2 Important No-S Diet Questions

JasonT27 · Post by **JasonT27** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:41 am

Hi All!

I recently came down with community pneumonia and therefore forfeited the S-Diet for over a month while recovering. Since I am well again (thank God), I re-read Reinhard's book and have some questions now that I am coming back on the diet again. When I had first started it, I was doing quite well and losing weight. I also wear the pin on my lab coat at work (I am a tour guide at the Museum of Science and Industry, and many guests come up asking what the NO-S stands for, and I happily tell them. They like it a lot)

1. I read a lot of bulletin posts on here with what people eat on their N days. Many people say things like: "Breakfast: 1/2 cup of strawberries, 2 tablespoons low-fat butter and skim milk. Lunch: 2 egg whites, wheat bread, etc." You get the idea. I am not hating by any means on the menu, but it comes across as someone who is still in the mindset of "If I'm on a diet, I must eat only healthy foods." I thought that we were technically allowed to eat what we want on N days as long as they are not sweets or seconds- and no snacking. Why then, do so many people still resort to eating like birds? Because it just seems contradictory.

2. Still having a HUGE issue with S days. When I am eating ice cream, drinking lots of alcohol, partying with friends- they laugh that I am not on a diet since I still gorged on the weekends when I first started the diet. I try to explain to them, but they think I'm missing the point. Re-reading the book again, I understand Reinhard's concept with forming habit. However, it is still an S day- so again, technically I should be able to eat what ever I want as long as I stick to the plan on N days. I understand habits are formed, but I am a very unique individual (I can hear the laughter already) and am very spontaneous in my actions. In other words, I take advantage of the S days. If I can eat all the pizza and ice cream I want, I'm gonna do it. I love pizza and Ice cream to death. I don't eat it because I feel guilty. I eat it because I like it. So am I missing something here? By 2 months, am I supposed to not be eating pizza and ice cream on S days? Because I'm getting two perspectives when I read the bulletin boards, and then read the book.

I should really be asking- Will I lose weight if I follow the rules like I'm doing, or are you as an individual - expected to eventually comply to eating less on the weekends? Because I'm 27- I've been eating crap all my life. And if there's a medium pepporoni pizza on the table, and its mine, and its Sunday, I'm gonna max it. Just being honest. Mind you- when I started the S diet, I stuck to the rules. And lost weight. Now I'm starting again. I just want this broken down a little more clear.

PS- Val Kilmer came to the museum, and liked the S-Diet pin!!!

Dandelion · Post by **Dandelion** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:05 am

You're apparently not reading my menus

. I don't measure or weigh anything. I think low fat eating is unhealthy and if I throw away any part of the egg, it'll be the less nutritious white.

I see it the way you describe. On N days, if iI want it and it's not a sweet, I have it, whatever it is, as much as I want as long as it's on one plate. In my case the one plate rule isn't about seconds, since I almost never want seconds, but it applies to picking at the food when I put it away, etc. As far as snacks go, I take that literally, too. I don't care if it's a 'healthy' snack. I don't do it. The closest I get is an occasional cup of tea.

In the beginning my weekends were a bit over the top. I trusted that the system would work though and my S days would work themselves out. And they have. If it works, I'm not gonna mess with it.

Mounted Ranger! · Post by **Mounted Ranger!** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:23 am

I'm with you guys . . . the beauty of no s is the simplicity: one plate, no measuring, no weighing, and *definately* NO Diet Food! I do not eat low fat, sugar free, et c. I eat good food and love it . . . but just one plateful.

Lovin' it, losin' weight.

crackityjonesjr · Post by **crackityjonesjr** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:30 am

Reinhard also says "don't be an idiot" in regards to eating on S days. Obviously, if you gorge on pizza and ice cream every weekend, you will probably not lose weight.

However, if you limit yourself to a few scoops of your favorite desert and a limited number of pizza slices on S days, you will stand a better chance.

JasonT27 · Post by **JasonT27** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:00 am

I understand the concept of "Don't be an idiot" on the S-days, but the fact still remains that S-days are open bar. Even one poster quoted it best by saying 'S-days should be S-days so N days aren't.'

Once you start telling me "S-days are for eating what you want, but try to LIMIT what you indulge in"- the word LIMIT hits my conscious and I start thinking that ice cream, cake, pizza, chicken wings, etc. are bad bad bad- and I can't have much of them, thus causing me to want to binge.

I know I sound redundant in this post, as I'm sure many past bloggers have obsessed about this- but I believe that if its an S day, you should be able to (technically) eat what ever you want. When I read that "eventually your body will grow to expect less, and you won't want to eat as much on the weekends", I somewhat cringe because this is true in SOME people's nature, but not everyone. I am someone who, lets say on a Saturday, is sitting down to watch Six Feet Under or I Love Lucy- Loves to eat a platter of ribs and fries, topped off by a pint of Ben and Jerry's for dessert. This is not something I eat because I am ashamed. I love this stuff! And even when I'm full, I'll still nibble on it. Since its an S day, I shouldn't feel obligated to say "Well it is an S day, but I'm also not supposed to be an idiot- so I'll just put this back." No! Its supposed to be Training wheels off- I can do what I want.

I hope this helps, sorry If I rambled too much.

hilly6000 · Post by **hilly6000** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:15 am

Well, the main thing you're wanting to know is: Will you lose weight TECHNICALLY following the rules? Well... you can always follow the no-s diet the way you envision it, and see if you lose weight. If you don't, then you might have to limit the slices and the icecream. Sure, have it, but limit it.

The fact of the matter is that to lose weight, you MIGHT have to put a limit on it simply because the lack of a limit might be the reason for you wanting to lose weight. But other than that...

I eat regular food on the no-s. I eat lasagna, chicken pot pies, pizza, blah... I think eating only diet food would be more harmful than good. But I try to add more vegetables, and eat more fruit.

But hey, the point is to do what will realistically work for you. I am working out the kinks myself. So some experimentation might be in order.

Hope this helps!

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:12 pm

I think that even on S days, you should eat mindfully - that is, eat it because you want it, not because it's an S day. Food is a resource shared by the world, and you should always be grateful for it.

Eat the normal serving of pizza. Still want seconds? Go for it, or maybe think about saving room for the ice cream so you'll enjoy that, too.

The thing to remember on S days is that it's not your last one forever. Just for five days.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:42 pm

I have resigned myself to the reality that I will always eat like an idiot on S Days, so I'm in the process of reducing the number of S Days. I seem to need the ability to eat like an idiot. I don't know why, but I suspect it has something to do with 30 plus years of restricitve eating.
Kathleen

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:58 pm

JasonT27 wrote: 1. I read a lot of bulletin posts on here with what people eat on their N days. I thought that we were technically allowed to eat what we want on N days as long as they are not sweets or seconds- and no snacking. Why then, do so many people still resort to eating like birds? Because it just seems contradictory.

2. Still having a HUGE issue with S days. ... so again, technically I should be able to eat what ever I want as long as I stick to the plan on N days. I take advantage of the S days. If I can eat all the pizza and ice cream I want, I'm gonna do it. So am I missing something here? By 2 months, am I supposed to not be eating pizza and ice cream on S days? Because I'm getting two perspectives when I read the bulletin boards, and then read the book.

I should really be asking- Will I lose weight if I follow the rules like I'm doing, or are you as an individual - expected to eventually comply to eating less on the weekends?

My answer to your Question No 1 is:
People doing No S are different sexes, heights, weights, ages, activity levels, and have different Genetics.
These factors cause many differences in how much energy the body burns
...and therefore, how much energy the body needs in food intake, i.e. calories.

I am a small, older female, and my body's energy requirements are FAR LESS than one full dinner plate of rich, fatty food three times a day. In fact, that amount of that type of food will cause most larger-sized women, and many larger-sized men to gain weight.
In order to maintain my weight I have to eat no more than my body's energy requirement.
In order to lose weight, I have to eat less than my body's energy requirement.

My answer to your Question No 2 is:
NO, not in a million years.
(As it is very unlikely your eating preferences will magically change without your exerting effort to change them.)

The No S diet doesn't change the Laws of Science. NO S is intended to be a plan of moderate food intake which over time becomes habitual. Technically this Plan only limits the times and amounts of food one takes in for 5 of the 7 days each week. Even if a person has excellent N days in which they take in the same or less food than their body's energy burn, two days of unlimited excess will bring their week's average food (energy) intake FAR ABOVE the amount it takes to maintain or lose their body weight. I believe that when Reinhard says "Don't be an Idiot", he is (...in essence...) telling us to remember this.

Starla · Post by **Starla** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:23 pm

You may want to read the burger and fries thread - it deals with some of your questions.

My answers: No. 1. I do use skim milk on my cereal, and I do use lower fat ingredients in some recipes. After dieting on and off for 30 years, I have discovered some recipes that I truly enjoy with lower fat ingredients. I'm not going to switch to full fat just because I can. But for the most part I'm making foods I enjoy regardless of calories. I AM eating more fruits and vegetables; as a result, there's less room on my plate for the high-calorie stuff.

No. 2. I think you know the answer here. Weight loss requires a deficit in calories. What No S does is give you a structure to achieve a calorie deficit without counting calories. Here's a question asked and answered on the No S home page:

What if I am an idiot and insist on following the letter of the law but breaking it in spirit by (say) eating a gallon of ice cream every S-day and counting my second cousin's hamster's birthday as an S-day?

Then I can't help you. You will be fat and die young.

I don't know if this applies to you, but you may want to ask yourself if this is what you're doing.

Good luck with this - I hope you're able to come up with a way that No S will work for you.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:40 pm

If you were doing this before and lost weight, it might work for you. You fit the profile of someone who can afford a few extra calories - young, male, etc.

If it doesn't, then you'll need to re-group, and figure out what "not being an idiot" means for you.

No-S offers broad guidelines that everyone individualizes in their own way.

My advice: do 21 days where you keep your green days green, then see where you are. If it's working thus far, continue to check intermittently on progress - as you get closer to goal, you may have to watch your S-days more. BUT... as you do this longer, you will naturally change a bit in terms of what you eat. No need to cringe at that statement! The "naturally" means that you'll either not even notice it, or want to make the changes.

And, as foreign as the idea may be, a lot of us eat what you think of as diet food because we LIKE it.

Different people like different things.

A final note: No-S is a journey, a way of creating a different relationship with food that leads to healthier weight. Those of us on this board are all heading in the same general direction, but we are all at different points AND all take slightly different paths. I totally understand the "if I have limits on S-days my head will explode" stage, because I remember being there. Just know that it will probably be a stage (unless you have years of bad dieting behavior to un-do). The decisions you are making today are for today, and you may make different ones tomorrow. (Just tweak slowly, per the "mods" podcasts.)

Okay, a final final note: I always recommend the strictness podcast for all beginners, and the "mods" series for people who want to tweak immediately. But there are a lot of good ones there. Check them out.

Good luck!

Spudd · Post by **Spudd** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:22 pm

I agree with the other posters who say that you should do what you think is best (which seems to be following vanilla No-S, and being an idiot on S-days, no offense). If you lose weight with that structure, and you're happy with it, then by all means stick with it. Everyone is different, and what works for one person may not work for another.

Let me ask you a question about how you ate before you started the No-S diet. You say that if I put you down with a medium pizza, you will eat the whole thing. Prior to starting the diet, did you eat that way a lot? Was it your usual mode of eating? If so, then I think 5 days of restriction with 2 days of the old patterns will more than likely lead to weight loss. If not, then I think that the S-days will moderate themselves as time passes and become more like your old "norm" (or even more like N-days, if your body starts to adjust to the N-days enough that you actually crave the structure).

For me, I ate like a crazy person my first few weekends on No-S, because I wasn't used to the restrictions during the week and I felt the need to be free and stretch my limits. But as time passed I became used to the restrictions and they stopped feeling like restrictions. In concert with this, my need to be an idiot on my S-days also decreased.

For the past month my workplace has been having a "health challenge" where we are challenged to eat 7 servings of fruit/veg per day. This has had the effect of making me feel restricted again, and as a result my S-days have been out of control again while this has been going on. I am hopeful it will self-regulate again once the challenge is over.

My anecdotes may or may not ring true for you, because everyone is different. But I share them in hopes they will help.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:25 pm

Wow! You're certainly in a good spot to do some PR for No-S!

I've not been to the Museum of Science and Industry for a long time -- since my girls were little. I love it -- especially at this time of the year when they do Christmas Around the World. I'm just old enough to remember the sub arriving in Chicago. Mostly I remember my dad -- a Navy man and WWII vet -- being really excited about it.

Okay...on to the subject at hand.

I think we should eat healthy food nearly all the time. I don't think low-fat products are healthy, but we all have our own definitions of what constitutes healthy. Many of us want to eat healthy, whole foods. You're not going to find me eating fast food, Pop Tarts, Lean Cuisine or most things that come in the freezer section or the middle aisles of the grocery. They make me feel like crap. I want to feel good and real, healthy, whole food makes me feel good. I eat pizza, fried chicken, pork chops, chicken and dumplings, mashed potatoes and I use real butter, eat cake, cookies and ice cream, too.

Now, if you want to eat the overly refined and processed, fast and convenience foods -- that's your choice. They are things that I choose not to eat. I also tend to eat rather "light" -- one or two lighter meals per day and one heavier meal.

S days aren't a license to go wild. Straight from the main page:

There are just three rules and one exception:

No Snacks
No Sweets
No Seconds
Except (sometimes) on days that start with "S"

"Sometimes" is the big word there. I tend to agree with your friends; you're missing the point. I'm the mom of a 27 y/o and I'm going to tell you what I'd tell her:

You can't gorge every weekend and expect to lose weight. You're treating every weekend like it's New Year's Eve, Super Bowl Sunday, Christmas, Thanksgiving and your birthday all rolled into one.

There are a handful of times a year when it's really okay to let loose and go wild: New Years, Super Bowl Sunday (if you're into football) Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas (or your religious holidays) plus a few other special days -- your birthday, for instance.

Got news for you: we're ALL unique individuals with some things in common. And one of those things is that we can't go crazy two days a week and lose weight.

You still have to use some common sense and moderation on most S days. You know the saying "having your cake and eating it, too?" Well, you can have your cake and eat it, too, on No-S. You just can't eat the whole damned thing!

You should never have to give up pizza and ice cream. Heck, you can have pizza and wings on N days. But you can't eat as much of it as you'd like every weekend just because it's the weekend. Technically, you CAN eat whatever you want on S days, but you can't eat as much of it as you might like. You've got to be a little bit (okay, a LOT) more moderate. S days are NOT an open bar! Ice cream, cake, pizza, chicken wings aren't "bad, bad, bad", but you've got to use some common sense!

When we say "don't be an idiot on S days" no one is talking about the food being bad. It's about behavior.

By the way -- my 27 y/o has been doing something like No-S (of her own design) since August. She works two jobs and goes to school full time, and usually has only one day "off" each week. She goes out and eats/drinks whatever that day, but doesn't go wild. She's going to the Colts/Patriots game this weekend and plans to go wild. She also plans to go wild on Thanksgiving. She has a snack/treat daily and also exercises for about an hour 5 days weekly. Mostly, she's stopped being an idiot about food. She's lost over 30 pounds and dropped two, going on three, sizes since August.

PS Val Kilmer looks like he could use No-S.

Grammy G · Post by **Grammy G** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:55 pm

Reread Wosnes and pretend I wrote it! I couldn't say it any better

NoS should be freeing your time and mind from thinking about food, preparing special foods, measuring food..yadda..yadda..yadda.
It should be making food a pleasurable part of a lifestyle..not be the lifestyle. Good luck!!

~reneew · Post by **~reneew** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:41 pm

If I wanted to eat like a rabbit, I wouldn't be here. I eat what I like. As far as the S days go... that's my problem and like Kathleen says:

Kathleen wrote:I have resigned myself to the reality that I will always eat like an idiot on S Days, so I'm in the process of reducing the number of S Days. I seem to need the ability to eat like an idiot. I don't know why, but I suspect it has something to do with 30 plus years of restricitve eating.

Me too. I can't stand the thought of restricting my S days that I live for. I definitely over do my pizza on the weekend. I am still working on it. I'm slowly but surely figuring out what doesn't work though. Eating without a plate DOES NOT WORK!!! Making a humongous pizza with my favorite toppings doesn't work even if I tell myself I'll only have so many... going out and over-ordering (to have leftovers to bring home) doesn't work... making homeade pizzas on mini pizza pans for everyone in the family works if I don't make any extras (they become "mine".)

Reinhard told me that if you keep doing it "you'll eventually build a psychological ring of fire around the S es." I'm working on that. I do know that it gets easier when you honestly follow the rules.

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:09 pm

Seems to me that there's a (somewhat) hidden assumption in NoS: you can eat whatever you want on S days, but "whatever you want" is supposed to change over time as you get used to eating more moderately on N days. I'm not sure if it will work if this never happens -- but many people have found that it does, it just may take a while. Personally, I find that the lack of sweets during the week means it doesn't take huge amounts of food for me to feel "treated" on S days, so although I'm not consciously holding myself back all the time, I'm not eating absurd quantities of junk on S days.

If this change in habits, or the carry-over of N day habits on to S days, never occurs, maybe it does make sense to consider tweaks to the basic system. But "never" should be defined as a good, long time - months, at least.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:25 am

I don't have much to add to what's been said, but I don't 'eat like a bird.' My meals have gotten healthier over the course of doing No S (about 4 months now), because I've observed that healthier foods are the foods that help me feel good. I haven't had a frozen meal in about 2 months now, and I've cut way back on the amount of processed foods with my meals. I'm still working on my S days, but they've gotten way less wild than they were when I first started No S.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:11 pm

DaveMc wrote:Seems to me that there's a (somewhat) hidden assumption in NoS: you can eat whatever you want on S days, but "whatever you want" is supposed to change over time as you get used to eating more moderately on N days. I'm not sure if it will work if this never happens -- but many people have found that it does, it just may take a while. Personally, I find that the lack of sweets during the week means it doesn't take huge amounts of food for me to feel "treated" on S days, so although I'm not consciously holding myself back all the time, I'm not eating absurd quantities of junk on S days.

If this change in habits, or the carry-over of N day habits on to S days, never occurs, maybe it does make sense to consider tweaks to the basic system. But "never" should be defined as a good, long time - months, at least.

I think there's a mistaken assumption that S days are a time to go wild. If you pay attention to people who are naturally thin, they rarely go wild. They don't deny themselves what they want, but they don't go crazy with it, either. They also don't classify foods as "good" or "bad."

oliviamanda · Post by **oliviamanda** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:32 pm

Excuse me if I am repetitive in any way from what's been already posted.

I agree with clarinetgal. Healthier foods make you feel good. I think you'll find that you substitute more healthy meals over less healthy ones, you will see some sort of positive result. It's common sense you are going to maybe lose weight eating eating something healthy versus something fried and dripping with fat.

I think No S is a great frame to personalize your weight loss. If some people want to eat low-fat stuff and egg whites and they are full and enjoy that... great. I don't buy low-fat or no-fat anything. I'm vegetarian so I have different food options to work with. I still choose to eat a slice of pizza and a small salad and seltzer and juice instead of eating 2 slices of pizza and a soda on an N day. Sure I can have either, but I am "No S-ing" because I want to lose weight and I can be happy and satisfied with the pizza and salad. If I'm out and decide to have 2 pizza and soda I will not beat myself up about it. But I like to go with the healthier choice. It makes me feel good.

Bfrilkins · Post by **Bfrilkins** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:13 pm

Call me a blasphemer but I don't believe in S-days and I don't do them. Prior to starting the no-s diet, 90% of my excess weight/calories was coming from snacking on weekends, so having weekends as s-days would be no improvement on my habits.

Instead of having s-days, I treat every day as a no-s day. But then I allow myself ONE s per day (and that has to be a single measured serving, not a free for all). So 7 days a week I get three meals + 1 snack or sweet. It's working so far to keep my weight from going up (that was my primary goal, to stop the up-creep in my weight) and to lose a few pounds.

Everyday Systems

2 Important No-S Diet Questions

2 Important No-S Diet Questions

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