Everyday Systems

As my experiment with incorporating small portions of sweets in my meals failed terribly, I am now giving vanilla No S another shot.
I do fine on Mondays and Tuesdays, but in the middle of the week I always (ALWAYS) start getting intense cravings for sweets. They don't go away easily :/ If I give in, I wake up on Thursday craving even more sweet stuff. If I resist, my weekend is definitely idiotic (OMG, OMG, I have only two days!), and next week I'm plagued by dreams of pastries that haven't been invented yet. Lather, rinse, repeat. Endless cycle of two-day perfection and downward spiral that follows it.
I know that if it comes to food, addiction is more a matter of psychology than physiology, but... nothing is impossible To free myself from the grip of my sugar dependency, I've been toying with the idea of replacing sugar-laden desserts with their healthier equivalents (sweetened with honey, xylitol, maple syrup). "Natural" sweeteners seem to agree with my physiology much better than simple sugar, as they do not provoke overwhelming cravings. I'd like to treat those things like regular S-day indulgences, to be enjoyed on special occassions and in moderation... if it's at all possible
Therefore, two questions for you: how do you combat N-day cravings when they hit you like a ton of bricks? Ignore them, try to substitute? Also, what are your views about possible sugar addiction (which has not yet been confirmed by science, though a word "dependency" is often used in this context)?

I have many, many years of sugar addiction experience and have read everything and tried everything so all I can do is offer my experience to help you end these cravings....

1. Remove all sugar in your diet including honey, xylitol. The only sweetener that works for me without causing cravings is Stevia. In fact, you can buy it with chromium in it which helps with cravings too. It's natural, it's safe and in my experience it works. You will feel like crap for a day maybe two but once you stop eating sugar the cravings will go away.

2. Are you a heavy fruit eater? Try eliminating fruit for just a few days and then only eat low glycemic fruits such as berries, peaches until you can determine if sugar in high glycemic fruits such as bananas cause more cravings.

3. You could increase your protein. That should help. Many people say that a higher protein, low carb diet helps them with their sugar cravings and pretty much kills it. Whenever I eat low carb it does remove my sugar cravings but for me I can't live low carb it's just too restrictive for me and makes me crazy but if you are going to eat carbs, try to make sure they are not white because it means sugar will be in the ingredients. In addition white flour turns to sugar in the body.

4. For me, I'll have coffee w cream and NO sugar and that really puts an end to any cravings stat. especially when I automatically want something sweet at the end of a meal.

5. Drink some hot water and lemon or water with lemon and stevia. I also find drinking Crystal Light really helps with my cravings for some reason but most flavours have aspertame in them.. not good for you, but a few flavours (lemonade, and pomegranate) are made with splenda which is not as bad in my opionion (I could be wrong) as splenda.

6. When you have S days, if you feel you can't handle sugar without wanting more you can try some of the low carb chocolates, candies etc. The Atkins Endulge bars are really good and for me at least they don't make me crazy wanting more treats unless of course I buy multiple bars to have on hand because they are so yummy it will be hard to stop so that brings me to point 7.

7. Don't keep the addictive stuff in the house and only buy the portion you plan to eat. That for me has been key because if I stock up on something sweet I'll eat it all (almost to get rid of it and because it's so addictive).

8. DON'T BE HARD ON YOURSELF. Sugar addiction is serious stuff. It is not your fault. Many, many of us are addicted to it and food manufacturers know this which is why they put it in everything.

If you stick to NO-S you will find your cravings diminish. It has for me because you know it's only a few days until your planned treat.

I hope this helps. Best of luck. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

Imogen Morley wrote:I know that if it comes to food,
addiction is more a matter of psychology than physiology,
but... nothing is impossible

I find this statement interesting.
Are those cravings for sweets and starches REALLY a problem of the mind,
rather than of the body?

I, myself, have spent a lifetime considering this issue a psychological one.
My personal experience with this involves about 20 years of Therapy
to overcome that problem,....to no avail.
With professional help, I've dug into my psyche on the "whys";
I've taught myself most of the "hows"...in fact...
I've learned and incorporated most of the recommended Behavior Modifications.
Numerous "mindful" eating behaviors have become Habits for me.

For many, many years, my pattern has been not to label foods,
"good" or "bad",
but to allow myself to have a little of anything I want, including the occasional sugar-laden dessert.

Those techniques, including the No S restriction of sweets on N days,
have helped me resist the cravings,
but they have NOT reduced or eliminated the cravings.

Imogen Morley wrote:How do you combat N-day cravings when they hit you like a ton of bricks? Ignore them, try to substitute?

What are your views about possible sugar addiction
(which has not yet been confirmed by science,
though a word "dependency" is often used in this context)?

I recall from the No S book, that Reinhard, personally, doesn't find the term "addiction" helpful,
and he tends to avoid using it for various reasons.

At this particular moment, I have finally reached the point where I am willing to seriously consider
the possibility that these cravings are physical, rather than psychological.
I've begun to think that new way, due to my exposure to Good Calories Bad Calories (2007) by Gary Taubes,
and his recently released book, Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It.

Perhaps many of us DO have a physical intolerance for certain food substances....
Perhaps the physical tolerance for them varies between individual,
just like some people have bodies that are allergic to peanuts...
and to varying degrees....,
maybe there is something to that Theory about insulin and carbohydrates too.
I don't know.

I DO know that psychological treatment won't resolve a physical problem.
All the therapy in the world won't let those with a severe peanut allergy, eat peanuts without side-effects.

I've recently begun a personal experiment
to see what a lengthy Low-Carb commitment will do in my body.
I am especially interested to see whether or not
a total elimination of sugar and refined grains,
and a serious restriction of whole grains, starchy vegetables, and fruit
will eliminate or greatly reduce these cravings in my own body.
This is a day-by-day experiment...and at this point....I don't even know how long I'll be able to stick with it.

Imogen Morley wrote:To free myself from the grip of my sugar dependency,
I've been toying with the idea of replacing sugar-laden desserts
with their healthier equivalents (sweetened with honey, xylitol, maple syrup).
"Natural" sweeteners seem to agree with my physiology much better than simple sugar,
as they do not provoke overwhelming cravings.
I'd like to treat those things like regular S-day indulgences,
to be enjoyed on special occassions and in moderation... if it's at all possible

That sounds like a reasonable plan for you, since you appear
to have personal knowledge that those sugars "do not provoke overwhelming cravings".

Each of us does the best we can with our own experiences.
The same things don't work for everyone.

In my own body, it makes no difference whether it is white sugar,
or "natural" sweeteners. MY body treats them all the same way.
I am learning that...right now... this even seems to be true for me
with regards to starches.
In fact, recently I learned that within 24 hours after having half a cup of Lentils
...(complex natural carbs)... for lunch, all of my sugar cravings returned.
And....I've carefully examined my surrounding circumstances...mental state....etc,
and feel fairly certain that this instance was not due to a psychological issue.

Life goes on.
We all do what we can.
I'm now living as a normal weight person,
and I'm willing to keep doing whatever it takes to make that a long-term status.

Is it possible that with all that with all the information out there beating us over the head about certain foods being "bad for us" we have brainwashed ourselves to the point of our "physical" cravings too.

For instance I used to beleive that if I had white flour I would get sick or it would lead me to more cravings or and/or a binge.

However, since incorporating No-S and it's only been 2.5 weeks I find I can have a piece of pizza with white flour and I'm absolutely fine. No binges are triggered and I feel pretty good actually. Or, I can actually have pasta and sauce-- something I never ever ate before because it would have been too "fattening" and I believed it was sugar which would lead to a binge.

I know I suggested those items above but I just thought you could try those things for a few days just to help transition you because it is hard to go from eating sweets to nothing at all and they are just tips that have helped me.

But I do think once you really get into no-s those cravings will dissappear and you will be able to enjoy treats like a normal person.

I am still a little afraid to have a true sweet on an s day for fear of going crazy and binge eating but I know that I will get there because no-s has already helped me so much and I know it will help you too!

I'm coming down on the side that it IS a matter of physiology for many, many people. I've been a member of a 12 step abstinence program, that involves no sugars, flours, starchy fruits& veg and have seen what an amazing change it makes in some peoples lives. I just need to figure out if I am one of those addicted individuals, or if those things can be eaten by me in the future without the activation of cravings... only time will tell, if I ever get "abstinent" again, that is.

I have always thought that what you eat DOES make a difference, and have said so before in the face of the "calories-in/out" evidence. It's nice to see more and more medical evidence supporting the view that it does. (I haven't read the current all-the-rage book by Taubes, but I have followed various research articles that have come out before that support this conclusion. Will see if I can scare up a link where I mentioned a couple. My basic stance: nutrition is very complicated on the cellular level, but if you follow Michael Pollen's rules combined with No-S on the day-to-day level, you'll do fine.)

I also think that you can "mess up" your body so that it functions less optimally than it would have otherwise - and that "than it would have otherwise" varies from person to person. In my case, I do think that years of No-S have restored some of the natural balance. I suspect that "good habits over time" would help other people heal/re-train their bodies, though it may take longer for more-damaged systems... and some people may never reach "normal" because of their own physiology.

Prior to No-S, I did a sugar de-tox every few months. When I was inhaling sugar, I needed about 3 days with no sugar or refined carbs before the cravings diminished. After that, I'd eat decently for a while, until the cravings came back. Lather, rinse, repeat.

With No-S, the sugar consumption never reaches the level where that's necessary. But... I've been doing it for years now.

So... keeping in mind that you are a beginner...

1) You may be confusing "sugar cravings" with "snack cravings" (particularly if you used to snack on sweets a lot, as I did.)

a. That's not important in terms of what you do - simply "be strict" until you retrain your hunger/craving. I recommend the "Strictness" podcast, which contains a lot of the rationale. If you're "starving," drink a glass of milk or distract yourself, and remember it does get better.

b. Even if technically this is a physical thing, I agree with Reinhard that using words like "addiction" or "craving" are generally not useful. (Major exception: If they help you release feelings of self-blame, which are even LESS useful, then go ahead.) In general, it's better to think in gentler terms, like a "tendency"... because it leaves you more open to your own ability to address these urgings. Which you can do, through willpower and habit. And can increase both through exercising them, just like a muscle.

2) There are two totally contradictory paths to reducing these cravings. Pick the one that works best given your personality/ability.
a. The "detox" or "jump in the deep water" approach - cleanse all carbs out the diet, like others have advised. Wait until you feel they're really out of your system, and gradually add back (starting with most complex) until you find your tolerance level.
b. The gradual approach. Limit the most egregious offenders (sugar, maybe refined flours) and GIVE IT TIME before you evaluate further. Cut back more only if needed after time. (In others words.... vanilla No-S, pretty much.)

"B" takes longer, but I think the changes you're looking for happen very naturally on No-S.

Also, I do think artificial sweeteners contribute HEAVILY to messing up your body. (I acknowledge fully that this is a personal conclusion not shared by everyone - no need for anyone to jump in to disagree. Start a new thread if you must.) If you disagree, just ignore this idea. If you're open-minded about it, try cutting those too and see if there's any effect over time.

And "over time" is the key. If you have been overweight/dieting a long time, it may take years for your body to reset. The good news is that better habits will lead the way, and you can establish those better habits very quickly.

Good luck!

Edited to add this link, which mentions some of the research:
http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6977

There are lots of different approaches.

I incorporate fruit, fresh or dried, into meals, which provides a sweet flavour in a healthy way. Fruit is also satisfying.

Maybe going for a walk when you have cravings, if possible, could help:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/04/health/04really.html

Best wishes for success.

I'm a big believer that some people really do have intense sugar cravings that others do not seem to contend with. My husband can make a chocolate bar last a week - - because he can eat one square a day and find that satisfying.

One square for me makes me want it much, much more.

So, I believe that some folks do experience physical desire for sugar that goes above and beyond the norm. And those that don't experience it, find it hard to relate . . .

I think I've tried most of the major diets - Atkins, WW, etc.

Atkins really does diminish sugar cravings, but it is very hard to weave into a normal lifestyle. What do you do when you go out to dinner or a friend invites you to their home? I just don't find it compatible with the way I live.

So what to do?

Well, my number one go to strategy is a latte. The caffeine dulls the appetite in general, and milk is filling. I have no problem with artificial sweetners (much prefer Equal myself), and I use it a packet in a small latte to give some sweetness. For some reason, that really quells the craving for me.

Another option that I often use after dinner is a diet root beer. Root beer has a really sweet candy like taste. I find that it helps me feel as though I had something sweet, even though I didn't.

I am fortunate because artificial sweetners do not bring on the same intense cravings as regular sugar . . .

There's no terrific answer, but I just wanted to respond because you have my sympathy. I know the feeling exactly. Like you can eat a plate of brownies followed by a pint of ice cream - no problem. I just try to tell myself that it is just a feeling and then substitute a sugar free drink. It's definitely an imperfect answer.

No S has helped a lot because I do find the less sugar I eat, the better off I am - - so no sugar all week long is a big help. But Mondays are tough!

KCCC wrote:My basic stance: nutrition is very complicated on the cellular level, but if you follow Michael Pollen's rules combined with No-S on the day-to-day level, you'll do fine.

KCCC wrote:Also, I do think artificial sweeteners contribute HEAVILY to messing up your body.

I agree with both of these statements. I think that especially the chemicals used in the manufacturing of our food, to replace foods and in the growing of our food mess up our bodies. I've been rereading Pollan's In Defense of Food in which he wrote this about the Western (American) diet:

Michael Pollan wrote:...The rise of nutritionism reflects legitimate concerns that the American diet, which is well on its way to becoming the world's diet, has changed in ways that are making us increasingly sick and fat. Four of the top ten causes death today are chronic diseases with well-established links to diet: coronary heart disease, diabetes, stroke, and cancer. Yes, the rise to prominence of these chronic diseases is partly due to the fact that we're not dying earlier in life of infectious diseases, but only partly: Even after adjusting for age, many of the so-called diseases of civilization were far less common a century ago -- and they remain rare in places where people don't eat the way we do.

I'm speaking, of course, of the elephant in the room whenever we discuss diet and health: "the Western diet." This is the subject of the second part of the book, in which I follow the story of the most radical change to the way humans eat since the discovery of agriculture. All our uncertainties about nutrition should not obscure the plain fact that the chronic diseases that now kill most of us can be traced directly to the industrialization of our food: the rise of highly processed foods and refined grains, the use of chemical to raise plants and animals in huge monocultures; the superabundance of cheap calories of sugar and fat produced by modern agriculture; and the narrowing of biological diversity of the human diet to a tiny handful of staple crops, notably wheat, corn, and soy. These changes have given us the Western diet that we take for granted: lots of processed foods and meat, lots of added fat and sugar, lots of everything -- except vegetables, fruits, and whole grains.