted to make that point.

Everyone has their own reasons for what they do. Why judge? Life's too short. :)
~ Laura ~

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Post by Gia » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:32 pm

GOOD TOPIC! Interesting points.

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