What's a Fail?

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:12 pm

I am fairly new to the No S life and I have a question about counting failures. On Monday night I had a normal plate of food, but had about 4 sips of root beer from my son's glass (there was nothing else around and I was dying of thirst). Strictly speaking it is a fail -- but I was tempted not to count it, because the sugar content was no more than the small spoonful of sugar I put in my tea every day. Your thoughts?

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:46 pm

That's a tough question.

I wouldn't call it a fail if, as a new NoS'er, I reflexively grabbed something that was set for others to snack on - but once I realized I was doing it, If I kept doing it, it's a fail.

I guess the question you want to ask yourself is was there really nothing else around? Water? If not, then don't call it a fail. If you could have walked to the sink and gotten a glass of water, then maybe be a little tougher on yourself about it.

Ultimately, it's your call, really. But the plan does work better if you are strict with yourself at the beginning.

Alexandra wrote:I am fairly new to the No S life and I have a question about counting failures. On Monday night I had a normal plate of food, but had about 4 sips of root beer from my son's glass (there was nothing else around and I was dying of thirst). Strictly speaking it is a fail -- but I was tempted not to count it, because the sugar content was no more than the small spoonful of sugar I put in my tea every day. Your thoughts?

ThomsonsPier · Post by **ThomsonsPier** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:48 pm

The rule is not No Sugar, it's No Sweets. A sweet is a food which is not savoury.

Root beer is a drink. There is no fail here.

Starla · Post by **Starla** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:51 pm

I would call it a fail IF you chose to drink the soda, knowing it was not allowed.

I have to qualify this by saying I have been very strict about the rules and that I found this extremely helpful in the long run. Being strict means you teach yourself clear rules, and once these rules are established as habit you never have to make decisions about what is or is not allowed. A failure can be a good thing if you learn from it. You put yourself in a position where you had nothing to drink but a sweet; maybe next time you'll be able to plan a drink that fits into NO S.

Good luck! If your failures are things like 4 sips of soda, it sounds as if you are doing great!

Sienna · Post by **Sienna** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:05 pm

I think it depends on whether or not you consider root beer a sweet and would normally disallow it. If you made the decision when starting NoS to consider soda a sweet, then it's a fail*. If you decided that for you soda was okay, then it's not a fail. But it's not really about the amount. Because while it was a small amount, it's a slippery slope from saying "there was only as much sugar in the tiny sip of root beer as in my morning coffee" to "there was only as much sugar in that tiny cookie as in my morning coffee". And if you keep yourself as far as possible from the slope, your less likely to slide down when you do stumble a bit.

*I want to emphasize that a fail doesn't make you a failure. A single fail, or even a few fails, is not the end of the world (in life or NoS). It's how we react to and change from the fails that really defines us. For example, only having the 4 sips instead of saying "screw it" and gulping down a full glass was a success after failure. So go out and buy yourself a really awesome sports bottle to carry water with you, so that you'll be less likely to find yourself without options again.

NoelFigart · Post by **NoelFigart** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:24 pm

Alexandra wrote:I am fairly new to the No S life and I have a question about counting failures. On Monday night I had a normal plate of food, but had about 4 sips of root beer from my son's glass (there was nothing else around and I was dying of thirst). Strictly speaking it is a fail -- but I was tempted not to count it, because the sugar content was no more than the small spoonful of sugar I put in my tea every day. Your thoughts?

While soda is definitely a sweet in my book, I'd let this slide and plan better next time. If you find yourself getting sips of soda when you feel like you shouldn't on a regular basis, maybe you can make a rule around it. Sienna is right that about the slippery slope stuff, and you've gotten a lot of other good advice.

I'd say next time to get a glass of water.

Nicest of the Damned · Post by **Nicest of the Damned** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:54 pm

It could go either way. Root beer does taste sweet and have sugar, so it could be considered a sweet. But it's also a beverage, which a lot of people don't count. This is a decision you'll have to make.

If this is a situation that is at all likely to come up again in the future (and I'd say it probably is), I'd suggest making a decision, one way or the other, and sticking to it. You don't want to get into a habit of making "just this once" exceptions to No S. Also, the clearer your rules are, the less mental energy it will take to figure out if something is permitted or not. That's good, because humans are pretty good at finding excuses to do something they want to do. In other words, if you spend a lot of time thinking about whether something is OK or not, the answer will probably end up being yes. Too much leniency is not good for your diet.

The only measure of quantities in No S is one plate at mealtimes. That's deliberate, to keep you from saying "well, this is OK because I'm only having a little of it". That kind of thinking blurs the bright line between sweets and no sweets, and makes it too easy for you to think of excuses why you should be able to have "just a little, just this once".

I wouldn't consider "it was just a sip/bite of somebody else's" to be a valid excuse. It's not too far from that to encouraging others who eat with you to get stuff you like but shouldn't have, or even asking them to get something so you can have a taste (I know, my parents and grandparents were big on "tastes" when I was growing up). You probably don't want to be encouraging your son to eat a lot of snacks and non-No-S-approved foods. Those things aren't any healthier for him than they are for you. What's more, his food choices now will influence his future eating habits.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:17 pm

I would count STOPPING after 4 sips as a success.

I would count avoiding similar situations in the future as a bigger success.

For this one time, I would count it as "funny stuff" - a gray area that, after the fact, I decided was Not Okay. When that happens to me, I don't retroactively beat myself up (mostly because I don't react well to that), but from that point on, I would count it as a definite, no-argument fail.

(FWIW, I do consider Soda to be an S in general.)

Noel has some good points. Most especially, do not confuse having a failure with being a failure. Having them is normal - and one of the valuable things to be learned from No-S (at least for me) is how to cope with them productively.

Nicest of the Damned · Post by **Nicest of the Damned** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:29 pm

KCCC wrote:Most especially, do not confuse having a failure with being a failure. Having them is normal - and one of the valuable things to be learned from No-S (at least for me) is how to cope with them productively.

There are three kinds of No S dieters:

1. Those who have had at least one failure

2. Those who haven't had a failure yet, but are going to

3. Liars

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:27 pm

ThomsonsPier wrote:The rule is not No Sugar, it's No Sweets. A sweet is a food which is not savoury.

Root beer is a drink. There is no fail here.

hi thompsonspier, i am not sure if root beer has the same sugar content in the uk as it does in the states, but here it's soda, so it's definitely an S...

alexandra, as far as, whether this was a true fail, well, i would say it's a failure since soda isn't allowed on N days, but given the circumstances that you were so thirsty, i would say let it slide this time, but don't let yourself keep doing that and try to be prepared with water or anything allowed, in the future. by the way, failures are part of the process.. don't fear them, they happen... if you become conscious of them, that's the most important thing, and then just keep going... you will get there

NoSRocks · Post by **NoSRocks** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:16 pm

Hi everyone! Whilst we're on the subject of soda, I wondered what your take was on diet soda? I drink several diet sodas throughout the day and hadn't considered them sweets (bit of an oxymoron that one if you know what I mean -

).

Do you think it's up to the individual No S-er to decide if it's a sweet, or in general should diet soda be avoided (even though there's no sugar/calories in it?) Very interested to hear what your views are on this.

amake616 · Post by **amake616** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:31 pm

I drink between 16 and 40 oz. of Diet Coke a day. I would eventually like to cut back because I have visions of being told I have Diet Coke Cancer at forty but at the moment, I don't feel like tackling yet another issue related to eating/drinking. After I feel 100% comfortable on the basics I figure I can deal with the Diet Coke thing but until then since it is 0 calorie and it doesn't inspire binges or anything else for me I refuse to think about it.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:43 pm

NoSRocks wrote:Hi everyone! Whilst we're on the subject of soda, I wondered what your take was on diet soda? I drink several diet sodas throughout the day and hadn't considered them sweets (bit of an oxymoron that one if you know what I mean - ).

Do you think it's up to the individual No S-er to decide if it's a sweet, or in general should diet soda be avoided (even though there's no sugar/calories in it?) Very interested to hear what your views are on this.

This comes up a lot, and each person has to decide. Might be worth a separate poll.

I consider diet soda (and all artificially-sweetened foods) to be sweets, though I know that's not a universal perspective on the boards. If I recall correctly, Reinhard discourages them, but doesn't go so far as to ban them.

My reasons for this choice:
1) Diet drinks TASTE sweet. The rule is "no sweets," not "no calories."
2) Even if they have no calories, things that taste sweet undermine habit. (In my observation, the people on the board that struggle the most with "no snacks" are also the people who are most adamant about using artificial sweeteners.)
3) From some fairly serious reading on the topic, I am convinced that artificial sweeteners confuse the body's mechanisms for handling sugar. (Not everyone buys this arguement, of course.)
4) Finally, I fulfilled my lifetime quota in my youth. I've given them up the way some people have given up smoking.

But... like most of No-S... it's a personal choice. I also choose to have my milk-laden coffee with one teaspoon of sugar every morning, and know that other people would consider that borderline or out of bounds.

ETA: I was posting at the same time as amake616, and just wanted to say that I think it's perfectly reasonable to tackle one habit at a time! Go for the "big stuff" first, by all means!

Also - serendipitously - http://summertomato.com/how-to-break-a- ... -cokehead/ Good reminder that it's not an easy habit to break!

Nicest of the Damned · Post by **Nicest of the Damned** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:21 pm

I don't consider diet sodas sweets. I need them as a source of caffeine. You do not want to be around me, if I don't get my caffeine. I'm not giving up my caffeine until someone comes up with some definitive evidence that not doing so is likely to kill me.

Since circa 1995, I have only drunk non-diet sodas when I'm feeling nauseous (there's something in them that can settle your stomach). I doubt that drinking diet sodas is, for me, going to lead to drinking regular sodas. I'm accustomed to drinking soda outside of meal times, so I doubt it's going to make me want to eat.

I don't eat foods made with artificial sweeteners, so I haven't had to make a decision one way or the other on those.

NoSRocks · Post by **NoSRocks** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:07 pm

LOL!! Nicest!! Like your comment re. the caffiene. Thanks all for your valuable input as ever !! I wasn't sure if Reinhard discouraged diet drinks or not so thanks for the information and advice. I guess it boils down to what the individual feels.. and to be honest, there's nothing like a diet soda to tide you over (sounds like a jingle !) to the next day/meal.

I meant to add: I used to be a diet coke fiend! Actually a diet pepsi fiend to be precise. Managed - slowly - to wean myself off it and now drink the diet 7 up variety. i.e. those without caffiene, as i heard they were slightly 'better' than the caffiene variety. For a while, I was also addicted to the Nestle bottles of green tea with artificial sweetener - but haven't had them in a while. I guess I could try weaning myself off diet soda as a No S 'mod' - not sure I'm mentally ready to do it right now though.

NoelFigart · Post by **NoelFigart** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:14 pm

NoSRocks wrote:Hi everyone! Whilst we're on the subject of soda, I wondered what your take was on diet soda? I drink several diet sodas throughout the day and hadn't considered them sweets (bit of an oxymoron that one if you know what I mean - ).

I drink diet soda and use artificial sweetener in my coffee and just don't sweat it.

The coffee is probably more a concern than the soda, as I don't drink but a soda every few weeks.

amake616 · Post by **amake616** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:24 pm

The blog KCCC linked to actually has some good advice if you do decide to slowly wean yourself off the Diet 7up (I didn't know they even made that in caffeine free) especially regarding replacement drinks. I've never tried just adding a little splash of fruit juice to water - I don't drink any juices or regular soda because I dislike the syrupy mouthfeel so it wouldn't have occurred to me. That might actually be a decent replacement in time.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:54 am

NoSRocks wrote:I guess I could try weaning myself off diet soda as a No S 'mod' - not sure I'm mentally ready to do it right now though.

Then don't.

That's a very clear statement that this isn't something you need to be doing right now.

As Nicest points out regularly - and correctly! - willpower is a limited commodity. Put it where it matters.

(I can't tell you how many times I've seen something on the boards where I think "I should do that too"... followed by "not happening this week!")

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:37 am

Wow - I am truly grateful for all of your thoughtful replies. You gave me some much needed perspective. I do consider soda to be a sweet - so I counted it as a Fail. I really liked the slippery slope idea. It is far too easy to start making little justifications and get off track. For the record, my son does not normally drink soda but we were in a fast food court having a bite before seeing a play and I let him have it as a special treat on a special night. We had to rush out of there to get to the theatre so I didn't have time to buy something safe to drink.

On a brighter note, I had one of those experiences that a number of you have spoken about on the bulletin board -- we had a catered working lunch yesterday at a meeting I attended and there was a beautiful dessert tray and I didn't have single bite!!!!! I survived a dessert tray!!!!! I did wrap up a cookie to take home to freeze for the weekend but I ended up giving it away later that day. All of this was highly unusual behaviour on my part. Hard to believe this came from a month of following a simple eating approach. My brain seems to have been recallibrated because it was so easy to resist. Love it.

NoSRocks · Post by **NoSRocks** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:33 pm

Thanks for your comments re. the diet drinks, guys! Sorry - I didn't mean to hijack the original poster's thread (here I go again, forgetting names

)

Amake - hope I didn't confuse you with my statement about Diet 7 Up having no caffiene! I shall have to go check that out for sure...? I usually drink the lemon lime diet soda drinks from my local foodstore (the generic version) rather than 7 up but its along the same lines I suppose.

KCCC: thanks for your advice, too. Just common-sense, really and NO, I won't be in a hurry to try cutting back on the sodas just yet. I think the diet sodas are the LEAST of my worries right now.

However, I did get the information I was originally looking for: diet soda is not a "forbidden" food on N Days...even though I don't like to use the word forbidden since there (technically) is NO forbidden foods/drinks on No S and that is what I love about it. These days, I am believing more and more that No S is more of a sustainable eating PLAN or method NOT a diet.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:30 pm

NoSRocks wrote:KCCC: thanks for your advice, too. Just common-sense, really and NO, I won't be in a hurry to try cutting back on the sodas just yet. I think the diet sodas are the LEAST of my worries right now.

Most of what I say here is just "stating the obvious." But hey, someone's got to do it.

These days, I am believing more and more that No S is more of a sustainable eating PLAN or method NOT a diet.

It really is. Once you get your own "custom fit" (and it's a bit different from everyone) and establish your habits, it feels SO "normal" that the word "diet" doesn't seem remotely appropriate. (Except, of course, in the strict dictionary definition of a way of eating... but most people don't mean that in common usage.)

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:37 pm

amake616 wrote:The blog KCCC linked to actually has some good advice if you do decide to slowly wean yourself off the Diet 7up (I didn't know they even made that in caffeine free) especially regarding replacement drinks. I've never tried just adding a little splash of fruit juice to water - I don't drink any juices or regular soda because I dislike the syrupy mouthfeel so it wouldn't have occurred to me. That might actually be a decent replacement in time.

I thought 7-UP (along with Sprite and a couple of others) has always been caffeine free.

amake616 · Post by **amake616** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:04 pm

wosnes wrote:
amake616 wrote:The blog KCCC linked to actually has some good advice if you do decide to slowly wean yourself off the Diet 7up (I didn't know they even made that in caffeine free) especially regarding replacement drinks. I've never tried just adding a little splash of fruit juice to water - I don't drink any juices or regular soda because I dislike the syrupy mouthfeel so it wouldn't have occurred to me. That might actually be a decent replacement in time.
I thought 7-UP (along with Sprite and a couple of others) has always been caffeine free.

Totally possible. I always thought all sodas that didn't specifically say "caffeine free" had caffeine but since I don't drink 7Up or Sprite I wouldn't know for sure.

NoelFigart · Post by **NoelFigart** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:08 pm

"Crisp and clean, no caffeine. 7up."

*grin* Sprite doesn't have caffeine, either, as it happens.

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:32 pm

NoSRocks wrote:Hi everyone! Whilst we're on the subject of soda, I wondered what your take was on diet soda? I drink several diet sodas throughout the day and hadn't considered them sweets (bit of an oxymoron that one if you know what I mean - ).

Do you think it's up to the individual No S-er to decide if it's a sweet, or in general should diet soda be avoided (even though there's no sugar/calories in it?) Very interested to hear what your views are on this.

I think Reinhard makes it clear that this is totally a matter of personal preference.

He doesn't care for artificial sweeteners personally, and so doesn't recommend them,
butremember in his book.."vanilla No S" allows caloric drinks between meals..
...EVEN sodas full of HFCS.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:48 pm

BrightAngel wrote:He doesn't care for artificial sweeteners personally, and so doesn't recommend them,
butremember in his book.."vanilla No S" allows caloric drinks between meals..
...EVEN sodas full of HFCS.

Not quite. Sugar-based sodas are specifically identified as "S's." The rule is caloric drinks are okay unless loaded with sugar, in which case they count as a sweet.

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:51 pm

KCCC wrote:[Not quite. Sugar-based sodas are specifically identified as "S's."
The rule is caloric drinks are okay unless loaded with sugar, in which case they count as a sweet.

Personally, I agree with you about sugar-based sodas.
On page 54 of the No S Diet, Reinhard says:

The No S Diet does not count drinks (even caloric ones) as snacks.

While he doesn't SPECIFICALLY say that sugared sodas are a sweet, it is implied.
BUT then on page 57, he says:

So from best to worst, here are my suggestons:
Water
Tea (green, especially)
Coffee, (black, especially)
Milk (whole isn't so bad)
100 percent fruit juice
Diet soda
Sugar soda.
Get as close to the top of this list as you can.

I personally think that milk should always be classifed as a food to be ingested at mealtime only,
and that fruit juice, and sugar-based sodas should both be listed as sweets.

Milk -while not considered "a sweet" -- consists of lactose, which is a form of sugar,
and whole milk is also full of fat. Protein, fat, and carbs--milk is food.

Fruit juice, is simply liquid fructose --masses of fruit without fiber,
and despite our lifetime of exposure to extensive marketing, it's actually NOT good for you,
and--although 100% juice isn't artificial--is totatally a sweet drink.

I very much disagree with Reinhard on the issue of Diet Sodas,
and on my own list Diet Soda would be far, far above milk and fruit juice
of acceptable in-between meal beverages.
Reinhard also makes it clear that his dislike of Artificial sweeteners isn't based on actual science,
and that this has never been a personal issue for him as they are not to his taste.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:28 pm

BrightAngel wrote: On page 54 of the No S Diet, Reinhard says:[/color]
The No S Diet does not count drinks (even caloric ones) as snacks.
While he doesn't SPECIFICALLY say that sugared sodas are a sweet, it is implied.

Actually, he DOES specifically say it. The very next sentence says "You can drink whatever you want, unless it's something full of sugar, in which case it counts as a sweet (See Chapter 3)". In chapter 3, he lists "sugar soda" as an obvious sweet.

Everyday Systems

What's a Fail?

What's a Fail?

Re: What's a Fail?

Re: What's a Fail?