Facing our Unrealistic Expectations can be helpful.

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BrightAngel
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Facing our Unrealistic Expectations can be helpful.

Post by BrightAngel » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:04 pm

Image Diets DO work ... but only when consistently followed forever ...
To be successful, we need to overcome our unrealistic expectations.
See this excellent article which contains many informative links.

http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=788

For those of us who are, or have been, well inside the obesity BMI range,
there is no doubt that Maintenance ... as-well-as-weight-loss ...
takes an incredible amount of continuous, ongoing difficult work. ..
despite the choice of the weight-loss diet or the maintenance diet.
...even when working to follow the No S Diet guidelines....
I know this from my own personal experience
as I have now maintained a large weight-loss for the past 7 years.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

MJ7910
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Post by MJ7910 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:10 pm

I have maintained within 10 lb for a year but during that year I have had a lot of out of control binging which i think was brought on by calorie counting and the nervousness of being over calories for the day. the feeling that i couldn't enjoy something because it didn't fit in my calories or macros... it actually made me behave worse! if i would have just stuck to moderation i know i wouldn't have been yoyoing those 10lbs... there were literally weeks i'd gain 2 lbs because of my excesses...
so my goal with NoS is to give it a fair try this time. I started to panic last time because I wasn't counting calories. If I would have just stuck with it despite some wild S days I bet I woudl have done better. I only hung with NoS for maybe a few months before I gave up! Looking back on my habitcalc, I only made it through June and July 2012! I reached my heaviest weight in Sept 2012. Had a hung with NoS a while I wonder where i would be!

So diets definitely can work if you stick with it. Also, I hate thinking of it as a diet. Would love to come up with a name that doesn't include the name diet... maybe system of moderate eating... :) i only eat at meals... something like that.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

heatherhikes
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Re: Facing our Unrealistic Expectations can be helpful.

Post by heatherhikes » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:27 pm

BrightAngel wrote: For those of us who are, or have been, well inside the obesity BMI range,
there is no doubt that Maintenance ... as-well-as-weight-loss ...
takes an incredible amount of continuous, ongoing difficult work. ..
despite the choice of the weight-loss diet or the maintenance diet.
...even when working to follow the No S Diet guidelines....
I know this from my own personal experience
BrightAngel, I know this is not true for everyone, especially not for most NoS-ers that would apply to (BMI range)...reading the many testimonies and board archives. Also, I presume you aren't NoS-ing pure vanilla style.
I could imagine that your post sounds negative and hopeless to newcomers. They may give up before starting...
___________
H.

noni
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Post by noni » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:56 pm

The fellowhip and encouragement on this board helps to make it less hard.

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Re: Facing our Unrealistic Expectations can be helpful.

Post by BrightAngel » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:23 pm

heddi55 wrote:
BrightAngel wrote:For those of us who are, or have been, well inside the obesity BMI range,
there is no doubt that Maintenance ... as-well-as-weight-loss ...
takes an incredible amount of continuous, ongoing difficult work. ..
despite the choice of the weight-loss diet or the maintenance diet.
...even when working to follow the No S Diet guidelines....
I know this from my own personal experience

http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=788
BrightAngel, I know this is not true for everyone,
especially not for most NoS-ers that would apply to (BMI range)
...reading the many testimonies and board archives.
Also, I presume you aren't NoS-ing pure vanilla style.
I could imagine that your post sounds negative and hopeless to newcomers.
They may give up before starting...
This holds true for every long-term No S member that I've seen on this board.
I have been posting here on the No S forum for almost 5 years now,
and during that time I have read almost every post here on the General Discussion thread,
and ... of course... also all of the testimonies.

People looking for a magic fix, for results without effort, don't appear to succeed in No S
any better than they do on any other Diet.
I've run the BMI numbers on the No S people who share their height/weight data while claiming success,
and base my opinion partly on what I've seen,
partly on the continued presence and/or eventual absence of members,
and partly on my overall knowledge of the subject.
My own body's personal BMI high was 52.9. My current BMI is 24.4.

Success requires facing the Truth as it is, not as one would wish it to be.
Reinhard has written a terrific book, and has created a very helpful eating plan,
but implementing it in a way to achieve weight-loss or maintenance takes work,
Far LESS work for people who have not had a high BMI of OVER around 35.
Far MORE work for people who have had a high BMI above that range.

You'll see that too, if you run their BMI numbers using online calculators.

Actually, Vanilla No S, is eating exactly the way that Reinhard ate,
and even "vanilla No S" requires some modifications to adjust for size, age, activity, and sex.
Shorter, older, sedentary females can't eat the same 1 plate contents that taller, younger, active females can eat,
let alone the same 1 plate contents that a tall, young, active male ...
such as Reinhard... can eat.

Some No S members modifiy Vanilla No S by cutting down on fried food,
by eating less processed foods, by eating more vegetables and fruits.
Some use other tactics, and add other behavioral modifications,
such as reducing the number of their meals, or counting calories,
or watching fats or watching carbs.

Over time, weekend Bingeing stops for some people, and not for others.
This seems related both to age and to the length of time that one has spent in extreme obesity.
Also, perhaps, even to the types of food that are eaten during "N" days.
Only Habits that result in a person eating the same as, or less than, their own personal energy burn
will help to cause weight-loss and maintenance.


This has been consistently proven on these boards again and again,
and also everywhere else here in the World.
A big part of the Marketing Mess that dieting has become
involves DENIAL of the truth, and promises of quick fixes.
People who are well into their obesity range struggle to lose weight,
only to regain all of it but 5% or 10% within a few years.
Hope based on Fantasy is not a helpful long-term maintenance tactic.

http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=788

Much Truth can be discovered by reading the linked article posted above,
especially for those who also read the referenced links within that article.
I challenge anyone who has lost over 100 lbs, and kept it off for 7 years
to tell me that their maintenance and weight-loss has not required
a great deal of ongoing effort.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:52 pm

BA, you know, I am by nature an overly analytical and a detail oriented person. And, this has been part to my downfall regarding diets many times and helped making diethead bigger over the years....
I'll see to it that I won't do that again with NoS and think as little as I can about the food, especially dieting. The more I let loose mentally, even emotionally (within the NoS' parameters), the easier my green days are coming...
Until recently I kept a diary and daily food log, and since I merely check off my 2-3 meals at a simple sheet at the refrig. door...I'm doing much better; have lost over 3 pounds in 10 days. :P
I know that NoS can and does work, weight loss and maintenance phases, eventually even without much effort; maybe not for everyone but for many people, incl. high BMIs.
From my own experience I can tell that it gets easier and easier staying compliant over time, and I have a lot of weight to lose. It only can get better, NoS is becoming automatic in my eating, that would include maintenance...I don't need statistics for that to know. But, if I'd add on other things, whereby my mind would even *smell the faintest of diet odors,* then NoS-moderation and its established habits wouldn't work any more. This doesn't include carefully placed mods, but includes calorie-counting, for me at least.
What also helps me very much is my value system (what's important to me/us in life beyond eating/food preparation..), faith in healing diethead, and prayers. :wink:
All the very best to you.
__________
Love and peace
H.

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Post by BrightAngel » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:11 pm

heddi55 wrote:BA, you know, I am by nature an overly analytical and a detail oriented person.

Until recently I kept a diary and daily food log,
and since I merely check off my 2-3 meals at a simple sheet at the refrig. door...
I'm doing much better; have lost over 3 pounds in 10 days.

I know that NoS can and does work, weight loss and maintenance phases,
eventually even without much effort;
maybe not for everyone but for many people, incl. high BMIs.

What also helps me very much is ...faith in healing diethead.
Heddi, Good luck with your recent weight-loss.
I wish you the best, and hope for your future success.

I am also a very analytical and detail oriented person,
but I see this as a very good thing.

There's another way to look at it, and I have learned to embrace
what you negatively call "diethead".
I've achieved a great deal of weight-loss and maintenance success
by choosing to accept the realities of my own body's limitations,
and by choosing to learn to view the necessity of dieting as an enjoyable hobby.

If you are interested in learning more about me,
or in the way I choose to deal with such issues,
you can learn a great deal about me via my own website, DietHobby.

Faith is also something I value, and I show my own faith through my positive actions,
as is set forth in the following scripture: "Faith without works is dead."
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:13 pm

BA, thank you for answering me so quickly.
Can we agree to disagree on some matters here? :wink:
Although, I'd like to ask you - and I'm really just curious:
In what ways do you agree with NoS and, are you practicing the program at this point? Has NoS helped you so far? Hope these inquiaries don't seem too probing.
Wishing you blessed days ahead.
_________
H

MJ7910
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Post by MJ7910 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:43 pm

I like what both of you have to say and i wanted to add from my own experience. i was definitely suffering from "diethead" for about a year. I was on a calorie counting website "happily" or what i thought was happily (i was deluding myself) counting calories and I did in fact lose weight. But the problem was I had black and white thinking about it. My breakfast was always the same thing. My lunch pretty much the same, dinner was the only thing a little different. diethead really messed with me.... i was always thinking about how many calories were in everything, i could not enjoy a thing without it giving me anxiety... and ironically, leading to horrible binges. i was eating when i wasn't hungry because i felt "deprived".
i tried no s back in June 2012 and i failed at it. i only gave it about 1.5 months and then decided it "wasn't working" because i felt insecure not being able to track and count calories - in other words i was addicted to something that was actually making me miserable.
a few friends of mine were doing calorie counting too and that made it worse. they were always telling me what exercises they were doing, how much it burned on their heart rate monitor, what restaurant choices were the best (lowest calories) etc. they couldnt' even go to a place (nor could i) unless we looked at the menu online, decided what was the lowest calories and got that... no way to live!
i'm not saying one should go into a restaurant and order the most fatty, high calorie thing they can find, but it is awful to live life not getting what you want because it's not the lowest calorie item. i only go to restaurants on sdays now (at least that's the plan) but if i did go to one on an Nday i would try and be reasonable. the great thing is now if i want something that's 700 calories opposed to 400 i can get it! as long as it's a reasonable meal. diethead screwed me up so badly i couldnt' even figure out what i wanted to eat some days. i was so used to these diet meals i didn't even know what i wanted! just realizing that in my second week coming back to this...
so if calorie counting doesn't drive you absolutely insane (like it does for me over time) then i think you could do it with no adverse effects. for me it completely warps my mind into not knowing what i want to eat and i don't like living like that.
some background, i used to have an eating disorder years ago and i did track calories then too. felt like i was living in a prison then too.
so now i kind of know what the approximate calories might be in something, but not writing it down gives me that freedom of feeling like this was my own choice.
it is different for everyone and if it can work with you along with NoS then go with it. but for me, no way. i like the freedom of NoS and even if i see a slight weight gain initially (i am setting it up to expect I'll be gaining weight and freaking out in about a month actually because diet mentality is hard to overcome and it was a warning on here about diet rebound effect when you start to eat like a normal person again), maybe it will help me get past diet head once and for all and eat moderately.
Last edited by MJ7910 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

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Post by BrightAngel » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:45 pm

heddi55 wrote:BA, thank you for answering me so quickly.
Can we agree to disagree on some matters here? :wink:
Although, I'd like to ask you - and I'm really just curious:
In what ways do you agree with NoS and, are you practicing the program at this point?
Has NoS helped you so far? Hope these inquiaries don't seem too probing.
My 5 year relationship with No S has gone through many different stages.
You can access that information here on No S as over the years
there have been numerous posts here in the General Discussion Thread about that subject,
and there are also many posts within my personal Thread in the Daily Check-in area.


You can find my review of the No S Diet,
together with comments of other No S members,
here:
http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=55
Unfortunately, due to a technical glitch caused by the Hacking of my website last May,
the posting headers on many of those past comments are incorrect,
however, most of the names of the commentors are shown within the body of my replies to the comments themselves.


You can also find many references to No S in many of the articles in Archives area of my DietHobby website.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Minkymoo
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Post by Minkymoo » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:29 pm

I like the title of this post, I find that I often fall victim to unrealistic expectations... about how much weight I can loose and how fast, how much I can fit on my plate, how much I need to feel full etc!

The linked article and didn't resonate with me so much and I did find it rather negative. Whilst I am prepared to put the work in to loose weight, I don't want to be fighting a battle with my weight or with food. I want to enjoy it! TBH if that is what it will take for me to reach and stay within my ideal BMI then I may leave that goal. But I want to find that out for myself.

My belief about No S is that it will slowly and consistently realign my expectations with reality. So I will truly accept that I don't need all that much food and never will, and if I eat as much as I want I will gain weight. And that there is no avoiding that fact or confounding it with magic pill type diets!

I hope the slow and gradual nature of No S means that I can come to that acceptance in time, by myself and I hope that by then, it won't feel like a hardship at all.

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Post by BrightAngel » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:00 pm

Minkymoo wrote:My belief about No S is that it will slowly and consistently realign my expectations with reality.
Minkymoo, that is a lovely belief, and I hope that it comes true for you.

I believe that to succeed at both weight-loss and long-term-maintenance of that loss,
it is important to accept the fact that losing and maintaining weight is going to be hard.
Obviously it is not impossible, but we need to be realistic about the lifetime effort that is involved.
In order to make this possible, somehow that required effort needs to become enjoyable.
Whether that Truth is to be viewed as Negative or Positive is a matter of personal choice.

BYW, the numbers of Reinhard, himself, fall within the premise of my above-stated position,
as even his own BMI, was never “well-inside-the-obesity-rangeâ€.

In his book, “The No S Diet†Reinhard says that when he began the diet
he was “borderline obeseâ€.
He says that he went from 210 down to 170, a loss of 40 lbs.
Reinhard appears to be about 6 ft tall, therefore:
his BMI at 210 was about 28.5 (30 is the borderline between overweight and obesity);
and his BMI at 170 was about 23.1. (25 is the borderline between normal and overweight).

I would greatly welcome the input here of any long-term posters here who began No S with a personal BMI above 35,
and who now have,…and have maintained for at least 3 years, … a BMI of around 25 or less.
regarding how much Effort that achieving this, has been personally required of them.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:32 pm

BrightAngel wrote:
heddi55 wrote:BA, thank you for answering me so quickly.
Can we agree to disagree on some matters here? :wink:
Although, I'd like to ask you - and I'm really just curious:
In what ways do you agree with NoS and, are you practicing the program at this point?
Has NoS helped you so far? Hope these inquiaries don't seem too probing.
My 5 year relationship with No S has gone through many different stages.
You can access that information here on No S as over the years
there have been numerous posts here in the General Discussion Thread about that subject,
and there are also many posts within my personal Thread in the Daily Check-in area.

You can find my review of the No S Diet,
together with comments of other No S members,
here:
http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=55
Unfortunately, due to a technical glitch caused by the Hacking of my website last May,
the posting headers on many of those past comments are incorrect,
however, most of the names of the commentors are shown within the body of my replies to the comments themselves.


You can also find many references to No S in many of the articles in Archives area of my DietHobby website.
BA, it would be super-nice of you to answer the above questions in just a few straight forward sentences, for us all. It can be quite time-consuming to read through all of your "numerous posts," as you said, or go to your website. This is about NOS.
A great week to all of us. :D :D
__________
H

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Post by BrightAngel » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:48 pm

heddi55 wrote: This is about NOS.
Weight-loss and maintenance success require Effort
... Even in No S ...
My position is that it is helpful to understand that if we aren't willing
to make consistent ongoing Efforts, we won't succeed.
Some of us have to make more Effort than others.

The need to put forth Effort ... even to gain information ... can feel frustrating.
However, the questions can't be answered in just a sentence or two.
I've already posted the information again and again, in various areas here at No S,
as well as in an organized fashion at my own personal website.
If you're interested, make the Effort. If not, don't.
:wink:
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Dale
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Post by Dale » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:11 am

I appreciate the post, although the link to the article isn't working for me just now. I'm an older, shorter woman with health conditions and a year ago my BMI was pushing 40 (morbidly obese), and I have always been worried about maintenance!

I did start out with "vanilla" No S, but eventually started mixing it up with counting calories. The trouble is, if you have a lot to lose, you have to CONTINUE reducing what you eat all the time because your calorie requirements go down. I couldn't eat now what I ate when I started No S and still lose weight.

To keep losing weight as our calorie expenditure goes down, I think that some of us are bound to have to think about adjusting No S a little, perhaps by calorie counting, perhaps by portion control. There's some evidence that people who have been very obese and lost the weight have lower calorie requirements than people who have always been a healthy weight. I remember reading up on No S blogs, trying to find anybody who had lost the sort of weight that I want to and kept it off without modifications, and it seemed to me that people were either further controlling their portions, or not keeping up their blogs!

I am hoping that No S will work for maintenance, but it's something I'm going to have to monitor. I too would love to read more from people who had a similar starting BMI to me and who have maintained.

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Post by BrightAngel » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:20 pm

Dale wrote:I appreciate the post, although the link to the article isn't working for me just now.
I'm an older, shorter woman with health conditions and a year ago my BMI was pushing 40 (morbidly obese),
and I have always been worried about maintenance!

I too would love to read more from people who had a similar starting BMI to me
and who have maintained.
Dale, I checked the links and they are still working for me.
Perhaps it would help if you simply typed in the address of the website:
www.diethobby.com
You'll see that post on page 1 or page 2 under HOME.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

TexArk
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Post by TexArk » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:24 pm

Bright Angel said, "I would greatly welcome the input here of any long-term posters here who began No S with a personal BMI above 35,
and who now have,…and have maintained for at least 3 years, … a BMI of around 25 or less. regarding how much Effort that achieving this, has been personally required of them."


I, too, would like to hear from the formerly obese who have lost and maintained for at least 3 years regarding Effort.

I do not fit that criteria, but I do come close to the profile. I came to NoS after having lost 50 lb. and maintaining that loss for several years by continuing to count points. I had grown tired of counting and bought the Intuitive Eating Lie. I thought I could at least use IE for maintaining my weight loss. Wrong! I tried for over a year and gradually gained 30 lbs. back. I then found NoS and was absolutely perfect in following the rules on N Days. I stopped gaining, but I did not lose. Eventually I gradually started gaining again until I was back to my highest weight again with a BMI of 32. This is exactly what our body wants to do...get back to its highest weight.

So...I decided I was going to have to count the calories in my 3 plates and on my S days. I was not going to set a calorie limit. The goal was to find out how many calories I was eating, and how many calories caused me to gain, and how many calories I needed for weight loss, etc. Boy, did I get an education. I started counting calories in October 2010 and started losing again. And yes, as Dale said, when you get to a lower weight, you require even fewer calories. I learned that I could maintain on 1200 calories, but any more than that and I would gain. I lost down to a BMI of 25 by spring of 2012. Then, stupid me, I thought surely I know how to eat now without all this daily counting. The result: 10 lb. gain.

Bright Angel's example and research has changed my attitude. Counting and tracking just needs to be part of my life and I might as well make it fun. I am now close to a healthy top of the range BMI again and I will not quit counting this time. I require much fewer calories than I thought and I cannot trust the 3 plate rule to cover it. NoS has taught me many lessons and one of them is in regard to hunger. I can wait until the next meal to eat. And, it is a good thing to be hungry for my meals. A final truth I think must be embraced: "You must get over the fear of being hungry if you want to keep weight off for the rest of your life."


So, I was in the obese category (not as high as BA's challenge) and have lost close to the 25 BMI. I hope in 3 years I can say that I am still there. I know there will be effort involved to do so. But it is not the cliff hanging, nail biting kind of effort now that I have accepted it. I think that is the point Bright Angel is making.
24.7 bmi Feb. 2019
26.1 bmi Sept. 2018
31.4 bmi July 2017

vmsurbat
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Post by vmsurbat » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:57 pm

BrightAngel wrote:
I would greatly welcome the input here of any long-term posters here who began No S with a personal BMI above 35,
and who now have,…and have maintained for at least 3 years, … a BMI of around 25 or less.
regarding how much Effort that achieving this, has been personally required of them.
I was right at the 35BMI when I began my NoS Journey 4+ years ago. I've been at 25BMI or less (now less @23.5 and still going down! :)) for not quite 3 years, but I did want to answer since no one else has! For the record, I'm short (5'2"), female, over 50, and have thyroid issues, so losing weight has never come easily to me. Also, I didn't weigh myself at my heaviest and have used three scales over the years (some in kgs, some in lbs), so I've lost more than my signature indicates but I can't say for sure how much more!

First off, I want to say that I've read the literature and studies readily available online that indicate the tremendous effort needed to maintain loss and I believe that is the case for many, many people. I personally don't feel that I need to expend that much effort and have often pondered why.

Some of my thoughts:

1. Many of the people described in those studies lost weight at a much faster rate than I did, usually by greater restrictions (calories or WLS or both). I think the slower and frankly uneven pace of NoS caused less stress on my body and metabolic system, and therefore, as a whole unit, my body adjusted to my gradually changing needs. Plus, my diethead mental habits had plenty of time to change, too. (This is one area, I think, that many people neglect).

2. It is true that I eat less now than I did when I was 10 pounds lighter or even 35 pounds lighter. But I feel *just* as satisfied because *I*, not a prescribed diet plan, determined when I needed to eat less to feel good. Following NoS principles rather than a diet quickly made "feeling good", not "losing weight," , my prime objective.

3. Although I had a long history of ever-increasing weight gain (obscured by five kids in 8 years), I didn't spend years and years at the obese level (probably about 10 years). Several years prior to NoS, I lost 50-60 pounds slowly, but I never inculcated new eating habits; so when I stopped paying attention due to life's circumstances, my weight crept upward depressingly quickly.

4. What Bright Angel says about needing to be diligent *is* true....I can't stop my NoS habits and expect to maintain. But, I find my NoS habits easy to keep: they keep me satisfied and healthy, I get to eat the food I love, I can celebrate all the holidays in whatever country/people I'm with. I have no, none, zero, zip, zilch desire to depart from NoS, so I find maintenance easy at 4+ years.

Note: this is my personal journey and I understand that we each have our path to walk which may include NoS+, and not strict vanilla NoS. But, vanilla NoS has proven to be a very good flavor for me!

HTH,
Vicki in MNE
7! Yrs. with Vanilla NoS, down 55+lb, happily maintaining and still loving it!

heatherhikes
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Re: Facing our Unrealistic Expectations can be helpful.

Post by heatherhikes » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:01 pm

heddi55 wrote:
BrightAngel wrote: For those of us who are, or have been, well inside the obesity BMI range,
there is no doubt that Maintenance ... as-well-as-weight-loss ...
takes an incredible amount of continuous, ongoing difficult work. ..
despite the choice of the weight-loss diet or the maintenance diet.
...even when working to follow the No S Diet guidelines....
I know this from my own personal experience
BrightAngel, I know this is not true for everyone, especially not for most NoS-ers that would apply to (BMI range)...reading the many testimonies and board archives. Also, I presume you aren't NoS-ing pure vanilla style.
I could imagine that your post sounds negative and hopeless to newcomers. They may give up before starting...
TexArc,
you wrote, "I know there will be effort involved to do so. But it is not the cliff hanging, nail biting kind of effort now that I have accepted it."
I agree with this quote but don't agree with BA's very strong statement above.
I don't mean to be disagreeable but am convinced that most NoS-ers can look forward to a peaceful future, incl. maintenance; if we have patience with ourselves and the programm...Otherwise why NoS? We could stay with our accountability diets and distorted thoughts about eating and food issues...
___________
Love n' peace
H

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BrightAngel
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Re: Facing our Unrealistic Expectations can be helpful.

Post by BrightAngel » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:46 pm

heddi55 wrote:I am convinced that
(inserting the word I ) can look forward to a peaceful future, incl. maintenance;
if (I) have patience with (myself) and the program
We all have opinions and beliefs that are based on our own knowledge and experience,
and I sincerely hope that, in the future, your belief becomes true for you.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

MJ7910
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Post by MJ7910 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:02 pm

maybe the first step is to do NoS just the way it was written for a while... meaning months! then once you feel like "diethead" has gone away maybe you could look at portions again or maybe change stuff up. but the important thing i think is to get rid of diet mentality first before starting anything new or modifying NoS. otherwise, NoS may just feel like another one of those diets with too many modifications to follow and remember.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:26 pm

vmsurbat wrote:4. What Bright Angel says about needing to be diligent *is* true....I can't stop my NoS habits and expect to maintain. But, I find my NoS habits easy to keep: they keep me satisfied and healthy, I get to eat the food I love, I can celebrate all the holidays in whatever country/people I'm with. I have no, none, zero, zip, zilch desire to depart from NoS, so I find maintenance easy at 4+ years.
BA, thanks for the good wishes. However, I don't appreciate you changing my quote and therefore my intention.
I assume you forgot to post inhowfar you practice NoS principles at this point and what you learnt from this way of eating (summarized version if need be). I'd really be interested, since you've been here for several years. :)

Green greetings to all :P
____________
H

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:49 pm

MJ, you're so right! I've found if I practice the NoS principles and suggestions, the socalled "diethead" mentality and our distorted thought life from our dieting history disappears more and more, almost automatically. But I need to be diligent, especially in the beginning, while regular eating habits are being established.
Reinhard suggests and some other "oldtimers" here (as far as NoS is concerned :lol: ), that we should wait several months, maybe 6 months, before carefully implementing modifications.
When things get to strict/difficult, at least MY mind thinks "diet!" and will begin to strike back and I'll crash or it gets real hard keeping the eating plan together. I think/suspect that many here with a diet history have similar experiences.
NoS means weight loss and food sanity; I wish I'd found the plan 40 years earlier.
_____________
H

MJ7910
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Post by MJ7910 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:41 pm

heddi55 wrote:MJ, you're so right! I've found if I practice the NoS principles and suggestions, the socalled "diethead" mentality and our distorted thought life from our dieting history disappears more and more, almost automatically. But I need to be diligent, especially in the beginning, while regular eating habits are being established.
Reinhard suggests and some other "oldtimers" here (as far as NoS is concerned :lol: ), that we should wait several months, maybe 6 months, before carefully implementing modifications.
When things get to strict/difficult, at least MY mind thinks "diet!" and will begin to strike back and I'll crash or it gets real hard keeping the eating plan together. I think/suspect that many here with a diet history have similar experiences.
NoS means weight loss and food sanity; I wish I'd found the plan 40 years earlier.
_____________
H
me too! if i make it to strict, i inevitably crash and dont' want to do it. i was toying with the idea of modifying Sdays a bit but i'm only 2 weeks into this. i don't need to modify anything yet! i know over time it will get better. if i see i am not losing weight after a few months and i have successfuly completed the 21 day induction period i will consider at that point modifications... but i think jumping the gun is dangerous! makes all our hard work go away and we slip back into diet mentality. but i do think we have to be reasonable once we have established these habits. but only then!
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

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Post by BrightAngel » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:59 pm

heddi55 wrote:BA, I assume you forgot to post inhowfar you practice NoS principles at this point
and what you learnt from this way of eating (summarized version if need be).
I'd really be interested, since you've been here for several years. :)
Hedi 55, I haven't forgotten,
I've chosen my answer, and already given it twice on this thread.
My latest and final answer re your request was posted above on 2/11 at 4:48 p.m.
If you wish to discuss the issue of your requests further,
please do so through a private PM. Thanks.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

heatherhikes
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Post by heatherhikes » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:57 pm

BA, thank you for your two "chosen answers" above. I reviewed them once more and found them vague, referring me to your archives and website...I believe posting your challenge together with your CURRENT (NoS?) eating practices could've been quite helpful to this NoS community.
Anyway, wishing you all the best in your future endeavors :!:
______________
Lv n' peace :wink:
H

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Post by BrightAngel » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:31 pm

Image Here are the clear and specific answers which I posted above.
BrightAngel wrote: My 5 year relationship with No S has gone through many different stages.
You can access that information here on No S as over the years
there have been numerous posts here in the General Discussion Thread about that subject,
and there are also many posts within my personal Thread in the Daily Check-in area.


You can find my review of the No S Diet,
together with comments of other No S members,
here:
http://www.diethobby.com/blog.php?ax=v&nid=55

You can also find many references to No S in many of the articles
in the Archives area of my DietHobby website.
BrightAngel wrote:The need to put forth Effort ... even to gain information ... can feel frustrating.
However, the questions can't be answered in just a sentence or two.
I've already posted the information again and again, in various areas here at No S,
as well as in an organized fashion at my own personal website.
If you're interested, make the Effort. If not, don't.
:wink:
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

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