Struggling With "All-Or-Nothing" Thinking

Ruamgirl · Post by **Ruamgirl** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:34 pm

I'm pretty OCD, so I suppose it's not surprising that I've encountered this problem. I use HabitCal to track my No S Diet compliance, and for some reason it tends to trigger all-or-nothing thinking for me. What I mean is that if I slip up and have a sweet tea or something on a N day, I tend to think, well I've blown so I might as well enjoy a brownie too. The thing is that if I've already had a sweetened beverage, I know that this day is now officially red, so I might as well just go all out. I realize that this is a very stupid way to look at things, but I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem. If so, how did you conquer it?

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:36 pm

this is a hard problem for many.. i think your best bet is to just mark it and move on.. tomorrow is another day... we all mess up, just keep trying and don't beat yourself up..
good luck!

mastermesh · Post by **mastermesh** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:44 pm

instead of using a black or white thing -- or two colors or whatever, why not try something with more than one tone... I sort of use a calendar to track good habits. One dash is a 'good' day for the first habit (working out in morning), a line up and down through the dash, making a cross out of the dash is good for two habits... (second is working out in evening)... slash lower left to upper right is good for habbit three, and slash the other way is for habit four... Need more, use a circle around the star you've made... half circle is half completion of that final task, full circle is full completion of that habit/good deed/task whatever... need a new one... square around the circle. and finally if you need even more, you can fill in the pies of the star like a pie chart.

In your case, you could use it to track first habit as morning... second as lunch... third as supper... fourth as avoiding snacks... and so on...

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getting really off track here... but... since we are talking about black and white thinking... something many don't know in the general populace is that many people have borderline personality disorder or be related/close to someone who is and not even realize it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline ... y_disorder

I don't think you have it... but if you are thinking black and white too much it might be that someone close to you has it and some of their tendencies have rubbed off on to you consciously or subconsciously... happened to my wife because her mother had it but was never officially diagnosed...

strange as it sounds, or maybe it doesn't one way that I helped my wife get out of some of the tendencies of that was dropping out of going to Church... not that I was ever a super regular church goer in the first place... (ok as a college kid and before I was)... reason being Church amplifies the black and white thinking... just something to think about... sometimes old habits have to be broken to make room for new habits... and sometimes something that seems good on the surface may actually be bad for you... the world is sometimes more complicated than it seems to be at first.

EmilyGF · Post by **EmilyGF** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:59 am

I just left my HabitCal blank on the day I didn't completely succeed. I didn't feel like it was a RED failure day because I ate an appetizer with dinner. I still avoided cookies and a latte at the coffee shop and what would have been a dessert with dinner.

BTW, my No-S allows a coffee with cream in the morning and a tea with a bit of sugar (about a teaspoon) in the afternoon. Just like you're supposed to be reasonable about sugar, and it is OK to have jam on toast, be reasonable about what a snack is.

Now, if you're drinking a gallon of sweet tea...

Emily

ironchef · Post by **ironchef** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:41 am

Ruamgirl wrote:What I mean is that if I slip up and have a sweet tea or something on a N day, I tend to think, well I've blown so I might as well enjoy a brownie too. The thing is that if I've already had a sweetened beverage, I know that this day is now officially red, so I might as well just go all out. I realize that this is a very stupid way to look at things, but I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem. If so, how did you conquer it?

Do you have a daily check in thread? If not, I suggest perhaps you start one. I use the daily check in to report on what happened if I had a red day and it really helps me to stop the "what the hell" effect. I like the accountability of marking red on the HabitCal. It's important for me to report yes, this was red, not "oh, it was just some marshmallows". That kind of grey area easily becomes a slippery slope for me - I'm a real black and white thinker too.

However, and this is important, it is really great to go to your daily check in and write "today was red, as I slipped up and had a soda with lunch, but the rest of the day went well". That is much, much easier to write than "I slipped up and had a soda, so I spent the afternoon face down in a box of cookies, a pint of icecream and half a loaf of PB&J sandwiches".

Anyway, just a suggestion that works really well for me. Reinhard also has a good podcast on the WTH effect.

milliem · Post by **milliem** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:38 am

Remember that NoS includes no sweets not no sugar! A teaspoon of sugar in a cup of tea, or a drop of sugar to sweeten a homemade tomato sauce, a squirt of runny honey in a bowl of porridge... all things that I would be ok having on an N day. Generally what I would consider as a 'sweet' is something that would fit nicely on a dessert menu, or full sugar drinks (like a milkshake or cola). I'm pretty sure that's along the same lines as the NoS book, although everyone draws their own line in the sand

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:29 pm

milliem wrote:Remember that NoS includes no sweets not no sugar! A teaspoon of sugar in a cup of tea, or a drop of sugar to sweeten a homemade tomato sauce, a squirt of runny honey in a bowl of porridge... all things that I would be ok having on an N day. Generally what I would consider as a 'sweet' is something that would fit nicely on a dessert menu, or full sugar drinks (like a milkshake or cola). I'm pretty sure that's along the same lines as the NoS book, although everyone draws their own line in the sand

this is true milliem... but "sweet tea" which is offered mainly at fast food places, is not just with sugar.. it pretty much has as much sugar as soda...

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:16 pm

Ruamgirl wrote:I'm pretty OCD, so I suppose it's not surprising that I've encountered this problem. I use HabitCal to track my No S Diet compliance, and for some reason it tends to trigger all-or-nothing thinking for me. What I mean is that if I slip up and have a sweet tea or something on a N day, I tend to think, well I've blown so I might as well enjoy a brownie too. The thing is that if I've already had a sweetened beverage, I know that this day is now officially red, so I might as well just go all out. I realize that this is a very stupid way to look at things, but I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem. If so, how did you conquer it?

if you are traveling to a destination on the freeway, and you miss your exit, do you carsh your car into the wall? I hope not!

So why would you go on a binge if you had a slip?

milliem · Post by **milliem** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:01 pm

gratefuldeb67 wrote: this is true milliem... but "sweet tea" which is offered mainly at fast food places, is not just with sugar.. it pretty much has as much sugar as soda...

Ooh really? We don't really get that over here in the UK

I don't even have sugar with my cuppa! Is it like iced tea?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:46 pm

milliem wrote:
gratefuldeb67 wrote: this is true milliem... but "sweet tea" which is offered mainly at fast food places, is not just with sugar.. it pretty much has as much sugar as soda...
Ooh really? We don't really get that over here in the UK I don't even have sugar with my cuppa! Is it like iced tea?

Sweet tea is iced tea -- with a LOT of sugar. It's very common in the southern US, but is available just about everywhere. Here in the midwest I haven't seen it at too many places except fast food places, though it's becoming available at more and more places.

r.jean · Post by **r.jean** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:08 pm

I have always wanted a way to track days with one S event versus a full blown S day on my habit cal. It is totally different to have one piece of birthday cake on a weekday versus having a full blown S day. I think this would help avoid the WTH effect.

The way I do it now is to count the Birthday cake day as yellow, a NWS day. A full blown free for all on a weekday is a red.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:48 pm

I think just acknowledging it can be part of it, and it is not just an OCD symptom. It is the NORM in many dieters, as reported by Roy Baumeister and was one of the most surprising discoveries because it seems so illogical. In fact, using an OCD technique can help. Acknowledge that the thought is just a brain pattern and does not represent any truth of real need for food at the moment, and divert to a pleasurable or productive activity.

Another technique from another board is one in which you imagine the compulsion carried out to its end and the subsequent overfull and disappointed feelings more distinctly than the pleasure of the moment of giving in, as we slip often when we magnify that pleasure and underplay the discomfort of the consequence.

Thirdly, remind yourself that when you give in, you strengthen the giving-in habit, and when you don't, you strengthen the coping habit.

Or, really examine the sensations of the urge and determine that honestly, they are not that terrible or horrible, and could be tolerated until they either pass or dissipate. More food will be coming later and you can get back on track then.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:15 pm

A brainstorm idea: I haven't tried this idea but it would require offline tracking using a paper calendar and .... Crayons. (I love crayons).

Your reds would range from the lightest pink to full blown fire engine red. One cookie would be a soft pink, a full day binge-fest would be the loudest, brightest red in the box.

Or you could give yourself stars: green, yellow, and red stars. For every time you go off habit, you have to give yourself another red star. The goal is to end up with as few red stars as possible.

I may have to do this just for the crayons.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:27 pm

For a while, I used an extra habitcal for that - call it "non-idiot" or something that resonate with you.

It is only used to track "red" days on the regular habitcal (and, if you like, the S days).

For a day that was a technical red, but just barely and otherwise a perfect Nday, I'd put red on the normal calendar and green on the non-idiot one. For one that I got pretty seriously off-track but pulled out, a yellow. Red is a face-down-in-the-food day, the sort where you know you're being an idiot while you're doing it.

Or, as suggested above, just keep tabs in your dairy. It IS more satisfying to write something like "I failed a little, then succeeded" than "I failed and kept failing."

Ruamgirl · Post by **Ruamgirl** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:58 pm

I appreciate the advice, everyone. Thank you!

@ gratefuldeb67: I'm definitely going to keep trying. This is too good of a lifestyle for me to give up so quickly.

@ mastermesh: As a psych major, I'm very much familiar with BPD, and I think you're right in that it does affect how we look at things. I have a friend who (in my opinion) has it, so it might have rubbed off on me.

@ EmilyGF: I am sweet tea fiend unfortunately. Not sure why. I crave it more often than soda for some reason.

@ ironchef: That's a very good idea. I'm going to start doing a daily check-in.

@ milliem: Yeah, when I say sweet tea, I mean the kind that has about as much sugar as a can of Coke.

@ Jethro: I don't really binge, but I use a slip-up as an excuse to not be compliant for the rest of the day.

@ oolala53: You always have awesome advice. You really get the psychology behind it, I think.

@ Blithe Morning: I love crayons too! Good excuse to go out and buy some.

@ KCCC: I've considered just tracking my successes and failures in a notebook or something until I get the habits down. Your idea about the "non-idiot" habitcal is a good one.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:06 pm

So, to paraphrase Dr. Phil, how's the all or nothing thinking working for you?

Ruamgirl · Post by **Ruamgirl** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:16 pm

@ wosnes: It's not. And it's not just eating either. It affects other aspects of my life as well. I'm just something of a perfectionist. But, I'm working on it.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:02 pm

I've never understood the all-or-nothing way of thinking in terms of dieting. To me it's like saying I wasn't a good wife/mother/employee today so I may as well just be really rotten. Generally if we find we've behaved badly, we go the other direction and maybe even go overboard in our attempts to be good.

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Struggling With "All-Or-Nothing" Thinking

Struggling With "All-Or-Nothing" Thinking

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Re: Struggling With "All-Or-Nothing" Thinking