Other Good Diet Books That Work With The No S Diet

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RJLupin
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Other Good Diet Books That Work With The No S Diet

Post by RJLupin » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:41 pm

What other books have you found that help with or are compatible with the No S Diet? I have a few that I really like, that are similar or have similar ideas.

I LOVE the book "The French Don't Diet" by Dr. William Clower. He's a neuroscientist that has written extensively about how the French eat and why they are so much thinner than Americans. He, too, recommends eating normal, regular meals at mealtimes and avoiding snacks and watching portion sizes. I especially like how he recommends avoiding "diet food" and staying away from counting calories. He's got some really good tips about really enjoying your food, and avoiding the whole "supersize" mentality. There's a lot of emphasis on eating natural, non-faux stuff and avoiding additives, as well as info on crafting an exercise plan that you both enjoy and can stick with.

"Volumetrics" by Barbara Rolls is also good, though I don't like her emphasis on eating "low fat" stuff. It shows you how you can eat a large, satisfying meal and still cut calories by eating foods with a lower energy density. By eating soups, veggies, and other stuff with a higher water content you don't have to count calories or eat tiny amounts or go hungry.

Finally, "Picture Perfect Weight Loss" by Dr. Howard Shapiro has some good ideas for S days. Similar to Volumetrics, he uses pictures to show how, by making wise food choices, you can actually eat much more and still consume fewer calories. For example, for a snack on S Days, you could have 2 2/3 oz. of potato chips ( a very small amount) OR 10 cups of air popped popcorn. 1/2 cup chocolate ice cream, OR 10 low-cal fudgsicles. If you're a chocoholic like I am, some of the advice on how to get your chocolate fix without eating a ton of calories is really useful.

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Post by wosnes » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:45 pm

I've seen both Volumetrics and Picture Perfect Weight Loss and I think they're both good and certainly compatible with No-S.

I thought Volumetrics made something rather simple entirely too complicated. It boils down to something I've said here previously: eat more of the less calorie-dense foods and less of the more calorie-dense foods.

I liked Picture Perfect Weight Loss, too. Good visuals and I linked to the web site here recently. I will say, though, that I think the examples you gave are great for people who snack regularly or who might be more concerned with volume on S days. Personally, I'd rather have some quality chocolate ice cream or chocolate mousse or even just good chocolate than 10 Fudgsicles -- though I do like Fudgsicles. Depending on the occasion, I might prefer chips to 10 cups of popcorn, too. His recipes use a lot of faux foods, though.

This is a little off-topic, but interesting about the the way French children are fed at school
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

RJLupin
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Post by RJLupin » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:48 pm

wosnes wrote:I've seen both Volumetrics and Picture Perfect Weight Loss and I think they're both good and certainly compatible with No-S.

I thought Volumetrics made something rather simple entirely too complicated. It boils down to something I've said here previously: eat more of the less calorie-dense foods and less of the more calorie-dense foods.

I liked Picture Perfect Weight Loss, too. Good visuals and I linked to the web site here recently. I will say, though, that I think the examples you gave are great for people who snack regularly or who might be more concerned with volume on S days. Personally, I'd rather have some quality chocolate ice cream or chocolate mousse or even just good chocolate than 10 Fudgsicles -- though I do like Fudgsicles. Depending on the occasion, I might prefer chips to 10 cups of popcorn, too. His recipes use a lot of faux foods, though.

This is a little off-topic, but interesting about the the way French children are fed at school
Yeah, he does use a lot of faux foods which I am normally not a fan of. I, too, would rather have some good dark chocolate instead of a fudgesicle ( no matter how many!) but it's one of those things where I sometimes get carried away. If I bought good chocolate, I am afraid I might eat too much but with a fudgesicle, I would really probably stop at one. On Saturday I am going to a local place called "Chocolate Secrets" with a friend. They make gourmet truffles, and they are incredible! Costly, too, so I won't get more than one.

I prefer his meal exampled to his snack examples. I think they're especially good for dining out, because you can look at the pics and see how much of a full plate you can get making smarter choices. I go out to eat a lot with friends, and theoretically one could still not lose or even gain following the No S Diet if you picked really unhealthy stuff, so I kind of use his book to help me make smart (but still tasty) choices.

I confess I do use some soy products, like veggie burgers and faux chicken patties. God knows what's in them, but they are easy to make and I honestly don't like much meat anymore. I very much like rich cheeses and such, but I don't keep them around because I know I have a problem with them.

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Post by kccc » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:10 am

wosnes wrote:

This is a little off-topic, but interesting about the the way French children are fed at school
Wosnes, I am now terrified. We are hosting a 10-year-old French child for two weeks in May, and while I'm a decent cook, I wouldn't say I was I was a gourmet cook. And we do eat fast. And my own child's manners need work, despite my best efforts.

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Post by kccc » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:14 am

More on topic.... I just like Michael Pollen's work (which isn't really a diet book) and several cookbook authors who use "real" food. Mark Bittmann's Express is my newest fave (thanks to Wosnes).

But I've done a lot of diets in the past, so I know calorie counts, etc., rather intuitively after all these years.

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Post by wosnes » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:35 am

RJLupin wrote:I confess I do use some soy products, like veggie burgers and faux chicken patties. God knows what's in them, but they are easy to make and I honestly don't like much meat anymore. I very much like rich cheeses and such, but I don't keep them around because I know I have a problem with them.
I used to use some, too, until one day I looked at the ingredients label. Then I decided that I was better off eating the real thing than the soy version.

KCCC -- I didn't mean to scare you!

Last night I was looking at the reviews of a cookbook meant to be family-friendly. A number of the reviewers said that the meals weren't kid-friendly. My thought was "they haven't gone to school in Paris." Of course, we've dumbed-down food to make it kid friendly, unlike just about any other culture in the world.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

RJLupin
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Post by RJLupin » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:13 pm

wosnes wrote:
RJLupin wrote:I confess I do use some soy products, like veggie burgers and faux chicken patties. God knows what's in them, but they are easy to make and I honestly don't like much meat anymore. I very much like rich cheeses and such, but I don't keep them around because I know I have a problem with them.
I used to use some, too, until one day I looked at the ingredients label. Then I decided that I was better off eating the real thing than the soy version.

KCCC -- I didn't mean to scare you!

Last night I was looking at the reviews of a cookbook meant to be family-friendly. A number of the reviewers said that the meals weren't kid-friendly. My thought was "they haven't gone to school in Paris." Of course, we've dumbed-down food to make it kid friendly, unlike just about any other culture in the world.
Ideally, I wouldn't eat them either. They are full of weird stuff and there is some debate that too much soy might be bad. It's just hard to plan an easy, meat-free meal without using them.

I love the Better Homes and Gardens cookbook, as well as anything by Paula Deen. I know the big joke about her is that she uses huge amounts of butter, but many of her entree dishes are pretty tasty. No weird ingredients, and no "low fat" alterations. I also have the Slow Cooker Bible, which is good, real food. If I want to go fancy I use Nigella Lawson.

When I was little, we ate the sorts of things that would make the current "nutritionists" faint. Whole mlk , pork chops, fried chicken. My parents didn't give up "kid" food, and we never ate anything out of a box except for frozen veggies sometimes. Still, we were all pretty thin. We did do rather No S; we weren't really allowed to have huge portions, and we never really snacked. We got sodas maybe once a week. It wasn't until my mom started to work and we started eating irregularly, with more fast food and boxed stuff, that my sister and I started having weight problems.

I am sort of basing my No S eating plan around the food I grew up on. Not that I will eat fried chicken every day, but it's nice to know I can have it if I want it. Already, my food cravings are MUCH, much less than before I started eating this way. Because there aren't any "bad" foods, and because I am not trying to eat "diet" food that I hate, I just don't have the obsession with overeating that I did. I think, in time, if I stick with this most of my food anxiety will vanish, and I will be able to do my No S without really thinking about it.

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Post by wosnes » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:11 pm

RJLupin -- I agree about Paula Deen. Are you familiar with The Pioneer Woman? I'm also fond of Martha Stewart's Everyday Food magazine/cookbooks/TV show/blog.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

RJLupin
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Post by RJLupin » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:00 am

wosnes wrote:RJLupin -- I agree about Paula Deen. Are you familiar with The Pioneer Woman? I'm also fond of Martha Stewart's Everyday Food magazine/cookbooks/TV show/blog.
I was not aware of The Pioneer Woman, but looking at the site now. That pot roast looks amazing! I will have to try and do one for this weekend maybe. I also clip a lot of recipes out of the newspaper and save them, have gotten some really good stuff that way. I live alone and it's just me, though, so normally I don't cook much since I don't ever eat it all.

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Post by oolala53 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:27 am

This isn't a diet book, but there are diet books that have recommended it as a guideline.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/oct/2 ... se-weight/

It's probably too limited for some No S-ers to start with, but it's my guideline for lunch and dinner, with a piece of fruit tucked in there somewhere. If I want to add a slice of cheese or some nut butter for richness, I do. I think that is one of the main reasons I'll be completing 8 weeks of No S-ing tonight.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
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1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Post by wosnes » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:46 am

I also cook for one and cut most things down to size. Tonight I made penne with bacon and spinach (also had garlic and balsamic). Very good.

I've had very good luck with some of Pioneer Woman's recipes -- and not so much luck with others. I should clarify that: all of them have turned out. Some I've liked a lot; some not so much. By and large they get rave reviews from the 300 or so people who comment on each one.
Last edited by wosnes on Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by pirateman2k » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:29 am

Paleo is the new Vegan.

The truth is that people have gotten lean on high carb, low carb, vegetarian, meat, prepackaged, and all natural diets. It really doesn't matter as long as you figure out a way to eat fewer calories than you burn over a long period of time.

That being said, I find eating relatively low carbohydrate (easy on the sugar, moderate on the starch, heavy on the veggies) makes it easier to eat fewer calories.

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Post by sophiasapientia » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:49 pm

I use "The 9-inch Plate Diet" in conjunction with No S. Basically it focuses on how our plate sizes, and therefore our portion sizes, have increased since 1970 or so, correlating with the obesity epidemic. It isn't a profound book -- it is heavy on the visuals and could be summed up in a few pages, really -- but it inspired me to use 9-inch plates (even smaller for breakfast) at home.

Outside of good 'ol cookbooks, in terms of what to eat on No S, I'm another fan of Michael Pollan. I like Andrew Weil's books. Recently, I've been reading "The Jungle Effect: A Doctor Discovers the Healthiest Diets from Around the World -- Why They Work and How to Bring Them Home" which is endorsed by both Pollan and Weil and have found some useful tips. I additionally loved Barbara Kingsolver's biographical "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" and it's focus on eating fresh, in season, locally grown food as much as possible (not so easy here in the midwestern US during the winter months, lol.) We certainly aren't perfect in terms of the what at my house but we are making changes and headed in a direction I feel good about.
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Post by wosnes » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:36 pm

sophiasapientia wrote:
Outside of good 'ol cookbooks, in terms of what to eat on No S, I'm another fan of Michael Pollan. I like Andrew Weil's books. Recently, I've been reading "The Jungle Effect: A Doctor Discovers the Healthiest Diets from Around the World -- Why They Work and How to Bring Them Home" which is endorsed by both Pollan and Weil and have found some useful tips. I additionally loved Barbara Kingsolver's biographical "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" and it's focus on eating fresh, in season, locally grown food as much as possible (not so easy here in the midwestern US during the winter months, lol.) We certainly aren't perfect in terms of the what at my house but we are making changes and headed in a direction I feel good about.
Sounds like you and I read similar stuff. I loved The Jungle Effect.. One of the things I particularly liked is that she didn't cherry pick foods from different cultures and tell us to eat them -- like many other authors and experts have done. I was impressed by the simplicity of the various ways of eating and also the often limited variety of foods. The common denominator? Food. Real food.

I'm also with you on the difficulty of eating locally in the midwest during winter. Technically, I could probably do it, but procuring food would be a full time job. Also, expensive. I don't find it to be less expensive during the growing season. The most expensive grocery stores are usually the same price or cheaper than the farmer's markets.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by RJLupin » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:38 pm

We have a really good farmer's market here in Dallas, and I love to go there and get different foods in season. I'm especially a big fan of corn on the cob (which I like to grill, with butter and lime) and strawberries.

I need to get my mom to teach me her stew recipe. She makes the best beef stew ever, and during the winter it was our favourite meal. Nothing but good veggies and meat, yum!

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Post by wosnes » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:57 pm

RJLupin wrote:We have a really good farmer's market here in Dallas, and I love to go there and get different foods in season. I'm especially a big fan of corn on the cob (which I like to grill, with butter and lime) and strawberries.

I need to get my mom to teach me her stew recipe. She makes the best beef stew ever, and during the winter it was our favourite meal. Nothing but good veggies and meat, yum!
I make a good beef stew, but this one is very good, too. I cut it in half except for the mushrooms, which I left the same. It was outstanding! I could have cooked it a little longer, but it was the meat I used, not the recipe, that was the issue.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by sophiasapientia » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:05 pm

Yum! Beef stew! :)

Those who have good farmers markets year round are fortunate indeed. We have a farmer's shop close to our house but it is only open late spring through the end of October. I do try to shop there as much as I can, though! Can't wait until it opens this year. :) :)
Restarted No S (3rd times a charm!) January 2010 at 145 lbs

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Post by Jammin' Jan » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:45 pm

I am really trying to incorporate Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" into my No-S menus.
"Self-denial's a great sweetener of pleasure."
(Patrick McGoohan's "The Prisoner")

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Post by wosnes » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:23 pm

Jammin' Jan wrote:I am really trying to incorporate Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" into my No-S menus.
Me, too. Okay, this is going to be a rant (and there's a connection to Food Rules).

I've mentioned it here before, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about healthy food: healthy food, healthy recipes, healthy meals, eating healthy. Healthy schmealthy -- I'm sick of it.

And then it occurred to me: the first section of Food Rules is called "Eat Food." Not eat "healthy" food. "Food" promotes health. Edible food-like substances don't. The French, Italians, Greeks, Japanese and others we could emulate eat food. They eat for pleasure. They are healthy.

And that's probably the shortest rant I've ever written!
Last edited by wosnes on Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by oolala53 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:31 pm

I didn't pay much attention to the recommended daily calorie counts in [u]The Omega Plan[/u] (don't know why my program won't incorporate the text editing features), but its emphasis on delicious fats and fresh food has made a pretty big impact on my meal makeup. Paradoxically, with its French emphasis on dairy--highest consumption of the Mediterranean countries, but lowest heart disease rate--The Fat Fallacy also helped assuage my fears of not going low fat. I do like Reinhard's idea of not limiting food types during the week to help get over food prejudices, but for people who really don't know of life beyond potato chips, some diet books help widen their experiences. I guess good cookbooks could do the same. I've relied on very basic cooking techniques for meal elements and commercial sauces for so long, I'm out of touch with cookbooks.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

RJLupin
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Post by RJLupin » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:49 pm

wosnes wrote:
Jammin' Jan wrote:I am really trying to incorporate Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" into my No-S menus.
Me, too. Okay, this is going to be a rant (and there's a connection to Food Rules.

I've mentioned it here before, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about healthy food: healthy food, healthy recipes, healthy meals, eating healthy. Healthy schmealthy -- I'm sick of it.

And then it occurred to me: the first section of Food Rules is called "Eat Food." Not eat "healthy" food. "Food" promotes health. Edible food-like substances don't. The French, Italians, Greeks, Japanese and others we could emulate eat food. They eat for pleasure. They are healthy.

And that's probably the shortest rant I've ever written!
I absolutely agree. For some weird reason, "healthy" in America has come to mean "boxed, all of the natural ingredients removed and replaced with "low fat" substitutes, and tasteless." And don't even get me started on those "healthy" recipes where they take out all the butter and replace it with apple sauce or something. "You won't ever know the difference" they claim, but you always do.

It's so odd how we try and tackle the obesity crisis here. Instead of looking at how people in countries that are naturally thin eat (France, etc) or how we ate when we were thin ourselves, we latch on to lab studies and various theoretical ideas (fats are bad, carbs are bad!) as though they were some Holy Grail unknown to previous generations. I truly believe this has made things worse, since not only does it encourage behavior that causes weight gain (snacking) but it also distorts people's relationships with food.

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Post by oolala53 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:00 pm

Oh, I forgot. I took a macrobiotic cooking class once that used delicious recipes, but the cookbook Basic Macrobiotic Cooking had a lot of the necessary info, especially on cooking whole grains, which most of us never saw cooked growing up. Even my grandparents used Uncle Ben's. I still prefer cooked whole rye over any grain. Doesn't taste anything like rye bread, which almost always has caraway in it-a very overpowering taste I do NOT like. I have found some wonderful dense whole grain breads based on European recipes, but now I'm getting off the book topic.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:00 pm

RJLupin wrote:
wosnes wrote:
Jammin' Jan wrote:I am really trying to incorporate Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" into my No-S menus.
Me, too. Okay, this is going to be a rant (and there's a connection to Food Rules.

I've mentioned it here before, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about healthy food: healthy food, healthy recipes, healthy meals, eating healthy. Healthy schmealthy -- I'm sick of it.

And then it occurred to me: the first section of Food Rules is called "Eat Food." Not eat "healthy" food. "Food" promotes health. Edible food-like substances don't. The French, Italians, Greeks, Japanese and others we could emulate eat food. They eat for pleasure. They are healthy.

And that's probably the shortest rant I've ever written!
I absolutely agree. For some weird reason, "healthy" in America has come to mean "boxed, all of the natural ingredients removed and replaced with "low fat" substitutes, and tasteless." And don't even get me started on those "healthy" recipes where they take out all the butter and replace it with apple sauce or something. "You won't ever know the difference" they claim, but you always do.

It's so odd how we try and tackle the obesity crisis here. Instead of looking at how people in countries that are naturally thin eat (France, etc) or how we ate when we were thin ourselves, we latch on to lab studies and various theoretical ideas (fats are bad, carbs are bad!) as though they were some Holy Grail unknown to previous generations. I truly believe this has made things worse, since not only does it encourage behavior that causes weight gain (snacking) but it also distorts people's relationships with food.
I think healthy food has gotten a bad reputation. At best it's seen either as being as tasteless as cardboard or unappetizing rabbit food, at worst, swill for the compost heap.

I remember being stunned when reading The Mediterranean Heart Diet and realizing that the Greeks and Italians ate full-fat dairy products and were healthy. I was equally as stunned when I realized that most low-fat foods were not "food", but edible food-like substances.

Food tastes so much better and is more satisfying on all levels.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by wosnes » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:36 pm

RJLupin wrote: It's just hard to plan an easy, meat-free meal without using them.
I don't think it's difficult to plan a meat free meal without the faux meats. You just have to learn not to think of meat as the main dish, though. If you're planning American style meals, it's pretty difficult. Also more difficult if you decide not to use dairy and eggs.

The Italians and Greeks (and many others) have many meat-free main dishes. Many have versions of dishes that include meat and versions that don't.

I'm particularly fond of the cuisines of the Mediterranean, and there is a wealth of meatless main dishes in those cuisines. There are many dishes based on pasta or rice or beans or some combination of those. Many cuisines (Asian, Central and South American, Mediterranean) have main dishes based on a grain or starch (pasta, rice or potatoes, for instance) with fried or poached eggs. I've done that with all of them -- they're great, simple, satisfying (and quick!!) meals.

There are some ideas here, too. Some include meat, but it can easily be omitted. I've done that with the Poorman's Meal many times.

While not difficult, they may be a little more time consuming, but there are vegetarian versions of lasagna, moussaka, pastitsio and so on.

I also recently learned that Italians don't always consider pancetta or prosciutto to be "meat". They're considered flavorings for dishes -- just like onion and garlic.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by RJLupin » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:04 am

I need to start cooking with more seafood, which I LOVE, but it's so expensive. I do love to cook pasta, but I always feel like I need some protein along with my carbs. I do eat eggs and dairy, and I do eat meat, I just don't really like chicken breasts or such. I don't have any problem with ground meat, though.

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Post by wosnes » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:10 am

RJLupin wrote:I need to start cooking with more seafood, which I LOVE, but it's so expensive. I do love to cook pasta, but I always feel like I need some protein along with my carbs. I do eat eggs and dairy, and I do eat meat, I just don't really like chicken breasts or such. I don't have any problem with ground meat, though.
Do you cook just for you?

I feel the same way about seafood -- I LOVE it, but it's so expensive. I do frequently buy (about once a month) a bag of 21/25 shrimp. It always seems expensive, but it usually gives me 3-4 meals. They're a bargain compared to tilapia, salmon or any other fish filet which costs about the same, but only feeds me one meal.

People of many cultures have based their meals on some kind of carbs adding meat only when they could afford it -- which was usually pretty rarely. Often, beans were combined with the grains. Most have used eggs with the grains in some dishes, and some used dairy products.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Post by reinhard » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:46 am

I think I'm going to stick with this. :-)

Although I'm rather fond of this, too.

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Post by TunaFishKid » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 pm

wosnes wrote:
Jammin' Jan wrote:I am really trying to incorporate Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" into my No-S menus.
Me, too. Okay, this is going to be a rant (and there's a connection to Food Rules.

I've mentioned it here before, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about healthy food: healthy food, healthy recipes, healthy meals, eating healthy. Healthy schmealthy -- I'm sick of it.

And then it occurred to me: the first section of Food Rules is called "Eat Food." Not eat "healthy" food. "Food" promotes health. Edible food-like substances don't. The French, Italians, Greeks, Japanese and others we could emulate eat food. They eat for pleasure. They are healthy.

And that's probably the shortest rant I've ever written!
Great rant, wosnes! :D

I think the reason we're so obsessed with "healthy" eating is that we gave over food and meal preparation to big companies, which only know how to make "edible food-like substances" which have made us sick. So then we became suspicious of food, instead of reaizing that it was fake food that was killing us.
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Post by TunaFishKid » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:34 pm

pirateman2k wrote:Paleo is the new Vegan.
That line really cracked me up, because I just watched THIS last night. :D
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Post by wosnes » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:02 pm

oolala53 wrote:This isn't a diet book, but there are diet books that have recommended it as a guideline.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/oct/2 ... se-weight/

It's probably too limited for some No S-ers to start with, but it's my guideline for lunch and dinner, with a piece of fruit tucked in there somewhere. If I want to add a slice of cheese or some nut butter for richness, I do. I think that is one of the main reasons I'll be completing 8 weeks of No S-ing tonight.
I'm currently cooking dinners for my neighbor. I'm using partitioned plates. I put the meat/main dish and starch in the biggest space and vegetables in the two smaller spaces. It's working very well.

I like a bigger bowl (1½-2 cups) for soups, especially since soup is most often my main dish at lunch. Most broth-based soups aren't that high in calories and 1 cup wouldn't be nearly enough to last me until dinner.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Amen!

Post by bluewillow » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:21 pm

wosnes wrote:
Jammin' Jan wrote:I am really trying to incorporate Michael Pollan's "Food Rules" into my No-S menus.
Me, too. Okay, this is going to be a rant (and there's a connection to Food Rules.

I've mentioned it here before, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about healthy food: healthy food, healthy recipes, healthy meals, eating healthy. Healthy schmealthy -- I'm sick of it. AMEN AMEN AMEN!!! I'm so GLAD somebody else feels the same way I do!!!

And then it occurred to me: the first section of Food Rules is called "Eat Food." Not eat "healthy" food. "Food" promotes health. Edible food-like substances don't. The French, Italians, Greeks, Japanese and others we could emulate eat food. They eat for pleasure. They are healthy. I can't believe what junk (the food-like crap) that is in our supermarkets now. I plan to check out the Food Rules book too to go along with The No S.!!!

And that's probably the shortest rant I've ever written!
Wosnes, I love your "rant" and I added my own two cents worth to it!!! I just received The No S Diet book in the mail today and can't wait to get started reading! I sure enjoy reading the posts here, and I am learning so much from everyone! Thank you and Happy No S-ing!!!

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Post by oolala53 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:14 pm

That line really cracked me up, because I just watched THIS last night. Oops, I tried cutting and pasting this from TunaFishKid on Mar. 2, in a post about paleo being the new vegan.


That clip is hilarious! altho I'm not sure my vegetarian friends would think so.

Also, though it has been scoffed at here for being unnecessarily scientific, though I've mentioned it on other threads, and though it may be too strict to start with and many may get there without Richards' rules, I still say Mastering Leptin is a good adjunct to No S.
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Post by FarmerHal » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:25 pm

I like the Paleo Diet. Although I still eat some grains with the GF stuff. My ultimate goal is to eat paleo style though. I feel my absolute best on it.
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Post by cowfishpro » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:00 pm

Have any of you heard of the Full Plate Diet? It advocates increasing your fiber slowly over time. The premise is to eat your fiber first so that you get full sooner and won't want to eat as much of other things on your plate that may be less healthy.

I, myself, struggle wiht this, as my stomach seems more sensitvie as I age. But it's an interesting way to reduce calories without counting them. Sort of like NoS, but with a a macronutrient focus.

Of course, I am using NoS as my primary "diet". :D

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Post by Thalia » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:44 pm

I've read a lot of things that I think mesh well with No S, although most of them aren't "diet" books.

French Women Don't Get Fat -- I find the author insufferable, with her sniffing about those horrible, horrible fat uncultured Americans -- so I kind of hate big sections of this book. but her approach to food and exercise is very No S: walk a lot, eat real food that tastes good in reasonable amounts instead of eating a ton of diet crap, learn to cook, enjoy whatever you eat and eat it off a plate, everything in moderation. Plus she gives scarf-tying tips, which Reinhard is light on. :wink:

Anything by M.F.K. Fisher -- A wonderful, wonderful writer who emphasizes how much we lose when we think of food as fuel or our enemy. Very inspirational.

The Art of Simple Food, Alice Waters -- Yum, yum, yum. Real food full of butter AND fresh vegetables. I love everything I've ever cooked out of here.

Every cookbook Mark Bittman has ever written. Easy recipes full of real ingredients from a guy who loves to eat.

Honey from a Weed: Feasting and Fasting, I forget the author's name -- Prudence or Patience Gray? A beautiful book about traditional foodways in several parts of the Mediterranean. Seasonal eating with local ingredients, including both great feasts and lengthy religious fasts ("fasting' here doesn't mean not eating, just eating very simple, restricted meals, usually for religious reasons). Really reinforces the pleasure of indulgence is lost without periods of austerity to make it special and meaningful. People who observe fast periods like Lent enjoy the feasts that follow them in the way that modern Americans, who eat everything all the time, can hardly even imagine. This book really highlights one of the great advantages of the No S N- and S-day cycle that has nothing at all to do with weightloss and appearance, and everything to do with pleasure and mindfulness.

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Post by Over43 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:15 pm

RJLupin wrote:
wosnes wrote:
RJLupin wrote:I confess I do use some soy products, like veggie burgers and faux chicken patties. God knows what's in them, but they are easy to make and I honestly don't like much meat anymore. I very much like rich cheeses and such, but I don't keep them around because I know I have a problem with them.
I used to use some, too, until one day I looked at the ingredients label. Then I decided that I was better off eating the real thing than the soy version.

KCCC -- I didn't mean to scare you!

Last night I was looking at the reviews of a cookbook meant to be family-friendly. A number of the reviewers said that the meals weren't kid-friendly. My thought was "they haven't gone to school in Paris." Of course, we've dumbed-down food to make it kid friendly, unlike just about any other culture in the world.
Ideally, I wouldn't eat them either. They are full of weird stuff and there is some debate that too much soy might be bad. It's just hard to plan an easy, meat-free meal without using them.

I love the Better Homes and Gardens cookbook, as well as anything by Paula Deen. I know the big joke about her is that she uses huge amounts of butter, but many of her entree dishes are pretty tasty. No weird ingredients, and no "low fat" alterations. I also have the Slow Cooker Bible, which is good, real food. If I want to go fancy I use Nigella Lawson.

When I was little, we ate the sorts of things that would make the current "nutritionists" faint. Whole mlk , pork chops, fried chicken. My parents didn't give up "kid" food, and we never ate anything out of a box except for frozen veggies sometimes. Still, we were all pretty thin. We did do rather No S; we weren't really allowed to have huge portions, and we never really snacked. We got sodas maybe once a week. It wasn't until my mom started to work and we started eating irregularly, with more fast food and boxed stuff, that my sister and I started having weight problems.

I am sort of basing my No S eating plan around the food I grew up on. Not that I will eat fried chicken every day, but it's nice to know I can have it if I want it. Already, my food cravings are MUCH, much less than before I started eating this way. Because there aren't any "bad" foods, and because I am not trying to eat "diet" food that I hate, I just don't have the obsession with overeating that I did. I think, in time, if I stick with this most of my food anxiety will vanish, and I will be able to do my No S without really thinking about it.
Butter makes the world a better place. I cook with butter, and cream when need be. I am still losing weight.

The rumor is, before she died (at 94) Dean Ornish asked Julia Child to create some recipes for his rather Spartan diet approach. She refused, saying that it wasn't her philosophy of eating. Again, that is just internet gossip, so I don't know how accurate it is.
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Post by Over43 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:17 pm

cowfishpro wrote:Have any of you heard of the Full Plate Diet? It advocates increasing your fiber slowly over time. The premise is to eat your fiber first so that you get full sooner and won't want to eat as much of other things on your plate that may be less healthy.

I, myself, struggle wiht this, as my stomach seems more sensitvie as I age. But it's an interesting way to reduce calories without counting them. Sort of like NoS, but with a a macronutrient focus.

Of course, I am using NoS as my primary "diet". :D
I have never heard of the "Full Plate Diet", but my strategy is, to eat the meat first, my theory is, it fills you up better.
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man

I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79

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Post by wosnes » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:10 pm

It's not internet rumor about Dean Ornish being refused by Julia Child. It's in his book Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease.

I've heard of the Full Plate Diet, but, to me, it's just another incarnation of various high-fiber diets. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing spectacular, either.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Post by Over43 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:55 am

wosnes wrote:It's not internet rumor about Dean Ornish being refused by Julia Child. It's in his book Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing Heart Disease.

I've heard of the Full Plate Diet, but, to me, it's just another incarnation of various high-fiber diets. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing spectacular, either.
Thank you for the info. It's good when rumors are true.
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man

I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79

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Post by groovy1 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:04 am

I couldn't find the original quote to cut and paste about eating your fiber first because it fills you up - I've also read to eat clear soup first or salad first or an apple or a grapefruit an hour beforehand. My experience is that (1) I really like No S so far, although I am a newbie and have only been on the plan for 6 days, so that means no food an hour before a meal, although sometimes I like a cup of tea to take the edge off. (2) I firmly believe in eating what is most appealing first. Some of this dates back to a backpacking trip about 40 years ago when I saved the best food for last and it was all stolen by a bear and I had to walk out of Yosemite about 17 miles that day without any food. But the other reason is that sometimes some of what is most appealing is very satisfying and I don't wind up eating some of the rest of what is on the plate. I usually eat the salad near the end unless I am really hankering for it. I save the fruit and nuts for last, at dinner, and the last two nights one or both went back into the fridge. Just my way of doing it.

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Post by oolala53 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:59 am

I think the problem with plans that recommend eating the fiber first is that it's too soon to make that the priority. I think the wisdom of No S is that some people need to start by having whatever they want on their plate. I've said on other threads that my big issue was/is bingeing. I already ate meals of about half dense foods and half vegetable/salads. I still way overeat on S days, but I go right back to N days, which I could never do before. I believe the bingeing will decrease as time goes on.
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Post by Kathleen » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:41 pm

Move a Little, Lose a Lot by Dr. James A. Levine.

I haven't even gotten through half of the book, and I'm already convinced that amount of exercise does impact weight. I always thought it was silly -- a mile walk would make up for one cracker, so why bother?

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Post by BrightAngel » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:49 pm

Kathleen wrote:Move a Little, Lose a Lot by Dr. James A. Levine.

I haven't even gotten through half of the book, and I'm already convinced that amount of exercise does impact weight. I always thought it was silly -- a mile walk would make up for one cracker, so why bother?
I read that book and liked it.
However, based on the exercise that he recommends,
I think the title should have been....
Move a Lot, Lose a Little

When you've finished the book,
I'd like to know what you think of his Food Plan,
and the way it fits together with his Exercise Plan.
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Post by pirateman2k » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:46 pm

Favorite books right now are Good Calories, Bad Calories (science and history dense) and Mindless Eating (thanks Reinhard). I also like Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon--google for his websites if you're interested.

I find that doing two 24 hour fasts a week capped with a regular N day dinner with three regular N days with two VERY liberal S days a week has led to 1-2 lbs of fat off per week. I urban range about 5 miles on both S & N days (10,000 steps) and weight train 3-4x a week with yoga 1-3x days a week (usually just train on N days, but I'll do some foam rolling and yoga to tune up if I'm feeling stiff on an S day). I do restrict starches in that I don't base my meal around starch, but I don't shoo it off my plate either. This is simple and very manageable compared to the 6 meal a day, carb cycling, tons of supplements plus hard interval training madness I was subjecting myself to before.

Might be overkill for most, especially the training schedule (I have been training for 15 years so I'm adapted to it. I think I could live with 14 minutes a day but I actually LIKE training), but I would definitely recommend adding a 24 hour fast sometime between Monday and Thursday if your fat loss has stalled on the NoS approach. This brackets your fast with at least one N day to soften the bit of extra hunger that you get.

There are some promising studies that seem to indicate that your weight drops very quickly during a fast but doesn't return immediately; it takes about 10 days to replenish the fat stores. If you fast once a week, then, you should be able to lose weight with no other dietary changes.

My google-fu is weak right now, but I can dig up the study if needed. Also, fasting has some of the benefits of CRON (Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition), including cardio and neuroprotective benefits. I have some MD friends who are very high on fasting, partially because it fits so well with their lifestyle (surgeons who are in surgery for up to 20 hours at a time).

Re: paleo--I think this a great jumping off point, though I think in 'orthodox' paleo, the saturated fats are too low. (Seriously.) It sounds like Dr. Cordain has softened his stance somewhat on this point however if you read his blog.

Really, though, who can argue with free range meats, vegetables, fruits and nuts as the basis for a healthy diet?

Oh yeah. Vegans.

Dogma takes the fun out of eating.

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Post by Kathleen » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:25 am

Hi BrightAngel,
I skimmed through the rest of the book. What I'm realizing about myself is that I seem to binge if there is any restriction on food, and it's totally irrelevant whether the restricted amount is called calories, points, or -- in the case of this book -- "fuel cells".

What I like about the book is the idea of building exercise into your day. I decided that I would return the book to the library and read it again in a few months. In the meantime, I have a goal of walking the dog twice a day for a mile (she'll really like that!) and increasing physical activity in ways that do not increase time spent. An example was waiting for my kids after they finished up swim team and were showering. Instead of plopping in a chair, I went outside and took a little walk.

Kathleen

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Post by marygrace » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:14 pm

I read a book this weekend that I think most NoSers would love. It's called Fit From Within by Victoria Moran. It was actually extremely similar to NoS in that it advocated 3 meals a day of real, whole foods you love along with the occasional indulgence. But that was only a small part of the book, as Moran really sought to address the whole person (or woman, really--this book is definitely geared towards women who have struggled with their weight and body image, though the more general messages could apply equally for men). She also identified tons of reasons why people overeat, and how it ends up hurting you emotionally as well as physically, which I found very interesting and even recognized many of the things in myself.

I'd recommend this book to anyone, but especially to women who have been stuck in a binge/diet cycle for too many years.

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Post by RJLupin » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:16 am

marygrace wrote:I read a book this weekend that I think most NoSers would love. It's called Fit From Within by Victoria Moran. It was actually extremely similar to NoS in that it advocated 3 meals a day of real, whole foods you love along with the occasional indulgence. But that was only a small part of the book, as Moran really sought to address the whole person (or woman, really--this book is definitely geared towards women who have struggled with their weight and body image, though the more general messages could apply equally for men). She also identified tons of reasons why people overeat, and how it ends up hurting you emotionally as well as physically, which I found very interesting and even recognized many of the things in myself.

I'd recommend this book to anyone, but especially to women who have been stuck in a binge/diet cycle for too many years.
That book sounds good. I know there are definitely emotional aspects to my weight problems. When I get disappointed in some way (especially romantically) I tend to overeat to "punish" myself for having failed. Or, I would go on a strict diet (before No S) and then, inevitably, I would cheat and end up gorging on junk.

To this day, I am sure my body imagine must be distorted. I mean, I know I am too heavy; that's not imaginary. However, I see myself as being almost unspeakably hideous and ugly, and that can't be true or I wouldn't have any friends.

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diet books

Post by paulawylma » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:25 pm

Completary diet books: French Women Don't Get Fat and A French Woman for All Seasons. French Women. . .have three stages and No S fits in nicely with the first stage. After that you get into courses and eating sweets during the week, which is not no s. Both books talk about seasonally. Which brings us to my cookbook recommendation: Simply in Season by Mary Beth Lind and Cathleen Hockman-Wert. The book is divided into seasons and gives recipes for fresh foods as they are in season.

I'd like to be able to recommend The Cookbook for Poor Poets (and others) and the New Cookbook for Poor Poets (and others) by Ann Roders, which I discovered over 20 years ago at a public library, but I can't. they are both out of print (pub in the 60s and 70s) and when found are so hideously expensive that no poor poet (or other) could possibly afford them! :D

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Re: diet books

Post by wosnes » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:02 pm

paulawylma wrote: I'd like to be able to recommend The Cookbook for Poor Poets (and others) and the New Cookbook for Poor Poets (and others) by Ann Roders, which I discovered over 20 years ago at a public library, but I can't. they are both out of print (pub in the 60s and 70s) and when found are so hideously expensive that no poor poet (or other) could possibly afford them! :D
The Cookbook for Poor Poets is available for about $6.00 (used) at Amazon.
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Post by Kathleen » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:19 pm

BrightAnel,
The dog really likes the idea of two walks per day! It's not exactly following the script of the book Move a Little, Lose a Lot, but it's closer than what I was doing.
Kathleen

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Post by groovy1 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:17 pm

I highly recommend "Eat What You Love, Love What You Eat" by Michelle May. It is really directed at what she calls the "eat, repent, repeat" cycle. (Not a book for those who suddenly realize they have gradually put on a few more pounds and then turn to No S and it easily comes off, like many men, including our wonderful founder, Reinhard, to whom I am deeply grateful.)

Anyway - the book spoke directly to me and I have found that it stuck with me, although I intend to go back periodically and reread it. On its face, it would seem to contradict No S, because it is about getting away from the rules of restrictive eating and learning to eat intuitively. However, I am convinced that without it, No S would have been a failure for me because I would have stuck doggedly to it even though one night out of the last 19 I was too hungry and really needed the tiny little mini-meal I ate - 2 Rykrisps with a couple of spoonsful of cottage cheese and half a banana. That little minimeal, no more than 150 calories, is what saved me. But now having read the No S book, in the same situation I would opt for a glass of milk instead.

I also think the book without No S might have been a disaster, like all my other experiments with intuitive eating. However, this book is different from any of the others I read because she is so specific about how to handle the problems that lead someone like me into both the overeating part of the cycle and the over-restriction part of the cycle. So far the combination of the guidelines from this book and vanilla No S has worked very very well for me. Of course, it's only day 19. I will have really achieved a milestone if I can make it to the end of the month without an episode of serious overeating.

Maybe the most useful tip in terms of how frequently I use it is that of setting the intention before eating of how full I want to get on a 1 to 10 scale, which does help. To lose weight, need to stop at 5. However, a special meal on an S day, I'm OK to go to 6. Beyond that and I get too uncomfortable. Another great tip, which I think might also be in No S, is to make a "speed bump" at the halfway part and stop eating for a few minutes. Then go back if still hungry, which so far I have always been. But I make a second speed bump half way through the last half, and I have not always finished that.

The other thing she suggests is that if you want to eat something that has triggered an overeating episode in the past, you should, but only if you "really really really really" want it. Of the 4 or 5 trigger foods for me, I have eaten 3 of them without any problem. And the other 2 have not passed the "4 reallys" test yet. Of course, that doesn't mean all that much - I don't tend to overeat during the restrictive part of my cyclical pattern. But I think eating these foods at all, which I have not done during the restrictive part before (on S days of course because they are all sweets) helps to take off any pressure of wanting them and makes them just part of eating good food.

So I highly recommend the book and think it is a useful adjunct to No S, especially on S days.

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Post by marygrace » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:45 pm

Groovy1, thanks for the recommendation. I'll definitely be checking this book out. I, too, have found that when I consciously set the intention to stop eating at a certain level of fullness, it usually prevents overeating. Further, while NoS has taken me really far in terms of stopping the "eat, repent, repeat" cycle through it's rules and habits alone, I sometimes do still fall into this trap on S-days (though I am getting better). May's advice sounds like it could help me conquer this problem completely.

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more French thinking

Post by oolala53 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:37 pm

I thought I had written about Anne Barone a long time ago. She lived in France as a young woman and lost 55 lbs. by adopting more French attitudes toward eating. Unlike some of the other more well-known similar authors, she also directs attention to attitudes about dressing, make up, home decor, and the development of the mind. She can be kind of mean when talking about overeaters and snobby towards American food, but her emphasis on eating great quality food in moderate amounts helped paved the way for No s for me. I also think she is funnier than the others, rather tongue-in-cheek and very French. (No one is more clever than Reinhard, though!)

She has written several books which must be bought directly from her at her website. I take that back, they have them on Amazon, but they are a fortune. On her site, they are reasonable. I can't give the link because work won't let me access it. Google Chic and Slim to get to her site.

Or look for them at the library and spend your money buying more copies of No S Diet to give away. Yay, Reinhard!

BTW, I got the Moran book out of the library, and it is a nice adjunct to No S. In some ways, it deals with some of the stuff that Reinhard does on other parts of this site or podcasts, like developing other areas of your life beyond food. His approach systematic while simple, though.
Last edited by oolala53 on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

marygrace
Posts: 327
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:30 am
Location: austin, tx

Re: more French thinking

Post by marygrace » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:12 am

oolala53 wrote: BTW, I got the Moran book out of the library, and it is a nice adjunct to No S. In some ways, it deals with some of the stuff that Reinhard does on other parts of this site or podcasts, like developing other areas of your life beyond food. He is the kind of systematic while simple, though.
Yeah, Moran deals with some of the same things as Reinhard, but their approach is definitely different. Simple and systematic definitely describes Reinhard, while I see Moran as more holistic and even spiritual.

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Over43
Posts: 1850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:15 pm
Location: The Mountains

Lose Weight, Save Money

Post by Over43 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:02 am

There is a book out there, that I checked out at the library a long time ago, titled "Lose Weight, Save Money". The premise being that as you get your gastronomic appetite under conttrol, you literally start to control your spending habits. The two, if I remember correctly, are connected psychologically.

On a personal level, I am saving money on eating out and groceries because of No S.

Coincidence maybe. :)
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man

I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79

oolala53
Posts: 10059
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

maybe

Post by oolala53 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:02 pm

I don't know whether to put Outwit Your Weight in this thread or the one No S is so much smarter than.... It attacks the problem from the side of changing a person's worst habits and gives many more suggestions for how to think about the problem at the times of urgency, but it just seems so complicated after No S. However, for someone who is struggling even with just 3 meals a day, it might be the ticket to get him/her to that lovely, simple program.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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