Clearly NOT working for me :(

Nicole in MD · Post by **Nicole in MD** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:08 pm

Hi everyone! Sorry I've been MIA. Well, I wish I had better news to report but after doing No S for about a month and not weighing, I got on the scale yesterday and am up to 181.6 This is roughly 9 lbs higher than when I started No S. I could be ok with a 9lb gain if I were starting off "underweight" but I wasn't. I was 173 when I started and a healthy size 12. I have read what R says about a "vanity weight" but I really don't feel like being a size 12 is vanity for me. Now maybe if I was striving to be a size 10 I could agree since I'm not even sure I was a 10 in highschool while playing two sports.

As you could probably tell from some of the menus I posted, I *thought* I was still being pretty good during the week (I still tried to stay away from gluten and used mostly brown rice wraps or Whole Foods gluten free prarie bread). Never had even ONE red day for the whole month!

On the weekends, I never felt like I went crazy. Maybe some fries with my meal or a dessert here or there (usually only one of the weekend days, not both). I did usually eat a piece of challah french toast on Sunday mornings when we went out to eat along with my omelete or eggs. I never snacked and never had seconds--even on my S days.

Unfortunately, for me, I really think my body is just THAT sensitive to sugar and carbs and adding any amount in, no matter how small I think it is, does negatively affect my weight. I am now pushing staying in my 12's and even tried on a pair of 14's at Old Navy (the Flirt fit) that unfortunately, fit me perfectly.

So as much as I did NOT want to have to modify No S (since it kinda defeats the purpose of not having to be crazy with everything you eat), I think I need to basically do Paleo during the week and then on the weekends keep doing Paleo but maybe have some Paleo treats (like sweets made with almond and coconut flour and a little coconut nectar as a sweetner).

I definitely am typing this with a heavy heart since I REALLY wanted vanilla No S to work but it clearly isn't since a 9lb gain is pretty major in less than 4 weeks.

Oh and I am walking about 5 days a week--about 40 min each time and at a pretty fast rate.

Anyone have any thoughts for me???

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:50 pm

Where are the menus you posted?

milliem · Post by **milliem** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:22 pm

Well firstly, don't panic

If you are sure that your portion size is sensible (it all fits on one reasonably sized plate) then there must be a reason for weight gain, it doesn't just happen for no reason!

Are you eating a lot of pre-packaged or take out food? Often these are surprisingly calorie heavy (sandwiches or a ceaser salad laden with mayonnaise for example). Are you eating a LOT more on weekends that may be cancelling out or countering any possible weight loss?

Might it be worth actually tracking the calories in your food for a week, just to see what range they are falling in and where the excess calories are coming in? Calorie counting isn't a pain, but I've found it useful on and off as a tool to check out how many calories I am taking in and see what meals I should eat less of.

NoS fits with a lot of other 'diets', so if carbs don't work for you then you can easily stick with the NoS structure while focusing on having a lot of protein, fats and vegetables in your diet. As you say, you can even look for treats that are light on carbs. I'm always in two minds about low carb diets, they seem to have a solid fan base and have good results, but I always worry that as soon as you start reintroducing carbs into a diet weight piles back on! Plus personally I would find it reaaallly hard to cut them out or even down, I am a carb lover

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:33 pm

I've learned that anytime you eliminate a food group from your diet, you're going to lose weight. Depending on the food group, it might be a lot of water weight, not "actual" weight. When (and if) you resume eating that food, you're going to gain weight. So that could be at least part of your weight gain.

Nicole in MD · Post by **Nicole in MD** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:43 pm

wosnes wrote:Where are the menus you posted?

Sorry--meant to say they are posted in my thread on the Daily Check In page. Here's the link- http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8811

Nicole in MD · Post by **Nicole in MD** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:47 pm

wosnes wrote:I've learned that anytime you eliminate a food group from your diet, you're going to lose weight. Depending on the food group, it might be a lot of water weight, not "actual" weight. When (and if) you resume eating that food, you're going to gain weight. So that could be at least part of your weight gain.

I can see your point but it's not like I was underweight. I would say I ate Paleo for about a year and was able to maintain my weight (around 170). And I did give No S a full month, without weighing, to see if things evened out but I just keep gaining.

Just not sure where to go from here besides Paleo since I know it agrees with my body (as much as I want to be able to eat carbs, I have to admit that I notice a HUGE difference in bloating and gas as soon as I started eating them again). Sounds gross but I had almost no gas while eating Paleo (not even sure that's a good thing but the bloating is definitely not a good thing since it's uncomfortable).

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:07 am

I wrote a really long (even longer than this!) response but decided to just keep it separately because I so often go overboard. (Apparently, food is not the only thing I overdo, though food less so these days...) If you would like to read it, I'll send it to you or post it.

I'll just humbly say that it seems to me that things were stacked against No S "working" for you in such a short time. A month is not enough time to learn new habits permanently. You hadn't actually even been overeating. In fact, you've been restricting, (a year on Paleo and how long on HCG?) and "freedom" after "restricting" is typically followed by overeating (even if not pronounced) and weight gain, even among the naturally thin. They eventually go back to their previous lower weight, but it takes months. So if those who never had to think about their eating or weight take months to recover a sense of balance, why should a month be enough time for someone who was overweight? And if you weren't very overweight, why shouldn't it take quite awhile to thwart a possibly healthy weight?

Were you similarly hungry and sated by your meals on No S as you were on Paleo? Or were you getting fuller on No S?

I do believe that you could learn how to eat all foods in the amounts right for you and a reasonable weight, especially if you had never been really heavy, but it will not necessarily happen in the time frame you'd like. You might end up eating a lot fewer carbs than you were this last month.

Why did you do the HCG?

Hope you find your happy weight, whether it's with No S or not. That's the weight you know you can sustain because you are eating and moving in relative peace and can fit it in the rest of your life rather than the other way around. May we all experience it as soon as it will remain.

Nicole in MD · Post by **Nicole in MD** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:19 am

oolala53 wrote:I wrote a really long (even longer than this!) response but decided to just keep it separately because I so often go overboard. (Apparently, food is not the only thing I overdo, though food less so these days...) If you would like to read it, I'll send it to you or post it.

I'll just humbly say that it seems to me that things were stacked against No S "working" for you in such a short time. A month is not enough time to learn new habits permanently. You hadn't actually even been overeating. In fact, you've been restricting, (a year on Paleo and how long on HCG?) and "freedom" after "restricting" is typically followed by overeating (even if not pronounced) and weight gain, even among the naturally thin. They eventually go back to their previous lower weight, but it takes months. So if those who never had to think about their eating or weight take months to recover a sense of balance, why should a month be enough time for someone who was overweight? And if you weren't very overweight, why shouldn't it take quite awhile to thwart a possibly healthy weight?

Were you similarly hungry and sated by your meals on No S as you were on Paleo? Or were you getting fuller on No S?

I do believe that you could learn how to eat all foods in the amounts right for you and a reasonable weight, especially if you had never been really heavy, but it will not necessarily happen in the time frame you'd like. You might end up eating a lot fewer carbs than you were this last month.

Why did you do the HCG?

Hope you find your happy weight, whether it's with No S or not. That's the weight you know you can sustain because you are eating and moving in relative peace and can fit it in the rest of your life rather than the other way around. May we all experience it as soon as it will remain.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough reply!!! The funny thing is that I felt like the No S habits were really easy for me to "learn" since I had cut out sugar previously (except coconut nectar and coconut sugar), had cut out snacking previously due to having researched The Leptin Principle and it making sense to me that snacking taxes the liver, and I rarely ate seconds or snacked. I guess that's why I had not ONE red day in a month.

I originally did HCG to FINALLY get the weight off of me from my third son. When eating whatever I want without much thought to health, I settled around 190lbs. and couldn't budge. That was a solid size 16 for me. I tried Weight Watchers, Atkins and many other diets. I'd lose 5 lbs and then stall and then gain it right back. HCG was the ONLY thing that worked for me in the past 10 years and it got me to 165 lbs in about 60 days. I then maintained that weight for almost a year by eating Paleo. I know that my healthy weight is somewhere between 165-175 but more than that, my goal was to just be healthy and hopefully be in a size 12. That's pretty much where I was before having kids and while playing sports (definitely more towards the low end of that in high school and college--maybe even 160lbs then).

The thing that's confusing is that while I want to be able to eat grains and carbs, I have to admit that they do bloat me and give me gas. I have to think this is my body's way of telling me to steer clear.

I would say my hunger was sated about equally on No S and Paleo since I never really was a huge eater or over-eater. Pretty much always been a one-plater with no seconds.

I guess this is just going to take some experimenting to find my "sweet spot". I thought it was between 170-175 but now that I'm at 182, I have to wonder why it's still going higher and higher.

mastermesh · Post by **mastermesh** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:35 am

I am still fairly new to the forums here, but one thing that I'm wondering about is if maybe you don't have a food allergy of some sort and it's only certain grains?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/55326 ... -hot-ears/

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:27 am

Oh, I had it backwards. HCG was first. In that case, Paleo did a good job.

Boy, isn't it all complicated. It's amazing the problems abundance can create. At least it doesn't sound like you won't enjoy yourself to some degree back on Paleo.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:57 am

It sounds like you should go back to eating the foods that work best for your body. If you can find treats that work with the paleo plan, then all the better.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:00 am

Your body is starving, you finally are feeding it what it wants, and it is indulging. Do you want to be managing your weight by paying careful attention to exactly what goes into it, or are you willing to give up on a specific weight goal and let your body gradually gain confidence that another starvation period is not in your future?
Kathleen

Nicole in MD · Post by **Nicole in MD** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:47 am

Kathleen wrote:Your body is starving, you finally are feeding it what it wants, and it is indulging. Do you want to be managing your weight by paying careful attention to exactly what goes into it, or are you willing to give up on a specific weight goal and let your body gradually gain confidence that another starvation period is not in your future?
Kathleen

I honestly can't imagine my body was starving since I was eating around 2,000 calories on Paleo and sometimes those 2,000 calories were made up of 50% of calories from healthy fats. I suppose you could mean it was starving for grains but then I have to wonder why my body responds so negatively to them (bloating and gas).

And I'm really not attached to a certain weight--as evidenced by the fact that I ended HCG at 165 but was 173 when I started No S. I would have been totally fine being in the 170-175 area but once I start going higher than that, I really do start getting fatter on my thighs, stomach and face and then I go into a size 14--which I don't think is as healthy for my body type as a size 12 is. I don't have a weight goal but I do want to look and feel healthy and even with walking 5 days a week, I was putting on weight rather quickly in this past month (9 lbs).

TexArk · Post by **TexArk** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:19 pm

Nichole,

I have been eating Paleo (defined as grain and sugar free) for nearly 2 years. It has worked well with NoS and it is the only way I have ever eaten where I am not hungry. When I add in grains (not necessarily carbs), my fingers swell so that I can't wear my rings and I have tummy bloat.

When I eat too many carbs, I get hungry and start having cravings. From reading this board, you can see we are all different. Some people seem to do fine with a bowl of cereal for breakfast. I am hungry within the hour after a grain breakfast. If I eat a high protein breakfast (as in the leptin reset you tried) I am not hungry until the middle of the afternoon! I am not sure that I can eat more calories when I eat Paleo; I think I just naturally eat fewer calories because I am not hungry. And like you, NoS is easy when you have already given up sweets and eating between meals.

I have stalled about 10 lbs. above where I would like to be, but I am also wearing size 12s and that is fine with me.

Again, some people feel so deprived not having grains and sugar that they cannot conceive of eating without these foods. For me, I am very satisfied and feel balanced eating healthy meats, fish, eggs, vegetables and fruits. I eat small servings of rice and sweet potatoes. The only thing I have to watch is not overdoing cheese, nuts, and seeds. On S Days I sometimes have a small serving of ice cream outside the house.

Good luck. You can do this. Go with what works for you.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:40 pm

Nicole,

Can you be tested for food allergies? That would be a first step. When I first started on the Intuitive Eating approach, I was above 200 pounds. The diet was that you eat what you want and then your body no longer craves what you want. I had not eaten peanut clusters in perhaps 20 years. The week that I started, I literally cleared the local grocery store out of them and my kids called my diet "The Peanut Cluster Diet." I may have gone through 20 bags of peanut clusters in two weeks. That's what may have happened to you with your food restrictions, only you have eliminated a whole category of food instead of one specific non-essential food like peanut clusters.

I personally question the wisdom of depriving yourself of any food. While I believe in No S, take what I say with the understanding that I weighed 215 pounds when I started on 9/8/08 and last weighed about 216 last Friday.

Kathleen

Nicole in MD · Post by **Nicole in MD** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:52 pm

Kathleen wrote:Nicole,

Can you be tested for food allergies? That would be a first step. When I first started on the Intuitive Eating approach, I was above 200 pounds. The diet was that you eat what you want and then your body no longer craves what you want. I had not eaten peanut clusters in perhaps 20 years. The week that I started, I literally cleared the local grocery store out of them and my kids called my diet "The Peanut Cluster Diet." I may have gone through 20 bags of peanut clusters in two weeks. That's what may have happened to you with your food restrictions, only you have eliminated a whole category of food instead of one specific non-essential food like peanut clusters.

I personally question the wisdom of depriving yourself of any food. While I believe in No S, take what I say with the understanding that I weighed 215 pounds when I started on 9/8/08 and last weighed about 216 last Friday.

Kathleen

I suppose I could get tested for allergies but really, my body is pretty clear with me with what makes it happy LOL For example--I've had a low grade sore throat for the past 2 months. I've been to the ENT doctors twice now and all he said was that he saw signs of post nasal drip in the back of my throat. He threw a nose spray and a script for an antacid at me and sent me on my way. Well, when I started Paleo two days ago, I stopped using all dairy. I wasn't eating much--cream in my coffee every day and a slice or two of cheese a day--but it was a change from when I was eating Paleo. Well, I woke up this morning and realized my throat didn't hurt for the first time in two months--right about when I started using cream in my coffee again. Could it really be that simple? Not sure but I'm going to keep dairy out and see if the sore throat stays away. If it does, I clearly have an issue with dairy (as most of us do since we are not baby cows

And as I've said, the grains definitely affect my tummy in yucky ways. So not matter how much I want to be able to eat it, I'm starting to think I should pay attention to those signs my body is giving me--weight loss or not.

Nicole in MD · Post by **Nicole in MD** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:52 pm

TexArk wrote:Nichole,

I have been eating Paleo (defined as grain and sugar free) for nearly 2 years. It has worked well with NoS and it is the only way I have ever eaten where I am not hungry. When I add in grains (not necessarily carbs), my fingers swell so that I can't wear my rings and I have tummy bloat.

When I eat too many carbs, I get hungry and start having cravings. From reading this board, you can see we are all different. Some people seem to do fine with a bowl of cereal for breakfast. I am hungry within the hour after a grain breakfast. If I eat a high protein breakfast (as in the leptin reset you tried) I am not hungry until the middle of the afternoon! I am not sure that I can eat more calories when I eat Paleo; I think I just naturally eat fewer calories because I am not hungry. And like you, NoS is easy when you have already given up sweets and eating between meals.

I have stalled about 10 lbs. above where I would like to be, but I am also wearing size 12s and that is fine with me.

Again, some people feel so deprived not having grains and sugar that they cannot conceive of eating without these foods. For me, I am very satisfied and feel balanced eating healthy meats, fish, eggs, vegetables and fruits. I eat small servings of rice and sweet potatoes. The only thing I have to watch is not overdoing cheese, nuts, and seeds. On S Days I sometimes have a small serving of ice cream outside the house.

Good luck. You can do this. Go with what works for you.

I just read this article yesterday about why it is good for some people to go totally grain-free. It was perfect timing because my boyfriend just COULD NOT understand how beans could be bad for you. I also like how she talks about how the wheat of today is nothing like the wheat of our ancestors. We can thank companies like Monsanto for that

http://www.grassfedgirl.com/6-reasons-to-go-grain-free/

It's funny you mention the swelling because I have notice my watch has been tighter on my wrist since adding grains and dairy back into my diet! I guess that goes right along with the whole inflammatory response some people have from grains (as she talks about in the article).

milliem · Post by **milliem** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:16 pm

Nicole in MD wrote:
I honestly can't imagine my body was starving since I was eating around 2,000 calories on Paleo and sometimes those 2,000 calories were made up of 50% of calories from healthy fats. I suppose you could mean it was starving for grains but then I have to wonder why my body responds so negatively to them (bloating and gas).

So you know you can maintain your weight on a Paleo diet where you eat around 2000 calories a day - and that was at a healthy weight for you? Maybe you can think about the kinds of meals you were eating while doing this, and just... cut some out! Perhaps just following NoS will cut out any snacks or extra portions that you would eat using this method, or you might need to rethink what you eat. Perhaps switching to more protein and vegetables and less of the fats? Using a smaller plate?

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:52 pm

No S might not work if you have certain health conditions. I'm no doctor, but have you ever been tested for Celiac's disease.

Sixty · Post by **Sixty** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:17 am

... after doing No S for about a month and not weighing ....

I'm in the group of those who hops on the scale every morning for a daily weigh-in. Without this, I find that my weight climbs ever-so-slightly every day, even with No-S, so I need to keep an eye on it. For me it's essential to weight control. I was just wondering why you decided to skip the weigh-ins for a month? Did you have a regular weigh-in schedule before this?

TexArk · Post by **TexArk** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:24 pm

@Sixty

Ditto to weighing in every morning.

I have been at this weight control thing for 45 years and every time I put away the scale I gain weight. The daily check in is essential for me. I enter the number into a daily log and can readily see patterns. I know that the scale number goes up and down for various reasons. I do not make my eating decisions for the day based on the scale number, but if I only weigh weekly or monthly, weight gain sneaks up on me.

I think if you weigh daily you get used to the routine and soon get past the celebration when you lose and despair when you gain. It is just a routine like brushing your teeth.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:13 pm

hi nicole

good luck finding what works for you.. i gained a lot of weight in the two years of trying to be vegetarian because i had so much more carbs.. bread at almost every meal or pasta etc.. i gained about 30 lbs.. once i went back to meat, i limited my processed grains considerably and found it much easier to finally lose weight along with doing some regular exercise. there is nothing in NoS that tells you, that you have to eat any specific thing.. it's a framework for your willpower to succeed and a way to learn how to develop good habits and get rid of bad ones.. so don't feel that you can't do paleo style eating with NoS guidelines.. do whatever you need to do to succeed and be happy. everyone is different. i don't feel that any one type of diet is tailor made for anyone and we all have to do our share of experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. wishing you success in finding what works for you!
deb

NoSRocks · Post by **NoSRocks** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:06 pm

DITTO all of the above!

Good luck in whatever you decide is best for you, hon.

oliviamanda · Post by **oliviamanda** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:15 pm

gratefuldeb67, I have been not eating meat for about 4 years now. I have not seen a weight change. I was hoping that it would help in the weight department, it certainly has helped with my cholesterol and keeps me away from fried foods in general. I do not regret eating this way, but I agree that carbs become a big part of the diet. I've been trying to eat healthier grains, but I always see the scale go up when I have white flour or just more carbs than usual.

I weigh myself every day and I am back to keeping a daily food journal. Therefore, I can tell how my eating affects the scale. In general, I would say I make healthy choices in what I consume. No S is great because no foods are forbidden, but really a lot of our food options are not easily digestable and make us gain weight, even if they are allowed to be a part of the 3 meals-a-day.