I'm back to No S after failing about 3 times before this, but I really need a strict set of rules to keep me in check. Here are the reasons I think I failed the first time and I wonder if anyone has any ideas to help address these:
1) If I mess up once early in the day, I just regard the entire day as a red day and go overboard instead of just starting new after my one mess up.
2) I try to eat more at meals so I don't get ravenous in between them, but then I end up eating so much that I don't see any weight loss, and then I get impatient and quit.
3) In my mind I know why NoS works and I know how to implement it (by being as strict as possible with the rules), but sometimes when no one is around I just eat everything I can (a closet eater I guess). My mind knows that this is bad and that I am only hurting myself, but for some reason I just don't care enough to stop. But then I get mad at myself. This cycle has been continuing for a long time. I want to lose weight so badly, but sometimes I just ignore this when I'm feeling a little extra hungry, when I'm bored, when there is something delicious in the cabinets and no one else is around. After I'm full I can rationalize forever...but for some reason when I'm in the moment the rational thoughts don't come to mind fast enough and before I know it I've eaten a TON.
I'm starting new tomorrow and I hope that this time it will actually work and I can stop going crazy and beating myself up about food and maybe actually lose weight for once!
Thanks to any help anyone can give me!!!
Trying again, with questions!!!
Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating
I've been thinking about this all day. This is going to be pretty "in your face."
When you care enough to stop these behaviors, you'll care enough to actually follow No-S. You don't need help from any of us, you need some self-control.
When you care enough to stop these behaviors, you'll care enough to actually follow No-S. You don't need help from any of us, you need some self-control.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
Re: Trying again, with questions!!!
There is a good thread just a few below this one called "struggling with "all or nothing" thinking" that addresses this in some detail. Also, check out Reinhard's podcast about "what the hell" effect.jld141 wrote: 1) If I mess up once early in the day, I just regard the entire day as a red day and go overboard instead of just starting new after my one mess up.
OK, so it's good you are aware of this issue. My meals were pretty massive at first, and I didn't worry about weight loss, I just used HabitCal to track days on habit. I track my weight and use a trend calculation, but only look at loss on that trend about once a month.2) I try to eat more at meals so I don't get ravenous in between them, but then I end up eating so much that I don't see any weight loss, and then I get impatient and quit.
Also, it helped me a lot at first to remember that even if I didn't eat enough at a meal, it was only 6 hours to the next one. And honestly, being hungry for 5 or 6 hours is actually not the massive, big, scary, terrible deal that snack sales people would have you believe. In fact, if you are busy enough with other things, you may barely notice it.
If you just don't care, then your discomfort with your current body shape / way of eating may just not be enough for you to bother with the effort and discipline required to stick with No-S. That's ok. Maybe later on you'll change your mind and decide this is worth it. No's will still be here.3) In my mind I know why NoS works and I know how to implement it (by being as strict as possible with the rules), but sometimes when no one is around I just eat everything I can (a closet eater I guess). My mind knows that this is bad and that I am only hurting myself, but for some reason I just don't care enough to stop. But then I get mad at myself. This cycle has been continuing for a long time. I want to lose weight so badly, but sometimes I just ignore this when I'm feeling a little extra hungry, when I'm bored, when there is something delicious in the cabinets and no one else is around. After I'm full I can rationalize forever...but for some reason when I'm in the moment the rational thoughts don't come to mind fast enough and before I know it I've eaten a TON.
Maybe you can start a HabitCal for another S "secret" and track days on habit attempting to not eat in secret.
If you have specific trigger foods that you binge on in secret, don't keep them in the house. That way you need to make a special trip in order to binge, which hopefully will be enough of a delay to give you time to think and decide if you want to choose that binge or not. Because despite your rhetoric about "thoughts not coming fast enough" you do have a choice. Probably the most liberating thing about No-S for me has been realizing that I do have a choice. I do have power over my own life and actions.
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Nicest of the Damned
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- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:26 pm
Re: Trying again, with questions!!!
Try giving the rational thoughts more time to come to mind:jld141 wrote:I want to lose weight so badly, but sometimes I just ignore this when I'm feeling a little extra hungry, when I'm bored, when there is something delicious in the cabinets and no one else is around. After I'm full I can rationalize forever...but for some reason when I'm in the moment the rational thoughts don't come to mind fast enough and before I know it I've eaten a TON.
Don't hang out in the kitchen. The only time you spend in the kitchen should be when you are preparing, eating, or cleaning up after meals. Make the kitchen a place for meals. If possible, spend time on another floor of the house than the one the kitchen is on.
Don't keep food outside the kitchen. No candy dishes in the living room or stashes of food in your office or bedroom. If you have guests who expect candy dishes, put out the candy dishes when they show up, and put them away when they leave.
Don't keep stuff in the house if you know you're likely to binge on it. If you do keep it in the house, buy the smallest package of it that you can get. More of stuff you binge on for less money is not a good deal for you.
Try NOT tracking your weight. Instead, use HabitCal to track your habits. Then, when you have the habits well established, you can start tracking your weight and modifying your habits as needed to lose weight. The goal right now is not to lose weight, it is to get some control over your eating. The weight loss can come later. This is not a quick weight-loss diet.I try to eat more at meals so I don't get ravenous in between them, but then I end up eating so much that I don't see any weight loss, and then I get impatient and quit.
For the longest time I've had similar issues. I know I could/should/want to lose weight and eat more healthily, but I couldn't bring myself to care that much to make big changes. I guess that's what drew me to NoS, it's not 'big' changes, just a structure and small changes that build up over time. How long did you try for before quitting each time? Here's my NoS 'history' if it helps:
- followed it for 6 months, compliance not great (lots of red days), lost a few pounds to start off with then just maintained
- went on holiday for a month and didn't follow it at all (and another month afterwards...)
- followed NoS for another 6/7 months, again compliance pretty crap, at least one red day per week. No weight loss.
- moved house and abandoned NoS for 2.5 months
- got back into NoS about 2 months ago, compliance is much better and I'm actually losing weight (although I've also taken up running which I think is helping)
I had a lot of the same issues - large platefuls, red days, heavy S days, so-so motivation. I'd say just stick with it, take each day as it comes and you'll slowly learn better compliance once you are ready to. It took me over a year to care enough to commit properly, although I'm glad I stuck with it most of that time anyway as it stopped me from gaining even more weight and starting from an even heavier place.
- followed it for 6 months, compliance not great (lots of red days), lost a few pounds to start off with then just maintained
- went on holiday for a month and didn't follow it at all (and another month afterwards...)
- followed NoS for another 6/7 months, again compliance pretty crap, at least one red day per week. No weight loss.
- moved house and abandoned NoS for 2.5 months
- got back into NoS about 2 months ago, compliance is much better and I'm actually losing weight (although I've also taken up running which I think is helping)
I had a lot of the same issues - large platefuls, red days, heavy S days, so-so motivation. I'd say just stick with it, take each day as it comes and you'll slowly learn better compliance once you are ready to. It took me over a year to care enough to commit properly, although I'm glad I stuck with it most of that time anyway as it stopped me from gaining even more weight and starting from an even heavier place.
All your obstacles are classic. I'd bet 99% of long term loser/maintainers faced the same issues at one time. I know many of us have.
Realize that any disgust or promises you make to yourself after you've overeaten are likely worthless. They are just part of the pattern now and probably actually reinforce the pattern, making it MORE likely you'll overeat again. You've done your penance, so you can go and sin again.
The obstacles will likely not go away on their own. They reduce in power by saying NO when it's hard. "for some reason when I'm in the moment the rational thoughts don't come to mind fast enough and before I know it I've eaten a TON"? I'm sorry to be blunt, but the incidences of people actually not knowing they are eating are rare. The problem is you have rarely practiced just not going through with the urge and facing the situation when you don't. You haven't tolerated the feelings of irritation, anxiety, or frustration, but that's all they are. Vow to become familiar with them and even make them your friends, just as true hunger will be.
There is only one rational thought you need on S days: if it's not mealtime, I don't eat. Other thoughts to eat are just babble. Pretend they come from another planet, and just keep repeating back to them: it's not mealtime. I don't eat between meals.
If that doesn't work, thwarting the WTH effect is KEY. Perhaps set up two habitcals: one on which you give yourself a red for ANY N day fail, and one on which you give yourself a yellow for small fails, but red for WTH eating.
Your rational mind (in your prefrontal cortex, where decision making is done) wants you to stop, but the urges come from deeper in your brain, where emotions or urges rule. That part can actually get your brain to think thoughts that will get you to perform the behavior it craves. You can use your rational mind in limited quantities (but you can even think yourself higher limits!) to overcome the irrational urges. But you have to DO it and take action.
Only you can bring the food to your mouth and only you can NOT bring the food to your mouth. That is the bottom line.
Also, know that if you give in, you make the cycle stronger. Wait the urges out past their high point. That is where the greatest power comes from.
It's absolutely worth the effort and you can do more than you think.
Realize that any disgust or promises you make to yourself after you've overeaten are likely worthless. They are just part of the pattern now and probably actually reinforce the pattern, making it MORE likely you'll overeat again. You've done your penance, so you can go and sin again.
The obstacles will likely not go away on their own. They reduce in power by saying NO when it's hard. "for some reason when I'm in the moment the rational thoughts don't come to mind fast enough and before I know it I've eaten a TON"? I'm sorry to be blunt, but the incidences of people actually not knowing they are eating are rare. The problem is you have rarely practiced just not going through with the urge and facing the situation when you don't. You haven't tolerated the feelings of irritation, anxiety, or frustration, but that's all they are. Vow to become familiar with them and even make them your friends, just as true hunger will be.
There is only one rational thought you need on S days: if it's not mealtime, I don't eat. Other thoughts to eat are just babble. Pretend they come from another planet, and just keep repeating back to them: it's not mealtime. I don't eat between meals.
If that doesn't work, thwarting the WTH effect is KEY. Perhaps set up two habitcals: one on which you give yourself a red for ANY N day fail, and one on which you give yourself a yellow for small fails, but red for WTH eating.
Your rational mind (in your prefrontal cortex, where decision making is done) wants you to stop, but the urges come from deeper in your brain, where emotions or urges rule. That part can actually get your brain to think thoughts that will get you to perform the behavior it craves. You can use your rational mind in limited quantities (but you can even think yourself higher limits!) to overcome the irrational urges. But you have to DO it and take action.
Only you can bring the food to your mouth and only you can NOT bring the food to your mouth. That is the bottom line.
Also, know that if you give in, you make the cycle stronger. Wait the urges out past their high point. That is where the greatest power comes from.
It's absolutely worth the effort and you can do more than you think.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Hi, jld-
What oolala said above is just excellent. I second all of that, and just add the advice to try to get a really big plate to start out, and eat heavy, whole types food. Like chili over boiled potatoes. Avoid puffy things like bread and chips. Get the most weight out of your plate and you might find you are less hungry between meals.
Also don't worry about your body weight until you get your habits down for a few months. Even if you gain weight initiatlly, you will be setting yourself up to win by forming habits.
Also, if at all possible, keep sweets and snacky foods out of the house. Just don't buy them. That inconvenience of getting junk helps me so much.
I wish you the best.
What oolala said above is just excellent. I second all of that, and just add the advice to try to get a really big plate to start out, and eat heavy, whole types food. Like chili over boiled potatoes. Avoid puffy things like bread and chips. Get the most weight out of your plate and you might find you are less hungry between meals.
Also don't worry about your body weight until you get your habits down for a few months. Even if you gain weight initiatlly, you will be setting yourself up to win by forming habits.
Also, if at all possible, keep sweets and snacky foods out of the house. Just don't buy them. That inconvenience of getting junk helps me so much.
I wish you the best.
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".