Just trying to get it off my chest...

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:47 pm

Several months ago I introduced a mod which worked perfectly well: instead of S days, I was having three desserts a week. I lost "vanity weight", felt great, and looked great. Then just for the sake of my own curiosity, I started counting calories. On some N days I wasn't even reaching 1300 calories, which - if I am to believe calorie need calculators - is the absolute minimum for 5'1", 110 lbs, moderately/very active 28-year-old. To maintain my weight I should be consuming 1800-1900 calories a day! So I counted, and counted, and counted some more. With three nutritious meals a day my average was usually 1600 calories - still within "weight loss" range, but I didn't want to lose weight anymore, so I figured I could add a legitimate dessert a day to fill the gaps. And yes, I'm finally maintaining, thank goodness, but I HAVE to have dessert every single day. I can't stop, the cravings are enormous. In my book, having dessert every day is not a balanced way to eat, so I've decided to cut it down by doing vanilla No S once more. And boy, how anxious I am!
Now I'm afraid I'll either gain or lose weight if I stop counting calories. My S days were always wild, and I feel I was losing the same 3 pounds over and over again. However, I think it's necessary for me to make gaps between "sweet days" longer to regain control over my excessive sugar consumption, and the most natural way to do it is to go back to vanilla.
My plan is to combine vanilla with some perfunctory calorie counting (no weighing my food, thank you very much - I just want to be sure I'm eating enough). On S days:
- no solitary snacking, ever
- desserts after lunch and dinner or on social ocassions
- don't bring any treats home before the actual S day
- protein based breakfasts with 0 sugar.

Guys, honestly - am I overthinking the whole issue?

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:09 pm

Unless you go to a medical clinic to measure your metabolic rate, you won't know it for sure. Furthermore, food calorie counts are notorious for being off.

If i were you I would eat according to whether you are satisfied, not an arbitrary calorie number.

jw · Post by jw » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:15 pm

I am new to this, so I am sure more experienced no-S-ers will provide some wisdom -- but one thing came to mind while I was reading: You can up calories in a lot of delicious, non-dessert ways if you don't want to lose more weight: cheese gratin, extra bread, heavy cream to finish your soup, I could go on . . .

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:59 pm

jw wrote:You can up calories in a lot of delicious, non-dessert ways if you don't want to lose more weight: cheese gratin, extra bread, heavy cream to finish your soup, I could go on . . .

The thing is, to reach 1800-1900 calories I had to force down all the savoury extras = displeasure, whereas desserts always went in smoothly

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:06 pm

I would beef up the content and the amount of your meals if you want to maintain. There are plenty of calorie dense, nutritional foods. Fruit, cheese, nuts, beans, bread, full fat yogurt, meat, etc. It would be easy to add 200-300 calories per day by including more of these at a meal.

Bssh · Post by **Bssh** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:47 pm

I wonder whether increasing protein with each meal might help with sugar cravings - I know I want to eat less sugar when I eat more protein. Then add in more fat to help bump up the calories...

Also, would increasing fruit help?

Dried fruits and nuts mixes are high in calories and might satiate the need to taste something sweet.

snapdragon · Post by **snapdragon** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:56 pm

It sounded like you we're perfectly happy the way you were until you started counting calories and obsessing. I would just go back to vanilla no s. enjoy yourself and if you start losing too much, then do more research.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:45 pm

I think you might be over-thinking it. Go back to what you were doing when you looked and felt great.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:18 am

You're absolutely right. I wasn't particularly comfortable doing vanilla, as I believe the concept of S days is reinforcing my "diet mentality" - I prefer having desserts evenly and predictably spread out in time. I'll be trying to drop calorie counting, but I know it's going to take some time. Thanks for the sound advice!

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:52 pm

Hey Imogen,

I've tried in the past to do something very similar. Just out of curiosity, since I am roughly the same height and age, could you give a sample menu of yours? Once I've had the baby, I'd like to get back down to that weight!

Thanks!

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:20 am

Imogen Morley wrote:You're absolutely right. I wasn't particularly comfortable doing vanilla, as I believe the concept of S days is reinforcing my "diet mentality" - I prefer having desserts evenly and predictably spread out in time. I'll be trying to drop calorie counting, but I know it's going to take some time. Thanks for the sound advice!

I wasn't comfortable with vanilla No-S, either, but it didn't have anything to do with diet mentality. Weekend S days just didn't work for me.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:02 am

1) If you've ever been overweight and then lost weight, you will need several hundred fewer calories a day to maintain than you would if you had never been overweight.

2) I have a membership from a long time ago on a bodybuilding site for women, and they say the number of calories needed to lose weight for most women is actually lower than many sites claim. There are members on that site who eat 800-1000 calories a day to lose. There are a fair number of IFers there, too.

I think this is the problem with losing vanity weight, even if it happens by accident, if it's okay to say. It makes people want to hang onto it, and they start trying to eat to manipulate the scale and stay low. I lost some this winter, and I'm back up. I started trying to eat even less, and what had been coming rather easily started being a burden; things got out of hand, the pendulum swung, and I started eating more of this, then of that, yada yada yada.

Also, I've participated for years on another site online devoted to bingers and the single thing I see over and over as a problem is their insistence on trying to eat just a little something sweet often, like every day. I really, really think that for anyone who has had a problem with sugar, it works better to have it much less often. Another site that purports to help women with cravings says that having at least 4 days sugar free at a time seems useful. No S just asks for one more day.

Though my S days were wild for well over two years, about a year ago I instituted two mods. 1) I couldn't eat cookie dough more than once every 30 days (though I've ended up not having any, I don't think, for the whole year.) 2) I can eat sweets only in the company of others, which cuts way down on them because I live and spend a fair amount of time alone. I've failed at that one only a few times, but even that has usually been mild. So, I often now have weekends on which I have no desserts or sweets at all. I always leave the option open, but, though I continue to think fondly about them, when it comes down to actually eating them, it often doesn't sound that appealing. When I'm actually hungry, I want savory foods, and when I've had my savory foods, I'm often too full to enjoy a dessert fully. I can't claim that I can take 'em or leave 'em easily, but it's not the torture it was.

However, I'm visiting a friend this weekend and I will find a time to have something I really love, such as a slice of chocolate mousse cake or the like. No more eating a 12 oz. package of Hershey's kisses. Or a pint or more of ice cream. All of which would then be followed by grazing on mostly starchy stuff. All while not hungry.

I actually still sometimes miss the initial experience of overeating sweets, and every time I think I'm just going to let myself go for it, I end up not doing it and being so glad later because I got so full from my one scoop of ice cream or whatever. (And because I don't want to trip the wire on all that.) But all those foods are so dense in calories that it can be very easy to down a lot of them fast-- and feel pretty crappy in a couple of hours. Plus not get hungry for literally 12+ hours. And I miss eating even when I'm not hungry! But only on weekends.

So, even after all this time, sweets are not carefree for me. But manageable and I'm grateful for that.

So, all that to say that at some point, you may consider not thinking you have to have dessert after lunch and dinner on S days. Remember, it's SOMETIMES. This is down the line. It doesn't have to be tomorrow.

r.jean · Post by **r.jean** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:10 pm

I am on board with those who feel that you need to worry less. The key to No S is that it helps you build healthy habits without obsessing. Being aware of what foods are healthy and making good choices as often as I can within the Vanilla No S structure is the key for me. My relationship with food has changed. I eat healthier and enjoy my food more.