Going back to Vanilla NoS...

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:46 am

Hi, I'm writing here to get support really as I've been feeling really bad over the last month.

An update on how I've been doing: had a perfectly green HabitCal for June & July & most of August, just with vanilla NoS. Then my downfall started:

a) trip to greece to visit family. Things ALWAYS go haywire there, always, mainly for emotional reasons (my mother is a legendary yo-yo dieter & I get trapped into following her patterns while living in her house: long story). The trip lasted 3 weeks so that didn't help.

b) then on my return, in september, I decided bravely to make some modifications to NoS. I ended up choosing 3 S events rather than 2 pure S days. It worked really badly for me, as I keep having reds on my HabitCal & my weight is creeping back on!!

I think I need to go straight back to plain, vanilla NoS since it's the thing that works for me.

I also need to start thinking more seriously about exercise but also, most importantly, WHAT I'm eating during my N days, given that I haven't lost any weight whatsoever since starting NoS. I have PCOS so this isn't so surprising.

My goal is to combine NoS (during the week) with other diets, alternating them, making sure that my bottom line is not deviating from NoS. And then having 2 normal S days on weekends.

I really would like to keep this thread going for a while, just for support. I'm going through a job hunting process at the moment, just finished my PhD, and to be honest am feeling that the way I look & the way I feel about my body is seriously affecting the way I present myself at interviews. So it's getting me really down. I'm not feeling sexy at all, my clothes don't fit me well, so it's all taking its toll.

I wonder whether the best place for some ongoing support for my effort in the next month is here, or should I transfer this thread at the Daily Check section & ask people to check on me & offer ideas/support there?

Sorry this has turned into an essay, I'm feeling pretty low these days around the whole weight/body issue. The whole thing is just starting to bore me, to be honest: thinking about it, stressing about it, not having clothes to wear etc: which then only leads to comfort eating. On the plus side, this has just been going on for the last 2 weeks, I did have 2 and a half excellent months in the summer, but even then, I lost no weight. Only difference is, I'm now PUTTING on weight as we speak!

idontknow · Post by **idontknow** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:16 am

Well done on making a decision to move forwards and good luck with going back to vanilla. You know you can do vanilla because of your experiences in the summer. So good luck and wherever you decide to post you'll get lots of support

CptSpacely · Post by **CptSpacely** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:48 pm

I highly encourage you to focus on just one or two things at a time when making changes in your habits. First work on making sure you've got Vanilla No S down before trying to "optimize" it, as Reinhard would say, by altering your N-days to follow another (likely more restrictive) diet. You said that you weren't gaining weight when doing Vanilla No S. In my book, NOT gaining weight is a success in and of itself that many people seem to dismiss. In addition to working on your basic No S habits, I would definitely suggest you try to find some form of exercise that you enjoy. I find that I feel much better about myself when I'm exercising on a regular basis. I feel healthier, happier, and slimmer, even when the scale isn't actually budging when I'm exercising. It's a great psychological boost, which it sounds like you could use during the stressful period you're going through in your job hunting.

Best of luck to you! I'm pulling for you!

CptSpacely · Post by **CptSpacely** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:05 pm

By the way, I wanted to wish you a heartfelt congratulations on your PhD! As someone who bailed on grad school prior to completing my PhD (I had already passed my comprehensive exams

) and left with an M.S., I'm well aware of how much hard work, dedication, and sacrifice is required to achieve a PhD! I'm certain that anyone who is capable of earning a PhD has the innate drive and perserverance required to achieve their health and fitness goals.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:45 am

Thanks Stacy for your support & kind words regarding my PHD

. Helps a lot to hear positive things, particularly since a) I've been feeling disappointed with my eating/exercise habits (all these back & forths are TIRING to say the least) and b) I haven't had any luck so far with my job hunting...

Yesterday I did an experiment: I noted what I ate all day & counted calories, using the 'Food focus' website. Even though my meals were very balanced & healthy, my grand total for the day was 1466 calories. And as I said, this was on a day with VERY health conscious choices. I've given my weight/height & other details to the Food Focus website & according to them I need to be averaging up to 1393 calories a day in order to be losing weight at a steady, sustainable pace. My conclusion from all this is that:

a) finding a good, easy, pleasurable exercise routine is vital if I really need to be losing weight without serious food deprivation.

b) it seems- despite my very real PCOS difficulties in losing weight- that, without knowing, I've been probably eating more calories than I need which is why, even though I was on NoS for a while with no slip-ups, I wasn't losing weight.

Anyway, that was my conclusion for the day. For this week I'll continue the same thing, eating according to vanilla NoS principles & logging calories onto Food Focus. If I feel tired one day I just won't do it as my bottom line plan is NoS. I will also have my normal S days on saturday & sunday with no calorie counting.

Murphysraven · Post by **Murphysraven** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:19 am

Hi Cassie,

I'm also going back to vanilla NoS and I have PCOS too!

I only recently started back up (about a month ago). Sadly, i've been struggling to stay on NoS for the long term over the years; it really feels like every time I rededicate to the plan it gets a little easier and I really feel vanilla is the easiest to follow.

I think the biggest thing that has been helpful to me this time around is my roommate was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. The whole house has learned how to eat a little healthier. (my husband and i live with another couple and we eat dinner like a family) We've cut down on the amount of snacks and bad for you foods around the house that were always tempting me off the noS plan, started making an effort to eat more veggies at dinner and cut out a lot of carbs from our diet. I always thought lower carb eating would be difficult but so far it's been really easy, and I didn't actually have to give up bread!

The second thing that has helped me this time around is trying to plan my Sdays. Especially my treats. In times past I would treat S days like a free for all and it would just totally mess up my N days. I usually try to have one day where I get a fancy sweet treat and one day where I indulge in a burger and fries or other fast food meal. (I'm a sucker for french fries but i try to limit them now to sdays)

I've found taking vitamins help curb my snacking urges. I take extra B vitamins to help give me more energy and a normal multi vitamin. Although the B vitamins I have to take early in the morning because if I take them at lunch or dinner I have a hard time sleeping.

Lastly, and apologies if this is a personal question. Are you being treated for PCOS? I was taking BC in the form of the shot for a year until my family doc said it was probably contributing to my weight problems. I am now starting a medication called Metformin which is used for type 2 diabetes as well as pcos. I think it helps regulate hormones as well as helps with how your body deals with sugar. Might be worth looking into if you haven't considered it before.

Best of luck to your NoS journey. Never give up, never surrender! ;D

Starla · Post by **Starla** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:31 pm

Cassie, I am feeling a lot of the same things you are. I've had only one failure this past month, but my plates have been a lot fuller and my S days a little wilder. In my case it's because I just bought a house and moved, and it was impossible (for me) to eat well during that process. I'm sure I've gained weight, and all this just after posting my one-year testimonial. I feel like a fraud!

This week I'm getting back on track with eating (exercise is another problem, but I'll handle that once eating's routine again). What's helping me is remembering that this is a "rest of your life" process. In the long term, does it really matter that I've had a bad month? However much weight I've gained (I haven't weighed myself) will be lost again, and there's no deadline. I try to tell myself I did not handle things perfectly, but I handled them as well as I could.

Good luck finding a routine that will work for you, and congratulations on your PhD! That's a tremendous accomplishment.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:24 pm

Starla wrote:Cassie, I am feeling a lot of the same things you are. I've had only one failure this past month, but my plates have been a lot fuller and my S days a little wilder. In my case it's because I just bought a house and moved, and it was impossible (for me) to eat well during that process. I'm sure I've gained weight, and all this just after posting my one-year testimonial. I feel like a fraud!

This week I'm getting back on track with eating (exercise is another problem, but I'll handle that once eating's routine again). What's helping me is remembering that this is a "rest of your life" process. In the long term, does it really matter that I've had a bad month? However much weight I've gained (I haven't weighed myself) will be lost again, and there's no deadline. I try to tell myself I did not handle things perfectly, but I handled them as well as I could.
.

Good for you for realizing that this is for "the rest of your life." I truly don't understand why we expect never to have bad periods of time. Just do your best and move on. And, sometimes I think we just can't think about a few S days gone wild or how big the servings are on our plates. You get back to "normal" as soon as you can.

Spudd · Post by **Spudd** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:13 pm

Cassie wrote: Yesterday I did an experiment: I noted what I ate all day & counted calories, using the 'Food focus' website. Even though my meals were very balanced & healthy, my grand total for the day was 1466 calories. And as I said, this was on a day with VERY health conscious choices. I've given my weight/height & other details to the Food Focus website & according to them I need to be averaging up to 1393 calories a day in order to be losing weight at a steady, sustainable pace.

What do they consider "a steady, sustainable pace"? Have you asked the website how many calories you should eat to maintain? I'd be surprised if 1466 was equal to or higher than your maintenance level - meaning you should still lose weight eating 1466, but maybe not as quickly as the website would like. IMO a lot of these weight-loss sites aim for 1-2 lbs/week, and I think that rate is unsustainable and leads to deprivation.

CptSpacely · Post by **CptSpacely** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:50 pm

I tend to agree with Spudd. When I was doing Weight Watchers years ago I was eating 1400-1600 calories per day and losing 1-2 pounds per week. I exercised almost daily, so assuming the average expenditure was an extra 200 calories, my sedentary calorie count for that weight loss rate probably would have been 1200-1400. Anyway, the point I really wanted to make was that I was hungry all the time at that calorie range, so while it was motivating to be losing 1-2 lbs a week, I don't think it's sustainable either. When I lost the weight with No S I was never hungry (except in the hour or so leading up to a meal), and I lost 8-10 lbs over a period of two or three months. Averaging 10 lbs over 12 weeks is under a pound per week. Slow, but sustainable. And I've kept that weight off for the last couple of years by maintaining my No S habits.

marygrace · Post by **marygrace** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:37 pm

CptSpacely wrote:I tend to agree with Spudd. When I was doing Weight Watchers years ago I was eating 1400-1600 calories per day and losing 1-2 pounds per week. I exercised almost daily, so assuming the average expenditure was an extra 200 calories, my sedentary calorie count for that weight loss rate probably would have been 1200-1400. Anyway, the point I really wanted to make was that I was hungry all the time at that calorie range, so while it was motivating to be losing 1-2 lbs a week, I don't think it's sustainable either. When I lost the weight with No S I was never hungry (except in the hour or so leading up to a meal), and I lost 8-10 lbs over a period of two or three months. Averaging 10 lbs over 12 weeks is under a pound per week. Slow, but sustainable. And I've kept that weight off for the last couple of years by maintaining my No S habits.

I never tried Weight Watchers, but I did do my own sort of low-calorie diets in the past that didn't work. Sometimes I'd add running into the mix (and allow myself to eat a little more), but sometimes I wouldn't exercise at all and just eat very, very little. During those times, I remember feeling "thin", but I also felt sluggish, depressed, and HUNGRY. Of course, it was not sustainable over the long-term. I'd end up depriving myself so much that at some point, I'd binge eat, then feel "fat" and throw in the towel completely.

I started NoS in September 2008, and it was the best thing for me. Like you, I lost about 8 pounds in 2-3 months, which was all I wanted to lose. I was hungry before my meals, but I never felt deprived. In fact, I have some really great food memories from those few months, because it was the first time since I was a kid that I was really enjoying my food without guilt. I remember that Thanksgiving and Christmas were the first holidays in years where I didn't leave the table feeling sick, stuffed, and completely down about myself.

Over the last year and a half, I've definitely had some ups and downs with NoS. I attribute them to some significant, emotional life changes (though they aren't really excuses). My weight has fluctuated a bit, but I never gained back more than 5 pounds or so before realizing I needed to bring things in check. If anything, these instances have only reinforced how great the NoS framework is for me, and made me further dedicated to it. Plus, I don't have to run anymore--something I always hated =)

Post by **reinhard** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:04 pm

Welcome back, Cassie. I've always thought vanilla was the finest flavor. It may not be flashy, but it goes with everything and it never gets old.

Best of luck -- and enjoy!

Reinhard

CptSpacely · Post by **CptSpacely** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:52 pm

marygrace wrote:I started NoS in September 2008, and it was the best thing for me. Like you, I lost about 8 pounds in 2-3 months, which was all I wanted to lose. I was hungry before my meals, but I never felt deprived. In fact, I have some really great food memories from those few months, because it was the first time since I was a kid that I was really enjoying my food without guilt. I remember that Thanksgiving and Christmas were the first holidays in years where I didn't leave the table feeling sick, stuffed, and completely down about myself.

I could almost have written the exact same thing myself! Enjoying my food without guilt is the thing I love about No S, and is the reason I can't imagine myself ever giving up on it. I'm 5'6" and float around 145 lbs (and wear a size 6/8) with very little effort since getting down the basic No S habits (I started in April 2008). However, I personally would like to lose another 8-10 lbs, which is why I've been hanging around the No S bulletin boards lately. I'm not willing to go back to a restrictive, calorie counting or low carb diet, but I'm toying with tweaking my eating habits to see if I can change my setpoint weight to something a bit closer to 135 lbs without bringing back those old feelings of deprivation and guilt. Right now I suspect it will come down to improving on my N-day nutrition/eating habits (I'm a Vanilla No Ser myself)...but I'd rather be a few pounds above my ideal weight and HAPPY than be at my ideal weight and miserable obsessing about food.

marygrace · Post by **marygrace** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:31 pm

CptSpacely wrote: I could almost have written the exact same thing myself! Enjoying my food without guilt is the thing I love about No S, and is the reason I can't imagine myself ever giving up on it. I'm 5'6" and float around 145 lbs (and wear a size 6/8) with very little effort since getting down the basic No S habits (I started in April 2008). However, I personally would like to lose another 8-10 lbs, which is why I've been hanging around the No S bulletin boards lately. I'm not willing to go back to a restrictive, calorie counting or low carb diet, but I'm toying with tweaking my eating habits to see if I can change my setpoint weight to something a bit closer to 135 lbs without bringing back those old feelings of deprivation and guilt. Right now I suspect it will come down to improving on my N-day nutrition/eating habits (I'm a Vanilla No Ser myself)...but I'd rather be a few pounds above my ideal weight and HAPPY than be at my ideal weight and miserable obsessing about food.

Do you exercise? I find that even with NoS, my weight will creep up to a bit higher than where I'm comfortable if I don't do some kind of vigorous exercise most days of the week (for me, it's 40 minutes of riding my bike outside, and plus some yoga and walking the dog). I could probably cut out the bike riding if I wanted to get really picky on my S days, but for me, that would defeat the beauty of NoS.

Also, isn't it interesting how so many women describe their "ideal" weight in purely physical terms? You say you'd rather be a few pounds above your "ideal" and be happy--which is great, and more women should think like that--than be at the "ideal" weight and be miserable. But really, if you're miserable at the so-called "ideal" weight, is it really that ideal? I'd say no. It might feel ideal for a few days or weeks while that smaller jean size is fitting, but if maintaining that weight is causing you to be overly stressed or preoccupied, it really isn't ideal in the long term. What's ideal, then, is a healthy weight that still feels good physically, but allows you to feel good mentally and emotionally, too.

CptSpacely · Post by **CptSpacely** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:52 pm

Do you exercise? I find that even with NoS, my weight will creep up to a bit higher than where I'm comfortable if I don't do some kind of vigorous exercise most days of the week (for me, it's 40 minutes of riding my bike outside, and plus some yoga and walking the dog).

Yes, I exercise almost every day of the week (various types of exercises, typically 30-60 min), and like you, I find that it helps keep my weight from creeping up, but more importantly it helps me feel good both physically and mentally. However, I have a very sedentary job and do little activity outside of my regular morning exercise. I'm working on that. Years ago I wore a pedometer to track my steps, and I found it a useful way of increasing my general activity level. I'm planning on doing that again (once I replace the battery in my old pedometer).

Also, isn't it interesting how so many women describe their "ideal" weight in purely physical terms? You say you'd rather be a few pounds above your "ideal" and be happy--which is great, and more women should think like that--than be at the "ideal" weight and be miserable. But really, if you're miserable at the so-called "ideal" weight, is it really that ideal? I'd say no.

Very true. And yet, I still struggle with vanity, I must admit. If my physical ideal is unobtainable within the bounds of a moderate diet that has room for occasional excess, then so be it. However, I'm not quite ready to give up on the pursuit of it just yet. If trying to increase my general activity level, cutting down on dining out on N-days, and focusing on healthier foods in somewhat smaller quanties (my dinner plates are pretty big) is not a sustainable answer for lowering my setpoint weight, I'll accept that my ideal is simply not realistic for me.

I fear that I've hijacked Cassie's thread! This thread was meant to be in support of her No-S efforts, and I hope she forgives this tangent about my issues...

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:00 am

Whew! Hadn't realised there were so many responses to this thread

.

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.

I do agree with those who say that 1400-1600 calories (on average) per day is probably not great in terms of hunger etc. However, I know from experience- well, taking into account that I haven't been losing weight on pure NoS & knowing that I have PCOS- that there is an issue with calories in my personal case, and that perhaps 1400-1600 cals a day is what it has to be for me, on average, maybe a bit more if I exercise, if I am to lose weight.

But I haven't been beating myself up about it. Reading this thread has really helped, especially this idea that it's completely normal to have bad days & bad weeks.

Still, I do want to see the weight at last going off!! It's now 2 years since I had my baby (well, a lively toddler now!) & I really don't want this post-pregnancy body to remain my body for much longer... it's already been too long.

I've gone back to vanilla NoS, as I've said, with 2 clear S days a week, my only mod being that these S days tend to be whenever I want, ie if we have a planned dinner party on a Wednesday I'll take that as an S day & have Sunday as an N day. But this is something I don't consider a real mod as I've always done it from the start of my NoS journey & it's been fine.

Other than that, I feel walking is, as a starting point, the most sustainable exercise. I know that 1 hour of moderate-pace walking equals about 200 cals, so that seems to me really doable, as I think I can manage to squeeze in 2 sets of 30-min walks in my normal day...

Will keep you posted!

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:21 am

My neighbor is losing weight and seeing a nutritionist. She had been eating 1200-1400 calories/day and losing. The nutritionist had her increase her calories to 1600-1800 -- and she's losing more quickly. The interesting thing about her situation is that she's physically unable to exercise much at all -- it's all too complicated to get into, but her ability to do physical things decreases almost weekly.

Cassie · Post by **Cassie** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:03 pm

Really Wosnes?! So basically what you're saying is that in your neighbour's case, with slightly more calories she's actually losing more weight? That's fascinating. I think it's probably because if the calories are too low then metabolism slows down (or something like that, correct me somebody if I'm wrong)...

marygrace · Post by **marygrace** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:23 pm

Cassie wrote:Really Wosnes?! So basically what you're saying is that in your neighbour's case, with slightly more calories she's actually losing more weight? That's fascinating. I think it's probably because if the calories are too low then metabolism slows down (or something like that, correct me somebody if I'm wrong)...

That's how it works. If you eat too few calories (for the average woman I think the limit is below 1200), your body can go into "starvation mode" and work even harder to hold onto fat.