Hi, I'm new to the board - just bought the No S book and really want to make these changes to the way I eat. I'm not massively overweight, but a bit overweight and know that I overeat - snacking, and sweets, and seconds.
Anyhow, the No S diet book advice on eating patterns when working complex shift patterns and/or nights is to get a different job! That doesn't seem like much of a solution to me, as I love my job. I'm a midwife and I work long shifts (12.5 hours) in a hospital, sometimes at weekends, sometimes days (0745 - 2015), sometimes nights (1945 - 0815). Shift patterns are designed to cover the service. Sometimes on day shifts I won't have time to take a proper lunch break. It's not clear to me whether it should be 'allowed' to eat at night (i.e. substituting a day time meal - when I would be sleeping- and having it in the night instead).
Surely it must be possible to come up with some sort of 'rules' that work with this, short of telling people to ditch their (satisfying, socially useful) jobs?
Shift work and night work
Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating
I think you might take longer to figure out your routine, but I agree that it should be possible. I've had some weird days at work at which without intending it, I ended up splitting the eating of lunch into two shifts. Given that the 3-meal structure works fine for me, I wouldn't continue with the split-lunch, but if I were in your situation, I might do something like that. I would pack my "lunch" as a one-plate affair, but I would split up the eating of it so that I would have smaller amounts at a time, and hope that I'd have at least enough time to savor the few bites.
BTW, that is also how I came to eat less. I used to make my lunch quite big as I included in it the afternoon snack I used to have. I couldn't always get it all chewed at lunch and allowed myself to finish later if I wanted. Time went on, I finished less often, and served myself less to start more often.
Even more foundational, in my mind, to the 3-meal structure, is the sense of having a systematic way to eat smaller amounts without guilt or worry.
Though the French eat three meals, at least one of the meals is often served in courses anyway, so they aren't looking at all the food at once. However, each course is actually akin to what a serving would be for us on a big plate. Just think of having a two-course meal on those long-shift days.
BTW, that is also how I came to eat less. I used to make my lunch quite big as I included in it the afternoon snack I used to have. I couldn't always get it all chewed at lunch and allowed myself to finish later if I wanted. Time went on, I finished less often, and served myself less to start more often.
Even more foundational, in my mind, to the 3-meal structure, is the sense of having a systematic way to eat smaller amounts without guilt or worry.
Though the French eat three meals, at least one of the meals is often served in courses anyway, so they aren't looking at all the food at once. However, each course is actually akin to what a serving would be for us on a big plate. Just think of having a two-course meal on those long-shift days.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Hi Morris,
I too work shifts including nightshifts on a CCU and find myself in a similar situation. Currently I work most of my nights at the weekend so those shifts aren't the problem, although I try to avoid eating much from the communal biscuit / chocolate stash as that tends to trigger bingeing or mindless eating behaviour which I want to avoid even at weekends.
I often fail on midweek night shifts so im still in the process of working it out myself, although my best successes have come from making small mods such as allowing myself big milky, sugary lattes / hot chocolates as often as I want through the night, or having an early breakfast during the shift (say weetabix after my break) at 0330 ish, as them I'm happy to miss breakfast when I get home.
Regarding missing breaks, I'm fortunate to work on a unit which does not support this, though I've worked plenty if wards where you are seen as a shirker if you take a full break. My response to this is to make your packed lunch so nice that you WON'T let yourself miss it, even if you just take 10 mins to pee and eat!
Good luck, you will probably just have to experiment a bit!
I too work shifts including nightshifts on a CCU and find myself in a similar situation. Currently I work most of my nights at the weekend so those shifts aren't the problem, although I try to avoid eating much from the communal biscuit / chocolate stash as that tends to trigger bingeing or mindless eating behaviour which I want to avoid even at weekends.
I often fail on midweek night shifts so im still in the process of working it out myself, although my best successes have come from making small mods such as allowing myself big milky, sugary lattes / hot chocolates as often as I want through the night, or having an early breakfast during the shift (say weetabix after my break) at 0330 ish, as them I'm happy to miss breakfast when I get home.
Regarding missing breaks, I'm fortunate to work on a unit which does not support this, though I've worked plenty if wards where you are seen as a shirker if you take a full break. My response to this is to make your packed lunch so nice that you WON'T let yourself miss it, even if you just take 10 mins to pee and eat!
Good luck, you will probably just have to experiment a bit!
I think it can work - it's just the matter of finding the routine and sustainable eating that works for you. You can probably fit three plates of food in at some point during a 24 hour period, there's nothing to say exactly when you should be eating!
It's about habit and moderation so a little bit of experimentation to find what works is fine. I guess it might just be a bit harder, and I imagine you will need to be quite strict with yourself so you don't start making excuses to eat snacks or more food than you planned. I like oolala's idea of packing food for a meal, and if it takes two short breaks to eat it all then fine! At least you know you planned for a plate of food.
It's about habit and moderation so a little bit of experimentation to find what works is fine. I guess it might just be a bit harder, and I imagine you will need to be quite strict with yourself so you don't start making excuses to eat snacks or more food than you planned. I like oolala's idea of packing food for a meal, and if it takes two short breaks to eat it all then fine! At least you know you planned for a plate of food.
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Blithe Morning
- Posts: 1221
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:56 pm
- Location: South Dakota
Re: Shift work and night work
The only thing I read in the book about that says "Long term, the best thing to do is try to change your circumstances and get yourself on a less crazy schedule." (p 59)Morris wrote:Anyhow, the No S diet book advice on eating patterns when working complex shift patterns and/or nights is to get a different job!
The danger with shift work is the constant grazing because you are tired. The spirit of No S is that you eat the equivalent of a plateful three (or perhaps four ) times during your waking hours. If you have an opportunity to have a social meal, then use that opportunity to organize the spacing of your meals. Use the beverage mod to tide yourself over till the next meal time.
By the way, I have been enjoying the BBC series Call the Midwife. I'm looking forward to the next season.
Re: Shift work and night work
"If you have an opportunity to have a social meal, then use that opportunity to organize the spacing of your meals. Use the beverage mod to tide yourself over till the next meal time."
This is a great way to think about it and what I have been doing unconsciously. The word MEAL is as important as social because there is so much social eating that is just more grazing. Ironically, I quit eating lunch with people at work because the gatherings were getting too stressful. But it is still a useful concept.
I'm looking forward to hearing how this plays out over the next few months.
This is a great way to think about it and what I have been doing unconsciously. The word MEAL is as important as social because there is so much social eating that is just more grazing. Ironically, I quit eating lunch with people at work because the gatherings were getting too stressful. But it is still a useful concept.
I'm looking forward to hearing how this plays out over the next few months.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Re: Shift work and night work
I guess that is what I was interpreting as "get a different job". Babies arrive 24/7 so we work all sorts of shift patterns to cover the nights and weekends - a crazy schedule by any estimation. I'm on annual leave this week, though it's not a true test of No-S in the sense that I've allowed myself two NWS for New Year and my birthday. My first long day at work is 7th January, and then I've decided that I'm going to take my lunch in - a plateful in a tupperware - but allow myself to have it in two meals if that suits the work pace better. I'll have my breakfast early - a big bowl of porridge to keep me going I think - around 0615, and a late supper with my husband when I get home - about 2045.Blithe Morning wrote:The only thing I read in the book about that says "Long term, the best thing to do is try to change your circumstances and get yourself on a less crazy schedule." (p 59)Morris wrote:Anyhow, the No S diet book advice on eating patterns when working complex shift patterns and/or nights is to get a different job!
Then I've got a bunch of days off - easy pattern. Breakfast at 0730, Lunch at 1300, Dinner at 1830.
Then followed by two night shifts at the weekend (January 11th and 12th). Still not quite sure what I'm going to do on the night shifts. It would take an iron will not to eat at all on a night shift, and I'm not sure it's safe either (if you're looking after people and you've not eaten for more than ten hours straight - it's like working while fasting, even though it's at night). It is probably better to have a packed a meal and planned for it (even if I don't get to choose when I eat it) rather than indulge in snacks - perhaps I can plan a 'breakfast' for whatever time in the morning I manage to get a break, whether that is 0230 or 0400? Then when I get home I like to have a big breakfast (second breakfast) at around 0900 so that I can sleep through lunch, waking up at around 1500. Then an evening meal at 1830 with the family, just like on a day off?
Edited to add: I'm enjoying Call the Midwife a lot too. It's very different now, in both good and bad ways. Thanks for all the interest from everyone. First thing to report is that I actually took a raisin out of my mouth in order not to even slightly break a rule today (it had fallen off a teacake I was preparing for my youngest, age 7 - into my mouth unconsciously, oops - out of my mouth very deliberately. I hope I can keep this up.
Well done with the teacake incident! One raisin can so easily turn into one bite, then one whole teacake!
I have to report another fail on last nights shift, with a handful of doritos eaten when I was stressed (so silly as of course it didn't help!) Fortunately I have managed to resist the WTH effect and stopped at that one mistake.
Hope your upcoming shifts are successful, there definitely must be a way of incorporating the no S framework into nursing shift structures, and it is so much better for the patents if we nurses / midwives are properly fed and rested (hungry & tired = grumpy & mistakes).
I have to report another fail on last nights shift, with a handful of doritos eaten when I was stressed (so silly as of course it didn't help!) Fortunately I have managed to resist the WTH effect and stopped at that one mistake.
Hope your upcoming shifts are successful, there definitely must be a way of incorporating the no S framework into nursing shift structures, and it is so much better for the patents if we nurses / midwives are properly fed and rested (hungry & tired = grumpy & mistakes).
So, provided no snacks tonight, I have just about kept to No S on day one. No sweets, hurrah! No snacks (and even spat out a raisin that had fallen off my son's teacake and ended up in my mouth by accident), hurrah! And (perhaps) technically No Seconds.
I made Thai fish soup this evening, and it was delicious and our soup bowls are a bit on the small side. I hope I stayed within the letter of the law by having some of the delicious aromatic broth as a beverage in a cup instead of actual seconds in my bowl.....arghhh, I think this probably is cheating - not a good way to start. On the other hand, I might chalk it up as a successful day (provided no snacks tonight) just to get a success under my belt.
Breakfast was 2 x poached eggs on toast
Lunch was roast beef gratin leftovers from previous night's dinner. Very tempted to have something after this, but resisted and had a big glass of water instead.
Dinner was the Thai fish soup - quite light but very delicious.
I made Thai fish soup this evening, and it was delicious and our soup bowls are a bit on the small side. I hope I stayed within the letter of the law by having some of the delicious aromatic broth as a beverage in a cup instead of actual seconds in my bowl.....arghhh, I think this probably is cheating - not a good way to start. On the other hand, I might chalk it up as a successful day (provided no snacks tonight) just to get a success under my belt.
Breakfast was 2 x poached eggs on toast
Lunch was roast beef gratin leftovers from previous night's dinner. Very tempted to have something after this, but resisted and had a big glass of water instead.
Dinner was the Thai fish soup - quite light but very delicious.
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Blithe Morning
- Posts: 1221
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:56 pm
- Location: South Dakota
A mini-meal on the night shift is within the parameters of No S. I agree that having a packed meal will change the context cues from snacking to eating. You may have to experiment a little with this but don't give up. You will eventually find something that keeps you nourished and sated without constantly eating.
I would not worry about having a cup of broth in addition to your bowl of soup. I've sometimes had an extra cup of broth after dinner instead of tea or coffee or if I'm reallly really hungry while I prepare dinner, I have a clear broth to sip from a cup while I work. But these are always very light broths. (Certain kinds of Japanese teas are flavored with soy sauce, so I figure broth is okay.) Or just use a bigger soup bowl for your first few months.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Your meals sound tasty, but if what you wrote was all you ate -- not enough food, unless you really don't require much food.
I'm a nurse, too, (retired now) but haven't worked nights for years. I really admire the people who work nights. I was always a mess -- didn't know what or when to eat or sleep. Actually, after going back to days after a stretch of nights, a doctor told me I wasn't bitchy when I worked days! I couldn't argue. I didn't feel bitchy when I worked days.
I'm a nurse, too, (retired now) but haven't worked nights for years. I really admire the people who work nights. I was always a mess -- didn't know what or when to eat or sleep. Actually, after going back to days after a stretch of nights, a doctor told me I wasn't bitchy when I worked days! I couldn't argue. I didn't feel bitchy when I worked days.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
I did feel a bit peckish in the evening, and had a cup of cocoa before bed (not too sweet). Overall, I don't think it seemed too little though - the fish soup had loads of mussels, prawns, squid and red snapper as well as broth. If I had bigger bowls, I might have added soem noodles to that.
Today I've had porridge with banana in the morning (with a bit of maple syrup, not sure if that turns it into a sweet).
For lunch I've had a big dollop of humous, a wedge of camembert, three slices of bread, cherry tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots.
This evening I plan swede and potato pasties with pak choy and some other sort of veg.
My firstborn offered me a chocolate biscuit today with my cup of tea (thanks firstborn!) but I turned it down. Go me!
Today I've had porridge with banana in the morning (with a bit of maple syrup, not sure if that turns it into a sweet).
For lunch I've had a big dollop of humous, a wedge of camembert, three slices of bread, cherry tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots.
This evening I plan swede and potato pasties with pak choy and some other sort of veg.
My firstborn offered me a chocolate biscuit today with my cup of tea (thanks firstborn!) but I turned it down. Go me!
Good job turning down the cookie, Morris. Moms get caught up with thinking they have to eat for all kinds of reasons, but they don't need to. I guarantee you a lot of naturally thin moms aren't pressured by such things because they just don't enjoy eating like that. And they don't feel bad about turning down the food because the emotional aspects of food are so much less important to them.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Generally speaking a "sweet" is something that you would consider dessert. However, some folks omit things like syrup on N days; others don't. It's completely up to you as long as you don't use copious amounts of syrup. If you use more than a few teaspoons, it becomes a sweet.Morris wrote: Today I've had porridge with banana in the morning (with a bit of maple syrup, not sure if that turns it into a sweet).
Too bad you live so far away. I have some noodle bowls that I'm going to give away. They're just too big for me.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
If you add sweetening to one meal item which would be analogous to what a person would add to a cup of coffee, you're fine.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Another success day yesterday - pasty with some chinese greens and mushrooms in the evening - no seconds and no snacking after. Hurrah!
Today is my fortieth birthday, so a special day. I got sent some new pants in the post this morning, and included in the box were some chocolate coins. As I opened my post in bed, I had a moment of feeling 'naughty' at the thought of having a chocolate coin before breakfast - then I remembered it was an S day and had one without guilt.
Today is my fortieth birthday, so a special day. I got sent some new pants in the post this morning, and included in the box were some chocolate coins. As I opened my post in bed, I had a moment of feeling 'naughty' at the thought of having a chocolate coin before breakfast - then I remembered it was an S day and had one without guilt.
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Blithe Morning
- Posts: 1221
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:56 pm
- Location: South Dakota
What company sends chocolate coins with new pants? Are they trying to sell the next size up? 
Yay for S days and chocolate coins.
Yay for S days and chocolate coins.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
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JustForToday
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:10 pm
- Location: Maryland, USA
This one http://www.whomadeyourpants.co.uk/
They also put the company name on the address label on the outside of the box, which was a bit embarrassing for my husband as the postman had to ring the door bell as parcel didn't fit the letter box. Only three small chocolate coins (unasked for, but they were yummy) - I'll give a full account of my birthday weekend indulgences tomorrow. Night all.
They also put the company name on the address label on the outside of the box, which was a bit embarrassing for my husband as the postman had to ring the door bell as parcel didn't fit the letter box. Only three small chocolate coins (unasked for, but they were yummy) - I'll give a full account of my birthday weekend indulgences tomorrow. Night all.
So, today I had
Breakfast: Cereal - sultana bran - with milk
Lunch: Leftover leek flan with salad (which I got to eat at 4pm courtesy of a crazy shift)
Dinner: Tagliatelle with mushroom and salad.
No snacks, no sweets and no seconds. And it was a long day at work (12.5 hour shift) surrounded by chocolates and other treats. My dinner of tagliatelle was not quite big enough following a crazy shift, and I've had to have an appetite suppressing cup of tea this evening after dinner (I don't usually have tea at this time). I'll be looking forward to a big breakfast.
Breakfast: Cereal - sultana bran - with milk
Lunch: Leftover leek flan with salad (which I got to eat at 4pm courtesy of a crazy shift)
Dinner: Tagliatelle with mushroom and salad.
No snacks, no sweets and no seconds. And it was a long day at work (12.5 hour shift) surrounded by chocolates and other treats. My dinner of tagliatelle was not quite big enough following a crazy shift, and I've had to have an appetite suppressing cup of tea this evening after dinner (I don't usually have tea at this time). I'll be looking forward to a big breakfast.
Remember that the French, who eat three meals and who eat smaller portions, still typically have one meal that will include soup, a meat, a vegetable, a salad, bread, cheese, and fruit. There might also be a starch.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
So today was another success. (Day's not over, but I will allow myself a hot milky drink if I'm desperate later - or just get an early night).
Breakfast - porridge
Lunch - salad with pickled herring, poached egg, cucumber, tomato, greens, and some bread with butter
Dinner - root vegetable bake with bread and cheese and an orange.
I'm not sure if I'm really feeling hungry more, or if it's just getting accustomed to not feeling full all the time, or if it's just an adjustment to eating less that I need to make.
Breakfast - porridge
Lunch - salad with pickled herring, poached egg, cucumber, tomato, greens, and some bread with butter
Dinner - root vegetable bake with bread and cheese and an orange.
I'm not sure if I'm really feeling hungry more, or if it's just getting accustomed to not feeling full all the time, or if it's just an adjustment to eating less that I need to make.
You mean the habit building? Yes, it is pleasant.
This morning, at 4am, I picked up a haribo sweet, had a little internal debate about whether it was really the 'next day' yet, decided to keep the fence around the law and....didn't eat it. Go me! Night shifts are hard, especially when you are feeling grim at 4am. But I kept on habit and I'm really proud of myself.
This morning, at 4am, I picked up a haribo sweet, had a little internal debate about whether it was really the 'next day' yet, decided to keep the fence around the law and....didn't eat it. Go me! Night shifts are hard, especially when you are feeling grim at 4am. But I kept on habit and I'm really proud of myself.
You should be proud for holding out!
I meant isn't it pleasant not to feeling full all the time.
I meant isn't it pleasant not to feeling full all the time.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
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heatherhikes
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm
- Location: uetliberg
YOU ARE AMAZING. More power to yaMorris wrote: Night shifts are hard, especially when you are feeling grim at 4am. But I kept on habit and I'm really proud of myself.
Even if/when things get hard, never give up...after 40 years of dieting I found the NoS way of eating to be the jewel I've been looking for.
I know what you're up against. I used to be on rotating shifts i.t. military - 2 days, 2 eves, 2 mids. I wish I knew about NoS then.
____________
H.