shameful question

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:30 pm

Since being on No S (nine months) I have noticed that sometimes on S days I eat so much I am very uncomfortable. This used to happen when I was a little kid, before I learned to naturally moderate. Now it's back! Prior to No S I would snack and eat sweets, but never to the point of being overly full. Now it literally happens without me seeing it coming!

I realize this may sound like the stupidest question ever, but there it is. How do I know how much food to eat! How do I know when I'm full?

(That's another question. Right now I stop when I'm done, not when I'm full. I could always eat more. It's like my desire for food "masks" my physical fullness sensations. I definitely know when I'm really, honestly, physically hungry now. Got that down. And I'm working on eating more slowly. But I definitely have trouble with what is enough.

And yes, I realize my screen name is clearly misleading! (I picked it because I really enjoyed "consolidating' my food into three meals at the beginning. Having more at a meal really felt good at first, and I felt solidly satisfied. Now that I've switched to healthier fare, I don't have the same feeling.)

I think it's possible I don't wait until I"m hungry enough, because in the beginning that stark change from very hungry to full was quite noticeable.

Just curious if anyone has thoughts.

noni · Post by **noni** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:18 pm

Before No S, I also didn't feel uncomfortable most days altho' eating and snacking a lot. My stomach got used to the overeating, but when I curb it now M-F, eating heavy on the S days almost painfully stretches my stomach and by Monday morning I feel like I have a hangover and I don't even drink. It's all the sweets from the weekend that I'm not used to. And I know when I've overeaten because basically, I'm grazing all day, eating more than one dessert (three anyone?) with a meal and my stomach is not happy. I really do pay the price with a lousy-feeling Monday.

I'm striving for less or no snacking between meals and less desserts on S days. A couple of desserts a day is okay for me. This just feels right all around. I've lately have had a few of these sensible weekends and it's been over 15 months on No S. I think we need to be patient with the spillover of N days into S days.

vmsurbat · Post by **vmsurbat** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:23 pm

This same thing happened to me too! Not right away, but after following NoS for awhile, my *body* preferred Nday eating habits, but my *mind* still wanted Sday go-for-broke habits. Thus I ended up with the 11PM Sunday night belly ache (which often snuck up on me--I wouldn't feel too full after Sunday dinner, but by bedtime....ouch!)

For me, this was the turning point where my Nday habits started to spill over onto S day habits...so I think you are at a great place!
I want to encourage you, that you can learn to not overeat on S days.

There are several things that helped me over those months and years:

1. I realized that I, personally, do not particularly enjoy snacking, so even though hubby and friends might, I consciously choose not to snack most S days although I can (and very occasionally do) .

2. I also realized that I like desserts and seconds, so I tried to make it a bit of a game to get them (dessert/seconds) without uncomfortable consequences, such as having a half-portion of dessert Sunday night, or taking a little less dinner on my plate the first time, so I could have the delight of taking seconds (without actually eating too much).

My little personal game did help---I never made it a "mod" but playing the "game" helped me to be more aware of my dessert/serving sizes and to realize that I got just as much satisfaction (and really more if it wasn't followed by an evening bloat/ache) out of my smaller serving as a larger serving.

Also, along with that *over time*, what appeals to me as dessert has really changed. I am more than satisfied now with much smaller portions and less sweet, less decadent desserts.

In the beginning, every weekend meal had a sweet treat of some kind, the kind you find in dessert cookbooks. Now, I prefer fruit-based treats--not because they are "good for me" but because I honestly think they finish our meals off in a luscious, satisfying way (eg. this weekend's desserts were 1. fresh grapes and cantaloupe from the garden with a side of almonds, plain mixed with a few chocolate-covered ones, and 2. fresh figs, accompanied by a wedge of blue cheese, scattering of toasted walnuts, and topped with a thin drizzle of honey. Mmmmm.) And I was a hard-core dessert baker and lover (cakes! cookies! cheesecakes! pies! cobblers!) every weekend.... Now those kinds of desserts are for birthdays and really special S days.... (well, except for cookies. Have to be honest here!)

All that to say--take time in evaluating what you really want out of your S days, then take a teensy step in that direction, see if you still enjoyed (or even better enjoyed) your S day, and repeat. Little by little, bit by bit, you'll be learning and practicing S day habits that you love and let you feel good.

Best wishes for continued success,

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:18 pm

I think you mean you can't tell how much to eat until it's too late.

It took me over two years before I was able to moderate S days. I kept waiting for the desire to go away, even though I felt rotten later, but it actully didn't. I would think of a food and go eat it as soon as the full feeling subsided at all. I got tired enough finally to force myself to stop permasnacking or gorging at times on sweets and wait until I actually got hungry for meals. I would eat breakfast, break down and have snacks. then not eat again until 10 p.m. or even the next day because I didn''t get hungry. I wrote a lot of posts about how much I resented feeling the desire to eat even without hunger, how much I wished I had more hunger- I wish that sometimes now- how discouraged I was, and how I didn't see how anything would change, but fatigue is a decent motivator! Esp. with the contrast of N days. And, I actually like to eat more often, so I was able to choose more reasonable amounts. I could still have eaten more at the time- still can, with sweets- but I wouldn't. I told myself I could always have more later when I was hungry. It's finally smoothing out.

Also, I knew that about a fist's volume is portion enough of most dense foods, though I definitely often ate more. But I kept working towards that. And though I was usually a slow eater of meals, I ate junk fast. I've forced that one, too. It sounds excruciating, but it's not now!

Lastly, I swore off eating any sweets unless I was in the company of others. I'm not married and there are few people I would have the nerve anymore to eat and eat and eat around. But I had to be desperate to do it. Amazingly , it was easier than I thought, but then again, I was ready. This means that whole weekends go by without my eating sweets. But I had 48 years of eating plenty of them to look back on. I've had my quota! And I still have them sometimes, but I don't feel deprived when I don't. I never want to have to go through this process again.

This doesn't mean I don't sometimes think with nostalgia and even a bit of longing for a package of cookie dough and half a Costco cake on an S day, but it's more like wishing I could experience the fun of being pushed on a swing by my dad when I was a kid. I don't really expect it.

So, I guess I'm saying when you REALLY REALLY get tired of it, you'll start realizing that you have to cut your portions and stop long before you feel full.

Don't feel too bad. I have thin friends who have gained weight in recent years and are mystified about how to know when and how much to cut their intake. Their whole lives, they just ate until they didn't want to anymore and never gained weight. Now they are gaining, so they are likely getting too full, but don't know how to gauge it, either. You'll have to eyeball it and experiment.

This is one of the reasons the regain rate is so high, I think. People don't understand that for most people, it takes a few years to retrain the appetite. They have to go through the process. I think the body builds up resistances that assert themselves, but can be defeated if the peaks and valleys are tolerated. It's like pulling in a fish. Not linear.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:14 am

What do you mean by healthier fare? Are you eating enough fat, protein and even carbs to make you feel satiated?

emmay · Post by **emmay** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:24 am

I have experienced something similar. After many successful months on No S I started overeating to the point of discomfort at some meals, particularly dinner. I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe my emotional overeating, previously in the form of repeated snacking/sweets, was redirected towards concentrated overeating at meals. Maybe it was anxiety about being hungry later and only having limited opportunities to eat. Whatever the reason, it was distressing and discouraging. Lately I have failed No S more often than not but the overeating at meals has subsided. I am getting back to compliant N days and keeping an eye on my meal time behaviour to make sure the overeating doesn't come back.
For me there is always a point during a meal when I recognise that I have physically had enough but sometimes there is still a very strong desire to keep eating. Serving a moderate portion and sticking to the no-seconds rule very strictly helps. For S-days, keeping to no seconds might help.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:31 am

I eat till it hurts sometimes too. I have a "clear your plate" issue, and I think something in me reacts against restriction, even the artful restriction of No S. Eating sometimes feels like an addictive process - subterranean and self-deceptive - or witnessing without being able to control what I'm doing. All very unsettling.

One thing I do note - if I eat "good" food - stuff that doesn't deliver a quick boost to my blood sugar - I may have appetite propelling me to eat even after my stomach is full. I think that's why a sweet of some sort at the end of a meal seems required to feel I am happy to stop eating.

Shame around this is an additional burden. None of us want to be overweight or overeating, or to be seen and criticised for doing it, yet here we are. I face a niggling doubt here - "If I let go of disliking myself for being so fat, would I eat even more?" And so far I haven't let go of my self-disapproval.

jw · Post by jw » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:56 am

I thought that would go away in time . . . I am in my third month and I have had a few moderate weekends, but many more of the kind you describe, Finallyfull. It's a relief when Monday comes -- I never feel overfull on N days. I have noticed that high fiber foods, healthy though they may be, can sneak up on you -- add in some sweets and salty snacks and it is the recipe for a miserable night! As you can see, you're not alone!

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:51 pm

Wow, thanks for all the great "food for thought". I think the bottom line is, keep up with No S, and slowly work it out. Sounds about right. I love the idea of the "game" of figuring it out, rather than declaring a mod. I suppose I can also look at it as a true indicator that my N days are successful, because the contrast is becoming greater. (red days notwithstanding!)

Blithe - healthier fare means I make sure to have half freggies on my plates, but I also have carbs and protein at every meal. I eat enough, and I eat a well rounded meal. It's just that when I started out it was like 100% dense food, and that packs a filling punch!

I love this discussion board.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:04 pm

Graham, it seems counterintuitive, but the experience of many former compulsive eaters, who usually have concurrent intense body dissatisfaction, is that they do not eat more in the long run when they work on body acceptance. Just as with freeing the restrictions on No S may inspire overeating at first, those who stick with it find their appetite decreases.

Shaming regarding body size is closely correlated with later weight gain, not loss.

I didn't think I looked great when I started, but I didn't think I looked terrible even though I was in the low obese range. I tried to dress as well as I could and hold my head high. I was more disturbed by my eating and was willing to do what it took to eat more in tune with hunger and satiety. That often means letting go of weight loss. But both have happened.

Bssh · Post by **Bssh** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:33 am

It's taken me 19 months of eating less and losing weight to finally get to the stage where my stomach "tells" me when it's actually full. It's physically shrunk in size and if I stretch it beyond its limits I feel painfully bloated. I physically can no longer overeat these days and that has regulated my S days.