Pizza Guilt

Summerwine · Post by **Summerwine** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:43 pm

This is my second week on NoS, and so far it's going very smoothly. I've had a few very hungry afternoons (including one where, because of waiting for a guest whose flight was late, I got no dinner until 10pm), but I've found it pretty easy to distract myself until it was time to eat. All in all, I'm happy.

Only... tonight is pizza night in my house, and I'm having enormous pre-emptive guilt. I *know* pizza is OK, as long as I only have the slices that fit on my plate and no more. But my calorie-counting hangover just won't go away, and there's a little voice in my head going, "You're going to eat pizza, aren't you? You're a bad person. Do you think not eating sweets is going to help you if you stuff yourself on pizza? Bad!"

If you're familiar with the food guilt, and have found some tricks to let go of it, I'd appreciate some tips!

Summerwine

Aleria · Post by **Aleria** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:48 pm

Remind yourself that everything is okay in moderation. That's the basis of No-S. Having pizza once in a while isn't going to make you gain weight. It's when you have it every other night that it becomes a problem.

NoelFigart · Post by **NoelFigart** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:54 pm

Put it on the "good" plates, light some candles and make an event out of it.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:05 pm

Hey, on No S you can have pizza every night - every MEAL for that matter - if that's what you really want.

Of course you won't do that because you are a sensible person even though some part of you that Freud probably would have called the id wants to.

I have this inner persona - I call her Miss Hartshorne - that is very sensible and reasonable. She's actually a bit stern by some people's measure as she doesn't believe in molly coddling or sugar coating. She's practical but kind in her way; she is not malicious, just very direct when she feels it is in order. Actually, Miss Hartshorne can be quite understanding but draws the line short at being therapeutic or overly self aware. Miss Hartshorne believes most problems can be - if not solved then at least made better - by a brisk walk in the outdoors, a good cry or a glass of red wine or some combination of all three. If she were a character in English literature, she would be a large bosomed woman who lived in the country, wore tweed and had dogs.

Anyway, Miss Hartshorne eats pizza - 2-3 nice slices - usually with a salad. If it's the weekend she'll have a glass of red wine (for the blood pressure you know) So, if Miss Hartshorne eats pizza, then you know it's really ok because Miss Hartshorne has NEVER dieted in her life and can't really conceive why someone would even do such a thing.

Everyone needs a Miss Hartshorne in their lives. Shall I give her your address so she can come and visit?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:23 pm

I bake bread once or twice weekly. When I bake bread I make a little extra dough -- and I have pizza. Sometimes it's quite plain, other times there's more variety in the toppings. The pizza nights are among my favorites!

I usually have a salad with the pizza.

Nicest of the Damned · Post by **Nicest of the Damned** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:19 pm

Not all pizzas are created equal, you know. A small amount of a thin-crust pizza without too much cheese or fatty meat is a very different thing, dietarily speaking, from several slices of a deep-dish pizza with lots of meat toppings. Weight Watchers even makes a frozen pizza.

I have a special pizza rule. One slice for breakfast (I love pizza for breakfast) or lunch, two for dinner. Before No S, I would often eat a whole pizza at CPK for dinner.

Speaking of CPK, their Nutritional Menu Guide is a good refutation of the idea that pizza is "bad" food and salad is "good". A full Field Greens salad, with no cheese, fish, or shrimp, has 998 calories according to their site. A whole wild mushroom pizza (mmmm, one of my favorites) has 1244 calories. IIRC, they cut their pizzas into 6 slices. Two slices would be 1/3 of that, or about 415 calories. That's less than half of the calories in the salad. The sodium is comparable in the 1/3 pizza versus the salad, the pizza has fewer carbs (45 for the two slices of pizza vs 68 for the salad), and the pizza has less saturated fat (7.7 grams for the pizza vs 12 for the salad).

There are two morals to this story. One is that salad is not "good" diet food and pizza "bad". It's more complex than that. One of the things that adds to that extra complexity is the other moral, that portion size is important.

I don't tend to get food guilt, but other kinds of guilt I get sometimes respond to rational argument. Try it on your food guilt.

Eileen7316 · Post by **Eileen7316** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:51 am

Blithe Morning,

I want a visit from Mrs. Hartshorne!

Summerwine · Post by **Summerwine** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:39 am

Thanks everyone for advice and encouragement.

I've had my three slices, which took up only half a plate, and filled the rest of the plate with salad. And enjoyed the hell out of it. Could I have had more pizza and still followed the vanilla-NoS rules to the letter? Sure! But I was also trying to not be an idiot, and I think it's worked out fine.

Now I have leftover pizza, which I could eat for three days if I wanted to.

...Nah, freezing it.

Summerwine

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:13 pm

Eileen7316 wrote:Blithe Morning,

I want a visit from Mrs. Hartshorne!

Eileen, since you live in Florida, Miss Hartshorne would love to come visit as the bitter cold is beginning to wear even on her. She would probably stay in an old fashioned tourist cabin right next to the citrus fruit stand on the highway going out of town. Of course, since she was in Florida, she would go to the Everglades with her binoculars as she would be able to add some exotic birds to her life list (Miss Hartshorne is a serious birder for how could a Miss Hartshorne NOT be?) Of course the prospect of alligators AND crocodiles delights her too. (She keeps an informal "Other Animals" list too).

Alas, until she retires Miss Hartshorne must content herself with the seed catalogues and planning her garden to get her through these cold winter nights. That and knitting socks. From October to April (and sometimes May depending on how long it takes for spring to really arrive), Miss Hartshorne knits a pair of socks every month.

One of Miss Hartshorne's convictions (she has many) is that the trouble with society today is that people just don't do enough with their hands. As she told a co-worker recently, it's hard to snack when you have a skein of $25 yarn on the needles or composted sheep manure under your nails.

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:26 pm

Blithe Morning wrote:I have this inner persona -
I call her Miss Hartshorne - that is very sensible and reasonable.
She's actually a bit stern by some people's measure
as she doesn't believe in molly coddling or sugar coating.
She's practical but kind in her way; she is not malicious,
just very direct when she feels it is in order.
Actually, Miss Hartshorne can be quite understanding
but draws the line short at being therapeutic or overly self aware.
Miss Hartshorne believes most problems can be -
if not solved then at least made better - by a brisk walk in the outdoors,
a good cry or a glass of red wine or some combination of all three.
If she were a character in English literature,
she would be a large bosomed woman who lived in the country,
wore tweed and had dogs.

What a Fun and Imaginative concept.

Nicest of the Damned · Post by **Nicest of the Damned** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:11 pm

Food guilt is counterproductive. From the No S Diet page:

reinhard wrote:People talk about the "French Paradox," that the French can eat fatty, carby, delicious food and still stay skinny while health conscious, calorie counting Americans are the fattest people on earth. It seems not only improbable, but unjust. They love their food and stay skinny, we hate our food and get fat.

We Americans have more food guilt than people in countries like France and Italy. It isn't helping to keep our obesity rate lower than theirs. Quite the contrary. As of 2005, the obesity rate in France was 9.4%, and Italy's was 8.5%. Compare that to the US's 30.6%. If food guilt were helpful in keeping weight down, we'd expect to see less obesity in the US than in France or Italy. Instead, it looks like we might benefit from taking a leaf from their book on relating to food.

When you have thoughts of food guilt, step back from them. Say to yourself, "I notice that I am feeling guilty about food." Tell yourself that this thought is not helpful. Think of it the way you think of a song you don't like getting stuck in your head.

Starla · Post by **Starla** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:44 pm

Blithe Morning wrote:Of course, since she was in Florida, she would go to the Everglades with her binoculars as she would be able to add some exotic birds to her life list (Miss Hartshorne is a serious birder for how could a Miss Hartshorne NOT be?) Of course the prospect of alligators AND crocodiles delights her too. (She keeps an informal "Other Animals" list too).

OK, now I am picturing Miss Hartshorne as Miss Jane Hathaway, who certainly knows a lot about staying thin. I like it!

Summerwine, I'm so happy to hear you enjoyed your pizza! No S changed my internal dialogue about food like pizza. Instead of fighting the "Eat this!" vs. "No! It's too fattening!" fight, I learned to ask myself how I could enjoy this particular food in moderation. It seems like a revelation when you learn that you can enjoy three pieces of pizza every bit as much as the whole pie.

amake616 · Post by **amake616** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:59 pm

I'd just like to comment that I think Miss Hartshorne should have her own account on here and comment regularly. I suspect she would keep these boards very interesting. She makes eating talk much more fun...in a sober, British sort of way.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:47 pm

Miss Hartshorne does want her moment in the sun, doesn't she. Maybe she needs her own checkin thread with full disclosure that she is a persona rather than a person. I'd hate to cause some poor new person distress.

I was on a board once where a regular poster assumed a name and made up some fantastical but gripping stories about her life as a widow in a log cabin (this was a simple living board so yes, it was farfetched but not THAT farfetched).

When the duplicity came to light, there was quite the firestorm and the poster who didn't mean to deceive but rather have some fun was self banished.

If Reinhard is ok with Miss Hartshorne having a check in thread, I'd be happy to let her out and opine at will.

NoelFigart · Post by **NoelFigart** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:15 pm

Miss Hartshorn could have a sig explaining she's fictional.

For my own part, I LIKE the lady. I love the image.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:38 pm

I know it seems as if the French don't have food guilt, but up until the last few years, it was considered such a cultural no-no to overeat that they didn't have the opportunity to feel food guilt because they just didn't do it. I believe they say "comme il faut," meaning that's just how it's done. You eat moderate amounts and enjoy them immensely. Eating more does not add to the enjoyment, and would be unacceptable. So, yes, they don't have guilt for eating rich food, but they used to abhor overeating. I think if they have any food guilt, it would be for eating poor quality food. Or used to.

You've got to get used to the idea that you are not dieting. You are living! And to live, you need to eat. You will determine over time what is appropriate to eat often. Just be honest with yourself as time goes on. If you find that you need less to feel satisfied, eat less.

amake616 · Post by **amake616** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:46 pm

Blithe Morning wrote: When the duplicity came to light, there was quite the firestorm and the poster who didn't mean to deceive but rather have some fun was self banished. quote]

Well, that doesn't seem quite fair! I've seen some instances of what appeared to be pretty blatant deception (for fun or just out of sheer strangeness) and I've never understood the need to call to people on it. Geez, live and let live, it's just an Internet board. And if I thought there really was a Miss Hartshorne I might be more inclined to practice good posture in case I ran into her at some appropriately healthy and proper get together.