Everyday Systems

When I go out to eat with my friends, can I eat a burger and fries? I wanted one the other day, but I didn't order it because on any other "diet" I know I wouldn't be allowed to have it. I really wanted it though. Should I just be proud of myself for not ordering it, or should I have allowed myself to enjoy the dinner I wanted to? After all, I do believe it is in the rules, no?

HealthPrincess9 wrote:When I go out to eat with my friends, can I eat a burger and fries? I wanted one the other day, but I didn't order it because on any other "diet" I know I wouldn't be allowed to have it. I really wanted it though. Should I just be proud of myself for not ordering it, or should I have allowed myself to enjoy the dinner I wanted to? After all, I do believe it is in the rules, no?

It's not sweet, and if it fits on one plate and you don't order a second one you're perfectly fine.

Yay! That's what I wanted to hear!

Thank you!

Enjoy!

If you haven't read the book, you should. It explains it all. Not just what to do and what not to do, but soooo much more importantly, why. Once you really understand the why, it is easier to make some trickier decisons on your own. Sometimes we are hit with a dilema but when you truly understand the system you can make the best choices for situation.

For instance, yes the burger and fries do fit into the one plate rule but I can tell you I won't lose any weight if I eat like that more than once in a rare while. But the point in the beginning is to get used to eating only your one plate at meal time, once you get that down pat, you might have to adjust your meal size or content if you are not losing any weight.

Sorry to have gone from fun on your last question to kill joy on this one, but hey don't you need to leave some room for those rum and diet cokes for your S days!!!!! See, now I am back to being your fun friend.

I ordered the book of Amazon last week and I'm waiting for it... Can't wait to read it!

I would eat a burger and fries whenever I wanted it - along with anything else I want to eat that isn't a sweet - and I *do* lose weight just fine. And I'm 'old' and hypothyroid - so that's saying something

I would eat a burger and fries whenever I wanted it - along with anything else I want to eat that isn't a sweet - and I *do* lose weight just fine. And I'm 'old' and hypothyroid - so that's saying something

I'm so glad you ordered the book...I think it's almost essential to understanding this whole adventure.

And I agree...I eat a burgers & fries without hesitation and without guilt. It's wonderfully freeing to feel you can order whatever you really want! I don't eat them often, however, and if the meal comes out on a big platter instead of reasonably-sized plate, I cut the burger in half and bring some home, or give some of my fries away if there's a mountain of them. But if really was hungry, I would eat the whole meal and still consider the day a green one.

The freedom to eat what you really want to is really quite amazing. I don't feel guilt at restaurants or dinner with family or friends. Instead of producing a wild, "I-can-eat-anything-in-sight" binge, it makes me realize that I don't have to eat everything right now...I can eat a burger any day...and I can eat a homemade roll with butter any day...and I can eat chicken chowder any day. I'm no longer craving foods because none of them are illegal any longer. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that we can eat everything piled high on a platter and still call it keeping to the plan, but anything can be eaten in moderation and that dramatically turns the volume down on food craving.

Glad you're here...enjoy the journey!

janie

A little more background on me (since I'm posting here so much! )

As I have said, I am 23 years old. I graduated from college two years ago and went directly into a full time job. Since then I have bought a house and moved out of my parents house. I have lived on my own for over a year now. It is crazy - I feel so "old" with all of my responsibilities! I have to worry about mortgage payments, property taxes, utiulities, etc...

ANYWAY, my dad came to visit me yesterday. I don't get to see him as often as I would like, and he was working in the same building as me. So, we went out for an early dinner. We went to Chili's. I decided that I wanted to have a bacon cheeseburger! (since I was allowed to!)... I ate it, and it was very good... In fact, I ate it at 5 PM and was able to go the entire night without any snacks!

Afterwards, instead of feeling completely satisfied as I had hoped, I felt stuffed/satisfied. I think next time I will read the complete menu and pick what I really want then, not just order a burger because I am allowed to have it!

It sounds like your folks have a daughter to be proud of.

Keep going to lunch with your Dad. My daughter is 18 now, and I treasure the time I get to spend with her now that she's at college, although I doubt she knows how much.

I'd have ordered the same thing. Have you ever been to Red Robin? They have this Royal Red Robin Burger which, besides the burger, cheese and bacon has a fried egg. I'm getting hungry thinking about it...

But I only eat a few of the onion rings.

HealthPrincess9 wrote:A little more background on me (since I'm posting here so much! )

As I have said, I am 23 years old. I graduated from college two years ago and went directly into a full time job. Since then I have bought a house and moved out of my parents house. I have lived on my own for over a year now. It is crazy - I feel so "old" with all of my responsibilities! I have to worry about mortgage payments, property taxes, utiulities, etc...

ANYWAY, my dad came to visit me yesterday. I don't get to see him as often as I would like, and he was working in the same building as me. So, we went out for an early dinner. We went to Chili's. I decided that I wanted to have a bacon cheeseburger! (since I was allowed to!)... I ate it, and it was very good... In fact, I ate it at 5 PM and was able to go the entire night without any snacks!

Afterwards, instead of feeling completely satisfied as I had hoped, I felt stuffed/satisfied. I think next time I will read the complete menu and pick what I really want then, not just order a burger because I am allowed to have it!

It sounds like your folks have a daughter to be proud of.

I sure hope so! I try to make my parents proud

My daughter is 18 now, and I treasure the time I get to spend with her now that she's at college, although I doubt she knows how much.

Honestly, tell her! The greatest compliments are when my parents let me know how much they care about me... There's nothing better!

I've never been to Red Robin, but that Burger sounds nuts! If I'm ever there I'll be sure to check it out!

It takes a while to get used to the idea that you can have *anything* that you want. For a while, you do kinda go overboard, but as soon as you convince your body/mind/feelings that you are not going to be deprived (or for some people, starved) ever again, the cravings, etc, settle down and it becomes easier to not overeat in those situations.

Lately we've been getting our burger fix at Fat Burger

Red Robin burgers are the best!

Howdy,

I ate like that and gained 8# over the course of a year. Started counting calories and have lost 6 # in a month.

Calories do matter. What the tricky part is, knowing what your calorie burn is or how much you need to eat and still lose weight.

Oh, there's no question that all that calories matter. I mean, No-S works partly because a framework that gives you less opportunity to consume.

But I'll have a Royal Robin burger twice a year or so anyway.

How ever many calories are in a serving of something - anything - doesn't matter in the slightest to me. Even if all that food fits on my plate (I"m sure I could fit thousands of calories on my plate anytime I wanted to) it doesn't necessarily fit in my stomach and that is what counts.

After all this burger talk and a class tonight I forgot I had, we went out for burgers tonight. I have no clue how many calories were in the meal - and no interest in finding out

I absolutely agree that eating a burger & fries on a regular basis would be unproductive. They are obviously too high in everything to be considered a healthy, daily meal. And I completely agree that the calorie count does not match up....one can't eat a meal like a Red Robin burger & fries regularly and expect to lose weight. And I really am not trying to turn this into a calories/plating thread at all. But I have to mention that for some of us who are not merely battling calories, but battling years of food disfunction, the emphasis on this plan has been teaching us to keep the emphasis off calories and onto eating three normal meals a day. I absolutely don't consider a Red Robin burger and fries to be a "normal meal" in size or calories, but learning that a larger meal can be eaten on a regular day without guilt takes the emphasis OFF the tendency to feel as if one is a complete failure. It also takes the tendency for binging away. For people like me, who spent most of my life obsessing about calories and battling yet another binge, this plan allows those burgers & fries meals for a different reason.

Again, I'm not mentioning this to argue calorie counting...it obviously works wonderfully for many people. And if that works - that's truly the best thing for someone to be doing. But it doesn't work for everyone....and that is why many of us are here. If I started counting calories once again, I would be back where I was very quickly....emotionally eating...binging...addicted. I know it doesn't make sense to everyone because logic says that it should work. You count your calories & you'll lose - that makes sense. But we all know it's not that simple. I can't lose weight counting calories because of my messed up emotional disfuctions over food and dieting. Learning to eat a normal, reasonable meal three times week AND having the freedom to occasionally eat something I crave and not consider it a failure is changing my life.

The original post on this thread was a question of whether a burger & fries was allowed when she went out with her friends, not whether it was a good idea on a regular basis. If this plan had to modified to take in account meals out with friends on non S days, it would completely fall apart. This plan doesn't work if you start adding addendums such as, "No high-calorie foods with friends", or "Count calories if the fat content is high". I need to learn to eat normally....and learn what my body can eat and not eat. For me, THAT is what will unravel the decades of eating abuse I've put myself through.

If it works for you, count calories or fat grams...or whatever. But please understand that many of the people drawn here are here because counting calories doesn't work for them. I absolutely respect anyone's desire to do whatever you want with food and encouraging people to look at food critically is fine...but again, this is a different journey.

There...I've said what I wanted to. I tried really hard to be sure you understand that I'm not criticizing ANYONE who counts calories. And I'm not being critical of anyone wanting others to be aware that eating restaurant fare is not a good idea on a regular basis. I just want to remind us all that this plan in "vanilla" form is exactly what many of us need.

^^^howfunisthat, I think you've written a beautiful post. I completely agree with every word.

howfunisthat wrote:I absolutely agree that eating a burger & fries on a regular basis would be unproductive. They are obviously too high in everything to be considered a healthy, daily meal. And I completely agree that the calorie count does not match up....one can't eat a meal like a Red Robin burger & fries regularly and expect to lose weight. And I really am not trying to turn this into a calories/plating thread at all. But I have to mention that for some of us who are not merely battling calories, but battling years of food disfunction, the emphasis on this plan has been teaching us to keep the emphasis off calories and onto eating three normal meals a day. I absolutely don't consider a Red Robin burger and fries to be a "normal meal" in size or calories, but learning that a larger meal can be eaten on a regular day without guilt takes the emphasis OFF the tendency to feel as if one is a complete failure. It also takes the tendency for binging away. For people like me, who spent most of my life obsessing about calories and battling yet another binge, this plan allows those burgers & fries meals for a different reason.

Again, I'm not mentioning this to argue calorie counting...it obviously works wonderfully for many people. And if that works - that's truly the best thing for someone to be doing. But it doesn't work for everyone....and that is why many of us are here. If I started counting calories once again, I would be back where I was very quickly....emotionally eating...binging...addicted. I know it doesn't make sense to everyone because logic says that it should work. You count your calories & you'll lose - that makes sense. But we all know it's not that simple. I can't lose weight counting calories because of my messed up emotional disfuctions over food and dieting. Learning to eat a normal, reasonable meal three times week AND having the freedom to occasionally eat something I crave and not consider it a failure is changing my life.

The original post on this thread was a question of whether a burger & fries was allowed when she went out with her friends, not whether it was a good idea on a regular basis. If this plan had to modified to take in account meals out with friends on non S days, it would completely fall apart. This plan doesn't work if you start adding addendums such as, "No high-calorie foods with friends", or "Count calories if the fat content is high". I need to learn to eat normally....and learn what my body can eat and not eat. For me, THAT is what will unravel the decades of eating abuse I've put myself through.

If it works for you, count calories or fat grams...or whatever. But please understand that many of the people drawn here are here because counting calories doesn't work for them. I absolutely respect anyone's desire to do whatever you want with food and encouraging people to look at food critically is fine...but again, this is a different journey.

There...I've said what I wanted to. I tried really hard to be sure you understand that I'm not criticizing ANYONE who counts calories. And I'm not being critical of anyone wanting others to be aware that eating restaurant fare is not a good idea on a regular basis. I just want to remind us all that this plan in "vanilla" form is exactly what many of us need.

I completely agree. While I understand what Bright Angel says, I think that as long as one isn't eating that kind of meal daily, it's okay. On the other hand, if you're eating out and eating that kind of thing daily (or more than once a day!!), it's something to watch.

Burger and fries out to dinner with friends on any day of the week is definitely allowed in No S. I would watch my ketchup intake, but that's about it.

I agree that too many burgers and fries are no good if you get it too often. I went through a period where I didn't have much money and I hit up McDonald's $1 menu several times a week. I started to get supersized, like the movie! Now I am vegetarian, so I have no problems ordering up a veggie burger and fries! Granted I am not a huge fan of most veggie burgers, but they are certainly a better alternative. Usually burgers out are huge, so you may find that you can only eat half.

I know No S is not restricting to what foods you eat, but I have to say cutting down on fried foods helps a lot in weight loss.

howfunisthat wrote: If it works for you, count calories.
Many of the people drawn here are here because counting calories doesn't work for them.
I'm not criticizing ANYONE who counts calories.
And I'm not being critical of anyone wanting others to be aware that eating restaurant fare is not a good idea on a regular basis.
I just want to remind us all that this plan in "vanilla" form is exactly what many of us need.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I am aware that the Majority of No S forum members choose not to count calories;
that Many of those members are able to follow "vanilla" No S;
and that Some of those members lose weight.
However, there is plenty of room in No S for differing points of view,
and different ways to do things.

Despite one's emotional history or likes and dislikes about the process of "restricting" or "counting calories",
in itself, a calorie is simply a neutral unit of measurement re the body's energy.
Sometimes I think it is important to bring up the unpopular fact
that No S isn't a Magic Plan which defies the laws of science.
Remember Reinhard's No S warning: "Don't be an Idot".
Whether we Specifically count calories,
or we, through No S rules. (..whether "vanilla" or otherwise...)
work to control our calorie intake in a General manner.
Weight-Loss or Weight-Maintenance still depends on calories in and calories out.

Just for the record, for the calorie counters --

An In'n'Out hamburger (ketchup, mustard, and pickles instead of spread) plus half a basket of fries (share with a friend!) comes in right around 500 calories. And they are tasty, scrumptious calories at that, with good crunchy lettuce, sweet tomatoes, and sharp onions.

It's not that much more if you get spread or cheese. About 90 calories.

I feel absolutely no shame in getting In'n'Out once or twice a week. YUM!

Howdy,
And for me, assuming I remember to eat half of the fries and no ketchup, I am left with 790 calories for the rest of the day, for my desired goal of about a pound of loss per week.

All depends on what the person's goals are.

This was a great reality check for me. I am extrememly happy that I asked the original question and I am so thankful for all of your replies.

I think I began to see this NoS diet as eat whatever I want, as long as I can fit it onto my plate. Now I know that this isn't some magic way of eating... My body is still going to react to calories the same way as before.

I am not going to start counting calories again (yet) until I am truely comfortable with this new NoS way of eating. I am, however, going to try to make the same healthy decisions I made before, and not just eat a burger & fries when I'm out because I can!

Thank you all for your replies!!

HealthPrincess9 wrote:
I am not going to start counting calories again (yet) until I am truely comfortable with this new NoS way of eating. I am, however, going to try to make the same healthy decisions I made before, and not just eat a burger & fries when I'm out because I can!

I think that's by far the best approach.

Calorie-counting MAY be necessary eventually - it is for some people. But No-S works for many people without counting, so you may never need to go there. There are a lot of factors involved there, so try it for a while and just see.

But IMO, working on "habit first" is wise, because that effort can be derailed by early calorie-counting. It just keeps you in "diet-head" too much. You need a little flexiblity to figure out what you need to eat at meals once you remove snacks. And once the habit is in place, even calorie-counting is easier.

And while the occasional burger or other high-calorie meal will probably be fine, a steady stream of them won't. To me, that falls under the "don't be an idiot" part of the description. Still, it's nice to have the occasional one without freaking when circumstances (or desire) dictate.

Good luck!

I also think calorie counting is unnecessary, and counter productive. I follow NoS - I eat what I want no matter what it is and don't pay the slightest attention to calories or fat or attempt to restrict my portions in any way. If I feel like eating 'high calorie foods' every day or even every meal, or eating out every day of the week I do what I want within the bounds of the 14 words of NoS.

What I do not do is, like KCC said, 'be an idiot'. I don't have to count calories or measure portions to know what that is.

Dandelion wrote: What I do not do is, like KCC said, 'be an idiot'. I don't have to count calories or measure portions to know what that is.

It is great that you knew:-) I for one did not, especially, in relation to my body, my height, age and life style.

Connercream,

I've been following your story with interest. It really brings home to me how much unconscious knowledge (about calories/nutrition) I brought with me to No-S that helps me "not be an idiot" - at least most of the time. There are people who really don't have to worry about watching what they eat beyond the basics of No-S, but a lot of us do have to monitor a little bit more. I think I do it almost without noticing... I know to pay extra attention in restaurants, I watch that I eat enough veggies, etc., and just do it.

But as you point out, not everyone does have that kind of knowledge. (And it's probably good that they didn't need to develop it.)

I think you're doing a great job of re-grouping and "layering" on to the basic program - not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but taking the steps that are right for you. And I hope that you find the basic habits support you in your choices.

Cheers,

KCCC

Wow -- some of you folks are going for really low calorie counts. The nutritionist I discussed weight loss with explained to me that usually, if you're eating below 1500 kCal/day, your body is actually starving and not getting enough to run on.

I shoot for 1500-1700 kCal/day (ballpark, I don't obsess), and lose weight. Veeeery slowly, but I do.

Not saying you're doing it wrong! Just surprised that you're needing so little.

Jishin wrote:Wow -- some of you folks are going for really low calorie counts. The nutritionist I discussed weight loss with explained to me that usually, if you're eating below 1500 kCal/day, your body is actually starving and not getting enough to run on.

I shoot for 1500-1700 kCal/day (ballpark, I don't obsess), and lose weight. Veeeery slowly, but I do.

Not saying you're doing it wrong! Just surprised that you're needing so little.

It really depends on how much you actually burn a day - if you're, say, a 45-year-old female who is only 5 feet tall and doesn't exercise much, you're not going to burn as much as an 18-year-old guy who is 6"8' tall and goes jogging for 2 hours every day (just listing some extremes). So if the woman needs so many calories a day to maintain her current weight, and if the man consumes the same amount of calories, his body might go into "starving mode", but if it's the other way around, the woman will definitely gain weight.

Did that just make sense?

Oh, sure. But I was given 1500kCal/day as the number for a 5'ish inactive woman. It was intended as the baseline. This wasn't all that long ago ... maybe 4 years? Perhaps the science has changed since then.

For the full disclosure, I'm 35, 5'2", female, and pretty active -- 30+ minute workouts three days a week, 2 hours of roller hockey two days a week (I goaltend), and two days to rest. I think my stomach would be trying to eat me from the inside on 1250 calories a day.

Jishin wrote:Wow -- some of you folks are going for really low calorie counts. The nutritionist I discussed weight loss with explained to me that usually, if you're eating below 1500 kCal/day, your body is actually starving and not getting enough to run on.

I think the nutritionist was talking about an "average" person. I'm 60, smaller than average and less active than average (due to some medical issues). My "ideal" weight is about 120 and because I'm not able to be more active, 1200 calories daily is about right for me. And I just feel better eating more lightly. I'm not a calorie accountant and I don't deny myself anything, but lighter feels best.