Everyday Systems

Hi all!

I am a brand new No S dieter, as of this last Monday.

I am not doing No S because I want to lose weight, (I am a-all-sizes-of-bodies-are-beautiful-type person, and I also weigh a "healthy" amount) but because I hope it will help me to become more moderate and active in all areas of my life. Generally speaking, I am quite anti-diet, so this is new for me.

My mother has been doing this diet since January, and it seems like it's made her happier and encouraged her to be more active. (Hi mom, if you're reading this!) So that is part of why I decided to try it with my partner.

I am just wondering, do most people consider juice between meals on N days to be cheating? I have a really fast metabolism and a schedule which means I don't eat dinner til 7 or 8 most days, and I get REALLY HUNGRY between lunch and dinner. No matter how much I pile on my plate at lunch, it doesn't seem to help, I'm still starving by 5 and have at least 2 hours to go before I can eat.

Is having a glass of milk, veggie cocktail or unsweetened juice between meals a generally accepted way to solve this? I don't know if many people are in my position of not wanting to lose weight. Maybe this diet just isn't for me?

Thanks for any help!! I did look for the answer to this question already, and if I missed it sorry to re-ask.

I've only been doing No S for a week and my copy of the book is still winging it's way to me, hopefully others with more experience can weigh in but in my opinion it is just fine. From what I understand drinks (within reason, I'm not talking a supersize ice-cream milkshake here) are considered ok.
As far as I see it juice is not a snack, assuming it's fresh juice and not really processed and laden with added sugars, it's not a sweet, and it's not seconds.
For me I consider juice between meals ok, as long as I make sure it's the good stuff without too much sugar added.

I'm not doing straight vanilla No S though, I give myself a FFAT (fresh fruit at any time) mod. I mostly have it as part of a meal but I allow myself if I want it, one portion of fresh fruit between meals. That will be cheating to a lot of people but I'm happy with it for me, on every other aspect of No S I'm very strict with myself- one single bite of anything else is a fail and I have to have my whole meal in front of me and assessed for portion size before I start eating, so I'm clear in my mind what my meal consists of and anything I add to that would be seconds so would be a fail.

Scootaloo wrote:I don't know if many people are in my position of not wanting to lose weight. Maybe this diet just isn't for me?

I'm in a similar position; I am right in the middle of my ideal weight bracket and my health is fine. I'm here because I'd like it to stay that way. In that sense, this diet is for you.

The juice question pops up periodically on this board, and there are other discussions about it. I am perfectly happy to drink whatever I please between meals, but there are some for whom caloric beverages do present a problem. If you're happy with it and it solves a problem, I'd say stick with the glass of juice. One of the best things about this diet is that it allows for differences between people.

I will drink juice but not often. I usually drink a whey protein powder drink if needed because it keeps me fuller longer than juice does and I don't like milk.

ETA: I'm not looking to lose weight either. I do want to maintain.

My understanding is that technically NoS refers only to foods rather than drinks. However 'sweets' includes anything that could reasonably be seen as a dessert - so I include any milkshake as a 'sweet'.

Personally I am similar to you in that I have always been very anti-diet (I just can't hack having to cut out entire foods or food groups, or follow strict meal plans). But, I am overweight and am looking for a mild downward trend rather than creeping ever-nearer obesity!

While I don't count juice (or any other drink) as a NoS 'failure' I am experimenting with cutting out all 'calorific' drinks between meals to see if affects weight loss. On that basis I'm only drinking water (including flavoured sparkling waters), sugar-free squash and the occasional glass of skimmed milk at the moment.

On another note, I also struggle with the mid-afternoon hunger problem. I've always eaten dinner late (usually after 8pm) for most of my teenage and adult life. Trying to cut out snacks I was eating lunch at 12pm, dinner at 5-6pm and then getting more and more hungry between then and 11pm - resulting in quite a few failures. Another current experiment is a post-work mini-meal. I'm hoping that keeping it planned and healthy as part of NoS will prevent failures!

I voted that milk or juice was okay, but I personally tend to avoid juice. I'd rather eat fruit at meals. Juice can add a LOT of calories/sugar.

If I'm hungry, I might drink milk.... usually as a decaf cafe-au-lait (milk and coffee, no whipped cream or flavors in it).

But, to be honest, the longer i'm on No-S, the less I want caloric beverages between meals.

After my morning caffeine fix, I usually drink hot tea (herbal or green) or water (plain or sparkling) during the day. Sometimes a glass of wine at night.

I voted "no" because I'm worried about the calories in juice -- which is only partially true. I rarely drink juice; occasionally a glass of orange juice at breakfast. Juice eliminates the "good stuff" in fruit -- the fiber and gives you all the calories and sugar. Plus, it takes more than one serving of fruit to make a glass of juice. In addition, most people drink more than a serving of juice. I never drink milk.

I tend to drink coffee, water, or tea throughout the day. I don't use cream or sugar in either the coffee or tea and occasionally will add a slice of lemon or lime to water. Usually, even water is plain.

I haven't consumed full strength juice in years, because it is too sweet for my taste. We buy juice and dilute it 1:5 with water. Or we squeeze lemons into water.

I stopped drinking sodas over fifteen years ago. I was working as a bartender, and got pretty grossed out by how unsanitary soda systems were. In our bar, there was literally no way to clean the tubes that ran from the soda tanks to the taps. All that gloopy syrup just sat in the lines, festering. Yeccccccch!

Besides, I'm not convinced that sodas are real food. Highly addictive, highly flavored? Sure. But food? Not to my mind.

Lots of juices are pretty sugary, too.... That's why I water 'em down.

I don't think milk or juice is CHEATING, but I'm going to also admit that if I'm THIRSTY what I drink is WATER.

Now, I do drink a great deal of coffee, so I don't know if I can necessarily get on the liquid purity high horse.

I don't think it's a great idea to drink large quantities of fruit juice, so I don't do it. I don't think it's incompatible with No S, though, just my personal preference. I do drink 1-2 cans a day of Diet Coke (down from more like four!), so yeah, not a purist.

I think no-sugar added drinks are perfectly acceptable on Vanilla NoS, so that is what I voted. However, in practice, I enjoy a small glass of fruit juice (3-4 oz) daily with breakfast and not at any other time.

If I'm really, truly hungry and meal time is still a long time a-coming, I opt for a 1. a coffee or tea with milk added, or 2. a glass of milk, or 3. tomato juice, in that order. I've found that the coffee or tea with a bit of milk often does the trick to take the edge off my hunger...

I avoid taking in all of one type of calorie at any time, so I tend not to drink juice. I'd rather have the fruit at meal time. I do drink milk, either by itself or in coffee. I don't consider it cheating at all, though if someone was drinking any calories immoderately--say chugging down cup after cup or glass after glass-- it really wouldn't be keeping to the spirit of the law.

Seven and eight hours is a long time. Have the drink! Though you might be surprised to find after awhile that even that becomes unnecessary.

I know you said you pile on the food at lunch, but consider adding good oil or fats in 1 T. increments, or an ounce of cheese at a time. This is where fats show their advantage; they don't take up so much room but do add satiety. A Costco slice of pizza has lasted me 9 hours before.

Hot chocolate! It works like a charm. I get really hungry between meals, and a small mug of hot chocolate keeps my tummy calm until the next meal. For me it's been the key to success with No S.

juice is not cheating. have some and don't worry about it. try not to drink more than a few glasses a day though or it could be called an S.
i like to dilute it with some seltzer to make it a little fizzy.

I've been using "H2Orange" between meals to keep me hydrated and keep my blood sugar from dipping too low. Been drinking around 3 quarts a day. H2Orange is 1 part OJ to 7 parts water (with some stevia added to take away the tartness). Hope this helps. It adds minimal calories to my day (~150) but helps avoid being a crazy hungry monster the hour before the next meal (while I'm preparing everyone's lunch/dinner).

For me, juice between meals is cheating, but milk is not. Mostly because of the sweetness-tomato juice would probably be ok, but I've never really drank much tomato juice anyway.

If you want to concentrate on habit--not eating between meals--then juice would bridge the gap. It's definitely in the rules. But I found when I started that I was much more drawn to sweetened drinks than previously (for me it was a decaf mocha), and I wasn't adding them because I was hungry, but because they were good. I added new "food" to my habits! I absolutely love a glass of milk, but never does it whisper to my secret heart "treat".

What kind of habits did you have before in the time before dinner? Were you hungry then, or eating for other reasons? If food added something "nice" or a "treat" to your day, you should try to find a different, non-food treat to replace food pampering.

Skipping the snacks can create a "feeling" of hunger, which is, for me at least, part a change in food habits--the food at that time of day moved away to my plate at mealtime, and part a feeling of incompletion--I was doing something and now I'm not doing something, how can I be finished if I'm not doing something.

Anyway, I've thought too much about this now, and who knows if any of it applies anywhere outside my own skin! :)

I agree with Clarica. Juice between meals may or may not be acceptable depending on how sweet it is, but it feels like cheating to me. On the rare occasion that I just cannot stand the hunger, I opt for a cold glass of milk. I also agree with Clarica that tomato juice would be okay. I love tomato juice and had not thought of that as an option.

Officially, juice is OK, but if you have a problem with excessive consumption / sweet boundary blurring and think you can handle the additional deprivation it certainly could make sense to classify it as snack or sweet or both. Just make sure to continue to allow yourself plenty of fresh fruit at meals.

Reinhard