Question about calories

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pepper33
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Question about calories

Post by pepper33 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:39 am

Hi all!

New to No S - hope I am not asking a question that has been answered repeatedly elsewhere. I know the beauty of No S is that you don't have to count calories, but I have continued to use sparkpeople.com to track my food and exercise since I began No S, more because I like to keep track of what I eat than to be tyrannical about my calorie intake. My meals tend to be about 400 calories each, so I eat 4 a day instead of 3. I do very vigorous exercise so I think I need more calories than 1200. In fact, the calorie counters I have found say I need closer 2200 - which is impossible for me to get even with 4 meals. I simply cannot eat that much at one sitting (some days, yes, but not most). I am reaching out to the community because I want to do this healthy - I am much more interested in being healthy than in losing weight and I don't want to sabotage myself. Does anyone have a sense of how many calories they take and/or what the optimal amount might be? Like I said, I understand this is not supposed to be about counting calories but it is something I have been thinking about since I started this. And I am asking tonight because I have eaten all my meals and I can't sleep because I am soooo hungry! Finally drank some watered down juice. That wasn't enough so I ate a granola bar and I refuse to count a day as a failure because I ate when I was ravenous!

sheepish
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Post by sheepish » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:05 am

400 calorie meals? No wonder you're hungry!

Think you really need to increase the size of those meals. I would suggest adding in stuff that is quite dense in calories if you really don't like to eat a large volume of food in one go - butter your bread for sandwiches, eat an avocado alongside your meal, add some cheese, some peanut butter/or just a handful of nuts, drink a glass of full fat milk, etc, etc.

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Blithe Morning
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Post by Blithe Morning » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:05 am

400 calories per meal? I agree, that's not much. Bumping up meals to 600 - 700 calories is not adding a heck of a lot of food.

Per the advice above, add small amounts of calorie dense foods to your meals. Eat the "whole" or real versions of food. Cut back or eliminate the fat free/low cal versions.

Also, be ruthlessly honest about your relationship with food and weight and self image. The amount you eat and the exericse you do and some of the things you say (drinking watered down juice, can't eat more food at one sitting) sounds like someone with a case of body dysmorphic disorder. I'm not a mental health professional nor do I play one on the internet but I'm seeing red flags here. I also realize I could be wrong, so no offense intended.

Regarding counting the granola bar as a "fail", most of us here would say that yes, it is a technical fail, regardless of how hungry you were. Should you have eaten the granola bar? Probably. It's no fun being that hungry in the middle of the night. White knuckling it through the night when you have to get up and go to work the next morning just doesn't work.

Let's face it, there are times when you will be non-compliant. After all, No S is the way you will eat the rest of your life so it is not reasonable to expect that you will NEVER have a fail. Life just doesn't work that work that way. The important thing is that the fails are infrequent, are for compelling or important reasons i.e. the sake of a relationship or for a physical hunger, and that they do not derail the process.

Keeping track of the fails is important so you avoid the self deception and rationalization that some of us are prone to. If you don't like the word fail with all its moral baggage, you could use something else like the word slip.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:21 pm

You want to add calories to your meals, but not bulk? Oh, wait. I see that sheepish wrote exactly what I was going to write.

Not only does fat easily add calories to your meal, it also adds satisfaction and keeps you feeling fuller longer. Food also tastes better with some fat.

Over the last half of the twentieth century, we've been lied to about fats. There are certainly bad fats that we should avoid for reasons of health, but fat is not a bad or unhealthy thing.

In my opinion, one of the reasons low-fat diets haven't worked is that our food doesn't satisfy us. We've cut the fat consumption, but we're still hungry, so we eat more. We end up consuming more calories than we would have if consumed fat in our meals. Also, when fat is eliminated from prepared foods, something usually has to replace it for mouth feel and taste. It's usually simple carbohydrates. I happen to think there's nothing wrong with simple carbs, in their place. But when they're in everything and become the source of a large portion of our calorie intake, that's a problem.

Along this line, I would suggest you make sure you're eating real food rather than pre-packaged and highly processed foods. Real food is more satisfying than fake food.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

nosnos
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Hello

Post by nosnos » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:41 pm

I've been having similar issues regarding not eating enough during the day and being hungry after dinner. I have decided to bump up my breakfast and lunch to as many cals as possible so that by dinner I only need minimal amounts of calories and also so that I don't feel deprived.
I eat very healthily and eat A LOT of salad so I'm having to really pile my plates up for Breks and lunch but hopefully this will make things easier in the long run.... The reality is you either want to do no s OR snack, if you want no S to be sustainable you have to eat more at meals, it might take a little while until you are used to bigger meals, but I'm sure you'll get there if that's what you want to do. Also using real butter or coconut butter, avocados, nuts. Juices (not watered down) and milk or nut mylks (I feel best when I eat mainly raw food hence the coconut butter and nut mylks!) will bump up your calories. Good luck! Xx

Who Me?
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Post by Who Me? » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:42 pm

Are you a competitive athlete, or a ballet dancer? It seems as if your activity levels and food intake are out of balance.

I'm not sure that you're going to be able to successfully juggle everything you've got going on at the moment. Can you pause on the sparkpeople meal tracking? Can you allow yourself to eat food, without being a calorie accountant?

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sophiasapientia
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Post by sophiasapientia » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:00 pm

I agree with the others about eating more/adding more fat to curb hunger.
Does anyone have a sense of how many calories they take and/or what the optimal amount might be? Like I said, I understand this is not supposed to be about counting calories but it is something I have been thinking about since I started this. And I am asking tonight because I have eaten all my meals and I can't sleep because I am soooo hungry! Finally drank some watered down juice. That wasn't enough so I ate a granola bar and I refuse to count a day as a failure because I ate when I was ravenous!
As for calorie counting, is this something that you plan to continue to incorporate for the long-term on your No S journey? You ask about how many calories you should consume but I think that answer, if you are determined to count, is something you will need to figure out for yourself based on whether you want to lose weight, gain weight or maintain weight, what your N habits are, what your S day habits are and what your activity level is, etc. If you enjoy calorie counting -- and some people do -- then you can figure out your body's needs and divide your caloric intake accordingly throughout the week. But this isn't really anything that anyone can give you an easy answer for since only you know your habits/needs.

With that said, one of the many benefits of No S to me, is that I don't have to count calories -- just thinking about it gives me a headache -- and, since I don't enjoy it, I don't. I have a basic sense that my N habits plus my S Day habits plus my activity level are at the right level for me. But it takes time and trial/error to figure out how much one needs to eat at meals to see yourself to the next meal without being either overly hungry or overly stuffed. It is a process and a part of the No S journey. But the bottom line, calorie counting or not, is that if you are seriously hungry, you probably need to eat more at your meals and/or add in some fats.
Restarted No S (3rd times a charm!) January 2010 at 145 lbs

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BrightAngel
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Re: Question about calories

Post by BrightAngel » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:18 pm

wanderingturtle wrote:No S ...you don't have to count calories,
but I have continued to use sparkpeople.com to track my food and exercise
since I began No S, more because I like to keep track of what I eat
than to be tyrannical about my calorie intake.
My meals tend to be about 400 calories each, so I eat 4 a day instead of 3.
I do very vigorous exercise so I think I need more calories than 1200.
In fact, the calorie counters I have found say I need closer 2200 -
which is impossible for me to get even with 4 meals.

Does anyone have a sense of how many calories they take and/or what the optimal amount might be?
I understand this is not supposed to be about counting calories
but it is something I have been thinking about since I started this.
Wandering Turtle,

The No S Diet is compatable with calorie counting,
and there are many of us here who do this.
Most of those successful people here, who do not choose to count calories,
still use their basic knowledge of nutritional guidelines to limit their caloric intake.

I am one of those here who has always chosen to track my food intake
by logging it into a computer food journal which counts my calories.
I also closely watch my calorie intake as it is the only way
I can maintain my large weight loss.

The calorie "guidelines" are merely suggestions, based on averages,
and are frequently wrong for the individual person.

This is very individual matter. I know what works for me
because I've been tracking my food daily for almost 7 years.
These "Expert" charts tell me that at my age, my size, and my activitity level
I require between 1400 and 1500 calories per day,
However, my detailed records show that an average calorie intake of 1200 daily causes me to gain weight,
and in order to maintain my current weight,
my daily food intake must average between 1000-1100 calories.

The calorie count of a one plate meal depends on its contents.
One plate can easily hold either 2000+ calories or -200 calories.
Each of us must determine that issue for ourselves.

My largest meal of the day is about 400 - 500 calories,
then the others have to be small enough to
divide the remaining 500 or so calories left for the day.

Exercise makes you hungry.
However exercise does not burn as many extra calories as people think.
Calorie determinations of exercise burn are extremely inaccurate,
for a great many reasons, and normally they greately overestimate that actual number.

This is a VERY INDIVIDUAL MATTER,
you need to find out what works for you specifically,
and not rely on some number or amount
that is given you by other people.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Too solid flesh
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Post by Too solid flesh » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:28 pm

If you prefer to eat four small meals a day, that is perfectly compatible with No S.

Best of luck, whatever you decide works for you.
Be kind, for everybody you meet is fighting a hard battle.

pepper33
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Post by pepper33 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:03 pm

Thanks so much for your comments! Your suggestions about adding calories and not bulk have been very helpful and I have been trying to implement them and have successfully upped my calorie intake.

I understand how my question could look like I am calorie obsessed or have body dismorphic disorder. I assure you this is not the case! This is me simply trying to grapple with life changes. I don't do low fat, but before beginning No-S, I got so many calories from random snacking and ate a lot of veggie based meals which have a lot of bulk and few calories. When I began No-S, I cut out the snacks but didn't change my meals. So I was just feeling something wasn't right and your comments have helped me a lot. I will probably quit counting calories when I have a feel for how I am going to be eating from here on out. At this point, however, I just want to see what my meals look like and make sure I am not getting too many or too few. Actually, what I am most concerned about is too few because I do get a lot of physical activity each day.

I am not a competitive athlete but I am a bike commuter and my husband and I are training to do bike across America. Therefore, we put quite a few miles on the bike every day and with summer here I know I burn a lot of calories. We have been increasing our mileage in the past couple of weeks so my body is adjusting.

Thanks so much for your help. This is me just trying to get a feel for it and make sure I am implementing changes that will work with my life and be sustainable.

pepper33
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Post by pepper33 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:12 pm

BrightAngel - I reread your post after I posted my reply, and I just wanted to thank you for the comment about overestimating the number of calories exercise burns. It does put things into perspective. Cutting out snacking is a huge deal for me since I have been a grazer for so long, so I am having to relearn my body signals. I know as I do this longer, I will learn what my body needs!

mamamia
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Post by mamamia » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:37 pm

wanderingturtle, I understand what you mean about eating low-calorie, high-bulk at meals. Ever since doing South Beach years ago I have regularly had salad for lunch. On No-S that is just not enough! I am finding I really enjoy sandwiches for lunch now because they fill me up until dinner. When I was eating just salad for lunch I was into the cookies, chocolate, etc, by 4 pm!! I have to admit part of me feels a little decadent eating sandwiches at lunchtime, which, when you think about it, is kind of silly, isn't it?

Good luck with your Bike across America! Sounds like a lot of fun.

Who Me?
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Post by Who Me? » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:52 pm

Keep us up to date on your cycling! We'll be cheering for you.

My partner suffered a spinal cord injury a few years back, and is paraplegic. Just two weeks ago, he clocked four thousand miles on his recumbent trike.

pepper33
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Post by pepper33 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:00 am

mamamia - That may be my issue. I just feel so decadent eating all this food. Less than I ate before but more than I am used to at one time.

Who Me? - That is awesome!

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:38 pm

Good golly, this got a lot of replies. I didn't read them all.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with many others and not recommend that you up the calories. I've looked at many meal logs here and I would say many women are eating 1600 calories or less. The No S diet does not defy the laws of calorie use. People who have lost weight have naturally chosen to eat less than they use, whether they know the calorie count or not. I believe the calorie fluctuations of N days and S days make this much less painful than aiming at a consistent calorie deficit every day.

I know from experience that many of my N days are about 1500 calories, but divided over three meals plus zero to two mochas a day. Some less--as low as 1,200 calories, but it just worked out that way--, some more. And sometimes mocha instead of breakfast, but just when I am truly not hungry in the morning.

I recommend making sure you have 4-6 hours between your meals and increase their density content. The multiple-hour gaps seem to have something to do with satiety with smaller overall calorie content. I think you'll find that you will adapt to three meals. My day during the regular work week goes from 5:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. and I adapted to 3 meals rather quickly after 7 years of 5 meals a day. Drink milk before bed if you are truly hungry. Regard most vigorous exercise as icing on the cake. Or exercise less! (Heresy!) Personally, I don't believe you should be eating so that you can exercise a lot, unless you believe that you will actually exercise at that level for the rest of your life or you are seriously involved in a sport that demands it.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
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1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
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2 yrs flux 6/20 22
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