Guilt!

[Ragdoll]

I'm struggling with a new phenomenon on the No S diet -- guilt. And lots of it. Diet guilt probably isn't new to anyone who's struggled with weight gain most of their life. However, this guilt is a new, strange breed. I'll explain.

I ate like a pig yesterday. I ate carbs and hardly any veggies and felt so guilty! I kept to the No S Diet fine -- one vertical layer of food on one normal sized plate, three times. But I feel so guilty! I feel as if there's no way I can lose weight eating this supposedly "bad" food. Reinhard mentions this in his book, this thought that only if we eat low fat and low carb diets, that we'll feel good, then goes on to point out that statistically, it can't be these "bad" foods, but rather the quantity of food in general that has led to our weight gain.

Yesterday, for the first time in years, unless I was punishing myself, I ate two very large, very white pieces of toast, with REAL butter. And I feel guilty! I know in my head I'm sticking to the diet, yet worried that there's no way I can lose weight eating what I'd like. Yes, most days I eat veggies, and lots of them, but on days like yesterday: DO I need to feel guilty? Perhaps a rhetorical question.

Anyone else struggle with it? How do you deal with it? Is it false guilt, or should one allow oneself to be guilt free if one is sticking to the diet?

[mrsj]

DON'T FEEL GUILTY!!! EVER!!! You're not going to drop dead if you don't eat your veggies for a single day. Your hair won't fall out, nor will your face look like a prune!

The entire purpose of No S is to eat like our great grandparents did. They ate white bread and lots of it. They also ate meat and potatoes with gravy. They didn't eat snacks or sweets every day because they couldn't afford it and also didn't have the time.

In real life, sometimes it just isn't possible to eat a really balanced diet every single day. After all, we're only human.

Congrats on your GREEN Day yesterday!

[wosnes]

I agree with mrsj.

Here's a newsflash: most of the world's population follows a diet that is based mostly on carbs. The Peruvian diet is based on potatoes; central American Indians live mostly on maize and beans; the Asian diet is centered around white rice; the French eat lots of potatoes and bread; the Italians eat lots of pasta and bread. There are many, many more examples.

I eat white bread every day. Butter, too. So do the French. Another thing you need to consider is that we have so much false dietary information floating around that you can feel "guilty" when you're not doing anything bad!

Here's a quote from Recipes for Health by Martha Rose Shulman in The New York Times:

Martha Rose Shulman wrote:
Rice is a thoroughly sustaining food. According to Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid in "Seductions of Rice," a beautiful, well researched survey of rice traditions around the world , “Rice has the highest protein digestibility and energy digestibility among all the staple foods.†In most rice-consuming cultures, rice is supplemented with vegetables and legumes, small amounts of meat and fish, and oil.

I don’t share the current national aversion to white rice. True, nutritionists prefer brown rice because the high fiber content slows down the carbohydrate absorption rate. But you can get the same benefit by combining rice with high-fiber vegetables and legumes.

Mr. Alford and Ms. Duguid make another interesting point about the nutritional quality of brown rice:

“It is true that brown rice has more calcium and iron as well as higher protein levels and significantly more of the B vitamins [and] more fiber than white rice. But brown rice is less digestible than white . . . rice. The aleurone layer and embryo, still present in brown rice, contain phytate phosphorus, which seems to interfere with the absorption of calcium, zinc, and iron.â€

Bottom line: if you prefer white rice, just make sure you’re also eating lots of vegetables or beans with it.

Same goes for white flour products. You had one day with few vegetables -- well, so what? It's only one day. What you do on one day really doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things. It's barely a drop in the bucket. And actually, if you had more days like that, the absence of vegetables would be more problematic than the consumption of bread and butter.

By the way, I had two days recently that were short on the vegetables and the only thing I thought was "hmmm...need to eat more vegetables."

You have nothing at all to feel guilty about.

[Ragdoll]

I agree with mrsj.

And actually, if you had more days like that, the absence of vegetables would be more problematic than the consumption of bread and butter.

That's a good point. It's mentioned in the book as well...focus on eating good food instead of bad food, not eating good food as a snack, then eating bad food as a meal.

It's just such a different way of thinking, it's blown my mind! It really is so easy though. Only a week fully on the diet, and yesterday, I had to force myself to eat dinner. (I began the diet by adding each of the No S principles every 2-3 weeks over the holiday period until I was fully on the diet).

Did you guys experience this guilt when you began? Mrs J, I know you've been doing it for a good while. Does it eventually go away?

[kccc]

I understand what you're saying. I used to eat teeeeeensy meals, and thought a lot of "light" recipes were just too caloric. But... I was MORE than making up for those light meals with snacks. Lots of snacks. More than I realized, until I started No-S.

It is amazing how much you can eat at a meal when you don't eat snacks.

No guilt on this one... just eat your veggies at the next meal. It will level out in time.

I actually think one of the biggest advantages of No-S is "making peace with food" - losing all the emotional knots around normal eating.

Best wishes.

[Starla]

buttercreampillow talked about this, and what she said has stuck with me as the perfect description of the mental change involved in no S:

Sometimes it's tempting to be critical of how I eat during the day, like today when I didn't eat any fruits or veggies. (Granola and sushi.) I don't think that's a good idea (being critical). I think No S is working for me because there is no guilt or criticism. I feel that I'm doing fine, so I feel capable of doing this forever. I don't have to work to motivate myself, I don't look back on my day except to be pleased with how well it went, I look forward to each meal as something to enjoy. I don't feel frightened of food, or eating opportunities, or of myself as some kind of insatiable monster barely contained by my own frail willpower.

Isn't that beautiful?

[StrawberryRoan]

Eat real food and enjoy it.

Our ancestors didn't have the luxury of choice, yet obesity was so rare the circus displayed such people (sad but true).

We are becoming such a large nation by eating too many snacks, yes even so called healthy ones, too many low cal meals, too many diet sodas, etc etc etc.

What's wrong with a potato, a slice of bread, a pat of butter?

Uh, nothing. Add a little exercise (our ancestors called it work )

I didn't realize how many times I was reaching for a handful of pretzels, a stick of string cheese, a cup of yogurt, etc. all in the quest of eating healthy.

UNTIL I started eating three meals a day.

minky

[Ragdoll]

Thanks for all your replies, guys! Nice to have a better baseline from which to work.

I'm exercising 5 days a week, just a fast-paced walk, uphill most the way, for half an hour. Twice a week the hubby and I go to the gym. Anything more than that, and I'll do my usual of lasting 6 weeks. =)

[reinhard]

Hi Ragdoll,

Guilt? What for? Sounds like yesterday was a success!

Remember that no-s isn't about stuff, it's about structure. If you take care of the structure the stuff will take care of itself. Not every time, but often enough.

And even as far as stuff goes, there's nothing wrong with bread and butter. It was our thin great grandparents' "staff of life." If were all you ever ate, that would be a problem, but I don't think it will be.

When you only get three single plate meals a day, each plate is like a spotlight. On a purely visual level, veggies look like they should be there. Keep shining that spotlight day after day, meal after meal, and often enough, they will be. Your eyes will get it before your "conscience." Don't stress, don't feel guilty, don't add complex and exhausting extra rules. All you have to do is set the stage.

Reinhard

[oolala53]

I don't think you should feel guilty even if you ate a pound of fudge! Guilt is for being really mean or vicious with no provocation. Overeating is not a crime! This is not to say you should not be mindfu/thoughtful about your habits, but don't invent what you think you should feel. Did you feel really full after you ate? Did you feel bloated or lethargic? Resolve to end your meals feeling good from teh food, not the thoughts about the food. Although this is called a "diet," it's more about eating in moderation. On the way to moderation, you may not lose weight quickly. I would think some people, who alternately starve and binge, may not lose weight at all. But they are going to feel a lot safer around food if they have multiple experiences of eating in a sane way.

[clarinetgal]

I think your body kind of tells you what it needs. Maybe your body just didn't need vegetables that day and wanted the carbohydrates more. I'm usually pretty good about eating fruit and vegetables, but there are some days where I flat out don't want the vegetables (I much prefer fruit), so I eat other things that day. However, there are other days where I really crave veggies, so I really do think it all balances out -- as long as you eat healthfully at least most of the time.

[bluebunny27]

Feeling guilty is a GOOD sign really ... it shows that you care about what happens to you on this journey .. all that.

I don't really get the 'Don't feel guilty' people ... the way I see it if you don't feel guilty at all, it makes it really easy to cheat next time ... since it doesn't bother you much - - why not cheat again and again and again, no consequences - - making it harder to reach your goals. Feeling guilty is good when you are serious about reaching your goals, when they matter to you.

Of course everybody fails sometimes, it's nearly impossible to be perfect so the best option when you fail is to get back on the horse quickly. A one day slip up is not very significant at all when you look at the big picture and if you apply yourself 3-4 days in a row after that you will have erased the mistake. The worst thing after a bad day is to get depressed and then have another bad day, then another one, another one, another one ... finally you have had so many bad days in a row that you are way behind. This doesn't happen if it's only one day that you failed.

Making good food choices is very important. You shouldn't worry too much since you seem to know what you are doing and bahving most of the time. Plus you exercise regularly as well, even better. Just don't put a huge chunk of butter on your bread next time if it bothered you, heh.

Cheers !

Marc

37 Years Old. 5'10" Tall.
Nov. 1st. 2008 : 280 Pounds
Nov. 1st. 2009 : 190 Pounds (1 Year : - 90 Pounds)

[mrsj]

Ragdoll, I don't feel guilty. EVER! I learn from my mistakes and try not to repeat them. The sun will rise tomorrow if I don't eat very healthy today.

Guilt gives stress and Lord knows we have plenty to get stressed about-economy, relationships,children, need I go on?

In the big picture, one single day seems rather trivial.

I am also against any so called diet that eliminates a whole food group.

Also, REINHARD HAS SPOKEN!!!

[Ragdoll]

Ragdoll, I don't feel guilty. EVER! I learn from my mistakes and try not to repeat them. The sun will rise tomorrow if I don't eat very healthy today.

Guilt gives stress and Lord knows we have plenty to get stressed about-economy, relationships,children, need I go on?

In the big picture, one single day seems rather trivial.

I am also against any so called diet that eliminates a whole food group.

Also, REINHARD HAS SPOKEN!!!

Hehe, true. Let his majesty's pronouncement be praised! =)

I think the thing I realized when I looked back on the day was this:

I hadn't actually eaten THAT much food.

Breakfast: Two pieces of white bread with spreadable butter. Orange juice.

Lunch: Ham and mayo baguette, two cheese pots with crackers

Dinner: Shrimp scampi with french fries (finished half the order, gave half to hubby) and peas, and a pint of lager.

I think what worried me was that I was willfully CHOOSING these foods that felt really naughty. I thought "there's no way I can lose weight" and got a bit panicky for a minute. Then I thought...you know, a lot of people have done this a lot longer than I have. I'm going to channel this guilt into a post and see what others who have been successful think.

And it's helped...thanks for all your posts and insight!

Also...Mrs J -- are you an American ex-pat in Denmark? Hope you don't mind my asking...living in Britain, I'm always interested in other Americans who have made their home abroad!

[Cantab]

Everyone's psychology is different. Personally I found it so freeing to be able to eat normal less healthy food occasionally, as long as it's in moderation. The lesson is moderation, not perfection.

Perfection is in some senses the enemy because it can lead to immoderate behavior.

I want to tell you about my houseguest last weekend. She was a college classmate who through the hundreds of meals we ate together was so perfectionist about diet all through college, really uptight about exactly what she would eat, especially concerned about the whole low fat idea, and it worked she looked great, medium height and about size 4. It's more than a decade later now, and in the past few years she's suddenly 50 pounds over her previous weight, maybe size 16.

And she kept the exactly same eating pattern as before: she seemed to label some foods as "good" and some foods as "bad", and she felt free to eat as much of the "good" foods as she wanted. So for breakfast, I offered her a 2 egg omelette, some apples+dried fruit baked with lots of sugar (dessert from previous night), and 1% fat yogurt. She took half the omelette, saying "I couldn't possibly eat the whole thing" and then took three or four helpings of the apples with yogurt.

It's easy to see in retrospect that she didn't make a good decision, but it's a natural consequence of perfectionist ideas about some foods being "good" and some foods being "bad". She'd have been better off taking a bigger helping of the food she saw as "bad", and maybe additional food she saw as "bad", and not taking seconds or thirds of anything.

It seems to me that giving ourselves permission to eat foods that we see as less optimal choices is exactly what allows us to eat all food moderately. If we restricted ourselves to only optimal foods, we might feel permission to eat as much of them as we want. Like the Snackwells phenomenon. (Not eating 2 oreos, but instead eating an entire box of fat-free cookies.)

Does this make sense to you?

[Ragdoll]

Everyone's psychology is different. Personally I found it so freeing to be able to eat normal less healthy food occasionally, as long as it's in moderation. The lesson is moderation, not perfection.

Perfection is in some senses the enemy because it can lead to immoderate behavior.

I want to tell you about my houseguest last weekend. She was a college classmate who through the hundreds of meals we ate together was so perfectionist about diet all through college, really uptight about exactly what she would eat, especially concerned about the whole low fat idea, and it worked she looked great, medium height and about size 4. It's more than a decade later now, and in the past few years she's suddenly 50 pounds over her previous weight, maybe size 16.

And she kept the exactly same eating pattern as before: she seemed to label some foods as "good" and some foods as "bad", and she felt free to eat as much of the "good" foods as she wanted. So for breakfast, I offered her a 2 egg omelette, some apples+dried fruit baked with lots of sugar (dessert from previous night), and 1% fat yogurt. She took half the omelette, saying "I couldn't possibly eat the whole thing" and then took three or four helpings of the apples with yogurt.

It's easy to see in retrospect that she didn't make a good decision, but it's a natural consequence of perfectionist ideas about some foods being "good" and some foods being "bad". She'd have been better off taking a bigger helping of the food she saw as "bad", and maybe additional food she saw as "bad", and not taking seconds or thirds of anything.

It seems to me that giving ourselves permission to eat foods that we see as less optimal choices is exactly what allows us to eat all food moderately. If we restricted ourselves to only optimal foods, we might feel permission to eat as much of them as we want. Like the Snackwells phenomenon. (Not eating 2 oreos, but instead eating an entire box of fat-free cookies.)

Does this make sense to you?

It does indeed.

[jessdr]

Anyone else struggle with it? How do you deal with it? Is it false guilt, or should one allow oneself to be guilt free if one is sticking to the diet?

Yep. I came to No-S after The Diet That Shall Not Be Named, which looked fine on paper, but turned into highly disordered eating in practice. Most of us in the TDTSNBN forum were eating 700 calories or less per day!

After such an extreme approach, I felt a TON of guilt eating "bad" foods. But it does go away over time. Focusing on establishing the habit, rather than on immediate results helps a lot.


As for the question of whether guilt is good or bad, that's up to you. Personally, I think it's a waste of my energy. That's not to say that I ignore things that trigger guilt - I just try to understand what happened, why it happened, and how I can prevent it from happening again. Then move on.

[oolala53]

Now you got me. Cantchya puh-leeze name the diet? We do only good-hearted gloating around here...

[wosnes]

This isn't about diet, but it's a good, short read.

[clarinetgal]

That was a good, short read, and it definitely makes sense.

[wosnes]

That was a good, short read, and it definitely makes sense.

I think I put it here because she hadn't followed any prescribed diet.

[Dandelion]

I think of all the causes of disordered eating, those 'looks good on paper' diets are the most significant. The whole issue of guilt, perfection, good food and bad food, black and white. And so many of them are based on fallacies - like the idea that low fat is good for us, calories is all that counts, or that food works in our bodies the same way it works in a lab test.

I know that technically No S calls itself a 'diet' but to me it's just common sense. I had the whole 'healthy eating' thing down years ago by eliminating modern ideas about food and going back to traditional foods and cooking methods - but it wasn't until 'NoS' that I got down the rhythm of eating to go with it.

Well, it's not totally 'down' yet - but I'm getting there

[Dandelion]

Looking back over some of the posts I want to comment on white bread and butter.

Whole wheat products that are not properly prepared contain substances that bind with minerals and make them unavailable - so the whole issue of white or whole grain being more/less nutritious isn't as black and white as we're usually told.

Butter is a very nutritious food. Not only does it come with nutrients of it's own, it actually makes the nutrients in the food it's added to more available. And eating fat does not automatically make one fat.

And if you buy grass-fed butter (easy in the UK. Kerry gold is grass-fed.) you get important nutrients that are difficult to find anywhere else.

[CrazyCatLady]

After guilt, comes taste.

Early in No S I think many of us feel guilty or uncomfortable about eating certain foods while on a "diet". In time, you will find yourself choosing foods based on flavor and taste. Maybe one day you will have some lovely warm white bread with butter. Maybe instead, you will smell some fresh baked white bread, but knowing that it isn't either "allowed" or "denied", you will choose something else instead. You will say, "not today". Not because you are denying yourself, but simply because you want something else.

One last thing-enjoy what you eat. When you do chose white bread with butter, or celery with peanut butter, or fresh green salad with avocado chunks....whatever it is that you are eating, enjoy it. Savor the deliciousness.