Give me your opinion

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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Dee2013
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Give me your opinion

Post by Dee2013 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:29 am

Hello,
I am a 37 year old 5'2 female weighing around 175lbs. I have yo yo dieted for many years. I have never been super successful on any diet plans and I definitely never made any plan a lifestyle. So, I am half way through another year of my life and I am still not the size/weight I have been struggling to be. At this point I am honestly more tired of worrying about dieting and weight loss than I am about the extra weight itself. According to those calculators I have a BMI of 33. I don't look terrible in my clothes (I am not talking about naked). I feel good most days if I don't eat too much sugar. If I exercise consistently and follow this eating plan would it be crazy to just aim to stay at 175lbs? On one hand it feels like I am giving up on losing weight but on the other hand it feels like I would gain a lot of mental freedom. I am just so tired of the super restrictive diets that I can't stick with. I just want to eat normal food, not have 5 hour binge sessions, and not have to think about food all day long. I know that 175 is really not an ideal weight for my height but would it be really really bad to accept it?

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:25 am

Why not follow this eating plan with a goal of staying at 175 or less or just not gaining? To me a goal of staying at 175 means you'll want to gain if you lose weight.

I agree with you that 175 isn't an ideal weight for your height, but it's better than weighing more.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Jammin' Jan
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Post by Jammin' Jan » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:25 am

I think it would be beneficial to do No-S to normalize your eating patterns. Build your good No-S habits and let your weight attend to itself.
"Self-denial's a great sweetener of pleasure."
(Patrick McGoohan's "The Prisoner")

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:02 am

I agree that using No S to just normalize eating without worrying about losing weight would be of benefit just on its own. Increasing the quality of your food over time and getting consistent moderate exercise has been shown to improve health profiles even without weight loss (from Health at Every Size, Fat Politics, and Big Fat Lies).
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:16 am

Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:09 pm

Well, I have nothing to lose by taking this approach. I agree with wosnes that setting my mind to a 175 or less goal is probably better. I don't want to be 175 lbs but right now I need mental freedom more than weight loss. If I adopt the No S habits then I guess...hope... that my weight will go down or maybe it won't go down. I certainly believe it will not go up.

I read through that "Obesity Myth" book. I am not surprised that we have been tricked a little when it comes to what a healthy size really is. My intention is to give these rules a good solid try without trying to manipulate myself into another diet. I want to just eat normally and let my body find its way to a comfortable weight without the constant back and forth between restriction and binging. I will also try to do some exercise/activity most days.

Can I really find a natural relationship with food and my body again? I had it until I hit my mid twenties. It's never been the same since :( How in the world do you accept your body the way it is when you know it should be different?

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:43 pm

Dee2013 wrote:How in the world do you accept your body the way it is when you know it should be different?
One of the definitions of acceptance implies approval, but all acceptance really means is "this is the way things are." It's acknowledgement of the conditions. It doesn't mean that you agree with or like the way things are. And it doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement or that this is where you want to be.

The Serenity Prayer always reminds me of acceptance:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:10 pm

wosnes wrote: One of the definitions of acceptance implies approval, but all acceptance really means is "this is the way things are." It's acknowledgement of the conditions.
Yes, this is the way things are. I stepped on the scale this morning and I weigh 174.8 pounds. This is the reality. At this weight I am wearing a L/XL top and a 12/14 pant, my back has a few rolls and my lower belly hangs a little, my arms jiggle, and I won't even talk about my thighs. This is the truth about my body. While I don't think it is ideal it really could be worse. If I don't change my eating habits it will be worse. So, I can't lie to myself and say I am okay with it but I can make a commitment to not let it get any worse and hope that new habits over time will finally help me to lose.

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Over43
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Post by Over43 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:32 am

Hello Dee,

Remember the immortal words of Dr. Christiaan Bernard:

We do more damage to our health worrying about what we eat than we do by what we actually eat.

Somewhere in there is a lot of wisdom. No S affords us the ability to stop worrying about what we are eating, I hope. So focus on three plates and make No S your lifestyle.
Bacon is the gateway meat. - Anthony Bourdain
You pale in comparison to Fox Mulder. - The Smoking Man

I made myself be hungry, then I would get hungrier. - Frank Zane Mr. Olympia '77, '78, '79

jellybeans01
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Post by jellybeans01 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:19 am

Well since you asked...
The facts are at that weight and your BMI you are considered obese. This puts you at risk for heart disease, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure and the list goes on. Are YOU okay with that? I am not trying to be mean, really, I am a nice person. Life does not bring many opportunities that allow us control over situations, this I know, but I know that this is one area that we can change, we are choosing each and every thing that goes into our mouth. The no s diet can help with food issues and I believe if you look over the testimonials you will find that there is success. I have had 5 kids, and the no s diet helps always get back to the 130's and I am 5'4". There are so many of us here to help and encourage you in your journey.

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:40 am

Well, jellybeans, I did ask. Yes, I am aware that my BMI puts me in the obese category. I don't like it. Not at all. But right now it is what it is. So, if I accept this weight am I accepting all the common lifestyle diseases? I have been researching the idea that it is possible to be healthy and not be thin. There are quite a few studies that show that people in the overweight or obese range can be healthy. I am not making excuses here. I certainly don't want heart disease or diabetes and I certainly don't like being 175lbs but maybe for now I have to put the pressure to get to certain weight to the side in order to find some sanity and have structure in my daily eating habits. One thing is for sure, if I keep bouncing between dieting and binging I will end up larger than I am right now.

jellybeans01
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Post by jellybeans01 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:41 pm

One of the problems with forums Dee is that the spirit in which you are communicating is easily lost. I was direct but, if you were a close person to me and we were having a heart to heart and you asked me your opinion I would kindly be honest. One of the big reason is your age. Your only 37 with so much life ahead of you. Yes, it is true that you can be obese and healthy I have two relatives who actually are. In 10 or 20 years though it can be a different story. I really believe is you were to follow no s without having crazy s days you will not stay at 175. You really need to read oolala's post. She is amazing and inspirational for woman dieters who have had to overcome eating issues.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:32 pm

Thanks, jellybeans! I did "weigh in" here already, saying that I think taking the pressure off weight loss would be good right now. I went into this not aiming at weight loss, even though I did lose around 35 lbs. I was 10 lbs. into the obese range when I started, but that had happened only in the decade before that. I was not obese or even overweight growing up, though I wasn't as thin as my peers as a teen. I didn't get into the overweight category until after my first diet at age 19 and I fluctuated between high normal weight and overweight for about 20 years. My odds of drifting down to a lower weight were quite good. Perhaps that's what kept me calm. But I like to think I would have stayed with No S anyway because it's a better way to live than being anxious over every bite, as I was for a lot of my life.

If the best health possible had to be goals for all of us, we would have to be even tougher on ourselves than No S, in my opinion. I think this is a reasonable compromise for all but those who have already developed a health condition. Odds are odds, after all. Even if there's a 40% chance someone will develop a problem, there's a 60% chance they won't. When some skinny people are scarfing down junk food a lot of the time, living sedentary lives that put them at just as much risk, possible even using really harmful drugs, but not getting societal pressure and judgement that overweight people do, I'm not going to begrudge someone who lives moderately and stays fat.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:34 pm

Jellybeans, I was not really offended by your comments. I hope you were not offended by mine. I am simply frustrated with this whole issue and I am trying to find a way to change how I have been doing things over the years. I sincerely hope that No S will help me lose weight. However, I am trying to find a way to peace with where my body is in case it doesn't help me lose weight because I don't want to go back to yo-yo dieting.

Please, always feel free to be honest when responding to any of my posts. And thank you for your honesty. Your points are definitely things I must consider.

Oolala, I was one of those skinny people who ate junk and didn't exercise. I was very thin up until age 25 and then things started to shift. I never gave quality or quantity of food a thought before I started gaining weight. Since then it has been a terrible struggle.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:03 pm

Dee, your prognosis is pretty good, then! You certainly aren't fighting against natural obesity. Let No S get you back in touch with appetite. (My biggest problem is accepting how small my appetite is.)
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

noni
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Post by noni » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:06 pm

Dee, Please give No S a try. Learning sanity eating alone is worth it!

joasia
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Post by joasia » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:25 pm

I am female, turning 36 this month, and five foot five inches. I started nos at 265 pounds, and now weigh 208 and am still going. My only real work out has been walking. And the only reason my weight loss has been so slow and taken so long is because I don't stick to nos as strictly as I should. So I would say, give it a try. And maintaining is ALWAYS ALWAYS a success. At least you are not going up.
The destiny of nations depends on the manner in which they feed themselves. Jean-Anthelme Brillat-Savarin

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:14 pm

noni wrote:Dee, Please give No S a try. Learning sanity eating alone is worth it!


I am going to do it! Today is my first day.

Joasia, thanks for sharing your success. It gives me hope and I really need that right now.

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Blithe Morning
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Post by Blithe Morning » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:56 pm

Would it be bad to accept it?

I think the idea is to disregard it completely. From the behaviors you described above (hours long bingeing, fixation on food, etc) your weight will do what it needs to do if you can build those healthy habits.

Habit first, weight second.

Nicest of the Damned
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:29 am

You can certainly do No S without weighing yourself, or having a goal weight in mind. Just try to get to habits you can live with long-term (this isn't the kind of diet you go on until you reach a goal weight and then go off), and let the numbers on the scale fall where they may. I've been doing this, and I'm down at least 40 lbs.

If your status quo was gaining weight, then staying the same weight will most certainly be an improvement on that. Always compare your progress to where you were before, not to some Platonic ideal that you've never been able to reach.

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Christine
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Post by Christine » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:20 pm

Dee2013, I'm in the same spot as you. Older and taller, but still feeling sooo tired of being like this and tired of yo-yo-ing and tired of obsessing. But really hating myself for lack of discipline. I hope you're not doing that! Please, if you're going to do this, keep posting here with your status. I feel for ya!

P.S.
oolala53 wrote:(My biggest problem is accepting how small my appetite is.)
My biggest problem is how big my appetite is compared to how small an amount of food I need! :?

LOTS of wise answers here though. Thank You!
I'm a Mac

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:55 pm

Blithe, Nicest, Christine, thank you for chiming in. I am going to give No S a try. Being frustrated with past experiences is a great motivator. Yesterday was day one. It didn't go well at all. Today, I am hoping for a better outcome. So far it has been good.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:40 pm

Dee, although cold turkey is often recommended, and it is better, if you can do it, even "fasting" from one meal to the next is a small success, too. See if you can think of it as just getting through the hours until the next meal. I had many days that got me through. Still does, sometimes.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:50 am

oolala53 wrote:Dee, although cold turkey is often recommended, and it is better, if you can do it, even "fasting" from one meal to the next is a small success, too. See if you can think of it as just getting through the hours until the next meal. I had many days that got me through. Still does, sometimes.
This is exactly what I did today. I tried not to think about the whole day and instead focused on one meal at a time. In between I kept busy and reminded myself that the next meal was just a few hours away. I had a very good day!

Nicest of the Damned
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:41 am

oolala53 wrote:If the best health possible had to be goals for all of us, we would have to be even tougher on ourselves than No S, in my opinion. I think this is a reasonable compromise for all but those who have already developed a health condition.
Even then, No S might still be a good bet, because a stricter system is not going to help you if you can't stick to it. If you are fat enough that it is causing health problems, it's a pretty good bet that you have had some trouble with sticking to a sensible eating plan. That isn't necessarily going to magically change when you hear that your weight is causing health problems and a method for losing weight. If it worked that way, there would be a lot fewer smokers around, and a lot fewer overweight and obese people. Quitting bad habits like smoking or overeating is hard.

There's also the fact that "following a healthy diet" is not an all-or-nothing thing. Thinking it is is very dangerous, because then you might reason that you can't do all the "right" things (whatever you think those are, there isn't even agreement on this), you might as well do nothing at all to control your eating. I've been there, done that, and stayed long enough to wear out the T-shirt. If you have 10 bad eating habits, and you get rid of one of them and leave the other 9 alone (and, of course, don't increase the other bad habits in compensation, as there is some temptation to do), you will benefit from that. You would benefit more if you could get rid of all 10, of course, but trying to tackle them all at once is a lot less likely to actually work.

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Dee2013
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Post by Dee2013 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:43 am

Nicest, that is a great way to view this issue. I never thought to just sit down and think about all the bad habits that I have in regards to eating and exercise. It is probably something I should do. Hopefully No S tackles most of them.

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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:42 pm

Dee2013 wrote:Nicest, that is a great way to view this issue. I never thought to just sit down and think about all the bad habits that I have in regards to eating and exercise. It is probably something I should do. Hopefully No S tackles most of them.
Just don't try to change them all at once if No S doesn't address them all. Just work on getting the three basic No S rules for N days down right now. Either your other bad habits will still be there when you've got those habits down, or they won't. If they are, you can work on them then. If they're not, well, problem solved.

You'll just need to get through the time between each meal, and the time between S days. There's never more than a few hours between meals, and you're never more than five days away from an S day. You can do this.

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Christine
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Post by Christine » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:06 pm

Dee, great to hear that you did well yesterday! Keep on keepin' on (and yes, gotta take my own advice) and we can both do this.
I'm a Mac

saracatherine
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Post by saracatherine » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:04 pm

Hi Dee - I think you are RIGHT ON with your approach. I find that the less I think about my weight, the less I actually obsess about food and dieting. Just had a yard sale last weekend and sold my scale. I am one of those people who if I AT ALL am making weight loss a goal, something in my subconscious freaks out and then all I can think about is food, resentment over what "I can't" have, fear of NOT losing, etc. No S is really the only way of eating that does not turn on the Crazy Switch for me. (Unless I let S days become 48-hour window of opportunity to eat sugar, which turns that switch back on.) I've been off and on with it, and like some others here am often either lured away by the promise of a more diet-like diet, or I think I'm solid enough with my habits that can go full Intuitive Eating, or I think I HAVE to do low-carb (I'm a type 1 diabetic, so my relationship with carbs is fraught.) Anyway, all that is just to say, every time I come back to No S I appreciate it more for how it makes me feel good and calm both mentally and physically and I can actually think about the many other aspects of living my life that are far more interesting. So yeah, I'm on the side of just do the habits and live your life. The weight issue may sort itself out, and/or in time you'll have gained some great calmness and sanity from which to think about it down the road.

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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:18 pm

I doubt you'll have to sit down and think about the other habits. As you implement No S, they will rear their heads. No S is a great lens, and a great structure to use to justify ignoring those other urges as well as you can. (Man, I'm throwing around metaphors like a sports writer!) For a few months at least, as well as you can, when you feel the urges to do something besides eat your three meals, realize whatever rationale is coming to mind to obey that urge is not good enough to outweigh the validity of your three no-sweets moderate meals on weekdays and the permission for more flexibility on weekends- as needed.

Examples:
"But this bite won't hurt." Do I want to keep up the habit of random bites that often lead to more food or at least to ruining my appetite, or cultivate the habit of nice, full, delicious meals?"

"But fruit for a snack is healthy!" Yes, but it will be healthy at my meal, too, and eating more often doesn't usually lead to less food overall IN THE LONG RUN.

"But this is too hard!" Is it? On any one day, we're talking about going a few hours at a time without eating. Millions of people in France and Italy do it every day and don't really consider an option. Why should they? They eat delicious food at every meal and enjoy their thoughts about it the rest of the time! And they have the lowest BMI's in Europe.

Etc.

And then fill up on life, sacred and profane, fun and mundane, until the next meal. Repeat enough to rack up a few hundred "fasting" gaps between meals. Then evaluate.

Or skip the debate and go straight back to life between meals. Habit will establish itself.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Nicest of the Damned
Posts: 719
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Post by Nicest of the Damned » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:26 am

I want to emphasize just how bad it is to think of "healthy eating" as an all-or-nothing thing. When I was in eighth grade, back in the 80's, we had a home economics unit on healthy living. I tried keeping a food journal. I failed miserably and ended up writing it the night before it was due, as best as I could remember (I did get away with this). I realized that keeping a food diary was not something I was organized enough to do.

But keeping a food diary is one of the things you're encouraged to do as part of "healthy eating". I figured if I couldn't do that, why bother with a diet, since I would just fail. I did this pretty much from then until I found No S in 2010. I ate too much for 20 years, more than half of my life, because I thought I couldn't eat healthy, because I couldn't do one thing that was required.

Is it possible that I would find some lurking bad habit if I did manage to keep a food diary? Yes. Am I better off than I was before No S, even though I don't keep a food diary? Well, I'm at least 50 pounds lighter, that's got to count for something.

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