Getting back on track: I need some serious help

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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Anoulie
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Getting back on track: I need some serious help

Post by Anoulie » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:53 pm

Hello everyone,

I'm generally a pretty disciplined person. I keep my room clean and neat, don't drink, don't spend too much money on things I don't need, I'm a vegetarian, only drink water and go running 4 or 5 times a week... but I can't seem to stick to No S no matter what I do!
I've had so many false starts this past semester... I've now spent more time struggling with No S than actually following it. I'm now heavier than I was when I first started No S in September 2009 (127 lb vs 121), although I've lost a little compared to my all-time high of ~ 135 lb. When I first started, I didn't fail a single time for about 9 months, until my aunt bought me an ice cream cone without knowing I was on No-S. I ate it. Turns out I really can't stand FAILURE, so whenever I failed, I added mods to justify that... After all this tweaking (in December 2010), I fell off the wagon big time, especially because of the approaching finals and the stress that came with them. I gained about 10 lb during this time. So I went from my feel-good weight of 110 lb up to 120. After finals, I left to volunteer in Bulgaria, which was also stressful, and gained another 10 lb.
When I came back to Germany and started uni, I thought I could do it this time, with the different, independent living situation and all... but no. I didn't gain any more weight, but lost very little -- although, honestly, this isn't about the weight anymore. It's about stressing out about food and calories and weight and stress and the way I deal with it (which, currently, is by avoiding the issue and eating instead, then stressing out about eating, etc. etc.). I've tried to go back to the very basics, to a kind of Intuitive Eating where I was allowed Ss whenever a social occasion or the real need for a sweet came up, without S days... but I can't. I've lost my natural sense of eating without this structure. The only options I now know are Failure, S Day, Success. Successes used to be the norm for me, and they weren't even hard, just natural. Now I fail once, enter the What the Hell Mode, and all is lost. I don't know what to do. Please help me.
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wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:27 pm

I have a feeling that what I'm going to suggest won't be helpful because it's too simplistic: Take success and failure out of the equation and concentrate on establishing the habits without any mods at all. Concentrate on one meal at a time and one day at a time. If you slip up, acknowledge it and move on. Forget about calories.

If you use habitcal I would suggest not using it. I found it made this too much of a "diet" and made me concentrate on success and failure rather than habit building.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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Anoulie
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Post by Anoulie » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:19 pm

The thing is I haven't done mods for two years (sh*it... two years already) and it hasn't really made a difference. I can't just move on after a failure... that's my biggest problem. If you look at my HabitCal, you'll find clusters of red days, hardly ever individual ones. And yeah, I should probably stop using it. Maybe just make a small note in my planner instead.
There's only us, there's only this
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way,
No day but today.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:53 pm

Anoulie wrote: If you look at my HabitCal, you'll find clusters of red days, hardly ever individual ones. And yeah, I should probably stop using it. Maybe just make a small note in my planner instead.
Why make notes of mistakes at all? Do you need the reminder? Seems like you're beating yourself up enough.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:25 am

I have to agree with wosnos;

Stop Tracking your days.
Stop thinking in terms of success and failure.
Work 1 meal at a time. Once that is done (no matter what ended up on the plate) close the issue and move on.
If you snack between meals, acknowledge it and have the next meal as if nothing happened.

Once you get the habit down pat, I am sure you will be suprised to see that your obsessions with failure & food have stopped.

(((((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))) - You can do this!!!
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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ZippaDee
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Post by ZippaDee » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:54 am

Anoulie, I think you are getting some great advice here!

Wosnes said:
If you use habitcal I would suggest not using it. I found it made this too much of a "diet" and made me concentrate on success and failure rather than habit building.
I am having an aha moment with this statement. I have an issue with this as well! Going to think on this some more.....
"Rivers know this: There is no hurry. We shall get there some day." ~Winnie the Pooh ~

A Flower does not think of competing with the flower next to it. It just blooms!

Diets Don't Work.

leafy_greens
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Post by leafy_greens » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:46 pm

MerryKat wrote:If you snack between meals, acknowledge it and have the next meal as if nothing happened.
This is the hardest thing to do of all, IMO.

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Blithe Morning
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Post by Blithe Morning » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:08 am

It's ok to fail. Really. Perfection is overrated. You just want the failures (or non-compliance) to be the exception and not the rule.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:19 am

Blithe Morning wrote:Perfection is overrated.
So true!
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:27 am

Leafy_greens - I agree! It is terribly hard to mentally get to a point where you can mess up and just accept it and move on and not use it for an excuse to dive deeper into the binge. I have been following No S on and off for nearly 8 years and when I focus on the habits not the content of the plate I definitely find it easier. That said it has taken most of the 8 years to mentally be able to mess up and just move on.

Blithe Morning & Wosnes - Yip!!! Perfection is not for mere mortals like us. However it is really hard not to let perfectionism ruin a great effort.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

Bssh
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Post by Bssh » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:03 pm

I 100% agree with wosnes. Stop recording. It can make some think too much about "diet" and food when not actually eating.
Start BMI 36, current BMI 19, goal BMI 19.
Losing by combining intermittent fasting with NoS.

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:42 pm

MerryKat wrote: Blithe Morning & Wosnes - Yip!!! Perfection is not for mere mortals like us. However it is really hard not to let perfectionism ruin a great effort.
I don't think I have the perfectionist gene. I do get frustrated sometimes when I can't do something the way I want to do it. This is usually when following the directions to put something together or mastering a stitch in knitting. I'm definitely a member of the "good enough" club.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

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MerryKat
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Post by MerryKat » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:50 am

wosnos - I learning to join the good enough club as perfectionism leads to not doing things because in your head you can't do them well enough or all at once! Also one slip causes total give in with perfectionism.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:27 pm

Anoulie, I think you see that this is not about weight loss anymore. This is about gaining peace with food. I believe Vanilla is your best bet.

What was happening on your S days, BTW?

A record-keeping mod that I thought at one point I might use (but didn't, as I've never used habitcal consistently) was to have two: one for Vanilla and one for small slips. That one can be green with just one or two small slips. This helps give an incentive not to succumb to WTH. Another member recently posted that she is doing just that.

Keep reminding yourself the misery you're in by eating randomly and keep reminding yourself of the wisdom and fairness of eating three times a day most days of the week. Whole cultures do this without feeling deprived and with handling their stresses.

In terms of using stress as a reason to overeat, reframe it: eating three moderate meals is an excellent way to deal with stress. Eating when stressed doesn't solve the stressful problem and creates a new one. It may not even be possible to solve the problem of the stressful situation in the moment. Face it down! It can be hard to see in the moment (diagnosed with anxiety here talkin') but the situation is usually less dire than it looks. Our bodies react as if it's life or death, but that's an illusion. Tolerate the anxious feelings! In fact, if you examine the sensations of the feelings, without letting your mind run away with stressful thoughts, you'll see they are not that bad AND they tend to dissipate when you don't keep feeding them.

Make a list of the reasons you want to eat more sanely and read it several times a day for a few months. Do it! You'll be surprised how often those reasons pop into your mind at moments of temptation.

Keep the vision of yourself as a person relatively peaceful with food and give yourself at least a year to get more content with your progress.

I think you're lucky to be trying to do this and not some diet! You've got a fighting chance here.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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la_loser
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Ditto what the others have said!

Post by la_loser » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:08 pm

Anoulie,

I can certainly identify with a lot of what you have said. I just posted a rather lengthy but thorough thread last week which addresses a little mod I have made like others have suggested. I am keeping two Habitcals-one is Vanilla No S-I call my Strictly Speaking and the other is One_S_or_Less. I have found the only "extra S" I've had to acknowledge is the occasional dessert. I'm having no issues with snacks or seconds-which is an extraordinary accomplishment for me. I added to that post today to say that I'm hoping to give up even recording anything after a while because being tied to keeping that record is tough for me. . . BUT until I am positive, I've got this under real control, I will keep on. http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9443

It's like giving myself permission for one little slip per day (IF I decide to use it) has been very freeing. OR--just chuck the whole idea of writing any of it down and don't feel guilty about it.

Don't make this harder than it has to be. You are young and are fortunate that you can take hold of all of this and have it so under control during your twenties (I'm just guessing your age from what you said about university, etc.) that you will be able to march confidently into your 30's and beyond without all that food issue baggage that many of us carried around for years before discovering this simple but effective method of taking control of ourselves!

Also, I noticed on your check-in that you said you "allowed' yourself some OJ between meals. It's important to remember that beverages are not considered a snack-well, maybe a milkshake would be, but certainly a glass of juice or milk or even a carbonated drink (even with sugar-Reinhard discourages diet drinks) is completely allowed. Obviously, drinking a half-gallon of OJ might not be a good idea but it's a great idea if you're needing that "something" to tide you over. Either Wosnes or Oolala (can't remember which) has a mocha or milky coffee often. That really works for me too.

About your saying on your check-in how much water you've been drinking. . .
"Drank waaay too much water (like a gallon and a half, that is 6 liters). I think I'll try forcing myself to drink less the next week or so, and if I'm still feeling really thirsty all the time, I'll go see a doctor." I know that "they" are even saying these days that the 8 glasses a day is not necessarily the requirement anymore so 192 oz. seems excessive perhaps. Excessive thirst can be a warning sign for type 2 diabetes so that check-in with your doctor might not be a bad idea. You certainly wouldn't want to miss knowing that.

Take care and keep on posting. We've got your back!
LA Loser. . . well on my way to becoming an LA Winner. :lol:

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Post by TurboGirl » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:58 pm

I'm a total perfectionist and I do this too. When I make a plan, one little slip-up will derail me.

So what I do to counter that response is to try to have a "perfect slip up" where I get right back on track and don't let the slip up spiral into a binge In a way, it's harder to slip up and then get back on track than to not slip up in the first place... so it's a cause for a pat on the back, I think.

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Post by oolala53 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:38 am

Perfect slip up. That is SWEET!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Anoulie
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Re: Ditto what the others have said!

Post by Anoulie » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:53 pm

LA_Loser wrote:Don't make this harder than it has to be. You are young and are fortunate that you can take hold of all of this and have it so under control during your twenties (I'm just guessing your age from what you said about university, etc.) that you will be able to march confidently into your 30's and beyond without all that food issue baggage that many of us carried around for years before discovering this simple but effective method of taking control of ourselves!
After eating a bunch of chocolate due to finals and the associated stress (yes, I'm 20) on Tuesday, I got back on track pretty well on Wednesday. This morning, however, I got frustrated studying again and ate a bunch of chocolate again.
Screw this. I'm so frustrated with it all. I've spent more time struggling with No S than actually following it sanely (two years vs. nine months). I also weigh almost 10 lb more than when I started No S.
You say I won't have to carry all this food-related baggage around thanks to No S -- thing is, I didn't have all these food issues before I started No S. What the hell. I feel like I'll never actually get the habit down again. [insert curse words here] It'll just be a constant struggle, my weight slowly creeping up until I'm officially in the "obese" range, getting type 2 Diabetes and all (I'm in a risk group for that due to genetics).

I want some more chocolate.
There's only us, there's only this
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way,
No day but today.

leafy_greens
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Re: Ditto what the others have said!

Post by leafy_greens » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:56 pm

Anoulie wrote:After eating a bunch of chocolate due to finals and the associated stress (yes, I'm 20) on Tuesday, I got back on track pretty well on Wednesday. This morning, however, I got frustrated studying again and ate a bunch of chocolate again.
Screw this. I'm so frustrated with it all. I've spent more time struggling with No S than actually following it sanely (two years vs. nine months). I also weigh almost 10 lb more than when I started No S.
You say I won't have to carry all this food-related baggage around thanks to No S -- thing is, I didn't have all these food issues before I started No S. What the hell. I feel like I'll never actually get the habit down again. [insert curse words here] It'll just be a constant struggle, my weight slowly creeping up until I'm officially in the "obese" range, getting type 2 Diabetes and all (I'm in a risk group for that due to genetics).

I want some more chocolate.
I feel the same way (hopeless about my food issues)! It's a constant struggle. But No S is the best eating method there is. I had food issues before No S and still have them. But at least I have found a way to deal with it (WHEN I can follow the plan correctly.) Sometimes I don't know if it's more frustrating to follow the plan or to give in to chocolate.
"No S IS hard... It just turns out that everything else is harder." -oolala53

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Post by oolala53 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:29 pm

Anoulie, where are you?
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Anoulie
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Post by Anoulie » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:49 pm

Ugh. Not in a better place.

I visited some friends in the US in August, which had me not doing No S for three weeks at a time -- but in a good way. I didn't worry about food whatsoever, didn't stress-eat, didn't eat so my weekends would be "worth it", but didn't freak out over a piece of candy on Wednesday, either.
As soon as I got back my dorm room and was all by myself again, I got back into No S mode, had two failures (Sep 12 and 17), plus two S-ish occasions (dessert on my dad's birthday, plus I had breakfast twice on the first day of my internship because I didn't know it would be provided there). Not too bad, but of course I panicked and decided to change my routine and chuck S days altogether, but allow some snacking throughout the week (when someone offered me something or whatever). Weightwise, that wasn't such a bad idea, I suppose (haven't weighed myself though), but all I was thinking about was food and weight loss and freakin' calories and I hated that. So today, I decided I'd go back to No S on Monday (meaning this weekend would be N days with a snack or two overall). Not too bad, huh. Except now I just bought a box of cookies and ate most of them until I got nauseous. Great job, me.

I really need to break this stupid cycle of compliance/feeling good about myself and failure/doubting everything. I've been doing this for almost three freaking years now. My weight is still at 128ish, so that's not too bad, but the whole thing is driving me crazy. I'd accept not losing any more weight if it meant I'd have the willpower/habit to keep my N days green and my S days non-crazy.
There's only us, there's only this
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way,
No day but today.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:33 pm

Anoulie, when the pain is great enough, and it sounds like it might be, you have a chance to surrender to the process, especially with not having teh weight loss focus. I know ti sounds counterintuitve, but I think that is helpful, even though there are people in other cultures who overeat and gain weight without any guilt about it. Our cultures are so weight-focused, and there is the deep mix up with self-worth. That muddles things.

Commit to Vanilla! And try to take the pressure off S days to be different very soon. If anything, commit to choosing to eat anything on an S day only if you sincerely intend to do your utmost to enjoy every bite of it, whether hungry or not, without recrimination or self-criticism. Even though you technically are allowed to eat whatever you want, let being honest with yourself about whether you can enjoy the total experience help guide you. Under those circumstances, you could have 5 S's or none. That is different from deciding to limit yourself ahead of time. You may not succeed at this at first.

If you had been N-day compliant for a few weeks, I could see starting with your idea, but it sounds like you haven't been. Start today!

Just a suggestion.

Also, I gently ask you to consider: what would you think about and take action on in life if you had NO mental energy tied up in this? Can you honestly say if you know if you need more stimulation or more relaxation? Would you be willing to experiment with both?
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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Anoulie
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Post by Anoulie » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:27 am

It's difficult, yes, but I've already decided to stop planning every little detail in other areas of my life, so I think I can do this, too. I went to bed yesterday very exhausted (emotionally), and woke up feeling bad about those cookies I ate yesterday (mentally and physically). But then it came to me -- I don't have to worry about anything if I eat three square meals today. That's it. No tallying calories in my head, no thinking about fiber and variety and how long this is gonna make me feel satisfied, no worrying about being chubby and never getting back to < 125 lb... just three meals, just today. And then the next day. And then, suddenly, it's the weekend and I can relax the rules a little.

As for your last question: I don't think I'd DO anything differently, but I'm sure I'd be more happy/less stressed/have a generally better quality of life.

So with that mantra from above, and a little card in my wallet with reasons why I want to do No S (I wrote it yesterday), I think I can do it. Wish me luck, everyone. I won't be back here that often (after all, I don't want to think about this too much), but I'll probably check the site once in a while. Cheers!
There's only us, there's only this
Forget regret, or life is yours to miss.
No other road, no other way,
No day but today.

oolala53
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:47 pm

Sounds like you got it. Just eat your three meals and participate in the rest of your life with more attention on THOSE things, not with food and body worries in the back of your mind. THAT IS doing something different.

I'm so glad for you that you have this chance to skip decades of worrying over this issue. No S can really take you through all the stages of your life, as it has and does millions of women in the world.

And I completely understand not wanting to give this forum too much thought. Mazel tov!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

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